Thanks. I needed that to get back on track here. You're right, I can't let him see me down b/c then he will probably get back on the fence about it all & then where will be? He has to come out of this on his own. I need to take care of myself and my children. If he wants to screw up his life, then go right ahead. I can't make someone do something they aren't willing to do. If he has to make this mistake to realize it's a mistake, then that's his choice.

3-ish EST. is when the alien is coming.

There you go! It's his choice to screw it up, let him. You can't make him love you. You can't make him want you back. The important thing is that you take care of you and those two beautiful children. That's the most important thing.

I just emailed h about 30 min ago telling him about the man coming in here and saying that to me. I haven't heard from him. He called once and said he was at work (I emailed him to see if he was there first). I told him I couldn't talk, he kept saying what is wrong? what is wrong? I told him I'd tell him in the email that I was about to send. In the meantime I got busy and didn't get to send it right away...he calls back what is wrong? Have I done something? Are you ok?

This is pissing me off so dadgummed bad. why does it havce to be this way? I just wish he'd quit being so nice to me. it's just a put on anyway. He doesn't care. Its' just a front to make him look good. assh888.

We are all faced with trying to save a marriage with a person, who is supposed to be an adult, but is acting like a selfish child. I think this all boils down to entitlement. For some reason our spouses feel that they are entitled to something beyond our marriages, beyond us! Do any of us really want to be with someone who feels that way? I don't know if my W felt this way during the whole M, or if she changed when the OP got involved. I suspect that she felt this way the whole time.

How do we combat selfishness and entitlement? The best thing I can think of is to not give in to them, to let them know that the door is open and they are free to go, BUT, once they leave then return is on our terms if at all. My W does not want to return now, and very well may never want to, but if she does, she will have to satisfy all of my requirements to do so.

I know that nobody feels like it, but we are in a position of strength here. We tried to save our marriages and families. We have nothing to fear in the future, whereas they have the rest of their lives to evade their conscience about this.

So true Tired. I passed a church bulletin board the other day and it said "A clean conscience makes for a soft pillow at night" One thing we proudly have, that they don't.

I agree with you Tired. Wholeheartedly.

Now, I emailed my H. I wasn't hateful or anything at all. I just explained to him what happened to me this morning. I told him everything the man said. Including that the man didnt know him just knew someone who did. And that it upset me. I even apologized for sending him the email. I told him I'm sorry for a lot of things.

He just calls. And leaves a very nasty message on my voice mail saying "Uh, just call me back when you get this...it's about fifteen till two, thanks".

And it was very short and hateful. NOW what have I done wrong? I guess what I have done wrong is express my feelings again. I don't have the right to do that, oops I forgot.

Alien...alien...alien...don't play into him Soon. Don't play into the nastiness. Don't let him bait you. Don't let him get you into an argument if that is what he wants. Go Tiger!

ISWE - I know that feeling as well. Do you find it as humiliating as I do to have casual acquantences approach you with the information about the closest person in the world to you that you don't even know? Had a neighbor come by yesterday that has barely spoken to me in the last year, and even she knew more about my STBXH than I do these days. It was so hard to keep it together and so nothing more than Oh really? when she was obviously fishing for info.

Today is a really rotten horrible day.

There's an old song with lyrics "An honest man's pillow is his peace of mind" or something like that. I think that applies to us.

Soon, the mothership is controlling your H. I don't know if you can reach him through the fog, but it doesn't sound good.

Before I dropped the hammer on my M, I did make my WW talk to me one last time. I told her "I love you with all my heart and I will do anything I can to help you to be happy, but this sh** is going to stop, NOW!" She said that she wasn't sure what she wanted, so that answered all my questions. To this day she has shown no regret. I think we all reach a point where we can no longer stand the insanity. I think that both of you are at this point. A "I don't know" or "sometimes" or "maybe" is not a decision to fight for the M and should be viewed as a "No".

I see it as a no. That is why I'm over it. I will remain in the house until my renters move out. I'm gone. I'm tired of his attitude. I'm tired of him being hateful to me all the time.

He just called here being very short and hateful. I said "listen, why are you mad at me?". He said he wasn't mad and then demanded to know who the guy was that came in here this morning. I would not tell him. I told him that I knew I shouldn't have sent the email becuase I'm not allowed to express any of my feelings. He said "well there's a lot of things I'd like to express too". He said "I don't appreciate it when someone speaks for me and makes things their business when it's not"

I told him, well I guess when people see you out doing things or know that you are doing them then that makes it their business to repeat. He is only mad cause he knows that someone has told something that he's been trying to hide and I know it now. I will not tell him who the guy is, no need for that. No need in dragging other people into it, there's nothing to drag them into. Our marriage is over so what's does it matter anyway?

What upset me is that he called here mad at me! I didn't do anything. Welll, I did, I opened my mouth.

I told him I'd be late tonight. I have IC tonight. And ofcourse he wants to know exactly what time I'll be home. I'm sure so that he'll know what time to leave her and come home. Alien.

I am sorry for your pain Soon. I'm sorry that all of us are having to go through this. I can't understand why people do this to each other and especially to someone who loves them. I think having someone love you is the most wonderful thing in the world, but for some people I guess it's not enough. All I want is someone to love with all my heart, with everything that I've got, and who will love me in return. I don't want to cheat or lie, just to give and be given to. Why is that not enough for someone?

I don't know and I'll never figure it out. I'm tired of trying to figure it out.

I bought my H some girl scout cookies, thin mints are his favorite. I just want to throw them away.

I don't know if the ADs have kicked in our what. But I'm just down right mad today and I don't like being this way. It's almost as if I don't give a damn anymore. And I don't want to go home in the mood I'm in right now. I really don't. I mean, I know it's over between us and I don't want to fight anymore. I just wish I could keep my mouth shut. Why do I feel the need to express my feelings towards him? It's obvious that he doesn't care. He just wants what is best for him and his family.

What does she have that I don't? Why can't he love me anymore? I have so many questions that I know I'll never have the answer to.

Remember one thing Soon, when a spouse strays, it's b/c of something missing in them. Something is broken in them - not you. Chances are they will not find what they are looking for "out there". I just hate that I have to sit here and watch this all happen, when my family/marriage could be saved, instead my H is going to let it fall apart for his illusion. He is so mistaken and so pathetic anymore. Just not the man I used to know, it's so frightening to see what he has become. I know I wouldn't want the man he is now. And he also blames the way he is now..on guess who...ME!

I don't think your AD's are in full effect yet. When they are you won't be so mad, just more numb. They really do take away the highs and lows.

It's pretty common to want to ask these questions. Why? I got my STBX to promise to talk to me after the D is finalized just so I can ask those questions. I've asked them all before, but maybe when it's over I can get honest answers. I may wait a few months afterwards though, before we talk.

Thankful is right in that something is missing in them. If we loved them with everything, they may have a hard time finding someone else who will do that. I think they will see in time. Thankful, it is maddening knowing what is happening and what could be, and not being able to stop it. Something that has bothered me throughout this mess is the insanity of it all. There is no logic, no rational thought to someone in the fog. It's all me, me, and more me and what I want now, and to he** with everyone else.

I just emailed H one more time and told him I was leaving, asked him if he needed anything. I apologized for sending him that email, and told him it did'nt matter who said what. If he felt the need to do things in public and then blab to his "friends" then go ahead. He emailed back and asked what time I'd be in, where I was going and said he didn't want to blab.

I emailed him back and told him do what he wanted, that I was tired of fighting with him. I told him I woudnt' be too late and to go out and do what he needed to do. I set him free. I wish he wouldnt even ask when I'd be home. What does it matter. He can go and do as he pleases. I'm over it. Have I said that before?

Tomorrow I'm sure I'll be back on here whining and crying again. But I refuse to do that in front of him. I have to learn to put this in someones elses hands and I'm having trouble now trusting. I've tried to force him into loving me for so long that it's hard to stop doing that. I need to just put my trust into someone else. And quit these shennanigans (sp?)

Lean on us Soon, because we are leaning on you. Trust in Jesus to lift you up whenever you are at your lowest. Seems that every time I decide to lay down and die, something will give me a ray of sunshine. Sometimes it's on here, or a friend will call unexpectedly, or something will happen. This is not going to be easy, but do you really want this type of marriage for the rest of your life? I know you don't, and you deserve better.

No I don't want this type of marriage. What I want, I can't have. I can't handle it. Can my H use it against me (as far as custody issues) if I were to have myself committed? Just curious.

He probably could, better stay among the sane for a while longer. Sounds like your kids will need somebody with their sanity and I don't think your H has any right now.

That's what I thought you'd say. I don't know if I'll have any sanity by then or not.

I hope Thankful had a good talk with her alien. I know how it could be good by any means, I just don't know how to say it. I just hope she has made some progress.

Tired, thanks for all of your words of wisdom today. I sure do need them. I hope I am in a better mood by the time I get home. I hope my H isn't ill torwards me for telling him what that man said this morning. I have done nothing wrong so I don't know why he would get upset with me just becuase someone else is running their mouth. I guess that's just the easy way out, pinning the blame elsewhere other than the horses mouth. I hope you have a good evening and see plenty of sunshine rays.

Haven't heard from Cis so I hope she's well and progressing with her own personal recovery. As well as Blue.

Good evening all and I'll check up with you tomorrow.