AGG is having issues about GF wanting kids -- I'm having issues with BF NOT wanting kids, and I happen to have 3 of them.

I've been with BF for 6 months. Love him dearly, we get along wonderfully. Its been great.

Last night we had a conversation regarding The Future. (This is someone I can see myself with for the rest of time....)

However. He has (strong) reservations about living with teenagers. **And I have 3 of them.**

So, needless to say, this is putting big brakes on anything changing about our relationship for oh say about 8 years!

So I'm trying to decide whether this changes things for me or not.

For further background; my kids are 20, 17, and 12. All 3 live with me. I don't think the 20 year old is an issue -- he's self-sufficient, works, good, nice kid with a good attitude. My 17 year old has been trouble (lately) She's testing boundries, rules, EVERYTHING. Basically a decent girl who thinks she wants to experiment with drinking, drugs , and staying out past curfew. My 12 year old is a little super athlete, keeps me running and busy, and is a little overprotective of his mom.

Where BF's issues come from is living with his brother and helping to raise his 2 nephews for the past 10+ years. Those boys were difficult -- probably along the lines of my 17 year old but to a much greater extent.

So, I don't really know what this means to me yet. I don't see a reason to end things; other than if I think I need to get married in the next few years.

So, do I? I don't know. Maybe there is someone out there equally great who DOESN'T have an issue with teenagers.

Maybe this is a good thing, because my kids can remain as my #1 priority.

Maybe its a bad thing, cuz I want someone who will be my partner in ALL things, not just the easy things.

Give me thoughts!

I am pressed for time right now, but will come back and comment later.

All I want to say now is that this issue is not at all "opposite" of mine with G <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. In reality, I have already seen that while she adores my kids, she seems to have trouble understanding how much they mean to me.

We have had a couple of chats on who should come first, my partner or my kids, and she did not seem to agree with me that it is two separate things, and I can love both without picking sides.

And once, when I stated that I missed my kids on my week without them, she got upset because she felt that "she should be enough" for me. Also, when we discussed the thought of me and her going to my son's baseball games on weekends when he is with his mom, she felt that I was choosing him over her, which again made no sense to me. So, just goes to show that she does not see things the same way as I do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

I think Faith1 has the best view of this, and has posted very eloquently about how non-parents view parents, and how it is important to be "matched up" that way in terms of expectations. I feel that this may still be an issue for me and G, and I am not surprised that it might be for you too, Lexxxy. As Faith says, it is often difficult for parents and non-parents to "get" each other.

Anyway, we may not be all that opposite in this sense...

I'll post more later!

AGG

Lexxy,

My first thought is why does he have to be a partner with you as far as your kids go?

Do you have to live together before they are grown?

Why not keep him out of the parenting picture and just keep him as your BF?

Is it a husband and stepfather to your kids you want or is it a partner/friend/lover who supports you but does it from a distance, and developes a friendship type relationship with your kids. "a great friend and host (or maybe companion on occasion when it involves your kids" ?

Six months is not that long, and sometimes things have to develop naturally over a course of years, especially with kids your age.

parents and non parents might work with no kids in the house. . . or, if the non parent had a good role model as a child to understand the importance of parental leadership. . . and can imitate a parental position. . .

but i would have to agree with parents and non parents with children would be a tad difficult, especially starting at 40.

AGG, tell us about G's FOO and her teenager years. . . i would like to hear her version of her life. . . i assume her parents would be a different version, of course.

the other option, and there always is another option, is that you two date while you have kids. . . and you make your dating life separate from your family life. . . until the kids are self sufficient teenagers. . .

BTW, that is what I am doing, keeping the dating life and the family life completely separate until the kids are in college when they will be independent enough to accept sharing me with someone else.. . my son voiced his agreement with that instantly. . . and they need someone around to help them understand and deal with their crazy mom that i can't involve anyone else in my life until they are in college, and on their own. . .

just another viewpoint. . . in other words, is a marriage for you necessary right now or in the near future, when waiting and dating for a long time, might work out better?

wiftty

wiftty

AGG -- I'm anxious to hear your thoughts, although some of your comments already resonate with me. I do not miss a game, an activity, a concert, a conference -- regardless of whose "parenting" time it belongs to. And my X is the same way. We are both there -- in nearly all circumstances. And because we both have the same philosophy, neither our 17 year old or our 12 year old is ever without a parent at their events.

Weaver -- I don't look for him to fill any certain role, either with me or my kids. I guess its just the 8 years thats bugging me. That I have to agree that it would be 8 years before we could consider moving any further in our relationship. That seems like a really long time to me.
He's already started developing a friendship with my kids; particularily the older ones. (I'm more protective of the younger one; I rarely introduce him to anyone I date -- even my current BF has only been around him a handful of times...)

I think BF is really great with kids in general. And I know for a fact he really enjoys kids (nieces, nephews, and children of friends) Maybe I'm being hyper-sensitive about him liking or not liking my kids. ??

Wiffty -- gosh, I have never thought of myself as being in a big rush for anything. But 8 years? That we wouldn't even consider marriage until I am almost 50 years old? Why even bother at that point (?)....its hard for me to even imagine myself at that age, let alone be contemplating a marriage.

I find myself more and more willing to just be on my own.
And this lastest "thing" makes me just feel more isolated.
I feel like I am alone. I'm doing pretty good "alone", and just let relationships come in and out of my life. Its so much easier to just let them go.

oh gosh....more later.....

Wow, this hits close to home. I'd like to discuss this some more, as this has been an issue for all my past childless GF's... I'll be curious how your BFs viewed your sense of commitment to your kids. I'll post more tomorrow, I need to run off for the evening.

AGG

Lexxy,
Why is this just now coming up? I find that a little strange, and maybe I've missed something...
I'm childless. I look at dating a guy with kids as a package deal. There is no jealousy. IMO, his kids SHOULD come first. *I* am not their mother. If I were, I'd say me, but since there is a D, I would say to both men and women their kids should come first. Make sense?

The reason I'm asking why this is just now coming up is because if I'm looking at someone as a possible date, let alone relationship, I want to know the status-does he have kids, and if so, how old? (I really don't want to date someone with young children). No matter what, if there is a child involved, it's part of the package of that man.
My friend just got married to a man who has no children. He had to accept my friend and her daughter as a set-one doesn't come without the other. Neither of you can live without each other and you should NEVER be asked NOT to!

I also don't understand the jealousy thing. That's immature if you ask me. Insecure as well.

No matter what happens with BF, your kids should and ALWAYS be YOUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY! You chose to have them... you must follow through until they are raised. BF should respect that! If he doesn't, I would hope you WILL find someone better.
I guess my main point is, he knew you had kids before getting involved, it should not be an issue. There is no seperating here. Your kids are a part of you and he needs to step up, or step off!

Thoughts from a single childless woman.

Ah, Drita... you should have been the mom...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lexxy,
I also wanted to add... you said it is easier to go it alone. I don't know if that has to do with your kids. Again, being single. I'm finding myself less tolerant of men and relationships. I'm good, things are fine being single. I wonder if that's just an age thing (a positive thing, if you ask me!), I guess I wanted to point out that I feel that way lately and have no kids, so maybe it's just you being okay with you...?
Don't get me wrong-if that "one" came along-fabulous, but I'm pretty content with things the way they are. It might be a "sign" too. If it's that easy to let him go, is he REALLY the one you can see yourself with? I'd think not!
Just some more thoughts for you...!

Thanks Drita -- I always love your comments.

I want to point out that BF is VERY respectful of my position as mom. And there is no jealousy whatsoever.

I admire his approach actually -- he's far more patient than I am. In fact, I'm kinda proud of myself that we've been together for 6 months and this is the first "future" conversation we've had -- I usually "have to know" much sooner, and all along the way.

gotta run to a meeting....more later!

Lexxy,

"In fact, I'm kinda proud of myself that we've been together for 6 months and this is the first "future" conversation we've had -- I usually "have to know" much sooner, and all along the way."

I'm the same way. In fact it's been 17 months for me and I'm at the point now where I'm ready to have the talk.

Ok....back with more on Drita's comments and an update.

Its almost like I am taking stock of "where we're at" since we hit the 6 month mark. Are we on the same page? Are we heading the same direction?

And based on how we interact and feel about each other, I would have said yes, everything is good. BUT, when he threw out the "not living under the same roof as teenagers" I jumped to the conclusion that meant waiting until my youngest was grown and gone.

We've had a further conversation, in which he clarified that now is too soon (I agree wholeheartedly) and that he wants the kids to be comfortable with him, used to him, and he doesn't want to interfere with my time with them.

So, its probably not an 8 year time frame. But its also not a 2 year timeframe either. Somewhere in between there.
And that seems fine to me. I feel better anyway.

When I was still in the mode of thinking that 8 years seems like a lifetime, I began thinking of my alternatives. And I started thinking less of us as a "couple" and more of myself on my own. It just doesn't scare me to be on my own. I have been for a long time already. If this doens't work out with my BF, I just have this underlying confidence that I'll be fine anyway.

A relationship just doesn't have the power to devastate me like it did in my teens or twenties. And I think I've done enough dating to know that the next one is right around the corner -- there's just not a shortage of men I could date if I wanted to.

AGG -- current BF doesn't even question my dedication to being at games or events. But PREVIOUS BF's did not get it at all. They thought it was "weird" that for example my XH and I would both go to an out of town hockey tournament. Both get hotel rooms, both go to all the games, both go out with the team for dinner/pizza or whatever. It seems natural to me. I figured they felt threatened that I was spending time around my XH (not the case, we can be at the same event and not even interact...)

Just want you to know I'm reading... and thinking. Not sure what you're looking for from us. You seem ok with everything. I guess you're just sorta thinking through the whole thing?

My biggest issue with xBF was that it was WAY TOO SOON from losing his W. She had just passed away 3 months before we met. They were all still grieving, and he had NOT learned how to be a parent. He had always been the bread-winner, and not a very active parent. Soooo... throw ME into the mix and it wasn't very good. We loved each other, and supported each other, but we couldn't work through the kid-issues. They (13 & 15 when we started dating - dated 2 and 1/2 years) were TOO rebellious and disrepectful, and he didn't know how to handle it, and it wasn't my place, and I couldn't handle the stress. Yes, my expectations (for schedules, respect, behavior, ummmm cleanliness, ummmm sanity <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />, etc) probably tend to be a little too high. So it was a bad mix. I learned that I do love kids, but need a better balance. I can lower my expectations a bit, but would do better dating a parent with a little more structure.

Seeing the perspectives here about keeping the dating life separate from the kids lives... well... I think that's what we tried... somewhat. And well, I know we couldn't do that for 5 or more years until they were grown. Whenever we tried that, the kids felt alienated. Very hard to balance. He was the ONLY parent (no shared custody or weekends off), and so... he had to be at all functions, and if we wanted to be together for birthdays, holidays, vacations, etc., (my family or his) it was all of us. Also, the youngest was very needy due to grieving his mother, and that made our date-times VERY stressful (lots of phone calls, and he would "punish" J later for going on a date).

Sooo... not sure what I'm telling you here. I think it's too early to know anything. You haven't described any red flags. Letsee... what I needed from J was good parenting, and not try to put it on me. He showed me plenty of attention, and I had a good enough self-esteem, so I never felt non-priority. I also needed him to listen and respect my input, even if he chose to not follow it (he was the parent), and to listen to my fears and feelings, and to tell me HIS fears and feelings, and for us to work through them together. I think if you do that, you'll be fine.

P.S. we were posting at the same time. So I'll read that and see if anything needs to be added.

Thanks Faith --
Yeah, at first I was a little disappointed at the 8 year thought. Wasn't sure that was workable for me, and yet I guess I'm not sure what *exactly* would be workable.

I've tried a couple different ways with my kids. I've had boyfriends that they never met, and that had complications.
And I've introduced them too soon and that had complications. I've not dated at all for times. Seems like no matter how you handle things someone in the picture is not completely happy.

BF is important enough to me that I really wanted this to work right. I want us all to be happy.

Well, Lexxxy - I think I would keep dating him, and date some others too. No big hurry to make a decision right now.

When I met my WH, we both had teens, and worried about the logistics of living in one big huge house. Also we had mixed sexes, and they were about the same age. We decided to get married, and he and his kids remained in his home, and my kids and I remained in mine.

When the kids were old enough to be independent, and were in college, they moved in together in my home, and I moved in with my husband. It worked out very well.

Lexxxy,

Gotta tell ya girl, you got it under control. Trust yourself. You have a good head on your shoulders. You are a great mom. You got it goin' on gurl!

I just have to say...isn't it just so different to know that no matter what, you can make it? I don't know when it happened, but I'm sure glad it did. I wish it would have happened sooner for me, but it sure has saved me some heartache recently.

Keep us posted, go with the flow. Trust yourself. It sounds good to me!

I wish all childless women had Drita's wise outlook... I don't seem to be able to find them.

I dated one woman who loved kids in general, and loved my kids, but ended up feeling "neglected" when I wanted to go to my kids' soccer games on their weekends with their mom. Even though she was welcome to come with me...

Even now, dating G, I am sensing a similar problem. We talked about it at length, and she seems hung up on this concept that "the couple comes first". In general, I understand that concept, but more in the sense of not letting kids manipulate the relationship between the adults. That is fine.

But, she keeps talking about her parents, who apparently have a wonderful relationship, and she tells me that if one of her parents had to choose between their spouse and G, they would choose the spouse. And that is how she wants us to be. The example she chose is that if one of the "kids" asked the parents to come visit, but one of the parents did not want to, then the other parent would not go either. Of course, in this case we are talking about "kids" who are all close to 40, so it's way different than caring for 9 and 10 yo kids.

Besides, as others here said, it is totally different in a blended family situation. Expecting the step parent to "come first" over the kids will build resentment in the kids faster than they can say "boo". So, I am puzzled by G's "jealousy" of my devotion to my kids.

She said a number of times that she wants the kind of relationship where she can be confident that just like her parents, I would chose her over my kids. In so many words I told her that that will never happen. And I told her that just because I became a part-time dad due to my divorce, I did not become a part-time parent, and since I would never miss an opportunity to go to my kids' games when I was married, why would I do stop going to those now? She sort of agreed, by added something about it being OK as long as it wasn't EVERY game. Hmmm. My son's baseball season is just starting, so we'll see where we end up with this.

Anyway, I just find it odd that someone who loves kids so much simply does not "get" how special the parent/child bond is. Especially because when we met, she said that my devotion to my kids was one of the big factors that attracted her to me... So why the jealousy? Anyway, I am not sure that this issue has been put to bed for us at all... time will tell.

As for you, Lexxxy, I am glad you feel better after the discussion, but I still don't quite understand where in the "more than 2 but less than 8 years" this will fall. Are you really willing to "date" someone for 4, 5,6 years? Frankly, I am surprised by the number of people here who I see willing to do that; I guess I am more wired to get married. But, to each their own, and I certainly understand how much easier it is to be in a relationship when the kids are not in the picture all the time.

AGG

This might be a good topic for another thread -- #1 priority: Children or Marriage.

As far as my own sitch, I am very very content with BF. We really have a great relationship. I have never had such an easy time getting along with someone! And everyday he does some little thing that just melts me.

AGG: I know the vagueness of somewhere between 2 - 8 might not work for a lot of people. But in my own mind I had decided that I wouldn't consider marriage before my 17 year old had graduated. That was my choice even prior to BF being in the picture. So 2 years is fine for me. Now 8 years is stretching that way past my tolerance.

But since BF has told me that sooner than 8 works for him too, I think we're back on the same page -- and I feel good about that.
I'm sure this isn't the last of the status checks. I think its just my personality that I need to "know" where we're at. Not just with BF, but in previous relationships too. I think thats a result of being neglected in my marriage. I won't let things coast along for long anymore.

I've raised children and I still am somewhat hesistant to step into a situation where there are children at home full time. It's not so much about liking or not liking children. Some of its about the reality of having to integrate that many more people into each other's lives on a daily basis.

Plus, I'm 51 years old. My exWS and I had (supposedly!) been looking forward to moving into the stage of our lives where we could be more "we" focused. Those plans sort of blew apart when he had an affair with a 21 year old. (He was 47 at the time.) She got pregnant, and they are now the parents of a 3 1/2 year old son who has Downs Syndrome.

I prefer to date someone that is a parent because I do think they are more aware of some of the priorities and commitments that are involved with parenting...even when our "children" are adults!. I think it is extra hard stepping into a family with teens. Teens are at a developmental stage where they are working on moving away from the family unit. They would be working on separation and individuation issues..becoming their own adult person. In divorce, the intact family moves away from each other! So, a teen is trying to become an independent adult, while redefining and dealing with the loss of an intact family. How can s/he work at separation while at the same time trying to manage connecting with the new family/stp. family/single parent arrangements? Teen years can be difficult enough without this added dynamic.

In some ways though, having teens in a divorce situation isn't all bad! Just when you think you can't stand another moment of their adolescent acting out...they head off to spend time with their other parent(s)..ahhhhhhh break time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />Of course the key is to have good communication with the other parent so you don't get played by your kids!

My brother likes children. In fact, he teaches elementary physical education...and loves it. But he made a decision that he would never have any children. He had been very emotionally and sometimes physically abused by our father. He was so concerned that he might repeat that behavior with a child of his, that he didn't ever want to take the risk of that happening. I think it was a good choice because he still carries a lot of emotional wounds.

As embarassing as it can be to admit, both I and my best friend don't like to date guys who have daughters at home. We do get jealous. We don't want to share the attention. We know it triggers past unresolved issues about our relationships with our fathers. As immature as it may seem, we finally came out with it with each other one day. At least we're honest about it...not proud...but honest! (Funny thing is, she got together with a guy who had 4 daughters at home full time! He was the ex husband of the OW of her WS!)

Having stated all these preferences....I always leave the door open for the Universe to step in with a better plan than I had in mind!

Lexxy,

is it that you have a difficult time dealing with the uncertainty of the future? many people think that they have control over the future, but only small bits of it and only for small lengths of time. . .

I guess the difference between those that can date for 8 years, and those that can't, is the amount of independence that one can accept. . . or that one has a goal of getting re married, and the other has the goal of waiting until the time is right.

What i don't understand is that if you find someone that is compatible, but the timing is not right, why dissolve the relationship when the timing can be altered? or postponed?

if kids are the biggest threat to a second marriage, why not wait to avoid the biggest threat, and give the second marriage the best chance possible?

just some of my thoughts, since i have about 4 more years to go before I am willing to move to my GF's location. . . to see what can really happen. .

wiftty