WAT...please define this sentence. You lost me. (sorry...being a dumb blonde today).

Okay...tell me that I'm sucked into his (gullable) words.

I was reflecting on my conversation with WH the night he moved out. We were talking about counseling, and while in the past he has said our marriage is "not fixible", his tune changed and said "I haven't thrown in the towel". I was crying at the time, and I said to him "Please don't go to counseling just to pity me, or help ME, please only do this if you think we have a chance and you want to try and salvage our marriage". His response was "I wouldn't be going to counseling if I didn't think we had a chance...I'd be gone". Okay, I know I'm trying to read into this, because he is going to make little progress (or, should I say "we" won't) while he is still having his affair. But in my interview with the marriage counselor on the phone, she told me that more than likely we will meet as a couple the first session, then individually for future meetings. She realizes that WH has deep-rooted issues (multi-affairs) and he needs individual counseling to address this.

But...my insecurities are saying that, while I begged him not to do this just to string me along, his ulterior motive is to "not" make him look like a bad guy. In other words, go to the counseling to "show" that he tried (even though we all know you can't make progress with the affair still ongoing), and to justify in his mind that he at least wasn't such a bad guy (even though it was half-hearted).

All I know is that I shouldn't deny him the help that he needs. If he continues the counseling, then hopefully there will be a positive outcome. But, we all know it's hard to look at yourself in the mirror and address the uglies while you're still in mid-stroke of your bad behaviour.

An alcoholic can have all the intentions of WANTING to quit, but he can't go to an AA meeting with a bottle of gin in hand.

Am I right? Or way off base?

Finally, when talking about counseling at the same time we're talking about him moving in with OW, I point blank said: "OW can't possibly be supportive of our intentions to go through counseling". WHs response was: "she knows we're going to counseling and has said that if we work things out, she will back out of the picture". Is this absurd? Is this really possible? Can he be having an affair with someone that is willing to continue an affair with my WH with the footnote that she's will to let him go if we make it?? Am I being that gullable to believe this?? Tell me that there is no way that she knows he's agreed to counseling and this is just another string, string, string..

The best thing to do is watch your WH's actions, and pay no attention to his words. He is completely in the fog. Individual counseling might help, but I doubt marriage counseling will.

OW is talking just like they all do - she'll back out of the picture - how noble of her.

xHale:

Please get to an attorney immediately Monday morning and do what you have to do to protect your finances. If you don't, you are liable to wake up one morning and discover that's he draining your bank account dry to finance his affair.

If nothing else, open an account just for yourself that he cannot access and put half (or more) the joint funds in it.

You have got to protect yourself and your child here. HE is not going to lift a finger to protect you. Are you really okay with your family's money being spent on your husband's girlfriend?

So what if his parents live out of state? CALL THEM AND GIVE THEM YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY. *Every* WS is furious when they are exposed. What's your point? This is the best weapon you have to bust up their affair. If you are going to slink around with your tail between your legs, terrified to say or do anything to protect your own family because "WH wouldn't like it and might get mad at me," you have NO hope of saving your family.

Do NOT be afraid of his anger. He's counting on you being too frightened of losing even his crumbs to do anything. You CANNOT fight this affair this way.

Exposing his nasty, destructive affair is not "lovebusting." It's protecting your family. He's not going to protect it any more, so that leaves you. What will you do?

***Can he be having an affair with someone that is willing to continue an affair with my WH with the footnote that she's will to let him go if we make it?? Am I being that gullable to believe this??***

Yes. And he's counting on it. As Believer said -- don't pay one whit of attention to anything he SAYS. Only watch what he ACTUALLY DOES.

***Tell me that there is no way that she knows he's agreed to counseling and this is just another string, string, string...***

As I said in my earlier post - yes, this is nothing but string, string, string.

Now go pick up the phone and call WH's parents! It doesn't matter what they say -- it only matters that you did YOUR part and Exposed their son's destructive behavior to them.

You are NOT being "vindictive." You are protecting your family. Stop letting WH scare you. He's counting on it. He can't keep his double life without it.
Mulan

Mulan, you misunderstood what I meant. I was trying to say that telling his family is not an option because he doesn't have family. He alienated from his mother 10 years ago. He hasn't talked to any cousins or aunts/uncles in that amount of time either, and frankly, nobody cares what WH does. That's what I meant --

To give you the picture, our wedding 6 years ago consisted of 100% Bride guests. Not one Groom family member or friend. He's a lone soul. Doesn't have a best friend, or any friends for that matter. Doesn't seem real...but this is the fact. Believe me, if there were someone to expose this to, I would.

As for the finances, I already have a seperate checking account and I have already deposited "my share" into it from the joint account. I plan to start paying bills from this account because if I try to keep a balance in our joint account, and mail out checks, I can't prevent WH from withdrawing those funds and causing an overdraft. I was waiting to see if he will stop his direct deposit. That's a direct action to cutting me off. I plan to talk to him on Monday about how we will handle the bills, no LBs, just calm rational tones. We'll see...I know that healthy marriages suffer over finances, let alone what it can do to a marriage that is already broken.

*******Handling Today*********

As I said in my earlier post, WH is due to come over later today to help with the business. I plan to shower him with Plan A, making sure not to "sugar coat" it. I plan to be upbeat, positive, concerned, loving...the whole 9 yards. Question: WH and I have always hugged when we see each other or departing. Lately, it has been me that has held out my arms and he willingly enters them. If I don't do this, I'm wondering if this will be a sign of rejection? So, my question is, should I still invite him for a hug? Or, holding back...will that play into the "aloof" part?

I don't want this to be about a game, but sometimes one's emotions run rampit and it is obvious that I am NOT thinking cleary. This roller coaster has my head in a spin and I'm trying to take the reigns to make it stop...one...step...at...a...time.

Rambling again....but does this make sense:

But part of Plan A is to bust up the affair. In implementing the usual Plan A items (love, support, etc...), WH has stated that he will be over to help with the business each of the nights that it is required to close, which is Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday nights. I say...let him. If he follows through, this will put a strain on his relationship with OW. She will wonder where he is (you can bet he's not going to tell the OW that he's coming over 3 times a week!), and she will begin to have doubts that he is working late.

This happened with his first affair many years ago. He moved out, but kept coming back several times a week. OW couldn't stand the "sharing", threw a temper tantrum, and he walked out on OW.

Seem like a good footnote to Plan A? Drive a wedge between WH and OW?

Again, my ultimate goal is not just to get my WH back, but I do know that the counseling will be fruitless, or have less impact while he is living his fantasy.

***Again, my ultimate goal is not just to get my WH back***

Exactly right. As Orchid often says, you do not want a WH back. You want your husband back. There is a very big difference.

And good on you for protecting your finanace. Just remember not to place any faith in what he *says* he's going to do. Only believe what he *actually does.*
Mulan

****NEED SUPPORT

WH told me he would be over tonight to help with our business (we need to close on Sundays). He never set a time. I'm starting to worry that he will break his promise.

Background in case no one wants to read the mess above: WH just moved out Friday night and left me with our 5 and 3 y.o. He told me he'd call me on Saturday -- but according to bank records, he spent the day shopping for his new rental that he moved into with OW. No phone call. I don't mean to be a wall flower, but with the separation so new you'd think he'd at least hold up to the bargain in the beginning.

Now I'm sitting here, desperately trying to hold back calling him on his cell phone to find out if he is coming over. PLEASE...someone tell me that is the wrong thing to do (I'll look like I'm leaning on him).

He has plans to come over on Monday to pack up the rest of his things.

I have to stay the course. Stay calm. No LBs (outburst about how much he's hurting me).

I need support....this is hurting so damn much.

You'd think he'd want to come over and see his children, at least.

xHale,
I understand your situation and how hard it is to not call.
I am often in the same predicament myself, and have had
to talk myself out of calling WH, because I do feel like
it makes me whiney, or too dependent on him.

If you have to call regarding the business, I'd keep it
short and very business-like, no LB's, and you end the
call, rather than waiting for him to talk more or end it.
If you can avoid calling, that'd be even better.
If he shows up, you can act like you haven't even noticed
the time or wondered about him coming, while calm, friendly courteous, and confident.

My WH is currently out, supposedly installing new towel bars
and fixtures at a house he is renovating, but I know he's
actually doing something with WH, so I can well understand
your hurt and anxiety. I'm in a Plan "A" also, but WH is
moving out soon, and I'll be going to a Plan "B".
It does get easier with time, and is less stressful having
them out of the house than home, when you know they are
carrying on an A.
My situation briefly listed below
Slammed

Me= BS, 42
WH= 38
Married 8 years, together 11. No kids (WH has 2 daughters
from previous relationships 13, 6, litte contact)
2001- WH has internet "fling" of about 1 month, followed
by EA with older, recently widowed woman for about 6 mos.
Seperated 1 month
2005- WH back on the internet pretending to be single,
wealthy businessman. Begins long-distance A with trashy
OW, flies to Vegas to meet her, then she moves to our town.
Aug 2005-WH moves out, will not tell me where he is staying
but denies A.
Oct 2005- OW calls me, exposes whole A and lies by WH.
She also calls WH's XGF, telling her about the A, so now
his 13 year old daughter knows about it. Eventually word
gets to his Mom, although she doesn't know the full story.
OW kicks WH out of her house so he rents a room. Their
break up is short lived, and they begin seeing each other
again.
Dec 2005- WH calls in middle of night, Christmas Eve
has been arrested for DUI. As he has no friends to call,
called me for help. OW is with him and needs ride to her
car. Unpleasant conversation with her. In days after, WH
is very depressed and anxious, and finally feels bad enough
to seek help with Dr., counselor and psychiatrist.
Is diagnosed as having bipolar disorder and begins therapy
and medication. Says he wants to work on us, loves me, is
sorry for all that happened, is committed to marriage but
has continued contact with OW by phone.
Feb 06
WH moves home, continues therapy and meds things seem to
be improving, although very slow. Constant cals to our
house and WH's cell phone by OW, and she has very nasty
conversation and leaves ugly messages on our machine.
OW sends me package with all WH's cards and letters to her
as well as disgusting photos and note.
Celebrated 8th anniversary with card from WH that says "Thanks for being there for me and believing in our marriage". WH suggests weekend trip, so we go to Las Vegas and have a good time.
Two days later, WH has 180degree turn around, is back to
pursuing OW, and not intersted in me, us, or marriage.
March 06
WH still at home, but things strained, as he lies about
what he's doing and contact with OW. Goes on ski weekend,
spends some nights at her house, won't talk about things,
and plans to move out again soon.

Nope, they don't even bother to see their children when in the throes of an affair, especially when they just moved in together.

Don't call him. Stay calm, no angry outbursts. It is not easy, but is what works.

Thank you. I needed someone to tell me to leave the phone alone. I want so much to call him. I just can't believe that, only 2 days after leaving me, he's not living up to his "knight in shining armor" commitment (he swore he would be there for me and the kids).

I'm so pathetic to have believed...

Stay Calm.
Stay the Course.
Believe that God has a bigger and better plan for me.

And I asked this earlier but no one had an opinion.

WH and I always, always hugged each other when greeting or saying goodbye. Lately, I will admit that I've had to initiate the hug (held out my arms}, but WH reciprocates and hugs me for long periods.

(If) he shows up tonight, or tomorrow, do I still intiate the hug? This will show that I haven't pulled away, but I just don't know what the concensus says about showing this type of affection.

Hang out here, and don't do what you FEEL like doing.

Did you get your work done?

***Hang out here, and don't do what you FEEL like doing.***

What I feel like doing, as pathetic as it seems, is running into his arms. To feel his arms wrap around me and hug me hard as he always did.

***Did you get your work done? ***

I got little work done today. I've been reading this message board most of the day. I don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing. I think I'm spending more time than I should "planning". I need to break away.

I've left the work behind that we do together. Again, I don't know if he will show. It's wrenching my heart in two. Only 48 hours since he left and he's already breaking promises.

And he has two young children here (5 and 3) and it's the first time he's been away from them in over a year!! (But that was a business trip, out of his control). He's never spent this much time away from them. This is where I begin to resent him...for ignoring his own children to satisfy his own selfish needs.

Prepare for lots of broken promises - that is one of the specialties of these WS's.

I think the hugging thing is fine, if you still feel like hugging him.

hi xHale - I think I've caught up.

The "fishing" expedition sounds like it was exactly that. Twyla is working for OW. Be very wary of anything she said. Be cautious of further communication - assume everything you say will get back to OW. This can be used to your advantage as you've already figured out. But also assume that anything you say will also get to your husband.


This is very disturbing to me. If I understand it correctly, your H has successfully prevented OW's H from contacting you and vice versa. If correct this prevents continuing exposure. At least OW's H knows who his wife is having an affair with. When you get your attorney, this is something you should get cleared up if your understanding is incorrect.

xHale - I sense you're doing what a lot of other "new" BSs do - you're trying to analyze every little thing and you're trying to make sense of it all. This will drive you nuts. You cannot react to every current in the river.

If the joint marriage counseling takes place, please get your mind set that no progress should be expected.

WAT

WAT...you are absolutely correct! I spend every minute, every hour, analyzing everything, trying to make sense of everything, planning my next "move", and trying to anticipate's WH's next move. I know it has to STOP! I have just never been through something like this before, and if it wasn't for the "tough love" that I've been getting from you (but you've been very patient too) and others on this board, I think I'd be in a rubber room by now.


EXACTLY what I thought! Assuming that Twyla is an operative for the OW or the OWs husband, either way, what I feed Twyla will get back to my WH. You don't know how hard I bit my tongue (or fingers from typing), trying not to reveal to Twyla what promises my WH has made to me. If this info got back to the OW, you can bet she will not be happy, a fight will insue with my WH and so forth. While I keep reminding myself that, in Plan A, it's my intentions to break up the A, I have to be careful how I go about.

The "light of day", as I've stated in previous postings is not available to me. WH has been aliented (or vice versa) from his family for over 10 years. Exposure to them will mean nothing -- they wouldn't act on the news any differently than should I tell them that the sun will shine today.

If you recall, we had a joint marriage counseling session with a shrink that sat back and watched us go at each other as if he was enjoying watching a train wreck. We were waiting for him to get out some popcorn and sit back and enjoy the show! Short of handing us baseball bats, the Dr. just sat there and let us go at each other's throats. WH and I both agreed that going back to him was fruitless, unless we both wanted premature deaths (I'm saying this all in jest as we did not yell or scream or threaten each other, just a lot of tears and finger pointing that was so unproductive). In my interview for a marriage counselor, I found a therapist who's goal is to "save" marriages, not send people packing in different directions. Her principals state that you came together with love, and built a life together, you just need some tools to repair the issues at hand. She has already told me that we will meet as a couple the first session, and most likely be seen individually thereafter. This, in itself, gives me hope because my WH has much deeper issues than just his infidelities (and the repeativeness of them). WH is welcoming these sessions...which is encouraging.

Not sure if I mentioned this, but the night that WH moved out I had said to him "you are constantly seeking, and your soul is searching, but you will never find happiness this way". I nearly fell over when WH looked at me and agreed. This is the first step in recovery, just as an alocoholic admits he has a drinking problem. However, WH still has that proverbial "drink" still in his hand (OW), but admission is the first step and I think the counseling is at least some hope to recovery. It is my prayer that this counseling will not show that my WH is "wrong", but get to the root of his behavior, not to mention his mood swings (which may be diagnosed as depression which only compounds all of our issues).

WH came over last night as promised to help with the business...and is coming over this morning to pack more things. The "visit" last night was so promising! He was loving, and hugged me several times and even told me that he loved me several times. We joked, laughed, and he complimented me twice about how good I looked (I used WAT's suggestion to use my womanly charms, and I did the whole make-up thing and was wearing a nice outfit). I could tell he missed me (and even said he did).

I will post more about this meeting later, but I have to get back to work for a little while. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pinning on all his compliments and postive mood as an indicator that he is coming back, but positive and open communication is very important if we are to work on this together.

The new counselor sounds OK. We'll hope for the best.


Just imagine what's going through your H's head!

Speaking of rubber rooms -

Word origin of "wayward" as used in wayward spouse:

way - the route or path to somewhere

ward - loonie bin

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
WAT

Bringing this back up for xHale - just wondering how you're doing.
Mulan