Nor was I. I wasn't even dating, so obviously not spouse hunting.


Same here. Once I met G, I wanted to get to know her more.


<screeching brakes sound> Whoa... This is where wiftty is trying to take us to task <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. You don't know that your BF has all the qualities you want in a partner, not yet. In fact, the very fact that he does not want marriage now shows you that he does NOT have all those qualities.

What you should be saying is that you THOUGHT that he had all the qualities you wanted, based on what you knew then. But you didn't know everything, did you? So, you were making some assumptions (even if based on what he told you) and hoping that they would be proven right, instead of finding things out over time, because, ahem, the future is uncertain <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Anyway, as you know, I don't buy wiftty's arguments, because he still has not been able to explain how anyone can ever pick a spouse if the future is uncertain; I think his approach only works as long as people are willing to be freeloaders, not buyers. But that's a whole separate topic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I don't think that most of us here got divorced because we were "spouse shopping" when we got married. In fact, I wasn't even looking when I met my wife. We met, we dated, we fell in love, we got married. Just like in the movies, if that makes wiftty happy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

The reason most of us are divorced is because we did not pick our partners well. Nothing to do with spouse shopping or the future is uncertain. We simply didn't know how to pick.

Now, we have hopefully learned much more about compatibility, personalities, ENs, etc etc, and can pick better. So, if I come across someone with whom I feel I am compatible, I see nothing wrong with dating that person and pondering marriage with them. As long as things keep going well, of course. And if not, we'll part. Hey, the future is uncertain.

AGG

lol...you got me AGG...

You're right -- I THOUGHT he had ALL of the qualities, now I realize he only has most....

Because I don't feel that I was "spouse-hunting, if things with L and I come to an end, I would most likely return to a situation like last year...dating a lot with nothing serious in mind. But then I think, why end things if thats the alternative? I suppose I haven't really decided what I want, so I'm just kinda hangin.

Someone made a movie about me???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

PS
Now I'm definitely gonna check that movie out!!

Sure does AGG! I'm woman enough to admit it. It was a complete byproduct of my divorce and the injury I sustained b/c of infidelity.

Well maybe, but not for me.....my commitmentphobia only applied to romantic relationships. And AGG, the future IS uncertain, but that doesn't mean that the way you are approaching things is wrong either. You don't strike me as the "que sera sera" type anyway....you think and analyze too much <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I agree 100%. But the fact that I had a "que sera" attitude didn't mean that I was less willing/able to make commitments and be tied to them, I just didn't enter into my relationship w/ that as the end goal....To me, being in an exclusive, monogomous relationship w/ my BF was THE commitment....it just looked different than your version. Make sense?

I couldn't agree w/ this more! EXACTLY! As it worked out FOR ME, BF and I were both Freeloaders and it was a beautiful thing! What's even cooler? We are now both becoming Renters....key being we are moving thru these phases together and I think that was facilitated by our "que sera sera" mentality in the beginning. Oh and him breaking up w/ me and us being apart for 4 mo's might have helped that along too, but that's another thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

That's simply awesome! I have approached dating post divorce exacly the same way - I was NOT getting married again, I could take care of myself, had a house, good job, blah, blah......dating with absolutely no expectations. I've been with my current beau for almost a year now (who would have thunk it?) and I still don't have any expectations....works well for the relationship because both of us really enjoy each other's company, neither one of us feels any pressure to make any concrete, spoken commitments of "forever" - but funny how that works, neither of us has dated anyone else since we've met each other, we spend whatever free time we have with one another and enjoy every minute of that time. This has been the most "normal" and "grown up" relationship I've ever had - and I'm almost 45 years old - he's 49. Do I think we'll get married? Don't know, not thinking about that. If he asked me would I say yes? Still don't know. Do I care if he asks? Not right now. Will I want him to ask in the future? Don't know. It's beautiful, no thinking/talking about the future for me right now, I just want to "be".

Absolutely! I don't think that *I* was saying that there was anything wrong with just dating, if that's what both people wanted to do. My issue was when a certain someone started preaching that my pondering whether a person I am dating is "marriage material" is a "dangerous game". BS, IMO, and I don't mean "Betrayed Spouse" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I agree with and support your relationship approach 100%, and I am glad you feel the same way about mine. Peace <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

LOL! hey, AGG, I can't remember who the poster is/was, but someone here's SISTER had a second marriage where the fiance was a gem, all her friends thought so, her family agreed, they dated for quite awhile. . . and as soon as the wedding was over, he turned into a turd, a real jerk. . . he put one a great show, knew all the correct behaviors. . . so of course, no one expected this turn of events. . . he was a practiced manipulator, a psychopath. . . and could spot spouse hunters a mile away, and captured one. . . . for his own use. . . my point about spouse hunting. . . spouse hunting gives the appearance of being weak, and if you aren't spouse material, you can't be long term friends. . .

[color:"blue"]the point of the future being uncertain is that people often have unpredictable behaviors in new or different situations, as well as there are new and unpredictable events that will occur in the future that will create ever new situations to which unpredictable beahviors will occur. . . . . and although the past is the BEST predictor of future behavior, its not 100 % statistically significant. . . that's all . . regardless of how expectational you hold your ability to control your destiny. . and the other point to remember is that the older one gets, the harder it is for the person to change by oneself. . .

You won't know if "G" will be good marriage partner until you are married. . . until then, its all assumptions and conjecture. . . everyone intends upon making the best decision at any time, but everyone's decision will always be with incomplete information. . . that's the way the human mind works. . . [/color]

My point to AGG about spouse hunting is that every relationship is either a spousal potential relationship, or its nothing, break up, on to the next potential . . . . an i don't want to see you again type of relationship, there are no long lasting female relationships in AGGs life. . . and maybe he would have a few more if he adopted the attitude of being friends with the opposite sex without expectations, and then he might be able to have more than one female friend at a time. . .

but even then, the future will still be uncertain. . . filled with random events. . . but remember, random events are out of your control, and are not created by you. . . they just happen, sometimes to you, other times with you as a bystander with unintended consequences. . .

wiftty

Well, if they dated quite a while, and he still changed after marriage, where did she go wrong? Was the problem that she was "spouse hunting", or that she simply didn't know him well enough? I am betting the latter.


True. But it has nothing to do with "spouse hunting", it's a simple reality that you cannot predict people's behavior in the future. You can study them, try to understand them, etc, but in the end, you are still taking a chance when you marry someone. But it has nothing to do with "spouse hunting" - any marriage will have that risk, because the future is uncertain. I completely agree with you here.


I do limit my romantic relationships to one at a time, and I don't start a new one until the previous one is finished. But, some of my best friends are female. I have known one for 20 years, one for 18, one for 10, one for 5 - so I cannot agree with the "inability to have more than one female friend at a time" comment. And, unless you are advocating overlapping romantic relationships (which I have no interest in), I disagree that I don't have enough female friendships in my life.


I completely agree with you that the future is uncertain. We don't need to beat that dead horse.

Where I do not agree with you is that my monogamous approach to relationships makes me a "spouse hunter". I have been single for 5 years, and I do not mind it one bit. I would be OK being single the rest of my life.

So, while I am single, I can do one of two things - date one woman at a time until such time that I decide that I either want to marry her or not; or, I can just date women even if I know I have no interest in them longterm. I chose the former, because that works better for me. But it's a personal choice. Neither approach makes the future any more certain.

I think this "spouse hunting" comment applies to those who feel that they "must" be married to be happy, that they "must" be married within 5 years, etc - I have no such thoughts or feelings.

But as always, I appreciate your thoughts, wiftty, and I like the challenge <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

i thought that i read in one of your posts that being married was one of your goals because you were wired that way . . . that is why the comments that were specifically directed at you. . .

with the above statements, if true, the spouse hunting would not apply to you. . .

wiftty

You mean we spent all this time arguing over nothing??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

I am wired to be monogamous, that is true. But I am not "looking" to be married. I would be happy to be married, IF I found someone that I would want to be married to (how's that for a mouthful?), because divorce has not soured my view of marriage, but I would much rather be single than married to the wrong person.

You know my motto - "I'd rather be alone than wishing I were alone" => doesn't sound like a spouse hunter, does it?

In fact, the book I keep pushing (Will Our Love Last) lists all the wrong reasons to get married ("I'm older than my parents were when they got married", "I won't do better than present partner", "I don't want to be alone", etc) - and as I studied each one, I found that none of them applied to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I've been married before, so that box is checked. I have kids, don't want any more, so the "marriage for kids" is not a concern. And I am really happy on my own, being the strong introvert, so I don't need that kind of companionship for validation or entertainment.

BTW, I know exactly what you mean by spouse hunters, my XW was one, both before I met her (in hindsight) and after the divorce. And I have seen quite a few on this board as well. But, no, not moi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

OK, I hope we have put this to rest now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG