What if? this were your wife or husband? My co-worker and his wife found out over the past two weeks that the wife has lymphoma(sorry if I've spelled this wrong!). I don't know all of the details, but a tumor was discovered on her aorta, in the groin area and something was found in her throat.

Up until this, she has been very healthy.

They have two kids - a 3 year old(who was born prematurely and almost died. My co-worker showed me a picture of her with his wedding band slid all the way up her arm when she was born) and an 11 year old.

It does not sound good at all for his wife. This news has really blown me away. My co-worker is a huge family man and loves his wife.

I also recently found out that someone in my industry died last month of brain cancer.

So, as I have been digesting this information it makes me wonder......Life is too short. We have our health today, but perhaps not tomorrow. This is a truth that is there, but we may not think deeply about.

Seize the moment and do your darndest to make it up to the spouse you have betrayed. Don't look back on this time and regret the 3 months, 6 months, or the two years --- however long --- that you spent trying to justify a lie and the time you sepnt away from the person whom you are married to. You might look back and wish that you had done things differently.

What if you found out tomorrow that the person you betrayed had a terminal illness? Would it cut through the fog at all? Would it knock some sense into you? Can you get past your selfish thoughts, humble yourself and admit you have made a mistake?

Life is a gift. Health is a gift.

Just some of my thoughts........

Kim

Kim,

I have wondered those same thoughts many times.....

What if something tragic happened would it phase the WS?

I pray none of us here ever have to find out like that.




Hurting

As an FWW I found this question insensitive and really quite insulting.

I know you didn't mean it to be, but somehow the assumption seems to be that if you are a WS you are inhuman.

I don't know how would anyone would know how they would react to something like that. Even a couple completely untouched by infidelity would be thrown by something like that.

It is extremely well documented that couples who lose a child often go through a marriage break up and if a child is lost violently (through murder) the odds of a marriage surviving are nearly nil.

I imagine the terminal or serious illness of a spouse would put the same strain on a marriage.

So, the answer to your question - people react differently - it may break some people out of the fog, it may send some people further into it.

I, too, find it insulting, though I can't say I'm surprised to see it posted here.

Now this doesn't even begin to compare to the tragedy that Kimberly posted, but I'll offer my experience. I'm an FWW, and a while back, when my H and I were about five or six months into recovery, my H threw his back out. This was a recurrence of a prior injury, but it was worse this time. Hunched over, no more relief from injections, meds, or anything. One day he was laying down on the floor, trying to get comfortable, and all I could do was lay down next to him and put my arms around him, crying, trying to find some way to apologize for what a sh*tty W I had been.
I had never felt so crummy as I did at that moment. He tried to reassure me that it's getting through the hard times that make us stronger. I think it helped a little.

As I said, we were already in recovery - we had committed to that months earlier. I was pretty much de-fogged by then. But I think this cemented it. He had the surgery, I took care of him, he recovered, WE recovered.


Took this out of order, but wanted to point it out. As I posted above, H's back problem was a recurrence of an earlier injury. When it first happened (many yeas pre-A), H acted like a total jerk to me, and I, in turn, returned the favor. LBs kicked around like a hackeysack. It was one of our worst blow-outs of our entire M. So kiwij makes a valid point that even without an A, this can rock the boat big time.

I think we handled this much better post-A than pre-A. Kind of ironic, huh?

KiwiJ,

This doesn't appear to be a jab at FWWs or WSs to me, just some thoughts. However, think about this: If your spouse was diagnosed with Lymphoma today, would you have any regrets concerning your selfish behavior in having an A?

Would you be OK with your behavior during and after your A?

Would you grieve for the time you spent carelessly with OP and stole from S?

There are plenty more questions, but I think you can get the jist of it.

I would not be insulted by this post, but it would cause me to take a deeper look at myself and prepare for any eventuality. As you know life is short, we all have to pay the piper if we choose to dance. You chose a different dance than I, as did my W, but if your S got in an accident today, would you not regret your decisions of the past? Would you not reflect on what you have done, or could have done?

I think if you find this post insulting you probably haven't completely forgiven yourself for your A nor have you forgiven your S for transgressions that brought your marriage to that point.

As far as losing a child and it's affect on a marriage, I believe that is apples and oranges comparing it to an A. Furthermore losing a child to an accident or illness is very different than a WS who "Chose" to have an A.

If you think about how you would react if your S was terminal or had an accident I'm quite sure you would find some unfavorable reactions within yourself. Also it might help you prepare for it, hopefully you will never have to face it.

And NO FWSs are not inhuman, no one feels that way, but active WSs certainly are!

Just my .02

This is almost as insulting as the original post, but maybe my FWS sensitivity meter needs to be recalibrated.

This might amaze some of the BSs here, but truly repentant FWSs are entirely capable of feeling deep regret and grief without ever having to experience the kind of crisis Kimberly described. I was feeling it before my H's back re-injury, and while the event may have intensified the feelings somewhat, they were there before.

And Eagle, even WSs are human. That's why they make bad choices like getting into As... because they're human, and fallible. OTOH, forgiving BSs are superhuman, IMHO, at least my H appears to be.

Geeez. I agree with Kiwi, it is insulting. And GBH -- great points.

How about the other version? What if it were me diagnosed with some awful disease?

Would my XBS regret the years of neglect?

Would he regret the lost opportunities to show he cared?

Would he be sad he wasn't part of the kids childhoods?

Would he be sorry for all the hurtful things he said?

This game can be played both ways...

And the answers to all of those would be YES!

But and this is a big BUT, the BS did not choose to inflict the most destructive path. Yes BSs are guilty as well as WSs in contributing to the degradation of the M, but the WS must accept that they are completely to blame and completely responsible for the A! The BS did not choose the A, and would not choose to inflict that much pain on themselves and the family unit, nor to proceed with the destruction of the family unit, the WS did that and must own that. This is another part of owning the A and accepting the fallout or responsibility for a WSs poor choice in resolving issues. Furthermore unrepentant WSs would be most at risk for fallout from a catastrophy in the family, if they were out of the fog.

My .02

OK. As we all know, there are two sides to everything. I am trying to look at both of them and be fair. I can see how a FWS might find this offensive, but if I read the subject line correctly, this thread is addressed to WS.

My answer to her questions is WS are not usually thinking about what their affairs could lead to in the end. Once I found out about my FWH's A, I thought alot about the what ifs. His A was a long distance one, conducted while he was on business trips. Once he began his affair, he never provided me any means of contacting him. If I or a family member had been involved in a serious accident, we could have died without anyone being able to contact him.

The other side of the coin is trying to imagine how horribly painful it must be to have a WS seriously injured or killed while with the OP and having the BS find out that way.

My FWH is remorseful and we are in recovery and I know with absolute certainty that he still feels that all of the time, energy, and money he spent on OW was a waste of epic proportion.

Who

Lexxy,

You make very valid points it does go both ways.

We all WS'S amd BS'S alike say and do things that are regretable.

It reminds me of a question my WH asked me in Dec. the day before court, now I have no idea why he asked it but he did, he said " BS if I was to tell you I was ill what would you do?" I was stunned by the question but I did answer him honestly and my answer still holds to this day even with all that has happened. I said to him " WH I would stand beside you and be there, I would never leave you in your time of need." Then of course I asked him are you trying to tell me something but he said no I was just asking.

I would hope he would do the same for me but who knows.

I don't think Kim meant this question to hurt anyone. I guess as a BS we try and look for things to understand the thought process of a WS. I know my WH is human and I know he feels the hurt and pain of all this as well. I have seen it in his face and in his actions but for now he still stuffs it down and pretends its not there.

I admire all of you FWS who come here and post and try to help all of us understand and give support to those who need it BS'S and WS'S trying to make their marriages work or just to heal themselves.

Thanks to all of you...

Hurting

KiwiJ, GBH, and Lexxy,

Just how insulting do you think the A was or is for the BS???

For most BSs it is of such enormous proportions they are completely and thoroughly devastated, more so than if the WS had simply keeled over dead. In a lot of cases death of the WS would ahve been a whole lot easier to deal with.

[color:"red"]Do Not take this as I would wish any harm or death on any WS or FWS, I would not want harm to come to anyone, not even OPs, but facts are facts.[/color]

Right Eagle, but none of us are here posting AGAINST you.

And I'm not sure how you are equating us feeling insulted by a post with the pain of an affair. ???

Nobody's saying that you don't have a right to your pain.

I think we're all saying that you can't FORCE regret. And that a life altering event would have impact on EVERYONE not just WS's.

I don't think she meant it to be insulting either. However, I can see how it would be galling given the audience to whom she is speaking. Her INTENDED TARGET is people like her own WS who IS in a fogged out denial and actively causing his family great pain.

However, the folks who are here reading this are NOT. They are FORMER wayward spouses. They have moved past their affairs and faced the consequences bravely, showing great character.[character comes not from being perfect but in how we handle our shortcomings, IMO] They don't deserve to be told "Can you get past your selfish thoughts, humble yourself and admit you have made a mistake?" because they have ALREADY done much more than that.

So, please understand that she probably did not intend this to be targeted towards our own FWS', but rather to an active WS who is leaving a path of destruction a mile wide as we speak. And Kim, please clarify to whom you are speaking because surely you can see how this would be insulting to a FWW.

True, didn't take it that way, but I've wondered about this my self, sorry.

You IMHO feel insulted by the question, from your POV as an FWS you know what you would feel. From a BSs POV we know what we would feel. The intent here as I read it was as a BS I would like some insight into how would you feel and deal with something like this. Kind of like curiosity kills the cat (BS curosity).

Never said anyone did question my pain.

Exactly, not forcing anything, a comment was made, you all were insulted, it wasn't meant IMHO to be insulting, at least I don't think Kim meant it as an insult, just asking for opinions. An A changes the dynamics of a family, I believe if a S is in an accident or is killed unexpectedly either a BS or WS would regret a lot of their actions. I believe Kim just wanted an opinion and certainly got it.

BSs are curious about these things as anyone else might be, but wouldn't necessarily ask the question.

I did not mean to rile you up, just my thoughts. Sorry if I offended you.

you would rather deal with the death of a spouse!!!! come on, you have to be kidding!!! want to ask the kids if they feel the same way about it???

give me a break.

i started out insulted as well. maybe i'm looking for a fight today. but your comment. death would be better than being betrayed is EXTREMELY SELFISH!!!!

as for what hurts more. being betrayed or being neglected. do we really want to try to debate that one out.

just yesterday i thought about starting a post regarding marriage vows. and how neglect is just as serious of a breaking of vows as an affair is.

vows are vows. is there anywhere where it states that the most important vow is fidelity.

i will love and charish you, those are vows too.

i'm not saying one spouse's actions ever justifys the others.

i'm saying neglecting a spouse is breaking a vow too.

go ahead and try to slam me for this one. i'ld rather of been betrayed then neglected.

what is the opposite of love. not hate but indiffence.

that is what neglect is.

i'm not mad at my BH for anything in the past anymore.

past is gone.

and i see his present behavoir is a far cry from the indiffernce he used to always have.

the original post is a very good msg. but it is a msg EVERYONE should hear. all of us can love our spouse better. all of us could of loved our spouses better in the past too. i cant imagine anyone here was the perfect spouse.

just as no one is a perfect human, only Jesus was that.

Wow! get over yourself, read Harley's books they even state death is or would be (maybe percieved as) easier to get over (very loose paraphrase) Sheesh!

I respect your right to your opinion. I have mine. Get over it! I am outa here! Not looking for a fight, just insight, not an attack, just expression of thought.

From Penalty Kill

Kimberly, I'm sorry your H is in such a fogged out state. That must be incredibly hard to deal with.

I am a FWW. I found your question interesting. I can see how some FWS would find it insulting, but I have to say that I did not. (I don't think that there are too many WS reading this forum, however. As ML pointed out, most of the readers are FWS, or WS looking to become FWS at this point.)

In our first counseling session, two days after d-day, the therapist asked my H how he would feel if I were diagnosed with a terminal illness. Would that change his feelings (which were, understandably, see-sawing between love, hate, fear, disgust, revulsion, shock...like any BS) and make him realize how important our relationship was?

Understandably, though the A was long over, my H wasn't ready to see her point at that time, but I think that we all have things we regret deeply. For a FWS, (at least for me) there is *one* thing that comes before anything else. For a BS, there's probably not one thing at the top of the list.

My brother-in-law died of a massive heart attack last year at this time; he was 49. His wife, my SIL, got to find out about his (I believe) multiple infidelities after he died. Talk about adding insult to injury. Kimberly, you've given everyone a good reminder to take each day as a gift and not squander it.

There ya go, eagle, you just managed to elevate this to the top of the "most insulting post" list for FWSs.

So I should have offed myself instead of having an A? I suppose that could have been feasible. I could have jumped in front of a train or perhaps driven my little subcompact into the path of a semi. God knows I felt I had no value to H. I could have even left a note telling him how I knew he'd get over it seeing as how I had no value to him anyway and this sure beats me having an A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Somehow I think my death might have been a wee bit tougher on him, Eagle. Not sure, but juuuuuuust maybe..... Perhaps I ought to ask him tonight.

Thanks to the ghost for the more supportive remarks. After reading Eagle's post I was a little unnerved.

FL is this really how you feel? Betrayed better than neglect? I truly hope you never have to be on the BS side of things, the learning curve is incredibly steep, beware!

As I posted above I would never wish harm or death on anyone not even OP. It is easier though to explain Mommy is with the angels as opposed to Mommy is with OM and will not stop being with OM. Mommy just doesn't love Daddy, so she is going to move out of the house and only see you evry other weekend. Talk about selfish, talk about entitlement, WOW! Ask you H if he would rather you neglect him or have another A, I have a good idea of the answer and it is most likely different than yours.

You can fix neglect, if the other person is willing, once PA has started you can't fix that, once you have given youself to someone else as opposed to trying to bring your S around you have crossed a line that can never be recrossed. Forgiven, yes forgotten, no, learn to live with the fact, maybe, but probably yes.

I have been on the WS side in a previous marriage, I felt I was entitled to whatever I wanted. Now that I'm a BS I can see the damage and feel it, I would much rather be on the WS side, it was a lot easier IMHO. I hope you never become a BS, but based on your post above, I fear it may happen. Good Luck to You!

Divorce is allowed for adultry, I haven't found anything about dovorce being allowed for neglect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Check me on this, Eagle, but I believe abandonment is grounds. As is mental cruelty. Neglect could fit nicely into either of those two categories.