Good morning everyone.

I woke up to a thunderstorm this morning and had trouble getting out of bed. I love these mornings. I hope everyone had a pleasant night.

I'm feeling ok this morning. I still miss my family very much, but I'm pretty much numb. I will feel better tonight though, as I'm going to see the Rolling Stones in concert. Unfortunately, I will be going alone, but that's ok.

How's everyone else doing?

If you happened to have an extra ticket, I would be delighted to accompany you tonight? I have made a concious decision to put the blues behind me and begin to live again!

Last night was horrible. My STBXWH called and left the nastiest message while I was out. Seems one of his housemates told him that my DD came to their house, stayed in the driveway shouting obscenities and making hand gestures. Only problem was, I know that both DDs were at work and couldn't possibly have done this. He was furious and threatening and absolutely childish. I listened to the message 5 or 6 times and got sicker each time. I finally called him back and explained that he might want to check his sources because it was impossible that the event occurred. He has decided now that he is not ready to sell the house and has gotten even angrier with me. I believe that he is beginning to face some of the reality that he has created and I am tired of feeling and half believing that this was my fault. No one person can be blamed for another persons misery and if he can not grow up and accept the facts of his own life, I see no reason to continue to indulge in his misery with him. I made mistakes out of love, and I will learn from my own and go forward, not dwell in a past that has been rewritten.

We too had that morning storm and laying there in bed with coffee and the comfort of a sleeping dog, windows open and sun rising, was the most peaceful I have been in months.

It does get better! I just need to stay focused now on adding up the good days and not dwelling on the bad.

The Rolling Stones eh? WOW. I hope you have a wonderful time.

It has not started raining here yet. But it's not very pretty outside. I think some bad storms are supposed to move in tonight. I love storms. Makes me just want to lay on the couch with a warm blanket and watch some good movies.

For the last three weeks I have had trouble getting out of bed. I have been late every single morning I think. Thank God I have a boss who doesn't mind. But for some reason, this morning I got right up out of bed (OK, I did push the snooze button once...but usually it gets pushed atleast ten times). I was actually thirty minutes early for work this morning. I don't know why. I didn't sleep all that well. Had trouble getting to sleep and when I finally did, I woke up every hour or so. So last nights sleep pattern was the usual, but for some reason I felt better when I woke up. Strange.

Last night was uneventful, but a good evening. Lots of attention from H, I miss you's and I love you's. SF. So here we go again. Back in another circle.

Tired, thought any more about the "dating" thing?

I'm sorry Blue, only got one ticket, but if I had another you would be welcome to go. I got the ticket a long time ago, when I thought my M was still going to work. My STBXW doesn't like the crowds at a concert and didn't want to go. Somehow though, deep inside I knew that I would go to this show as a divorced man. Same thing with me this morning. Lying in bed with Sam, my basset hound, listening to the rain and thunder. It was nice. I'm sorry about the STBXH calling and making a fool out of himself regarding the DD. I guess the fog extends to more than just marriage.

Hi Soon. I love storms also. Often times I will sit on the patio and just watch and listen to nature's fury. I love to read or cuddle with someone special during a storm (poor Samson). I think it sort of a "Burl Ives" mentality or something. I have been sleeping well also. Last night I slept through the tornado sirens and police car sirens. I did notice the basketball goal turned over in the driveway this morning, so I guess it got pretty bad. I don't know how you can have SF at this point. It seems to me that it would be too sad. Does he still tell you "i miss you" and "I love you" without the SF? I would hate to think that is the only thing that he wants from you.

I have thought about the dating thing a little more. I told a mutual friend that I had a "woman" over and we talked and had a nice time. I will let that get back to STBXW and see if it has any effect. I doubt it will, but you never know. I do realize that I couldn't really date anyone yet, as I am still in love with my STBX, and I don't want to get into a contest with her as to who can get a new lover first, as she is very beautiful and would win in a landslide. I just want her to miss me, and to know that I gave her my best, and it was good, whether or not we get back together. I do love her.

Okay Tired41, maybe it's my turn to play life coach. Today I feel up to it.

No one assumes that you are going to stop loving your wife, just because you go on living. A date is just a social event involving 2 people of the opposite sex doing something enjoyable to both at the same time. See? Easy enough. A real date, with someone you enjoy, may have the desired effect on your X as well as the added bonus of giving you a few hours of pleasure in not focusing on what your X is doing and you arent. At the very least, taking you mind off the X for a couple of hours may be just the start of realizing that life can get better, with or without her. It will never be the same again, but different is not always bad.

You have nothing to loose by living outside the memories and everything to gain.

Thanks Blue. You are right. The only real hangup I have with dating is that my D is not even final yet. I know it hasn't stopped my STBX from seeing other men, but I just can't break my vows. In a strange way, I take pride in upholding these vows until it is over (talk about a loser).

I think your life-coaching skills are good. Please keep your ideas coming.

That's not being a loser at all, Tired. It just means that you are honoring the vows that you made. You are still married. If your STBXW came back to you after the D is final, would you take her back? (stupid question?)

If so, I'd say. Just "spread" the word like you are doing. If you don't feel comfortable dating, then don't. Just let her think you are. After the D is final if you feel up to the company of another woman then do it.

Don't do anything you are uncomfortable doing.

Blue, why in the world is your H being so dad gummed nasty to you? Do you really have any idea? So, now he says he doesn't want to sell the house...then what are his plans? His is so stuck in the fog right now that obviously he doesn't know which way to turn.

I'd just ignore his nasty messages. He's probably just trying to get a rise out of you. so, don't stoop to his level of childishness.

Tired, also...you asked a question earlier. Yes, H does tell me he loves me and misses me even when there is no SF. Confusing huh?

Back and forth, back and forth.

I had promised H that I would not email him anymore after that little episode we had the other day. I broke down this morn and emailed him. Couldn't help it. I heard a song yesterday that reminded me of us. So I emailed him the lyrics. I'm so weak. Oh well, my heart told me to do it.

Thanks Soon. I don't know if I would take her back or not. I guess none of us would really know that until we are in that situation. A lot of it would depend on her willingness to rebuild the marriage, and her DEMONSTRATION of that willingness. I would not take her back if all I got was "lip service".

I really don't think that she cares at all. It's odd to me that for 5.5 years I was the one she claimed to love with all her heart, and the last year she doesn't care if I'm still breathing. I can't figure out in which time period she was lying.

Soon, I think sometimes we depend too much on the "words" people say and not enough on the "actions" that they take. In that context, I guess maybe she never did really love me.

I think she did, Tired. Don't know her. But I do think she loved you and I do think that she still does. She just acts like she doesn't. Maybe she is so ashamed of herself for what she has done...that ignoring it is the only way she knows right now. Typical behaviour of WS. It's easier for her to ignore it than deal with it. It's the easy way out. I know.

I think your right about not knowing if you'd take her back or not. As much as I love my H, I don't know if I'd take him back or not. I think we've discussed this on here before, we'd take them back IF they wanted to change and rebuild. Actually do the work. Not just talk about it.

I too depend too much on the words and not the actions. Well, I am beginning to look more at H actions now than I used to. His words of love do not do much good for us if he doesn't follow through with the actions to back them. The act of SG does not proove love to me. He can do that with anybody.

Oops I meant, the act of SF. Don't know what SG is.

Morning all,

Tired, Hope you enjoy the concert!

Soon, Glad you are not feeling too bad today. That is a good sign. Good for you.

Blue, Sorry your H is being so strange and nasty. It must be that darn fog. Hope today is a good one for you.

I'm feeling so at peace that I am starting to scare myself. I honestly don't know what is going on. As I said in my last post last night, I guess I know what I need to do & I am through playing tough guy, through playing games. I am going to just be myself while setting up healthy boundaries...taking care of me and my kids and let the marriage/relationship chips fall where they may.

My H knows that I want us to rebuild our marriage - there really isn't much more I can do, other than let him know that the ONLY way we have a chance is if he ends everything with MOW. He knows it. Let's just see what he does. As Tired put it, actions speak a heck of alot louder than words. In the meantime, as I said, I am going to do what makes me happy & take good care of my kiddos - focus on getting myself back to work & continue making the self improvements that are necessary, whether H and I are together or not.

It will be his HUGE loss if he doesn't want to return. Huge loss. And I believe he will be a very unhappy man.

Tired, I love thunderstorms too. Aren't they the best? I am sure Samson doesn't mind you talking with him. I love my little dog so much, it's crazy. She is an incredible companion. She's the prettiest little cocker spaniel around-such a little princess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Soon, you may be right about the guilt. The last interaction I had with my STBX was some text messaging. I told her:

Me: I hate being without you and our family. Is there any way that we can make our M work.
STBX: I just don't feel the same way that you do. I'm sorry.
Me: Ok. I love you!
STBX: I really know that you do, and I don't deserve it.

Sort of a weird converstion, huh? This was a couple of weeks ago, and I haven't conversed with her since.

I agree that SF does not prove love. The best part of SF, to me, was the love I felt toward her and assumed that she felt toward me.

Soon, you may have to draw a diagram to explain SG. Just kidding!

Thankful. Good to hear from you this morning. It sounds like you are getting to a good place mentally. I'm proud of you. Yes, if he chooses to go, it will be a big loss for him, and the veil of fog will not last forever. I don't know how somebody can live with the thought of having destroyed their family. I would probably eat a bullet if I knew that I did that.

If only spouses could be like dogs.

See Tired, my H doesn't look at it as destroying his family because of an OW. He believes our relationship was on it's way out the door, prior to him ever even talking to her/starting that whole thing up. He believes that it is NOT about her and he would never leave me FOR another woman - he said if he leaves, he is leaving FOR him -because of how I have made him feel over the years. Used and abused pretty much is how he puts it. He does exaggerate to some extent because I don't think I actually abused him, but I will admit that I did not treat him as I should have, even tho' it was unintentional and I was not aware of what I was doing b/c of my belief system. I am finding this all out now, through IC. My counselor even admitted that he has every right to be as hurt as he is by me but that still doesn't warrant him having an A. I really never listened to him when he would try to tell me he was unhappy and he is right. I thought "no way, we are invincible - we are the perfect couple, there is no way he is really unhappy - he treats me so wonderfully, how could he really be unhappy?" I was wrong. I didn't "hear" what he was trying to get thru to me. That is my fault but I pray to God that we (me, my kids and H) all don't have to suffer for the rest of our lives because of my mistake.

Gosh, how did I just get into that? Sorry for being so long winded.

We all made mistakes in our M, everyone does, but don't be too hard on yourself. It is natural for us to look back and amplify our mistakes, and I think most WS will help you do that to ease their conscience. My STBX, and probably most other WS all say that the A did not kill the M, that it was dead before, and I know that they say this to ease their guilt. I wish I had listened to my W better, but I didn't deserve this. We have all learned and changed.

I've got to go now. I hope all of you have a good day. I will check back in tomorrow afternoon.

Well, this is my 2 cents. He's just putting the blame on you because it's easier. I just don't believe the whole "our M was already over anyway" line. He's just blame shifting. I don't care if you did treat him as you say you did, that's still no reason for finding OW.

I feel at peace today guys. I dont know what's going on. AD's maybe?

thankful, you looking for a job yet? I really think that would help you. I took a year and a half (well, I did at my H demands) off from work and I dreaded going back. I didn't want to. I thought I wanted to stay at home with the kids...well I probably still would if I could afford it. But after I went back to work I felt a lot better about myself.

Tired and Soon,
I totally agree that I am not to blame for his choice to have an affair. He agrees with that also and takes full responsibility for that choice but he keeps telling me I am wrong when I tell him I believe he is placing all this blame on our M problems to just make himself feel better about what he is doing. He says NOTHING is making him feel better about anything. It is like talking to a brick wall with him - which I guess is the fog. I think he just cannot fathom, b/c he had such high morals and standards that he was able to have feelings for another woman, so instead of blaming himself for that choice, he is blaming it all on me and the M. I don't know. Every time I mention that to him he tells me I am wrong. He blames me for him falling out of love with me. He says that if I just gave a "little", we would never be where we are. I wish I could turn back the clock but I can't. We are here now. We have to move forward. I am...he is not. He is stuck and he needs to just let go of his anger/resentment/frustration towards me. Instead he keeps holding onto it. I guess he holds onto it to justify the A? I don't know.

I am totally with you Soon - I feel at peace also. It is a great feeling and I hope it lasts! I haven't even started A/D's yet but I am tomorrow.

It is a wonderful feeling to finally feel that I am going to be okay, whether we are together or not. As I said, I hope it continues.

Soon, do you watch Survivor? I missed the first few, but I plan to start watching tonight.

Oh and about the job - a very close friend of mine is trying to hook me back up in the industry I used to work, but with her company. Her boss/CEO of the company wants to talk with me, so we will see how this pans out! It would be awesome, b/c I would probably be telecommuting. I'd still be required to have the kids in school/daycare but telecommuting is such a great thing - it has such benefits.

I honestly believe that the problems my STBXWH are facing are more of an internal nature. He has told me the affair was about trying to be "who he used to be" and it was with someone he knew from his early 20's. The OW never matured beyond that stage, and he wanted to revert. Even now he stays so focused on past hurts, past actions, past behaviors that he is incapable of dealing with anything in the present at all and you can forget about the future.

If anger is a mask for other emotions, I think that he is one very scared individual. He is no longer 25 with the whole world at his feet. He is almost 50 and not the great success he expected to be, he is not as healthy or as capable of hard work and hard play that he was at 25, and all of the other things in life that he expected have not materialized. He is scared of coping with the reality of his world today and he uses his anger to cover his fear. I have not died of a broken heart, nor come begging for him to come home and I think that is beginning to scare him too. If I am no longer the adoring, accepting, can;t function with out you, mirror for his ego, than he might actually have to learn to cope with things himself. I think he expected to be able to come back when he was ready and believed that I would be there, chastely waiting. I have never drawn a line in the sand for him that I didn't eventually erase, and I have run out of sand this time. Over. Done. I will always love the man he used to be, and if he comes back, I will be glad to see him, but I will never again be willing to sacrifice everything on the chance he's gonna wanna stick around.