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David,
This letter is very hard for me to write. I have loved you for so long and I can't believe it's come to this, but here we are.
Over the past several months your behavior has become erratic and disrespectful. You have allowed another person to share pieces of you that weren't appropriate for a married man to share with another women. With these actions, you have hurt me, the girls and damaged our family structure.
Our children, are important to me and knowing that you were a fantastic father has always been a matter of pride to me. We did good with them but now your actions and behavior are causing them pain. It has to stop.
I am going to end all contact with you. Your mother has agreed to act as a go-between if things, regarding the girls or the house, need to be handled. You can make arrangements to pick up Liz and she will come out to the car, if she wishes to go with you. I am doing this to protect myself from the obvious pain you are causing me with your words and actions.
I never wanted a divorce. I thought we were forever. You made these choices without me. I had no say in the matter and you refused counseling, saying it wouldn't work and you left. So now we are at a point where you are calling the shots but you can no longer call them for me. I am deciding to take back what's left of my life and make it the best it can be for me and the girls, with or without you. I still want to save the marriage because I do love you, but this is something you must want too.
If you want to work on our marriage, you must end all contact with (OW), that includes working with her. You must regain my trust and respect. I have made mistakes too and I'm working on making myself a better person.
You were my best friend and I miss what we shared and would like to work on recovering that but you must meet the conditions of no contact with her, agree to marriage counseling and work with me on a plan to restore our relationship. Until that time please respect my wish for no communication between us.
I love you,
me
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You had some judgemental stuff that might turn him off immediately. Try this re-write below. I borrowed from my personal "library" of previous Plan B letter excerpts used with other posters. This letter is very hard for me to write. I have loved you for so long and I can't believe it's come to this, but here we are.
My thoughts I’ve recently expressed to you to convey my love for you and my hope for our family were genuine. Much has happened recently, but even today I still love you and want a chance to repair our relationship and provide a healthy home for our family. I have grown tremendously from these experiences and I ask you to look back over this period and see the changes for yourself. No, I’m not perfect, but I believe I have made significant improvements. [Briefly state the most important thing you’ve changed to correct his complaints] Whatever happens to us, these changes are permanent in me and I am a better person because of them. I feel much better about myself as a person.
You may not know what I have endured because of your decision to separate and because of your relationship with [OW]. I fully realize that these things were just symptoms of pre-existing problems. But all of these problems are fixable. I have worked hard by myself on this. I still love you, but now I find that it is just too painful for me to continue by myself. Seeing and talking to you is just a constant reminder of the pain that I feel. It is not healthy for either me or the girls. Our children, are important to me and knowing that you were a fantastic father has always been a matter of pride to me. We did good with them but now your actions and behavior are causing them pain.
I just cannot see or talk to you and try to be your friend under these conditions any longer - until you are ready to put this behind us permanently and are willing to try to rebuild our family. This will require that you end all contact with (OW) which includes working with her. I am doing this to protect myself from the pain you are causing me with your words and actions. Simply put, I am now separating from you in order to protect myself from the stresses and from further pain and to protect my love for you until you are ready to commit to rebuilding our family. I understand that you may have your own pain and that I may be the source of your pain, but these things are fixable if we are willing to try.
Until you decide to commit to our family I am ending all contact with you. Your mother has agreed to act as a go-between if things regarding the girls or the house need to be handled. You can make arrangements to pick up Liz and she will come out to the car, if she wishes to go with you. I realize contact to resolve legal separation issues may be unavoidable, but I will minimize this and I ask you to do the same.
Separating like this is not my preference - I’d much rather rebuild our relationship. The girls and I are the people who together can help you become happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent reality, here for the long haul, and we have a lot of good memories as a family. Similarly, you can make the all of us very, very happy. I will support any need you have in a non-judgmental way when or if you decide to recommit to our marriage. You can come to me in safety, knowing I will embrace you. Even if you’re not sure, I will understand and provide empathy.
As soon as you are willing to commit to working to save our marriage, I will be willing to talk about our future, and the future of our family. We can build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us all happy. Then, there will never be a need for us to separate again. I have communicated with many other couples who have achieved this and ended up with better relationships than before. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend. I hope you get other suggestions. WAT
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Agree with WAT, there was some disrespectful stuff in your letter. I like his letter; the only suggestion I would make is to condense it down to 3-4 paragraphs. The reason being that less is more with an emotionally detached person, the less sentimentalism, the better.
Have you decided that you ARE going into Plan B? It would be better if you could do Plan A longer, HOWEVER, if he is abusive, it is recommended you go into Plan B sooner.
It is also important that you are going into Plan B for the RIGHT REASONS and that you understand how to do it PROPERLY.
The right approach is to go into Plan B with NO EXPECTATIONS other than the goal of withdrawing yourself completely from the drama. This means that you ARE NOT doing it with any expectations from him; you are not doing it to manipulate him. If that is the reason, then you will be SORELY disppointed, I promise you.
Secondly, Plan B means NO CONTACT. Any contact afterwards, defeats the purpose, because every time you see/speak/email him puts you back to Day 1 of withdrawal from his drama. It also gives him a FIX he needs to continue on in his affair. So, unless you are PREPARED to really GO DARK, then don't do it. And by DARK, I mean no emails, no phone calls, no nothing.
Before you do this, please read up on Plan B in Surviving an Affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Agree with Mel to make it shorter. I provided maybe more than is necessary so you'd have room to edit.
Re-post it for another round.
Ideally, Plan B should be held off until after the legal stuff is situated. But you are clearly needing a break from his rage. Keep in mind that he may not honor your requests. Having the separation document in hand can help in this regard.
WAT
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Personally I like the original letter from IAL. I found nothing disrespectful in the letter at all. I felt it was on point... accurate and clearly stated the conditions for continued relations.
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mk, there are a handful of lovebusters in her letter that need to come out. It needs to read as a love letter rather than a lecture. The idea is to give him as little as possible to avoid making him defensive.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I see it differently. I see it as an honest attempt to right their ship. That's why she gets opinions from all of us. I like the letter as it is. I think a "love lecture" is in order with this guy.
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I found nothing disrespectful in the letter at all. I felt it was on point... accurate and clearly stated the conditions for continued relations. Ahhh grasshopper, but YOU haven't been beaming up to the Mothership! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> OF COURSE it was clear! Just a bit TOO stark for the average alien abductee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> WAT ------------------- To Pampers customer rep: "It says 'for up to 25 pounds.' Isn't that ... kind of a lot of poop?"
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I see where you are coming from... I just think the letter is okay as it stands. This guy has pushed the bounds even for a WP.... it is my belief that a very soft approach here would be a huge mistake. The man is a bully is he needs... along with the "I want to work on this" stuff... the same thing all bullies need.. a slight punch in the snoot. I say the letter should stand as is.
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I see it differently. I see it as an honest attempt to right their ship. That's why she gets opinions from all of us. I like the letter as it is. I think a "love lecture" is in order with this guy. mk, a Plan B letter should not have lovebusters in it. A lecture is a lovebuster. There is a right way and a wrong way. It is the LAST THING that the WS sees before they go dark so it is important to avoid lb's. You might see that differently, but it is a fact. These are just a few examples of disrespectful judgements in the letter: 1. Over the past several months your behavior has become erratic and disrespectful.
2. you have allowed another person to share pieces of you that weren't appropriate for a married man to share with another women.
3.I never wanted a divorce. I thought we were forever. You made these choices without me. I had no say in the matter and you refused counseling, saying it wouldn't work and you left.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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NONE of this is based on fact... it is all a matter of adapting things to indivdual situations. This is not a cookie cutter approach. What you see as disrespectful... I see and have seen as being effective. There are more than a few people on this site... me included... that tried it the easy, soft sell way and saw bad and mixed results. It wasn't until a firmer... what you seem to see as DJ's... approach was taken that results were seen.
You may see the statements as love busters... that is your take on them... you may see them as DJ's... that again is your take... I am not here to debate it with you... merely to offer my opinion regarding a letter to the poster of that letter. I do so based on my experience and on what I read about her story. If you do not agree with what I am saying.. fine... your opinion is certainly valuable... but I stick by what I said.
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mk, those statements ARE lovebusters, and it is not advisable from a MARRIAGE BUILDERS perspective to include a lecture in a Plan B letter. There is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I think she is here to get, not just "opinions," but a Marriage Builders perspective.
If she were just here to get our own PERSONAL opinions, I would tell her to take BULLWHIP and whip him within an inch of his life. But she is not here to get MY PERSONAL OPINION, but direction on how to execute a MB principle.
Believe me, I am not one to mince words or take an easier, softer way, but a Plan B letter should not include lovebusters or lectures, lest it greatly defeat the purpose.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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This is where I always get confused. WHy is telling it how it is a DJ? 1. Over the past several months your behavior has become erratic and disrespectful.
2. have allowed another person to share pieces of you that weren't appropriate for a married man to share with another women. What if a WS continuously has OW over for tea in his home? Is that not disrespectful? I know that I can say, "I am hurt that you bring OW over for tea"...doesn't sound like a DJ to me.....I could also say "I am hurt that you would desrespect me by bringing OW over for tea".....why is that a DJ? I don't think saying "I see your actions as disrespecful" is a DJ. I don't get this part...... I think saying "you are an a$$ for bring OW over for tea" is a DJ (since there is no need for name calling), but saying it is disrespectful doesn't strike me as a DJ. I personally thought the letter could use a little more "love" in it (you do want the guy back after all) but it did not need to get rid of stuff....but that is MHO. Please disregard it as you see fit! Daisy Daisy
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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well, ML, with your way of thinking there would be NO need for a forum... she could read exactly what to put in the letter... read the Harley's stuff and be done with it.
You fail to see that the opinion I suggest is based on MY facts... I have seen others have similar results. But you seem to have a problem with advice being given that differs from yours or the normal approach here advocated by MB.... well... perhaps that doesn't always work (it didn't in my case and quite a few others here too).... so we adapt and adjust and offer our perspective based on that. It is all part of being in a discussion. The Harley's did not come to their conclusions in a vacuum. There surely are exceptions to every rule.... I see this case as being one of them... if you do not, offer your opinion to the poster of this thread and stop debating the matter with me. I have made my position clear... you have done the same... I do not show you any disrespect by thinking it should be handled differently.... nor do I wish any harm for IAL... the advice given is what I consider to be the best approach for this situation.
Last edited by mkeverydaycnt; 03/06/06 05:04 PM.
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mk, I think the point of the forum is to learn MARRIAGE BUILDERS PRINCIPLES. That is the sign on the DOOR, after all. Marriage Builders is a very effective program that has brought marital healing to many, many people and I think that is what IamLost is here to learn.
And one of the principles here is we AVOID LOVEBUSTERS, especially in a Plan B letter. If you are advising her to send a letter that is repleat with lovebusters and lectures, that would be BAD ADVICE, that would harm her position. Her situation is no different than many others we see here every day.
So when you give advice, please remember what people are here for: to learn MARRIAGE BUILDERS PRINCIPLES. Not MelodyLane principles, not WAT priciples, but tried and true MB principles.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Disrespectful Judgments When requests don't get you what you want, and demands don't work either, our instincts and habits often provide us with another stupid and abusive strategy -- disrespectful judgments. Without a doubt, demands are abusive, but disrespectful judgments often make demands seem merciful in comparison. In the final analysis, disrespectful judgments represent an effort to force our spouses to give us what we want in marriage, but it's often cleverly disguised. Instead of making an outright demand, we present our problem as if it were really our spouse's personal shortcoming. We try to "straighten out" our spouse in an effort to get our way. At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want. A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield. In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one spouse wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our spouses, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. That's when we make sizable withdrawals from the Love Bank. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I stand by my view. Please keep the discussion between you and the poster. I am not here to argue with you or to deal with your DJ's.
Last edited by mkeverydaycnt; 03/06/06 05:15 PM.
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I'll give it a shot - Daisy - I know that I can say, "I am hurt that you bring OW over for tea"...doesn't sound like a DJ to me.....I could also say "I am hurt that you would desrespect me by bringing OW over for tea".....why is that a DJ? I don't think those are DJs. IMHO, Using "I feel....." or "I am hurt because...." statements are not DJs. I could be wrong. But "You did this...." or "You aren't that..." are judgemental. The difference is the "I" vs "You". "I feel..." cannot be disputed. "You did...." is assignment. Remember folks, these WSs are not NORMAL! Re-read Rule #1! What you (BS) think is or isn't a love buster or is or isn't a DJ gets filtered through the alien translator. WAT ------------------- Never silence critism from a fool.
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Well, IAL, after some feedback, here, what have you decided to go with? I am not qualified enough to state my opinion on the letter, however, I believe a Plan B letter is definately in order. I wish you the best! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Jennifer
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