Everyone, please help me. I have posted some communications between me and WW that have transpired during this last week. I had a phone session with Dr. Steve Harley on Thursday morning. He told me many things: He said I should try to get a little conflict going, expose the A and do Plan A while doing that. I am now talking with an extremely knowledgeable and very close friend from my church. As a former leader he has dealt with these issues many times. That’s why I’m counseling with him on how to best do this. He is a very wise man and very much in line with what the Harleys recommend. He is helping me devise a way to do this in a loving and well thought out manner. He also told me that I need to expose the affair...that when the church learns of indiscretions like this, a ‘council of love’ as he called it, is called, that is designed to keep members accountable for their lives re: baptismal covenants and marriage covenants. I also want and seek your help and advice on this forum. I am extremely grateful for all of you...for your wisdom and willingness to help both us BSs, and WSPs (unbeknownst to them). God bless you all!
RoT

Here is my situation:
My WW had been having me over for special occasions or spending time with me and the kids such as: Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve Dinner, Christmas Day, sitting with me at church etc., so I thought that perhaps she was thinking of working on our marriage. I was wrong, as you will see in the following e-mails. There are various excerpts and complete e-mails that I hope will help you glean insights into our marriage and what I need to do to save it.

Excerpt from WW’s e-mail:
“I don't think you should plan on spending March vacation dollars until you see if we have to pay in [taxes] or not. I am glad we can work together on this stuff. That brings me to another thing. I don’t want ANYTHING from you on Valentines Day....especially not flowers or jewelry we have a lot to pay for in the next few months. I am glad we can be friends but for me that is where we are. I don't look to see that changing. I hope whatever happens we can be friends always.”
WW

Excerpt from WW’s e-mail:
“I am hoping and, I think DD2 wants to get a job this summer.
I saw a whole different demeanor in her on Sunday towards you and that was good to see. I had scolded her about being so nasty the Sunday before. I guess she saw the way I acted too many times, though I have tried to tell her that it was wrong. Don't read anything into this. I am content with where things are now and don't have any plans to be together, but no matter what happens I do want to be friends, always. Anyway, DD2 should stop by and get her coat.”
WW

Not long after receiving this e-mail...like within a week, my DD2 surprisingly came to stay with me...hasn’t wanted to go back with Mom since, for nearly two weeks now...says she feels like Mom is ashamed of her. They fight a lot, as you will see in the following e-mails. DD2 also told me unasked, that WW’s OM has been coming to their apartment. DD2 is in counseling. She said to me that she’s “disgusted” with Mom and that her counselor is too. When I learned of OM’s presence at WW’s apartment and that she had introduced him to my kids, I wrote the e-mail below to WW. I probably should have asked for your advice before I sent it. Please tell me if I said anything that should not have been said. The reference to ‘friend’ below is in consideration of the e-mail in which she says she wants to be ‘friends always.’

Here it is:
“DD2 told me last night that you have been having your affair
partner come over to your apartment from time to time, and that both she and DS have met him. I don't consider your destroying our family by bringing him into their life and yours, as being any kind of friend to me! A true friend would try to protect her husband, herself and her children from just such an evil situation. I should be your friend and your husband. That’s the only way I will ever accept you as a friend, since I am your husband.”
RoT

Below is WW’s response to the above e-mail: My DD2 is into the Goth scene...has run away, gotten into trouble with the law twice, cut herself once in the Goth style of self mutilation. We told her we’d call the psych ward at the hospital if she ever does it again. So far she hasn’t. She is in counseling w/ a psychiatrist. My WW accepts no responsibility for the affair contributing to my DD2’s actions, as you will see in these letters.

Entire e-mail:
“Yes, DD2 has met OM, but she also is the only one that knew about
the "affair" I told her the night she cut her legs up many months ago. He has been here a couple of times briefly. He has not been over since DS has been home. The kids obviously know something has changed with us or I would not have moved out. I have talked to each of them and reassured them that no matter what happens "we" will always be their parents and we will be their parents together whether we are living together or not. I guess that part will now be up to you. I have tried to show them that I can love you without being in love with you and I believe that is possible. I have tried to show you more respect and love than I have in a very long time. I think it would be very selfish of you to send DS off on a mission trying to deal with a family feud. He needs all of our support and love. If you want contention now then I would question your own worthiness to go to the temple with DS. I can't believe you would act like this now. DS knows I am not perfect, he doesn't know everything because I have told him I wasn't ready to tell him everything and I don't think he needs to be burdened by his family while he is on his mission. I am glad DD2 feels comfortable sharing things with you. I can't tell you what to do or how to feel. I have tried to defend you many times when it comes to DD2....I have not said a hateful or hurtful word about you since I moved out. I am tired of you referring to OM as evil. He is a decent person and has been a good friend to me. If he is evil then I am evil too. You act like you have never made any mistakes in your life. I am thankful you are not my judge. I don't know what else to say.”
WW,

I didn’t actually call OM evil, I called the situation evil.
I also wrote this next e-mail re: her statement above where she says she can “love me without being in love with me.”

Entire e-mail from me to her:
Her:
“I have tried to show them [our children] that I can love you
without being in love with you and I believe that is possible.”
Me:
“The love you describe, isn't love at all, it's hate. For a husband to hear from the lips of his wife "I love you, but I'm not in love with you," is the most cruel and hateful thing she could ever say to him. It's the devil proclaiming his "love" for you.

I don't want your "love." Your words say to me, 'You're my husband, but you're not worth keeping.' They are not the 'kind,' 'loving' or 'caring' words you want them to be!”

Entire e-mail from WW:
“I just got in from work. I want to remind you that DD2 had problems going back to early Elementary School. I am not the one who is making her unhappy. She is clinically depressed. I have to work at the airline tonight and I am going to sit down and eat and relax awhile.”
WW

Here is what I wrote back to her re: above letter.
“Ask her psychologist how affairs affect children. Ask her how your affair has affected DD2 specifically. Isn't that something you should know?”

I also wrote this to her:
Entire e-mail
“I am angry WW, and I am sad! My heart has been obliterated...smashed to pieces by you and OM. The children’s hearts are broken too, and DD2’s happy teen years were snatched away. That’s why I’m angry! It’s a righteous anger that I have every right to feel and express when it comes to someone who is destroying my marriage and my family. Whether you think he’s a decent person and a good friend to you or not, he chose to be my enemy. I didn’t choose to be his.

This should not be happening! He should have sent you packing when
you showed up at his door. He’s a married man. You’re a married woman. The path you’re on is not a good one. I’m not judging you. My past is as scarlet as it gets. I’m just telling you like it is. There is no lasting joy where you’re headed. You know that.

Please come home. You could sleep on the top bunk and we could
talk about our kids, our future grandkids and maybe about fixing our
marriage. I’ve changed, and, I know the way now.”
RoT

This is her latest e-mail to me. I got it last night:
Entire e-mail:

“RoT,
I am not going to keep hashing this out. DD2 was lashing out at me
the night she told you about OM being over here. I don't need your
permission to have anyone over. He installed a smoke detector for me, fixed the towel racks in the bathroom, hung the mirror and a number of other things...if I invited him to stay, I did. I asked DD2 if she would mind and she said no. I guess I shouldn't have put her in that situation. But, she was very talkative and funny and seemed okay. It was poor judgement on my part. Anyway, later that evening after I called and screamed about the computer around 1 a.m. I wrote her an e-mail and apologized for my behavior, I admitted I was wrong....that is something you could never do and will never do.

You were never willing to admit that anything was your fault....I was
not getting what I needed from you in our relationship, period. I tried to tell you before anything started. I bought you a book to read and it wasn't until I had one foot out the door that you took any interest in it at all. You always complained about sex and I begged you not to that it was making it even worse...but you did anyway. The money situation became unbearable to me.

Why do you feel you are such an expert on what makes someone happy? You
didn't make me happy anymore. You were so wrapped up in yourself that you shut everyone else out. I am glad that you feel like you have changed and learned from it but it doesn't change the way I feel. I am still trying to heal.

I have had long conversations with DD2 about everything. She has
not been a healthy happy child for many years....if you want to blame someone, blame genetics. I do believe it is difficult for the kids to see us separated but I don't believe it makes them love me any less...I will never believe that. I also do not believe the environment we were living in was healthy for them.

You are trying to make me feel guilty for leaving you. I will not. I
am a happier and nicer person living apart from you. You only saw things the way you wanted to see them and you wouldn't listen to or didn't care a bit about how I felt about anything, sex, the finances especially the house etc....you would not walk away from it....like I wanted to do....instead it was a full year later creating an even larger wedge between us. I simply couldn't take it anymore.

I don't think it is appropriate for you to discuss and probe DD2 for
what I am doing and who I am seeing and just for the record OM has long since been divorced. Like I said I know she told you things because I was so angry about the computer and I took it out on her and she was lashing out. I don't doubt that in a perfect world DD2 would want us to be together as would DD1 and DS but not together the way we were. The reports I have been getting from the school Psychologist say DD2 has made a great improvement this year emotionally...but not academically. I can't change what I have done but I can try to make it right. I am just not ready.

I know that it was wrong to have an affair. But, it is also possible
to seek forgiveness. You have proven once again that you will never forgive me. I don't care anymore. I don't need your forgiveness. I don't want your forgiveness.

My brother was only barely 17 when his wife left him for another man.
But, at that young age he was mature enough that even though his heart was ripped to shreds he put his daughter first. Because of that they were able to maintain a relationship all these years. I would expect at your age you could put the children first. Why don't you quit blaming me for everything that has happened and try to just give of yourself to them and not do all the WW bashing. That is not healthy or right. You can ask DD2 if you care too, though I feel it is inappropriate that you would try to put her in a battle between us. She does a good enough job trying on her own sometimes. But, I have defended you and your behavior many times over since we have been
apart. Most recently the night she called and got all upset about the
driving. I took her out and she did quite well...the only thing she did was get a little close to the side of the road at the end of our drive on Creek road. She is going to make mistakes but hopefully they will not be mistakes that cause an accident. I told her..."DD2 I think the problem with you and dad's drive's is that you are both all tense before you even get started, you just need to relax more when you get behind the wheel....trust in yourself and your ability to be alert and on your driver's training...you are a good driver and you are doing very well"...then I made her drive herself to your place and told her you both needed to work it out.

I don't need you to create problems where there are none. DD1, DS and DD2 are loving and wonderful to me. That will not change unless for your own selfish reasons you try to destroy that which in my opinion would be more evil than my affair. I plan to tell them everything when I feel it is the right time. I am not sure when that will be. I feel it was the right time with Olivia maybe I was wrong I don't know.

DS has less than 8 weeks before he leaves for his mission. We still
have shopping to do and other things to get him all ready. I had hoped we could still communicate and do that. If we don't I think that will be terrible for DS. We will be having DD1 and her H and my parents here for his farewell. I had hoped we could have peace within our family especially at this important time in his life. In his papers of "information to the family" it clearly states "not to burden missionaries with family problems." I would hope if for no other reason than to support our son you can put this behind you. Your anger is not what he needs right now or what Olivia needs.
WW”

The ‘book’ she’s referring to was a ‘save your marriage book by Dr. Phil. I read it and practically memorized it...did all the forms etc. She would not consider doing any of the things recommended in the book.
I did complain to her about sex. For some reason after DD2 was born. WW didn’t want to have sex with the same frequency as before...in which I was very happy...three or four times a week. This was upsetting in the extreme to me. When I asked her about it then, she said she just didn’t feel like doing it any more so often. I was devastated and brokenhearted then. It was my biggest emotional need. The frequency dropped to 1 to 3 times a month from then on. Whenever I would complain she would get angry and say I just don’t need it as much as you do, and it isn’t going to happen, especially if you complain. It was so infrequent, that whenever she held me I would get my hopes up, make a move, hand in the wrong place or something and she would get angry. She’d say “I feel like a piece of meat, can’t you just hold me?” She would often say, I know you need this. I’ll be there for you tonight, or we’ll do it tonight, but I can’t remember one time when she said that, that it actually happened. So after I discovered the affair she told me that it was the biggest reason for leaving me. My question is this: How could she know that her lover wouldn’t be the same way? I think all men are like me. From July to October of 2003 I went through a biopsy, surgery, and radiation treatment for prostate cancer. After the surgery I had chronic pain that persists to this day. The aftermath of treatment devastated our sex life even more. For nearly a year erections wouldn’t happen, except by using pumps, jellies and elastic ties. I can only describe it as embarrassing, humiliating and painful. My WW was turned off by all this to the extreme. I wanted to perform. She wanted me to just be satisfied without intercourse...didn’t want to mess with the paraphernalia. The thing that made me feel the most connected and loved by my beautiful wife became an object of disgust for her...she didn’t hide it. I felt very unloved. I became depressed, despondent, confused and angry. WW said things like: “why can’t you just be happy, you’re alive, you’re healthy, blah, blah, blah. The pain in my back and tailbone kept me from feeling healed of the cancer...wayward cells do go to the bone usually, so that kept me scared.

Medical bills piled up. Then 9/11 came. It affected my WW’s job at UAL. Her wages and hours both were cut. We couldn’t meet expenses. Bill collectors harassed us daily...sometimes hourly. We had just moved into our “dream home.” We had to refinance a year after buying the house. We had bought the house with a lot of equity all ready there. We borrowed on that to the hilt. Then I learned about the A. We stayed together for 2 years. We cleaned and painted the house and put it up for sale but it didn’t sell for 8 months. We got a paper route for extra cash. WW got another job, but it paid minimum wage. I took on extra hours at work whenever I could. I got another part time job. Our mortgage holder would not give us a break...said we made too much money to qualify for special consideration. Bill collectors called even more frequently. We reduced the price and put the house up for sale ‘by owner.’ All this got to WW. She was angry and always screaming at me about our finances. WW began borrowing money from OM. This hurt a lot. My thoughts about her doing this were very dark. I was doing everything I could think of to find help. One of the tenets of our church is to pay a full tithing...in the Old Testament read Malachi 3:8-11. WW agreed that we needed to do this, but said that we should pay our bills first. A new problem developed. DD1 became engaged and set a date for New Years Eve 2004. To attend a temple wedding in our church it is required to be a full tithe payer. I had talked my head off for a year and a half to WW about doing this. She said “The Lord helps those who help themselves.” In other words the Lord wasn’t going to help us at all, we’d have to do it. She had no faith in tithing. I wanted to be with my daughter at the actual wedding, that sacred ceremony. WW could not because of A. I began paying a tithe to the church on my wages only. WW was furious because I set up a tithing account at the bank that automatically took out 10 percent of my salary and gave it to the church without telling her I was going to do it. I didn’t know about LBs in those days. But she was borrowing money from OM and had gone to a lawyer about filing bankruptcy without telling me. WW had been literally screaming at me to give the house back to the bank...to walk away from it...called me stupid...called me an idiot. Told me we should take out bankruptcy. I didn’t feel comfortable about doing either of those things. It was hard for me to listen to her when all she did was berate me and scream at me. I stubbornly refused to do it...in retrospect it was prayers and help from the church that got us through. WW felt shame in this...wouldn’t eat the food provided by the church and kept seeing OM. Job had it better than I...just kidding. We were making six hundred dollars less each month than we had in bills. But I found a real estate agent that was willing to help us sell the house. The mortgage company gave us two months with her to sell it or else they would foreclose. With only two days to go, the house sold. It was literally a prayed for by me miracle. WW by this time had taken out her own personal bankruptcy...never told me she was going to do this. Then informed me she was going to move into her own apartment. I helped her move...gave her all the good furniture and appliances. I’m paying the monthly payments for our life insurance, renters insurance, joint credit cards, cell phones, storage unit and 650 dollars a month to WW to help her with expenses for our kids...not to mention sundries.
With two households, the cost is not much different from when we lived in our home. All I can say is that paying that tithing has worked. I haven’t had a dunning phone call since selling the house.

T don’t probe and seek anything from my DD2. She sometimes just tells me stuff out of the blue. I’ve never asked her anything about what WW is doing. I think DD2, came here to stay with me in part to learn what had happened. She was very angry that we have kept this whole thing under wraps and her in the dark...said she deserved to know why her life was falling apart like it is. I felt very chastised about it...just thought I was doing the right thing. From the letter above, it feels like it’s too late although I’m confused about why WW has never filed for D. I keep hanging in here. It hurts to love and care about someone so much and have them hate you in return.

I am composing exposure letters for family. That is nearly done. I will just talk to close friends. WW says OM is long divorced so I don’t know what to do about calling his W or exW or whatever she is. What about calling UAL? Does anyone on here work for them? Do they have a non-fraternization policy? So, where am I. What have I done wrong here? Where do I go from here? Dr. Harley said to stay in Plan A for now during exposure, and see where that goes. Am I saying and doing things the right way...the way the Harleys would say to do it? He told me to stick with you guys. Thanks in advance for pitching in here and helping me figure this out.
RoT

Here's an update: Since I wrote the above statements yesterday, I have counseled together with two close and trusted friends who were former bishops in my church. One of them said that it always went better with WWs or WHs if they came in to him without being confronted by him about it. The other friend said that I should expose as I told you earlier in the above epistle, but that after hearing our other friend's reasoning, he said that I could at least talk to my wife's present bishop and let him know of the pain both of us are going through. Telling my wife's parents of their daughter's present life does not feel right to me anymore. Her parents are in their 80s and in frail health. This could be disastrous emotionally and physically for them. Telling all the siblings and my children, rings of being a tattletale and vengeful. I do not want to dishonor my wife in any way ever to my children! I'm not feeling like I want to expose anymore. I will listen to rebuttals. I know this is against the Harley's recommendations and against what I said above. I am one confused and drowning in the "River of Tears" soul.
RoT

Your wife sure is being hypocritical by putting on a show of going to temple all the while engaging in adultery. She has the audacity to criticize you for your example to the kids, Her example is over the top. How dare she expect a charade after all this time in her affair.

I really think you should heed the exposure advice. It can be done in a way that seeks influencial people's help and not sound vengeful but with the sincerity of one with a last ditch effort to try to save his marriage.

I think it wrong to shield your children from the truth. Just like your daughter your other children will be upset with you for partaking in this deceitful act of shielding them from the truth that has effected their lives without their having the ability to voice their opinions. They will feel like they have been living a lie for the last several years. You will have to apologize, You have been enabling the affair, unbeknownst to your own self in an attempt to placate her and be her 'friend'.

SH has lots of experience with infidelity and I suggest using the advise he gave you. May as well get your monies worth.

RT, I am so very sad that you have listened to your "friend" instead of using tried and true Marriage Builders principles that have saved untold # of marriages. At this late date, the salvation of your marriage gets bleaker and bleaker, yet you choose to ignore the professional advice of someone with a PROVEN successful track record and take the advice of some "friend." I just don't know what I could possibly say to you if you feel that this is a wise path to take. Except to perhaps wish you the best, because you will need it, my friend.

How does this sound river of tears. Dr. Harley became a full time marriage counselor when his success rate jumped over 90% by using his tatics for saving marriages when he counsels.

Affairs thrive in secrecy. If you keep it in secrecy it breeds and grows and spreads in that enviroment. Ask yourself this why are you following this friends advice when you have for what the past 3 years already being following that advice of not telling and so far it hasn't work one bit has it. What makes you think that following this friends advice which has been your whole plan for the past 3 years is just sudendly going to work?

Like Dr. Phil says, if you want different results you have to act different. You are not acting different, as a result the results you have had for the past 3 years are going to continue.

While you are mulling all of this over, why don't you start making some changes in yourself? That is all you can really do anyway.

If you read her correspondence, she is complaining about several issues - the money, you treating her as a piece of meat, no saying you are sorry, and some others. Work on those things.

You can also work on having a nice home for your daughter and you.

All of this stuff takes a lot more time than you think. I would get busy making your life better.

Thanks for not pulling any punches re: your comments to me about my last post. I guess I need to know how and why exposing works. You've all said I should expose, but I need an understanding of why and how it works. Some of you sound exasperated with me. Remember, I am new to this. I'm not educated in these matters like most of you. I just wonder how something that appears to be so out of control can be effective in ending an A. Thanks again for your wisdom. I am trying to gain some of my own.

What is it about exposing the A that makes it an effective A breaker? How might it affect her family members? How might it affect their feelings towards me?What does exposing it to our friends do to WWs to make them want to end the A? It seems possible that each exposure could take on a 'life of it's own/ that might lead to who knows where. Is that a good thing?
RoT

River - We have been around here long enough, and heard thousands of stories like yours, and watched what happened after exposure. In my 14,000 some posts, I have only seen 2 people that were not happy they exposed. One is Nellie, who ended up divorced, and the other is Filly who got beat up and put in the hospital when she exposed to the other woman's husband. However, the affair DID end, and she recovered her marriage.

River of Tears - I answered this question back on Feb.24th on another of your threads. You dropped that thread and never responded.

After 3 years the "shock" of your wife actually engaging in adultery against both God and you has "worn off." But you are still hopelessly lost in denial and refusal to accept responsibility for what YOU need to do and change in yourself, to say nothing of your "easier road" of "conflict avoidance" with your wife.

So in the hope that you may begin to understand and make some needed changes in yourself first, I will respond briefly. What you DO with the information is up to you.



RoT, you live in fear and use it to "justify" your inaction. In point of fact, it is most "unloving" that you try to "protect" an UNREPENTANT spouse from her CHOICE to sin and commit adultery.

The "Guideline" for dealing with any unrepentant sinner is contained in Matthew 18:15-20. This "guideline" came from Jesus Christ and is NOT an "opinion" of "well meaning friends."

Is it emotionally hard to see your spouse (who you love even if they don't love you) possibly "thought of poorly" by others? Of course it is. That's because you DO care about her, unlike her NOT caring about you. But NOT exposing sin is NOT how to deal with it, especially when you are dealing with a hugely serious sin such as Adultery.

Would you NOT say something if she were a murderer? Would you not say something if she was a rapist? Would you "allow," through inaction and a refusal to say anything because fear of what someone else might think, her to continue ACTING as your friend and spouse while going around in secret killing and raping others and affecting the lives of others in an extremely bad way?

You need to STAND for God, not excuse sin. THAT is part of what exposure is...being obedient to God's commands.

Do you have a potential "log in your eye" that you think allows you to hide behind another part of Scripture? That is Satan's way of getting you to believe that God didn't really mean what He said. We are ALL sinners. We ALL have our own "logs" to deal with. The DIFFERENCE is repentance when we recognize sin in our own lives and TRYING to be obedient to God's commands and WORKING at becoming more "Christ-like," NOT being "Perfect" before we tell someone else that THEY are also sinning. So you are already "afraid" and Satan uses your fear to get you to "Do Nothing."

Ever hear the phrase..."Silence denotes consent?" By being silent and NOT exposing the affair, you are "consenting" to it as being "okay." Think of that "witness" to your children and their potential future choices. Kids see what you DO and it teaches them much more than anything you "say."



Let's get something straight right now. Your marriage is ALREADY OVER. That is NOT in your control, it's in your wife's control. "Friends" or "not-Friends" is NOT Married and is NOT an issue....it's a red herring.

If you want ANY chance at recovering your marriage, the affair must end FIRST. The affair CANNOT end as long as it is allowed to be conducted in secret and as long as everyone else is allowed to think you are "man and wife" in the Biblical sense. You are NOT. There is NOTHING to lose, it's been lost already. All you have is the possibility of GAINING back your wife and gaining back the love you both used to share.

PART of that "gaining back" is that YOU, if you are serious about wanting her back, need to read up on Emotional Needs and understand how you were NOT meeting her most important emotional needs. Just the emphasis on sex that you mentions screams of "self-centeredness." I read your history and could see her withdrawing more and more as you kept refusing to meet HER Emotional Needs and all you did was to focus on YOUR Emotional Needs.

Let me make this very clear.....IF there is NOT "love" in the home, it is the "fault" of the husband. It is the husband that God commanded to LOVE his wife. God did NOT command women to love their husbands. The Emotional responses to a Husband who IS loving his wife and meeting her Emotional Needs, in love, WILL see that love reciprocated....that is part of God's design.

What has your wife written to you about the OM? "He does this....he does that....he puts up this for me....etc., etc., etc.,....

Women respond with love TO actions, not words, that say "I love you." It is a difference between men and women. Women do NOT have a heavy load of testosterone running around in their veins, men do. That is why men are thought of as "always thinking about sex" and women are "slow cookers." It is true, and it, too, is part of God's design.

The OM is "doing," while you are "talking." Care to guess which "tactic" she is going to respond to?




No, I guess it's not a "good thing." It makes much more sense to continue doing what you've been doing the past 3 years so successfully.

OF COURSE exposure takes on a "life of it's own." It's SUPPOSED to. It is supposed to let the light of day shine on the fog of adultery with TRUTH. It is supposed to "confront sin" in love with TOUGH LOVE, when met with continuing resistance and unrepentance.

River of Tears, I and many others here on MB know all the thoughts and fears that have been running through your mind. We will grieve with you over some of them, but they are CAUSED by your wife's CHOICE to commit adultery to satisfy HER NEEDS regardless of how it negatively affects anyone else's (like your children for example) lives.

Do you want treatment, a lengthy and sometimes uncomfortable and painful treatment, for the cancer? Or do you think that "wishing it wasn't so" is the best way to eradicate the cancer and allow the healing to begin and the gradual regaining of strength and full health?

The decision to DO is yours. The decision to CHANGE is yours. The decision to BE both a loving father and a loving husband is yours. Your marriage MAY still end in divorce simply because you cannot control your wife's choices. But that does NOT free you from DOING all that you can to rescue her from the fogbound land of adultery and back to the not so "fantasylike" realm of reality. Marriage takes WORK by both spouses, as well as forgiveness and "submitting in love" in many areas.

Begin the process, or choose to let her go. Either way, the Adultery WILL become known sooner or later. Sooner, and you may yet be able to save your marriage. Later, and it will become known as the reason WHY you two divorced.

May I also suggest that you get two books (for starters) and read them. They will give you a wealth of understanding and knowledge. The first is called Torn Asunder by Dave Carder and the second is called Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley.

Good luck.

RT, Foreverhers gave you excellent advice. The only thing I am going to add is that the reason exposure works so well is because affairs thrive in secrecy. Exposure ruins this. Affairs are meant to be kept secret, because they are wrong and the affairees know this. When they are exposed, the fantasy is ruined when the affairees are forced to view themselves through the eyes of others. They suddenly see how sleazy they really look. This is why exposure is ruinous to affairs.

Failure to expose an affair only HELPS the affair thrive and grow as you can see with you own eyes. That makes you an enabler. Had you ever lifted a finger to do anything about your marriage before it may not have got this far. But, better late than never.

You said earlier that your W told you that the OM is "long divorced." I would verify this as it is probably a lie. You may find out he is either seperated or even has a family set up in another city. But, you cannot take the word of your W. She is not trustworthy and neither is the OM.

Thanks for all of your powerful arguments!!! I can't defend what I was thinking. So, OK,I'm back to finishing the exposure letters. I'll keep you all posted.

I'm wondering what you all have seen after exposing. How have WS's reacted? What should I expect and how should I respond or should I respond? How have WS's families reacted.
RoT

Your WW will be furious and will say things like: "we had a chance, we don't now," blah, blah, blah, blah. She will make all manner of threats to get you to stop and to make you feel bad.

A good exposure strategy is to do it all one day so she gets the maximum impact. I think the most potent exposures in your case will be the OM's wife/XW, parents, children, and their employer. I would send a letter to the their bosses and to Human Resources informing of the affair and it's impact on your family. Make allusions to issues with sexual harassment in the workplace and ask them: "what do you intend on doing about it?"

The most important thing you can do if you are going to do this is find out information on the OM, even if you have to hire a PI to do it. I seriously doubt he is really divorced and think your best opportunities lie there.

Hi everybody,

I have another update. I called a PI today to see about finding the OM's W. She said they don't work for private people, only for lawyers, but she told me exactly where to go to find some of the information I needed. The place was the courthouse on the 7th floor. A lady there helped me with the computer(without a mouse). I had a copy of the OM's divorce decree with his W's name on it (which I did not know until today) in about 20 minutes. On the decree, the State and County where they got their marriage license was noted, so later today I called that county recorders office and asked for a copy of that too. It will be sent Monday or Tuesday of next week. I'm anticipating that I'll discover his W's maiden name on that, and perhaps her parents' names and address too.

I've got quite a few exposure letters written to siblings, other family members, and one to the airline where WW and OM work together. I will simply talk to mutual friends and to my church leaders. Once I get everything ready I'll need to choose a day to send them the way Melody described. Below is a rough draft of the exposure letter to the airline WW and OM work for. I'm hoping I hit the points Melody pointed out in her note.

"The most subtle form of sexual harassment in the workplace is a company like yours, turning it’s head to employees having affairs with workplace ‘lovers.’ Affairs that rip families and children away from their formerly secure and stable lives. I am wondering what ****** Airlines is doing about this despicable situation that is rampant in the airline industry. I’m nearly certain that you have heard the saying: “He got AIDS”…Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome. I have to tell you, when my wife applied for a job with ******, I felt the ominous portent of something just like this happening to her, but I trusted her, and I trusted ******, that she would be safe there. I feel let down by her and by ****** Airlines. She told me that she didn’t mean for this to happen, it just did. I know that my wife and her affair partner bear the brunt of the blame for this, but when supervisors hear or learn of workplace affairs, does your company do anything to preclude them from happening, or to counsel the participants in the devastation this might cause…not only for their children, friends and families, but for ****** Airlines as well? Affairs can and do cause severe emotional stress that affects your customers' safety and the safety of your other employees. It is well known, that both parties involved in affairs commonly contemplate suicide because of the guilt and hurt they have caused to so many. You all know that pilots under extreme emotional stress are a danger in the cockpit. Ramp crews and baggage handlers operating heavy equipment are a danger to others and to themselves. Flight attendants are expected to handle emergency situations with clear minds and good judgment. Affairs often go on for months or even years, causing extreme emotional ups and downs in all it’s victims. I wonder how many ****** Airlines families have been destroyed, and how many accidents have been caused by your lack of oversight in this extremely serious matter! In the military, adultery is punishable by court martial. Why should it be any less of an offense with ****** when it has the possibility of creating the devastation just described? You don’t stand by when someone is smoking on your aircraft. Why would you stand by when you learn of an affair, which has even greater potential for disaster?"

Any comments and critiques are welcome.

Thanks everyone for your support, encouragement and wisdom.
RoT

Hey RT, good sleuthing! If you can get the names of OM's children and his parents, that may be a good target. When did the D take place? I wonder if it happened because of his affair with your W? It might help to contact the XW and give her the facts and get some information from her. She may know quite a bit.

On the letter, I think you make several good points, but I would cut back on the lectures and ADD THE FACTS. For example, begin with:

My wife, SusieLou, has been a stewardess for your airlines since 1995. She began an illicit workplace affair with another one of your employees, Joe Bum, around 1999. We are currently seperated over this affair as it has caused great destruction to our family and marriage. This affair also ruined Joe Bum's marriage, so it would be accurate to say this workplace affair has destroyed 2 marriages. [only say this if it is true]

As you know, The most subtle form of sexual harassment in the workplace is a company like yours, turning it’s head to employees having affairs with workplace ‘lovers.’ Affairs that rip families and children away from their formerly secure and stable lives. I am wondering what ****** Airlines is doing about this despicable situation that is rampant in the airline industry.

I would like to know what AA intends on doing about this affair and await your response.

ROT

RT, I would suggest being MORE FACTUAL and less emotional and judgemental in your letters. Be sure to lead off with the facts and just be as complete and concise as you can without so much emotion. I think that will be taken more seriously.

In your letters to family members, friends, give them the facts and simply state that you are notifying them because you could use their support in saving your marriage.

Good points Melody,

Facts only will make the letters shorter and easier to write too. Thanks for that advice.

In my session with Steve Harley the other day, he told me I need to develop some 'conflict' with my WW since she has almost completely withdrawn from me. I wrote and sent this letter to her today along with the check I write every two weeks to help support her. He told me to attempt doing Plan A for now...to not do any LBs or things like that although I probably still do unitentionally. Here's the letter. Am I doing better than before with this?

3/10/2006


WW,
Re: the money situation. You say I never listened to you about money, the house, etc. I was listening. I listened and I heard you call me horrible names: that I am stupid, stubborn, an idiot. You weren’t negotiating with me in any way, trying to convince me in a loving way to see your point of view. You sounded demanding to me. All I could hear was your anger, and the hate in the words you spoke to me. I don’t recall reciprocating that to you. I calmly and quietly gave you some ideas of how we could make it financially. You told me my ideas were stupid, and that they wouldn’t work. Would you do my bidding if I spoke to you that way, or if I were being demanding? Did you really consider my feelings about walking away from a debt, that in both of our upbringings teaches us we should honor? I wanted for us to walk away from the house having honored that debt if we could, with dignity and pride. That did happen. And I know it was costly now in more ways than one. But, if I had walked away from the house, would you have walked away from Steve? Was that negotiable with you? We talked about bankruptcy. I told you I would consider it. I first brought it up to you after visiting a debt counselor and *****, at ************* Mortgage. But did you ever sit down with me in a kind, loving way, to see if it was something we really should do or had to do? You did not have to take out bankruptcy! My first 401K loan was paid off in July. I had more than $35,000.00 dollars available to borrow from myself...enough to take care of all our bills. If we had sat down together in peace, harmony and love to negotiate about our differences, there could have been a completely different outcome. It seems to me that history has changed dramatically when you describe it, to make me out as an uncaring, sexually abusive, wrapped up in myself, shut everyone else out, unforgiving, don’t care how you feel, only saw things the way I wanted to see them, WW bashing, never willing to admit that anything was my fault, needs to be defended for my behavior, problem creating, selfish man. Why would you ever defend me to the children or even want me to be around them at all, if all those things you say are true. The truth is: I am the exact same man who fell in love with you more than 25 years ago, who cares about you even more deeply now than then...who has never left your side...who appreciates all you are and what you have done for me and for our children...who really does care about your future and your happiness...who could give a d***about what you have done...who has been patiently standing by with undying commitment and faith in you...who knows that God loves you and awaits your return with open, forgiving arms. I know that OM is a good man WW, maybe even a better man than I, he has been good to you, but he’s not your husband. Please come home WW. We can fix things! Me! It is not the same without you.
RoT

Are you kidding me?? The OM is a "good MAN???" ON WHAT PLANET??? A "good man" does not SCREW a married woman and break up her marriage!

RT, when Steve spoke of creating conflict, he didn't mean sending her long lectures telling her off. He meant to create conflict by exposing and ENDING YOUR FINANCING OF HER AFFAIR.

And I am shocked you have been financing this affair!

RT, you should not go bankrupt financing her affair. You should not pay a RED CENT of your family money, because you are contributing to your own demise. Your payments to her have only ENABLED her affair to go on this long. The OM should be supporting her, and I bet ya he wouldn't even bother. If were in a position to have to support her, I bet he would run! But you have PROTECTED him from that eventuality by giving her money for her little love nest. I would strongly consider cutting off all funds to her.

Lord help me, RT, what am I gonna do with ya?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

LOL! Poor Mel.

I agree. I can't see where or how you're introducing conflict here; indeed, by financing the A, you're helping maintain the status quo very, very nicely.

I can't believe you said the that the om is a good man, in fact I'm more surprised that you said/mention that the om might ever be a better man than you.

All you just did was rock harden your wife's belief that she is making the right choice by picking the om because he is a better man then my husband and he(my husband) said so himself!

Oh boy!

Yeah, I was pretty incredulous at this myself.

Even knowing nothing about the OW in my case, I know EVERYTHING I need to know about her. She couldn't hold a candle to me.

As much as WSs follow a script, so do OPs. They are cookie cutter people and share pretty much the same characteristics. There is no way on earth this man is better than you, RoT.

RoT-

I'm sure you meant well by supporting your wife. You felt strong opposition to walking away from your financial responsibilties with your creditors--and you viewed your financial situation with your WW in much the same way. Her financial situation was your responsibility--part of your duty as a husband.

And that is a perfectly noble position to take--as long as your wife is honoring her obligations to you. And she was not. Your monatary responsibilities to her ended when she moved out. Her CHOICE to live outside her marriage ought to have yielded the CONSEQUENCE of financial strain. You have prevented her from experiencing that necessary consequence. And choice and consequence is really what life is all about.

Pull the plug. Let her experience the reality of what she has chosen. Begin by explaining to your children what is going on--they need to understand why you are suddenly not providing for their mother anymore. They have a right to know what is going on in their family. They may want to fight for it, too.

-CSJ