TooSoon,
I see where you are coming from and I'm beginning to agree. I draw a distinction between forgiveness and reconciliation, though.

I want to forgive. I don't resent having to,either, because I know that God has forgiven me, too. I have had the annoying habit in my life of wanting to be and trying very hard to be good and RIGHT. It's been hard to process these last few months the part I played in all of this. Parts that reveal, alas, that one can try very hard to be perfect and fail utterly. I have confessed my wrongs and asked forgiveness, too.. That part of all this I truly am thankful for. God really has been true to His promise to love me enough to require me to be better than I want to be! Whew-

Two out of the four counselors I have seen since last July have literally gotten in my face and said 'accept the possiblity that this marriage might not make it. Your H has big problems that will only begin to go away with lots of counseling." If you pair my H's messy self up with me, a woman of formerly miserable self-esteem, emotionally abused and neglected, and among other things, frustrated perfectionist...well, only God is capable of righting this ship.

Also, you wrote:

"He knows the pain and suffering caused by connecting with someone else, yet he did it again to you. The first with your GF and now his business partner. "

This is the fact that is currently making time stand still. This reality makes it difficult for me to even funciton on the most basic level. I find myself thinking in circles constantly..."Should I go to the grocery store and start supper or workout? How can I be thinking about all this when HE DID IT AGAIN? Should I make supper for the kids and for him? For the sake of the kids? Is it good or bad for them for me to sit here at supper not knowing if the marriage would, could, should make it?"

I'm tired of this, everyone.

Some part of me is replaying this fact (that he is a repeat offender) because I know it is significant. I know he could cheat 20 more times and the issue would be less about forgiveness (not holding his "sins" against him) and more ,for me, about how wise it is for me to continue in a relationship with someone for whom this kind of betrayal is so easily accomplished. And could last so long! The first one was a year, the second a year and a half!

Daisy,
My WH is sorry now in so many ways like never before, but YES he didn't want the OWH to know. I believe he didn't want him to know because he didnt' want the precious OW's family to be hurt. Imagine! Also, like the first A, he prefers to sweep things under the rug and not try to clean up his mess.

It might interest you to know also, Daisy, that when both A's were discovered initially, my H's mom let me know in her kind way that if I was just a better whatever he wouldn't have strayed. We have spent every holiday with these people for 13 years. Their son ruins my life with infidelity and I AM BLAMED! Here's the fun part. My H doesnt' see why I have a problem that his brother and sister and their spouses are probably unaware of the A's. He said "I think they know that something happened". Once again, it's supposed to be my job to keep his secrets so others won't get hurt.

Oak,

You got so much resentment. I don't blame you, just pointing out the obvious, I guess.

Part of recovery is for honesty. I don't see why you need to keep HIS secrets for him. I wonder what others think here regarding exposure to the family......

Please, do not think HIS A is your fault. IT IS NOT. YOUR MIL is in the FOG on this one. She wants to rationalize it because he is her son. We see this all the time. It is desrespectful to you. The fact is that if your WH was comited to recovery he would tell his family what he did and HE would defend YOU to his mother, because he would know that the A itself was HIS fault! Sheesh.....

I hurt for you Oak. I felt the pain in your posts......

No matter what you decide in your M, do stay here and share your thoughts. It is a good place for personal recovery as well, we don't all recover our marriages, yet we grow! Even if you decide to leave your M, it is good to stay here and learn about R/M and grow.

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Daisy,

You are right, I am filled with resentment most days. I have read everything I can get my hands on about dealing with it. Some days I do better. Most days, I think if I could just horsewhip my H and the two OW and walk away, I could do away with this bitter disease.

Of course, the Bible always has the best answer, like the verse from Job that says "to worry yourself to death with resentment would be a senseless thing to do". Not much about this marriage makes any sense, I have to admit.

The resentment is repulsive to me so I can only imagine how ugly it must seem to others.

Daisy,

may I also add that after all these years of deception, that I am afraid to let go of the resentment because it is the only thing at the moment that I recognize as authentically mine. I hope you and others maybe know what I mean by that.

***This is the fact that is currently making time stand still. This reality makes it difficult for me to even funciton on the most basic level. I find myself thinking in circles constantly..."Should I go to the grocery store and start supper or workout? How can I be thinking about all this when HE DID IT AGAIN? Should I make supper for the kids and for him? For the sake of the kids? Is it good or bad for them for me to sit here at supper not knowing if the marriage would, could, should make it?"***

I know exactly what you mean. It's paralyzing, isn't it?

It's as if anything you do for WH condones his treatment of you.

How about this: Since you are still in the house, just concentrate on yourself and the three children. Make dinner. There will be enough for five. WH can serve himself. If he does not, then there will be leftovers for lunch tomorrow. No problem.

Clean the house. That's normal. You and the children need a clean house (though it doesn't have to be spotless - just comfortable.) If WH likes the clean house, that's just incidental. You didn't do it for him.

Do the laundry. You and the children need clean clothes. Throw WH's in if you feel like it; if not, just let his pile up for a few days and see how you feel about it then.

You can try this approach to get you through the next few days, and the next week or so, and see how you feel then. Keep posting here. You will get much help and support, especially starting tomorrow. The boards always slow down a lot on weekends and pick up again on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Also: Many BS here have turned to ADs (anti-depressants) to help them through an incredibly painful and debilitating time. Talk to your doctor and tell him/her exactly what has happened. They will understand and they will help you with this.

This sort of thing is much more common than most people think - and now you know that, too.

And try not to worry too much about WH's family. As another poster said, their defense of their failure of a son is very common. They blame you so they don't have to look so closely at him. Blood is thicker than mud, unfortunately.

Just take it one day at a time. You will make your decison when you are ready to make it. There is no rush.
Mulan

Mulan,

You wrote,

It's as if anything you do for WH condones his treatment of you.

I can relate to this. To further complicate matters, my H is trying so hard to be nice now that I feel downright mean if I don't reciprocate.


I think I am just so low and resentful because I had the pleasant job of calling the OW's H. I will get better.

Oak:

Had your WH had an internet infatuation and connection with NC ever as his first affair and then he had a real life PA, you could almost discount the first one and focus on the last one. If he would have gone out and got drunk and had a one night stand and then had a real loving fling, you could work with it easier. The fact that he has had 2 extensive EA/PA's within a short time periods, it shows how easy it is for him to betray. You are the woman who gave him everything.

Forgiveness is a choice for any BS and once betrayed by the WS, you know what their capabilities are. If you give them one more chance for the sake of the family and children, and they go right back and do it again, you have to question their deep rooted values. If I was faced with affair # two from my wife in timelines like you are, I don't know what I would really do. I know I would have no respect for my wife if she betrayed me again and I think I would set her free. It has taken me two years to feel secure in my marraige after D-Day and I do not believe that I would have the strength to fight to save the marriage. I would have to look at all the circumstances and make my judgment based on all the facts.

The kids learn from the actions of parents and how we deal with too. I would keep talking with your IC and have them help sort this out for you to help you make the right decision. I am sorry for what you are going through. There is a side to me that says to go have a fling yourself to show him how betrayal fees but you diminish your own self worth by doing so. That is not a good idea really.

TooSoon

TooSoon, there have been many times that I have wondered if my WH really, really understood how awful this pain is, would he still have done it? Truthfully, would any of us do hurtful things if we knew the full extent of the consequences beforehand?

I am in way too much agony over this to see an affair as anything but the ugliest abberation of intimacy. To say that having one myself seems unappealing would be an understatement.

You say that kids learn from the actions of parents. Well, today I fell of the couch, got my coffee, and have been sitting at my desk crying all day. The OW's efforts to contact this week have left me so depressed and weepy. My H has been the understanding one today. He is the one who has fed, entertained, taken to church, everything...with the kids. (These are all the things I did alone when he was out of town with OW for a year and a half, of course.) Every time I leave my little office room, I get weepy and return. I usually "get over" the depression and have several days of doing better, almost great a lot of times. Based on the last few months, though, I believe something will surface to send me to this place again. Counseling does it to me,too.

But TooSoon, what makes this so hard is that my H IS fighting for the M. He is sorry. He wants to make amends. I just feel like I am so recently even aware of what he is making amends for. When I get upset and weepy for hours, he will "hold down the fort". Lately, it's gotten infrequent that I feel myself spirialing downward. What is getting so hard is that now when I go way down, it is very hard to come back up. I don't spiral for no reason, besides the obvious past ones I mean. Something always happens.

I would appreciate advice from anyone about whether or not moving would help. I feel that this affair has tainted even my relationships with my girlfriends. They all know about it and are very uncomfortable around me. A part of me would like to move away where no one knows about this.

Oak, you have a lot of time invested in your husband. Years and years of work, and it MAY be starting to take hold. I hope you will be able to find the fortitude to hang in there just a little while longer and give yourself time to recover from the ravages his adulteries have made on the marriage.

To mark a new beginning, have you actually brought up moving with your husband? He could be as willing as you are. Actually, a fresh start in a new town can be beneficial for both of you. New cell phones, new email accounts, new things to do...it can all be part of a second chance, finally, at a good marriage.

Oak, have you seen a doctor about your depression? It would seem you are a prime candidate for anti-depressants for a little aid in getting past the low points.

We’re all hoping you can revitalize your marriage. Things look bleak now but these times will pass. Hang in there, okay?

There is no reason to make any quick decisions. You have a broken heart and you will have to see if you have it in you to forgive. We will support you either way and we understand your difficult situation. No reason to rush to a decision. Let your heart guide you.

TooSoon

TooSoon, Longhorn, everyone...

Thank-you so much for all of your responses today. This has been a gut-wrenching day, but better with my forum friends.

I am going to put short people to bed. I will post again tomorrow. Again, as bad as this recovery is I know I am blessed by God through this forum of people who understand.

Sleep well, all.

Oak,
Enjoy the evening as much as you can...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

tomorrow is not going anywhere......

Take care! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Good Morning, and good Monday!

Thanks to everyone for your support over the weekend.

My WH worked very hard this weekend to give me the space I needed to continue working through all of this. I know he is under a lot of stress at home, duh, and work and I want you all to know that he is definitely on board.

I feel peace this morning that defies reason, because nothing has really changed. I just want to say that my H and I both spent time in prayer seeking forgiveness, healing, and direction. I have decided today to believe that God has heard us and loves us still. I guess for me to try to contemplate God's thoughts towards me and what I should do wouldn't be "reasonable" anyway.

I am just thankful for this particular moment here, at 9 am on a Monday, that God in His merciful way is planning good for me and my family.

At the lowest point of grief for me yesterday, my H just sat on the floor with me and prayed. I can honestly say that this is a side of my H that is beautifully new. So, thanks to everyone saying not to make any dramatic changes or decisions. God may be planning to do the "impossible" and heal this marriage.

I can rest today in His care.

Have a good day, all.

Oak ~ I have not read posts by SNT so I can't comment about where he is at or not. If NC has not been established, you are not in recovery and still dealing with an active affair.

If you have an active affair - then of course you are completely uninterested in marriage. Your feelings are normal, healthy and are becuase you are NOT in recovery!

But, lets proceed as if SNT has written his NC letter and has established a practice of radical honesty and accountability with you.

Have you posted on the recovery board? I truely think you would do better hearing from those women have been through recovery - its a different perspective than what you may hear on this board.

Let me tell you ~ at 4 months I didn't like my husband or my marriage much either.

Recovery is NOT about meeting ENs. Don't let anyone tell you that it is. The way you feel right now is NOT about lack of ENs. Your husband can't even begin to start meeting ENs (your lovebank ain't open, nor should it be) until he's put a framework in place for you to feel safe. EVEN with a perfect accountability plan in place with a husband 110% devoted to radical honesty...you are still going to feel like crap at 4 months into recovery. You didnt' get to this place in your marriage in 4 months, and recovery won't happen that quickly either.

Let me caution you.

Do not make decisions about your marriage based on feelings.

Feelings change. You are on a rollercoaster right now, and your decision making abilities are hugely impaired.

You don't have to stay in this marriage. You can leave. You don't have to make that decision right now.

My husband and I chose to recovery and chose to love each other. We did not have those feelings for quite some time. Feelings don't come back quickly and 4 months is barely enough time to recover from the shock of Dday, much less feel open to choosing to be vulnerable to someone that has devastated your life! The point is, you choose the marriage or choose the divorce. This is on YOUR timeline, not your husband or anyone elses. You get to decide when you are ready. You are in control here.

If you decide to choose the marriage, then you rollup your sleeves and start participating. Participation in the marriage is what will bring the feelings back.

Have you counseled with the Harleys? I strongly recommend it - you will do SO much better with their expert help and guidance. They can tell you if you have a marriage worth staying for, or if your feelings are because of a lack of honesty on SNTs part. They are incredibly insightful.

Hope this helps, and again, post for help on Recovery ok? You'll get good input from people who know what real Recovery feels like.

BrambleRose, thanks for your reply.

I guess I don't really consider myself into recovery yet. It's hard to know exactly where I am but this much I know: I told my H that the marriage we had was over. I don't want to celebrate anything about it, including our old anniversary, which was never celebrated anyway. I stopped wearing my ring, which I plan to sell.

This is a do-over if it is anything.

I want to heal as much as I can and then I don't want us to just "end up" together. I want to see if I am worth pursuing to my H, who stopped pursuing me 13 years ago. I want to see if he really wants to be married to me, not just "make good" for the damage that has been done.

I haven't couseled with the Harley's but have been to lots of MC and would love for it to continue as long as necessary.

I would like to continue posting here. I've gotten so much good advice and I see Recovery as the place you go when you are 100% "all in" for the marriage. I think I will get there, I just don't know how long it will take me.

Oak:



Your WH is either very good at lying and manipulating or he is changing. I have done some reading of a book called "people of the lie" and those type of people practice the lie so much it becomes an art. For your family's sake, I hope he is feeling true remorse and wants another chance. You will have to see his actions for they will speak louder than his words. Keep us posted.

TooSoon

TooSoon,

I have been lied to so convincingly and for so long by my H that that is exactly why, even with all the changes, that my heart has not budged.

Thanks for your words of caution.

I hope, for my children's sake and for my own, that my H shows over time with his actions that he has truly changed.