LA -

I am so grateful that you continue to post to me! The acceptance I feel from you is incredible! I feel safe to open myself up and receive whatever will come from it. Yes, this forum is a safe place to do so, and as my confidence builds, I hope to incorporate this into real life.

A light bulb moment - I *just* realized that maybe certain people are brought into our lives to bring us out of our comfort zones and *make* us take a good hard look at our beliefs. Hmmm, could you give me some guidance on how I would go about looking more closely at my beliefs and boundaries? I think I'd like to put them under the microscope and pick them apart
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> !

As to your previous post, you asked

"Are you more honest?"

Yes!

"Your post rings of truthfulness to me. I believe you state your truth without editing, a lot of judgment or hesitation. Is that correct? Were you this honest previously, say, 2.5 years ago?"

Thank you and yes, that is correct! No, I was not this honest back then since I was still living a very reactionary life. This definitely stems from my childhood years. If I wasn't reacting, I was looking into my crystal ball, trying to predict the future and missing what was occuring right in front of me. Guess what? I'm not good at future predictions!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also, I would like to address the "people are replaceable" belief you touched upon previously. Could you expand on what you mean by this?

It's okay that OSHA standards aren't being used, I'm wearing my hard hat anyway

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LA -

I am curious as to how you would interpret the statement:

"You deserve someone better." Made by the ex to me.

ROFL...yes, you are smarter, more honest and funnier than 2.5 years ago. Hard hat required. Work area. Stand back.

LOL

Adorable. Okay, good to know about the huge change to act not react. Would you say you feel more accepted by me because you are more accepting of yourself now, also?

Hmmm. Not dodging the gift you offered...getting to another layer of beliefs...

I think it is the "Seeking Experience and Attention To Detail" thread by reallyconcerned where I chart out the steps to examinging beliefs...there's got to be a book on the subject, right? LOL Can you tell I'm feeling a tad lazy right now...ack. I'm having "I'm sick of repeating myself" moment; me, not you. And words aren't even bubbling up to get me there.

I'll go to the last question...How I would interpret the statement "You deserve someone better" made by your ex to you.

Thank you for putting statements in context and by speakers. Matters to my interpretation.

Have you ever said that to someone when breaking up? My H and I said it to each other a lot...when I said it, it wasn't about him really deserving better, but about me feeling worthless.

DJ, Inc. here...interpretation...just my own:

Your ex was fear-based and hated himself for that. He didn't get the equality of humans, normal human limitations or accept anything about himself except he was defective. He didn't want to prize anything in his life. Being safe from intimacy was in his mind the same as being safe from abandonment. Shorthand was, just being safe.

What he didn't know...everything he saw in you that thrilled him, he had longed for in himself way before he met you--and what he saw in you that angered him, is had already within himself and despised himself. See how inter-reactive humans can be? I bet he was busy with pleasing others as much as originally he was with pleasing you. He pleased from fear. The less he feared you, the less he put you as a priority to please. He most likely felt acceptance from you over time, safer--on your end can feel like you're taken for granted.

How would this truth feel now?

How many times have you heard someone say, "I feel stupid, worthless," and someone else rush in and say, "Don't feel that way! You are not..." and argue their feelings? We teach our children (and were taught) all the can't have feelings or beliefs...though we have them anyway. No wonder reality isn't a human right.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

More importantly...can you now see that was his belief and not yours and why?

Segues directly into if everyone is equal, why do we treat people as replaceable? We search for the right one to marry, to be with; yet we are all equally wonderfully made by God with our own journeys. Why is the choice of mate more important than making ourselves a great mate?

No bashing...pure wonderment. I was a replacing gal...thought the onus of my life lay in my choices...oh, wait...it does. However, I made it about who I chose, not seeing the million choices I made each day; though I sure did see my partner's clearly!!

I don't believe people are replaceable. I believe, call me nuts, but since Love is a Choice, anyone, all those in your life, were in your life or will be are the right ones. My choice to remain in my marriage is fully mine...I fear, but will not choose from fear; feel shame and guilt at times, now I choose to seperate those, see where they are coming from in me, and clearly state to others when they are boldly attempting to hand me theirs. Sorry, I'm full. Thank you, anyway.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Joyously living, D...how you interpret that statement is what matters...and it will have a lot of weight for you and influence if you define yourself through others, rather than yourself.

LA

Hard hat is on, earplugs aren't in 'cuz I want to hear you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"Would you say you feel more accepted by me because you are more accepting of yourself now, also?"

No, I wouldn't. I'm not there right now.

I must say that as I'm *trying* not to be reactionary, it is a struggle for me. I am in tune to how others feel and *their* moods affect me. As a result, I react. I know it's not about me and it affects me at the same time. Work in progress!


"Have you ever said that to someone when breaking up?"

No, I never have said that. Thanks for your interpretation. That is also what I suspected, yet I had no idea what to do with that information. I felt that those issues were beyond what I could handle. In other words, those were his issues that he needed to deal with. All I could do was be me. This statement occured relatively early in our relationship.

You stated, "He most likely felt acceptance from you over time, safer--on your end can feel like you're taken for granted." Yes! This is exactly how I felt!!

"More importantly...can you now see that was his belief and not yours and why?"

Yes. I must admit that most of my frustration during our relationship dealt with past issues, both his and mine.

He would say that he was certain ways because of incidents that had occured when he was a kid. I would repsond by saying, "yes, I can see that. And you're an adult now, you can choose differently." That's a huge DJ, isn't it? *sigh*

I do really want to learn from this experience.

I have printed a bunch of stuff from RC's thread. I've got lots to do!

Honestly, I left because I became a shell of who I was. I didn't recognize myself anymore and couldn't see through the haze. I didn't know what else to do. Once I wasn't looking at him and all that he was or was not doing, I was left looking at me. *whew* It's overwhelming at times!

"We teach our children (and were taught) all the can't have feelings or beliefs...though we have them anyway. No wonder reality isn't a human right."

yeah. For me, I didn't feel heard. My defense is if you don't hear me, fine, I'll do it myself and I won't rely or depend on YOU. I did take it personally. Still learning to detach from the outcome.

All for now....one step at a time.

A story that really struck a cord in me:

A man is on a journey. He comes to a river. He determines that in order to cross the river, he must build a raft. So he aquires all the tools and supplies needed to build the raft. He spends lots of time, energy, and effort to do so. He successfully crosses the river.

The next obstacle in his path is a mountain. He must climb the mountain in order to continue on his journey. He attempts to climb the mountain while carrying the raft. He doesn't get very far. He doesn't want to leave the raft behind since he put so much of his time and effort into building it and the raft aided him in the first part of his journey. He finally realizes that in order for him to continue, he must leave the raft behind. He needs to learn new skills in order to climb the mountain.



I can identify with this so much! I feel that I've developed, worked hard, and was able to be successful at the first part of my journey. This forum is helping me develop new tools to help me climb the mountain.

Sufism?

How are you with accepting what you chose and why? I'm hearing acceptance all through out your posts and mine.

Love means acceptance to you. I must ask how you are demonstrating this to yourself?

Might be a two-word set in the message...

deserving faith
deserving acceptance
faithfully accepting
accepting faith...

LA

"How are you with accepting what you chose and why?"

When I take off the first layer, I find that I'm not accepting. For example - A friend of mine was complaining that her mother didn't provide day care for her children. She was upset with her mom for not doing what she expected, even though her mom will take the kids whenever she asks, just not on a consistant basis.

I thought she was selfish for expecting that since I no longer have my mom and my future kids will never have time with their maternal grandma. How dare she talk to me about what her mom will or won't do when I don't ever have that has an option!

How do I accept her *truth*, her *feelings* without judging her?

Does that make any sense whatsoever? LA, I'm trying.

Hi LA, hope you are still checking in!

"How are you with accepting what you chose and why?"

Most of my past choices have been a survival mechanism that I set up in order to protect myself. I felt I had to get a college education in order to have a good job so that if I ever needed to be the breadwinner, I would be able to do so. (My mom had no job skills. After my dad passed away, we were able to live off what he left behind). I wanted to have the confidence that I know that I will be able to provide for myself.

Again, with choices, I had a check list. College education, check. Good, secure job, check. Travelled, check. Met a great guy (the ex), check. Start family, oops, I choose the wrong guy to do that with. And that's where I get stuck. I now question my ability to allow a man into my life.

I had *thought* that I had dealt with the death of my parents. Guess what? I hadn't. I took that out on my ex. I would say "Don't you appreciate what you have?" underneath that was 'cuz I don't have it anymore. I had no idea, at the time, that I was projecting onto him. His family = his choice on whether he appreciated them or not. I get it now.

"I must ask how you are demonstrating this to yourself?"

Exercise. Vitamins. Massages. Trying different activities. Feeling the wind. Watching the ripples in the water. Baths. 600 thread count sheets <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Saying "thank you" when receiving a compliment.

I'm here...lost your thread, but found it again!

Okay...you see where you don't accept others' opinions for their lives and that it doesn't make sense to empath it through yours, right? Not real empathy, simple judgment.

Glad you get that. Because you have given yourself permission to do this, it cuts both ways...that means you give permission to judge yourself, filtering your experience through others, also. A true catch-22 you can stop by changing your permissions and beliefs.

Dang...have to leave work now, so I will continue in a little while. Very happy to see you and sorry I lost ya!

LA

I'm back...workus interruptus...

Here are beliefs I found in your post:

"Most of my past choices have been a survival mechanism that I set up in order to protect myself."

You believe you can protect yourself...

Tell me from what.

And if you check off all your list, what will getting all those things (you know I don't mean "things") protect you from?

"I had *thought* that I had dealt with the death of my parents. Guess what? I hadn't." I hear you! I am shocked how long it really takes to mourn a parent...very surprising to me, also.

I think this:
"Start family, oops, I choose the wrong guy to do that with."
and this
"I now question my ability to allow a man into my life." are related.

I asked you how you are demonstrating acceptance of self and you said:

"Exercise. Vitamins. Massages. Trying different activities. Feeling the wind. Watching the ripples in the water. Baths. 600 thread count sheets . Saying "thank you" when receiving a compliment." All these show great self caring. Where does the acceptance part come in? Help me to see it (I'm not saying it isn't there), please.

If I was too vague in answering your question about how do you stop judging others to your standards (based on your experience), let me know. I've been told I'm cryptic.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Missed ya!

LA

"Glad you get that. Because you have given yourself permission to do this, it cuts both ways...that means you give permission to judge yourself, filtering your experience through others, also. A true catch-22 you can stop by changing your permissions and beliefs."

"filtering your experience through others" - WOW! That sentiment hit home big time!!!!


"You believe you can protect yourself...

Tell me from what."

As I reread my post, I find it interesting that I used the word protect...must of subliminally slipped out - now it's caught. I wanted to make sure I would have my own financial abilities (i.e. not have to rely on others). The "others" I had to rely on weren't so reliable. Maybe I protect myself since those that should have protected me as a child, didn't. Hmmmmm.


"And if you check off all your list, what will getting all those things (you know I don't mean "things") protect you from?"

Honestly, the first part of my list was to insure that I could take care of myself if I was the sole supporter, husband leaves, either by choice or by death. The second part of my list was about not being alone.

"All these show great self caring. Where does the acceptance part come in? Help me to see it (I'm not saying it isn't there), please."

The acceptance part comes in by my actions to myself. Through these actions and items, I am taking care of me because I'm worth it (isn't that a commercial?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I grew up watching a mom take care of her son (and myself) before taking care of herself. When she passed, I took on that role. Then, I would get involved with other people's issues, and again, neglect myself. I see now that I was avoiding me. And, thanks to reading many of your posts, I can see how what I thought was helpful, was definitely hurtful. Hurtful to those I was trying to help and hurtful to myself because I didn't honor myself enough to put me first.

A phrase that resonates with me is "You're worthy because you are alive."

"I think this:
"Start family, oops, I choose the wrong guy to do that with."
and this
"I now question my ability to allow a man into my life." are related."

I would like to explore this further.

Glad to see you too!!!

LA? (slight nudge)