On Monday, I emailed Dr. Harley regarding my situation about exposing a past affair to the former OM's wife.

There has been some discussion lately on another thread about exposing to the OP's spouse after an affair has been over for several years. In my situation, this OM's W doesn't know of the affair (to my knowledge), and by what others have told me based on Dr. Harley's belief, it was recommended by posters on this board that "I personally" should expose the affair to this woman even though the affair has been over for 2 years, and there is no threat of any contact from this OM.

On Monday, I emailed Dr. Harley and my email was read on his radio program, and he gave advice for my situation. I would like to share this for others that may be in my situation and just don't know if you should expose a past affair that is over and done with to the OP's spouse. I had to listen closely to the program as so much was said, so if anyone else heard the radio program Monday, please tell me if I missed something.

Here is what I remember:
Dr. Harley's wife, Joyce, actually read my email. From what Joyce (Mrs. Harley) said....she seemed to think right away that this affair is OVER and this man is no threat to me. She felt that because my husband and I are working on our marriage, should I call this woman? I had worded the reason for telling the OM's wife (in my email) was to make amends....not just for exposing to her to the affair.

Dr. Harley then said that he always does recommend exposing an affair to all parties involved and ESPECIALLY if there was physical contact, and in my case there was. The reason he said he recommended exposing was because of possible STD's, and that the OM's wife could be tested and protect herself, etc. Then, Mrs. Harley spoke up right away and said...that she(me) did not mention STD's in her email so it must NOT be an issue. She seemed to be pointing that out to Dr. Harley as a reason for NOT telling the OM's wife.

Then, she asked Dr. Harley, "So you would recommend that she call this woman?" He said no. I would not want her to risk any further contact with this OM. I recommend that she talk this over with her husband and leave it to her husband with what he feels should be done. If her husband feels that this OM's wife needs to know, then I recommend that her husband call this OM's wife and inform her of the past affair.

He NEVER said that absolutely my husband NEEDS to call her. He never said the reason my husband needs to call her was to make amends. The only purpose for the call was so that the OM's W would be protected of STD's ...which there are none. He gave me no other reasons, based on what I wrote in my email.

I hope that Dr. Harley gives me a written reply to my email, but I haven't received one yet nor a response if he would or that they have transcripts of the radio program.

I told my husband about my email to Dr. Harley and that he answered it on the radio program. My husband does not feel that we need to contact this woman and tell her of an affair that has been over for 2 years.

I felt that I needed to share this information with all here.

2BNormal, I don't believe for a minute that the ONLY reason that Dr. Harley believes the woman should be told is because of the STD's. [nor did you mention this singular qualifier in your original post] I think it is one of the MOST PERTINENT reasons, though. If you read his articles and listen to him regularly, he gives MANY, MANY MORE reasons than that, so I think you have misunderstood him if you think that he thinks exposure should ONLY TAKE PLACE *IF* there is a possibility of STD's.

What Dr Harley said is that this woman "needs to be told," and it would be preferable if your H told her. I sort of doubt he said tell her ONLY IF your H agrees, but to hopefully gain his agreement.

And secondly, you do owe this woman an amends, NOT because Dr. Harley said or didn't say you did, but because you harmed the woman. You SLEPT WITH her husband. This is the basis for simple human decency and the foundation of civilized society. Just the fact that you have to ASK someone about this is disconcerting. What in the world do you teach your own children to do when they harm someone?

I can't say I am surprised that you aren't going to tell this woman what you have done; given your endless rationalizations and excuses. But I am very sad for her, she will not have the opportunity to repair her marriage from the damage you have helped caused, the same opportunity you were afforded.

ML -
I'm not surprised by your response. Did you hear the radio program? This is how he answered my question to my situation. No, I never ever mentioned STD's in my original post or my email to Dr. Harley. He is the one who said it in reply to my email as a reason that this woman should know.

And, YES, Dr. Harley, DID say that MY HUSBAND should make the decision based on what he feels needs to be done. I heard that VERY CLEAR.

2BNormal, somehow I don't think Dr Harley did an ABOUT FACE on the issue of exposure just for your sake and says that it should ONLY be done IF there is a possibility of STDs. [especially in light of two very recent phone calls where he said the OP spouse should always be notified and exposures outside of that should be POJAd.] How convenient for you, huh?

And I am sure he did want your H involved in the decision, since he had to make the call, but don't believe for a minute he made the exposure contingent on that fact. He said the woman "needs to be told." It sounds like you just heard what you WANTED to hear because it was clear from your endless rationalizations that you didn't want to expose anyway. Oh well......

ML -

Oh well ML...this is what I heard and you sure don't seem to like it and you sure are going to try to twist around what I HEARD!

He VERY SPECIFICALLY said that HE DID NOT WANT ME TO CALL THIS OM's WIFE! HE WAS VERY ADAMENT ABOUT THAT! He VERY SPECIFICALLY said that I NEED TO DISCUSS THIS WITH MY HUSBAND and THAT MY HUSBAND NEEDS TO MAKE THE DECISION BASED ON WHAT HE FEELS.

What part of that don't you get??? I heard it...as I asked you earlier, did you?

Of course your H has to make the decision to call IF HE IS GOING TO MAKE THE CALL. That does not mean that if he WON'T MAKE THE CALL that the OMW is simply blown off. What part of "SHE NEEDS TO BE TOLD" do you NOT GET??

He never said "ONLY IF" there are STD's or "ONLY IF" your BS agrees to this. That would be contrary to his views, yet you have SPUN it that way. Believe me, I have heard his views many times on this and I am more apt to believe that you are spinning the facts than believe he has done an AMAZING ABOUT FACE since I called just last week.

Read the very words you admit he said again: "Dr. Harley then said that he always does recommend exposing an affair to all parties involved"

What part of ALWAYS do you not get?

ML -
My husband is NOT going to call this woman. He doesn't want to drop a bomb on her and doesn't feel that it's his responsibility to do so. Please don't try to infer that we are insensitive people and that we don't want to do what's right. My husband is very intelligent and wise and a strong Christian man. What you believe is right and what we believe is right are obviously 2 different issues. There is no point for you and I to continue arguing over something that we do not agree on.

Please drop this issue on my thread. Thank you.

Yes, he made this statement. But, this statement does not say that he recommends the OW or the OW's spouse to make the call. We feel strongly that the responsiblity lies with the OM.

2BNormal, I think you have made it very clear that you don't feel responsible for this woman at all and had no intention whatsoever of doing the right thing [hence your spinning of Dr Harley's opinion]. And that is fine, but please don't expect anyone to accept your reasons or believe that you are not insensitive and callous, because the facts say quite otherwise.

Of course you do. It's not your problem, right? All you did was sleep with her H, it's not like you were married to him or something. And if the OM doesn't tell her, oh well.

One might also suggest that you DO have responsibility for your OWN behavior. You have a responsibility for what YOU DID to the OMW. The OM did not have an affair alone. You BOTH have a responsibility to tell the woman.

Dr. Harley never said you didn't have a responsibility, only that YOU should not personally CALL in order to avoid recontact. More rationalizations.

I suppose if your neighbor's bookkeeper was embezzling money from him, it's not your responsibility, but only the bookkeepers' responsibility, right? It's not your problem, right?

ML - I asked you to stop and to stop inferring that my husband and I are insensitive and callous. I really can't believe that you have such nerve to say that to someone you don't even know. I wouldn't say that to you just because you don't agree with me.

I posted my exact email that I sent to Dr. Harley on a Christian forum. Everyone that responded said that I should NOT contact this woman. I only seem to be getting this response to contact this former OM's wife from YOU based on your phone call to Dr. Harley the other week. How do I know you didn't twist his words around as you are saying that I am twisting his words around to fit what I want?

Please drop it ML...please quit trying to get your last word in to prove something.

Thank you.

I heard ML's call to Dr Harley. She did not twist the words- he said BOTH betrayed spouses needed to know. You said it in yours as well that she needed to know.

Seems like he told both of you the betrayed spouse should be told.

If you aren't going to to tell her and your husband isn't going to tell her, who is?

Do you think her husband is?

And I can't believe that you have the GALL to come here and try to tell us you ARE NOT insensitive and callous when you have just told us it is "not your responsibility" to inform the victim of your affair. Especially after Dr. Harley told you that he ALWAYS recommends exposure to the injured parties. You may not like it, but that, my friend, IS the definition of insensitivity, callousness and a whole lot more.

And yes, you did twist Dr Harley's words around. You added on self serving qualifiers that he NEVER INTENDED in order to justify NOT informing this woman of what you have done. As Dr. Harley clearly stated, according to you:


ALWAYS.

Well, if it makes ya feel any better 2BN, this is almost exactly the advice I'd given you back when you posed this question before. Given the length of time since the A has been over, and your H's desire that this be dropped, I can't see that this would do YOUR marriage one bit of good. Quite the contrary...having 2 years of NC and then breaking that for any reason makes no sense to me.

Had you decided to inform OMW SHORTLY AFTER it ended, that would have been one thing. But two years later...no, I don't think that it would be the right thing to do.

Yes, she does 'have a right to know her H cheated'. But...you and your H have a right to maintain your marriage as well. Telling her NOW would likely make her feel that you were telling her now simply out of revenge (and nothing personal, but I still suspect that this IS part of the reasons for this to have come up) and nothing more.

If the man IS a player...he's still doing so, and she's likely caught him by now. If he's NOT...maybe he's learned his lesson and has already taken steps to fix his issues. But, two years later, this issue is NOT YOURS to deal with.



ML- Since there seems to be some dispute over what was actually said on this broadcast, why don't you (or someone) request transcripts of his show and post them here? It seems that 2BN has posted what she heard...how can we dispute what she heard from that show if we don't have any contrary information? I know what we've read on this site...but at the same time we've seen SH give what APPEARS to be contradictory advice to posters here on occasion...when he modifies his approach to deal with specific situations. This doesn't surprise me, nor would it surprise me to learn he's done so in this instance either. I accept 2BN's word on what she heard...where's the difficulty in that?
Just my thoughts.

Mel, Dr Harley recommended 2BNormal to talk this over with her H and leave it to her H with what he feels should be done. He said if her H feels that this OM's wife needs to know, that her H call this OM's wife and inform her of the past affair. He clearly advised her against calling this OM’s W herself, because it will risk contact with OM.

Now, the problem is, her H does not agree to contact the OM’s W and he is not going to do it. So, taking that into consideration, what do you suggest 2BNormal to do? Go against Dr Harley’s advice, against her H’s feelings and contacting the OM’s W anyway?

2BNormal, I do think you are sensitive and trying to do the right thing here – otherwise you wouldn’t have posted about it and seeking answers and opinions from posters and Dr Harley himself.

ML -
These are YOUR BELIEFS. Not mine. Not my husband's. This may be Dr. Harley's site, but as I asked the same question to other Christians, I receieved the same response from them as my husband and I believe.

There ARE other views besides yours ML and there are other views besides Dr. Harley's. And contrary to what you may believe, ML is not always right in every situation.

PLEASE stop this nonsense.

To Owl and Suzet,
Thank you for your kind response to me. My intent was to share what Dr. Harley advised me for my particular situation. I have requested a written response to my email and a transcript of the program. I don't know if they will be provided.

That is doubtful given that most people have a "it's not my damn problem" attitude as WE SEE HERE. This is WHY affairs go on unimpeded, because we have a culture of moral cowards who believe "it's not my problem" even when they were the ones who DID the damage.

What is the old saying? Evil thrives when good men stand silent?

Owl, the time lapse does not matter, the OP's spouse needs to be informed, as Dr. Harley has clearly stated. He has never said that a time lapse changes that, and didn't say that here. Notifying the other BS is not harmful to one's marriage, nor is her "motivation" relevent. [even so, do we only do the right thing when it is EASY? good grief!] What is relevant is that this woman is told pertinent facts about her OWN life to which she has a right.

Now, you may not agree with that, but that is Dr. Harley's opinion and since he is the leading expert in the US, I think he might know what he is talking about.

I simply don't accept 2BNormal's "interpretation" of what Dr. Harley said, because it is contradictory to his views on exposure and even contradicts her OWN quotes of his remarks. So I am much more likely to believe that it is SHE who has this wrong than Dr. Harley.[he has no motive, she does] I don't believe for a minute he added the qualifiers to his advice that she is so eager to add. She did that herself.

2B, I would suggest you and your H give Dr. Harley a call directly to talk this situation over. From what I gathered from your transcript of the radio show, and what I've read of Dr. Harley...this is the most important point you wrote...

Dr. Harley then said that he always does recommend exposing an affair to all parties involved and ESPECIALLY if there was physical contact, and in my case there was.

Throwing the reason for contacting the OMW as a warning aobut possible STD's is just ONE of the reasons to inform them...there are a number of other reasons...so their M can progress in total honesty, to warn OMW of the past behavior so she can be on the lookout for any new behavior, etc...

Yes, it is up to your BH to make the contact...and if I were you, I would talk with him again about making this call... But I'm not you.

I'm going to throw something out here you may not like, but by not calling the OMW, this seems like youi want to hold onto the fantasy of the A, to keep it secret. And you don't want to own up to your responsibility of the A and have one more person hate you...