This is not a poll but I really need to know what my MB-family thinks of this one. Please let me know if I am completely out of line, or if I am reasonable here:

My STBDH is in very regular contact with his exW via IM/Chat. It's not on a daily basis, but it is very regular (sometimes a couple times a day--sometimes 3X a week), and when she talks to him, she tells him details about her life, shares her feelings, talks to him about stuff going on her life other than the kids, and she tells him that "he is her best friend." Well, her idea of "friendship" is what broke up their marriage in the first place!! Furthermore, if I do happen to walk into a room and he is chatting with her, he puts the screen down and will not let me read it--and I feel like that is being secretive and not open.

Anyway, I am NOT comfortable with this kind of chatting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I believe he should only speak to her in a business-like manner and only about things involving the kids such as schedules, activities, drop-off/pick-up, etc. I also believe that he should tell her right out that he is not her friend, it is not appropriate to be "friends" with another woman when he's about to marry me, and stop talking about all these other topics. It is my belief that he needs to break any and all ties with her on a personal level, and create ties with me. Finally, I believe that when he does need to communicate with the exW, it should be openly and without "secrets." Thus, I believe that this kind of close, personal chatting is the pre-cursor to infidelity.

No matter how many times I have spoken to him about this, all he does is disagree with some facts about what was said in the IM/Chat and ignore the real issue! This time, when I brought it up, he even said, "You're just responding to triggers from your past. I'm not the one being unfaithful. It's in your head."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> OH NO, you did not just say that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

So I would like to hear your wisdom, MB-er's. I believe boundaries are being crossed--he doesn't. What do you think?? Is this appropriate? Isn't this the way that infidelity starts...by "just being friends"? I could be way off here, but my instinct says otherwise--so let me have the truth!



FNCJ

Wow.

I can see your red flags from here, girl.

Hiding the screen is never okay, for me.

There is certainly enough there to give you some pause about marrying this guy. At least until you come to an agreement on your views of being "just friends" with the opposite sex. And hiding the screen and saying "it's all in your head" are pretty big red flags. Sorry CJ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

That flag is so huge I can see it way up here too!

There is absolutely no way I would tolerate secrecy like that.
And the behaviour and a response like he gave you would inspire me to install a keystroke logger IMMEDIATELY.

All wedding planning would be on hold until I felt comfortable with the nature of their "talking."

I agree with the others here - stop marriage talk and preperations until this issues' dealt with.

CJ,
I´m sorry you have to face a situation like that. I agree that your fiance´s behavior is a red flag indeed and it´s not just your past making you think that.

I´d like to ask, though: Is your fiance familiar with MB concepts and does he believe in them? If not, how willing is he to learn about them? I know that people who don´t know and understand MB principles and the concept of healthy boundaries can sometimes not see when they start on the dangerous path towards an affair. They often can´t see, either, that an emotional affair is in fact an affair since affair to them means physical intimacy outside a R. They might probably feel that their behavior is inappropriate and damaging but since they don´t see where they crossed the socially accepted lines of behavior, they might rather get stubborn in their belief they´re not doing anything wrong.

This doesn´t change the fact that his behavior IS damaging to your R.

I know first hand how hard it can be to try and introduce MB concepts to someone who´s convinced you´re only doing that to point out he´s wrong. Do you think he´d be open to learn about MB?

I wish you the best.

Nora

[color:"green"]While my BF is very good friends with his ex wife, things have changed since he met me.

Gradually he has talked to her by phone less as I become more important and she less important.

He is a little more resentful of how she interferes with his life when she blows into town and stays at her house - especially since she started having children and his house becomes chaotic.

I don't think that he would keep secrets from me, and he would perhaps try to keep his secrets if he had them, but not if I insisted.

Your stbdh's reactions were that he tried to distract you from the issue by settling on an issue he could argue and then he counter attacked when confronted. Not good.

Your reaction " OH NO, you did not just say that!" is very good - you keep your boundaries girl!

Honesty is a biggie with me and I would not be able to live with secretiveness.

V. [/color]

CJ,

Your Fiance's behavior mirrors the behavior of my Ex when he was having his affair with a family friend. I went through the same thing, they used to chat & he would hide the screen from me. He gave me the same story how they were just friends and so on.

After going through this chaos with Ex, this would be a deal breaker for me if my fiance were to behave like that. But that's me.

Best of luck to you.

This isn't good. The being friends isn't necessarily bad without the secretiveness. As GoFromHere asked, how much does your STBDH know about MB principles, specifically POJA?

Maybe if both of you are willing to come 1/2 way... you allow more than "business-like" communication and he agree to be open about their interactions. He needs to respect your needs, especially in light of your past, without feeling that you're placing disrespectful demands on him.

I'm so sorry you're facing this, again. I've always related to you and cheered for your relationship success since our WH's had so many (unpleasant) similarities...

FNCJ,

Before I learned of MB, I had guy friends and would have been protective of the friendships because I did not understand the danger in such relationships or how it appears to someone on the outside. (I was the BS not the WS, but still, I was blind to how a friendship can turn to EA and then PA until I started reading here.) So, your fiance may be completely faithful and just doesn't fully understand how this looks and how it's making you feel.

Similar to other posters, I suggest that you take a small step back and come to an agreement with your fiance as to what types of behavior are acceptable and unacceptable in your relationship. The MB guidelines were fantastic in providing relationship tools that I could understand & apply in various situations. The MB behaviors like POJA and RadHonesty will cover more than just this issue in your relationship. Once you have agreement on those behaviors/standards, then you can apply them to this situation.

hope it all works out for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As someone who is very good friends w/ her ex, and has just about daily contact relating to our DD or just mundane stuff, thisis not good!

I never hide my communication from my current BF. Why would I? Absolutely nothing going on w/ my ex is why! And him hiding the IM chats reeks of guilt, whether he is or not, he has to know that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I don't get this....he hasn't shown them to you right? I agree w/ SunnyVa here I'd also be concerned w/ the way he's not taking your feelings into consideration. Has he tried to reassure you? Offered to show you the IM/Chats?

Hugs
DW

This buff_u ESTJ can see the red flags from here, and we don't always pick up on this relationship stuff. Sometimes our hide is too thick compared to the butterfly and we miss things.

I'm really sorry you have encountered this in your path.

T

Okay, chiming in from the Southern US, can see the HUGE RED FLAG Flying too.

My husband was reading over my shoulder and said he can see it too.

I'm going to send you an e-mail...so be watching for it

I somehow believe that two people can become real friends after divorce. It happens, not so often but still it does.
And for me, it is proper, especially if they have kids.

But, to hide from you, STBW?, what he talks with her...??

Even if we assume he has really no other R with her than pure friendship, this show disrespect, no consideration of your feelings... not sharing his life with you...
And "I'm not the one being unfaithful. It's in your head"... - hm, this is even worse...

Sorry
But better now to see and to solve if you can, than once you are marreid.

I suggest you review the MB principals. Is your STBDH following them? It sounds like he is not.

What happened to Radical Honesty? Flipping the computer screen down when you walk into the room is very suspicious.

He is behaving like my ex wife did while she was carrying on her affair.

I don't like it at all.

Listen to your gut..Woman's intution...whatever...

You posted here becoz this situation is making you uncomfortable you are looking for us to tell you what he's doing is wrong - when in fact, you don't need us to tell you that...Your gut is speaking loud and clear....


It would be one thing if he was very open about this with you - he's hiding his conversations w/her from you - WHY???? Because he's saying or she's saying something that disrespects you or your relationship. Just be careful that if you blow this up that he doesn't find a way to hide his IM/conversations better...

If an XH of mine called or even a guy friend (and I have many guy friends that WH is aware of) in front of my WH I wouldn't have anything to hide - unless I was bad mouthing WH/flirting/etc.

Set the boundary - if he won't abide by it - then you know what you have to do...better now than later..

Hugs

I think everyone is in agreement.

Its my belief, that if he thinks he's doing nothing wrong and you confront him - it will drive the communication further underground.

I, personally, would snoop first. I'd put a keystroke logger on the computer PRONTO.

IF I saw evidence of flirting or any inappropriateness -- I would make a decision to end the engagement OR follow the marriage builders program which would include NO CONTACT for him with his X (since they have kids, this route would be difficult.)

If I didn't see evidence of flirting or inappropriateness, I would approach fiance with how destructive secrecy is to relationships, how important it is for you to be in agreement on this issue.

I just strongly suspect that since he feels so "justified" and that he's not "wrong"; that almost any approach will just drive his activity underground. Thats why I would put my snooping into gear *first*.

I don't like the snooping angle. It just seems like another form of "hiding" things to me. How would you like it?

Me, I just don't type anything I wouldn't want my hubby to see. I wouldn't bother showing him these responses. Just tell him, I'm not comfortable with you hiding things from me. If there IS nothing to hide, then DON'T. I'd want passwords for email and chat, history left intact, etc.

I wish I had been way off on my first reaction to your post, but I can see by this thread I seem to be in the majority. There is a need for a boundary for Radical Honesty. Please discuss it with him. Now is better than later.

((CJ))
It's definitely not 'in your head' so don't buy into that!

So now that you've heard these unanimous opinions, what are you going to do? Do you have a plan? How can we support you?

XP, I don't "like" it either, I just think its necessary.

based on this:


I think they are past the "nicely requested" kind of discussion. I think she's had that talk and got the "none of your business" kind of answer.

That puts my radar up immediately. I would want to know what I'm dealing with before I make any more nice requests for honesty and openness. I think her initial requests have been met with a "thats your problem" kind of attitude.