TooSoon,

Agreed.

I do believe in the power/right to change and if harsh posts help, then let them rip.

Weaver:

She is not changing, she is right back to the affair that she enjoys, but it is at the expense of the BS and the marriage. She is an evil woman, nothing better and nothing less.

TooSoon

The phone calls need to end IMMEDIATELY. not soon. If you care for anyone other than yourself you will cease to accept his phone calls now and forever, and you will NEVER, under ANY circumstances call him again. Continued contact can and will do much more harm than you can possibly begin to understand.

LTM, are you still reading here? There is so much of your
story you haven't told us. Like how old are you?
Why would you give up your life, your hope for a husband,
home and children to be the mistress to a married man?

It is NOT TOO LATE to take that fork in the road that leads
you away from him and into a good pure FORGIVEN life. You mentioned having met someone. Now is the time to leave that married man in the dust. Don't let him beg you back into his life. LET HIM GO. And YOU GO away from him; begin your life FRESH with this new friend, without MM a part of it.

16 years is a lot of years, LTM.

Charles Kuralt that had the CBS on the road series, had a 29 year affair with his mistress so at least you can STOP NOW. Don't let it be another week or another month and turn into 29 years!

Do you realize how good you will feel to be the one to stop this affair, to stop the calls and emails? (I am assuming that you do not meet him anymore.) You will feel an inner peace to no longer be a wedge in their marriage.
You will feel a freedom you haven't felt since before the affair began.

If you keep posting here, we can learn a lot from you.
The WHYS of affairs with MM.

Once I read on this forum that affairs can't happen if just one of the two people say "NO". That is good worthwhile advice.

Please let us know how you are doing. What decisions you are making with your life. Good Luck making right choices from now on.

P.S. Edited to say that I just read your first post again.
You asked us 'wives' if you should call the OM's wife to tell her that her husband and you have been having phone conversations again to 'catch up'. My answer (opinion) is NO, just STOP the phone conversations. NO MORE. You went a year with no contact, go back to NO CONTACT.

Don't call him. Don't call her. Block his phone number or change yours. Block his e-mail or change yours.

Don't go there again.

Let him work his own stuff out.

And move on with working out your own.

Well, LTM...my advice to you is to completely move on. And that means no contact at all. It just isn't worth the pain it causes everyone involved.

I am a former OW and I very much regret my poor choices. I have taken responsibility for my actions and made a vow to myself to learn from this experience. The key to moving forward is this...get yourself out of his life completely...do not give him an option...he will come back if you allow it. Accept responsibility for your part in this (no justification)...and then tell yourself you deserve more...there is some void in your life that allowed you to stay in this relationship...figure out what it is and fix it.

I used the justification that if it wasn't me it would be someone else...and that was true...but it was you. Think of how this affected your life, the lies...the loneliness...it is not worth it.

It is easy to blame the OW as the H is someone that is loved. I understand that. But, it is not the reality that OW are evil people looking to destroy marriages (not all at least). I, for one, am human...and I made a very poor choice that I have paid for dearly.

So do you have Autonomy and Intimacy issues? Is it safer to be with a married man so you don't have to confront and deal with your fears of being intimate? Both of you have a safety factor that helps you not get too close...this little detail called "marriage". Neither of you have to get too close, be too vulnerable, put it all on the line, because you have the built in "distancer" of his marriage.

Instead of individually working on autotomy and intimacy issues, you take the easy way out and have an affair. The problem then becomes outside the two of you...not a need for deep, painful, individual work. If you want to be single don't hide behind someone's marital status. Stand up as a single woman, date single men or don't date, and make clear your desire to remain single.




We broke contact...sorta. Sorta doesn't classify as "doing". People in denial often tell themselves and others half-truths so as to not look so bad. Own and speak the truth, the whole truth! Otherwise, just stand up, speak up, and say........ "This is what I did. It's none of your business. You're not my judge. I don't want to change my behaviors and I'm not going to. What happens between the WS and the BS isn't my problem. This is about me and my wants and needs."

By the way, it's too bad that someone you trusted had the nerve to tell the BS about your relationship. You and the WS can betray the trust of the marriage, but how dare someone else violate your trust!





What did it matter to you? It wasn't your business to tell him what to do related to his marriage. Again, if you were really worried about "right" behavior, you would have stepped out. Did telling him to do the right thing, somehow absolve you from your choice to continue wrong behavior?



Ok, so the BS spouse couldn't meet all his needs. Having an affair is one way to deal with this concern. What about them having an "open marriage", where it was acknowledged and agreed upon openly/honestly? How about the WS hitting some counseling a whole lot earlier since he clearly recognized that he didn't intend to divorce his wife? 16 years is a long time to live with such inconsistency between values and behaviors. Uh.....how about divorce? If you don't want to honor your marital vows, and your partner wants you to, than step up to the plate and do the honorable thing. She can either learn to meet the WS's needs or choose to step out.





So "catching up" has gone on 6 plus weeks. Just like "I'm going to stop the calls soon."? And if you know that it's not possible to be "Just Friends", why are you being dishonest with him...by your actions....and continuing to have contact as a friend?



Ok, he didn't offer to become involved again. So what the heck happened? How did you go from that position...to ongoing contact? Just like with alcoholics..there's a few details missing, e.g. "A" + ?????? = "C". Alcoholic: "Well, I started to have cravings for a drink and the next thing I knew I was sitting at a bar drinking a beer." Several choices and steps had to have occurred to get from one point to the other. It didn't just happen.

Another question. You said you were dating someone. Why are you finding the need to get your support from the WS? Can't your current guy meet all your needs? I'd like to encourage you to go to the man in your life to share your joys, sorrows, concerns, etc.




How kind of you to direct the WS's morals and correct behaviors! It's none of your business! If it doesn't bother him, why should you care? If you really cared about the BS, you wouldn't continue to stay in the situation..regardless of the WS's desires, behaviors, etc.

Again, what you did and what you said were two very different things. You directed him to talk about his concerns with his wife, but this was after you already gave him a woman's viewpoint. You took the psychological edge off just enough to provide some relief. This would lower his motivation to change his behaviors.




Again, why do you care how the BS feels? You wouldn't continue to contribute to a painful behavior if you were really concerned. No...you're not the married person, and you didn't initiate contact...but you continue it. That's fine, but don't try and sit on the fence expressing concerns for the BS at the same time.


I am a therapist, which I strongly suspect you are, too. Would you like me to send you some articles on intimacy-autonomy issues, denial, cognitive dissonance, ethics, radical honesty, the impact of adultry on a family, assertiveness, etc. We in the profession tend to be highly effective in deluding ourselves that we couldn't possibly make choices and do things that would knowingly hurt others. So, if we do, the next best thing is to at least be "fair" to the other person and let them know what is going on. Then one can wash their hands of the whole mess.

I think one reason you're concerned about what you should do ...why you came here...is because you are confused about the discrepancies in your morals and behaviors. Have you ever been in individual counseling? If not, I would strongly suggest it. If so, maybe it's time for a refresher. I gained the most professionally when I set my ego down and went in for individual counseling.

I have no personal investment in your behaviors or values. The fact that I have been a BS, is not your fault. You didn't participate in my marital problems. I do challenge you, however, to OWN your opinions, ethics, morals, behaviors, choices, etc. If no one else agrees with you, so what? Cognitive dissonance can do real harm to one's psyche.

You're on a challenging journey. Please, get some professional guidance for yourself.

Bumping for LTM. We hope you continue to post here.

We also are hoping you can make the right choices and get your self-respect and life back. (Are you reading messages to you such as what 'heartmending' wrote?)

COME HOME LTM.
BE THE WOMAN YOU WERE BEFORE YOU MET THIS MAN.

Wouldn't it FEEL GREAT to be FORGIVEN and once again have a clear conscience? (Or is it conscious? I am not sure how to spell it but I know what it means!)

I am digesting all your thoughtful, insightfull replies and will respond soon, I promise.

My primary question has been throughly answered so I won't contact her. Never have, never will.

I have gotten really really busy since I posted this but I plan to revisit tomorrow evening and give a more complete reply. Thank you for all your help.

One last question do I need to do a formal no contact letter (to him) or can I just fade? I have never done the big final FADE in a relationship but it might be time?

Until tomorrow evening, thank you all.

I wouldn't bother with a letter or fading. Just disappear. Change your number, and just not be available. A No Contact letter would be a form of contact.

I appreciate that you will not contact the wife, and that should especially go TRIPPLE for the husband. Out of respect for his wife and the marriage.

Good Luck, and take heart in knowing this IS the right thing to do.

LTM,

Time for you to do the right thing. Why else would you come here, to all of us who are about saving a marriage?

This has gone on so long between the two of you. It is not working, for you. Why would you settle, for so long for this? Your MM has had his cake and eat it for a very long time.

Yes, you have been part of this, and it is time for a NC letter, and if you still are feeling bad about MM wife, well, then, send it to her also. And be done.

Don't you deserve a relationship that is based on the most wonderful tools that are on this website about a GOOD, and HEALTHY relationships?

You would not be here if you did not want a healthy relationship. There are much better men that are single and HEALTHY that would be better for you than this person that you have hooked up with for so long.

You have been part of something that has been very unfair. I am glad that you are thinking about the BS after all this time.

There is hope, for you. Do the no contact letter. Get on with it. It is not your responsibility to fix anything, it is up to your MM and his WIFE. Whatever goes on with them is not your business, and never has been. I would say a big SORRY, and move on with your life.

PS. I never got a sorry after 5 years from the ow, even tho my Lovely Daughter ripped into her for being so aggressive and what she did to us all. (and this is after 5 years) My Lovely Daughter failed HS because she fell apart. And she was a straight A student before it all came down. Hope something similar has not happenend in your case.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

LTM,
Thank you for taking feedback about not contacting the BS. Thank you for choosing to follow that feedback. It's a good step towards getting your integrity back...something I do think you want in your life.

I differ from Jennifer68's opinion regarding a No Contact letter. I think that a very firm and clear boundary needs to be set. I think that "fading" will leave the WS greater opportunity to question if you might still be open to contact in the future. A "No Contact" letter doesn't guarantee that the WS won't try and contact you again. It does, however, take your relationship in a different direction. It's been made clear, in a very concrete way, that there will be no relationship, no contact of any kind...period.

I think that writing and reviewing a "No Contact" letter could also be helpful to you. It's an additional layer to assist you in following through with no contact.

Others may not agree with me. That's ok. Do what you know is right for you.

I guess the part that concerns me about a NC letter, is that it could possibly cause a relapse for the wife, if she is under the impression that NC is already in place. I'm concerned what kind of state the W is in, after all she has already been thru, since her D-day. Could she handle another blow? She's already aware of what has happened in her M. I think this should now rest between them.

I could see it, if it were only sent to the H, for his own knowledge, to never contact OW again, but then again, wouldn't that be another "behind the back" thing to the W?

I really don't know what the correct approach would be on this. It's sort of a double edged sword. LTM has agreed not to contact the W, but wouldn't a letter, still be a way of contacting the W, in a sense?

Well, I really do wish the best in this situation, whichever choice is made. Good Luck...

LTM,

Glad u got the point. Though I can't see how you could have possibly missed it. LOL!!

As for the NC letter to the WS.....wrong direction. You are the OW. He needs to NC you.

You as now hopefully a former OW or Xow, just needs to stop all communication. You don't need to send a NC letter. If he contacts you, then you can revisit the notification to his W issue. But you are best t/b in NC with the WS by your actions. No warning, no letter.

JMHO,
L.

Ok so I have read and re read your kind and thoughtful responses. Here is what I have decided. I will write a brief no contact letter to him, not her. It will be delivered to his PO box during his holiday so he recieves it when he gets back. This will give me a two week start in not talking to him and moving on. Maybe three weeks since I can easily avoid his calls in the time before they leave.
I plan to change my phone service and number next week and the old one will run out in a month so I will just leave it in a drawer to check messages of friends and contacts who are slow to learn the new number since I can't leave the new number on the message, lol.
I truly needed to hear what you all had to say so I deeply appriciate your feedback and guidance despite your own pain. Good luck in your recovery efforts and may you all move on to a place of peace and contentment. Thank you LTM

Ps for heartmending: You hit the Cognitive Dissonance squarely on the head! Good call and thank you.

Hi
I ,too, would write a short goodbye letter of sorts. Hopefully it will give you both closure and give him a clear picture that you have to say goodbye. I know how hard that is...(((LTM)))

LTM-

Do not call this man's wife. Contact from you will only cause her more pain. My FWH's OW has sent me "helpful" messages--through other people, and it makes me absolutely furious. This woman is poison in my life, and I resent the fact that she has tried to communicate with me in any way. I neither need nor want her "help."

But you are right that his wife should know that her husband has continued his contact with you. She has a right to protect her marriage, and she needs to know the truth in order to do that. I think the suggestion of writing a "no contact" letter directed to the MM--and cc'ing it to the wife--is an excellent idea. I think CarenMc's letter reads very well.

I also think it is a monumentally bad idea to accept any more calls from this man. You are right that you cannot be friends. To participate in contact with him is only nuturing a relationship that is horribly wrong.

And why would you want this relationship, anyway? It is obvious from this man's treatment of you that he has no respect for you. He has never intended to give you a complete and fulfilling relationship--he has only taken from you what he wanted to satisfy himself. Completely self-serving. You deserve a relationship with someone who will make a complete and total commitment to you. What you have with him is only a shadow. The longer you continue contact with him, the more of your life you waste. Cut him loose.

God bless,
-CSJ

LTM...

I am saying aloud, "What a THREAD!" like saying "What a country!" but with one less syllable and no russian accent.

Thank you for posting. For choosing. For answering and reading. That says so much.

What you can't see is all the good that may ripple from your daring act, but trust it is there.

You're human. Thank you for coming here and being just that.

LA