AGG - and all who have an opinion on this -,

in one of your recent posts, you mentioned the 1 year rule for moving in together.

I was wondering about how that one year should be spent IYO.

We have similar timelines: I guess you kissed G the first time pretty soon after BF - Mr Conversation - and I first kissed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> BF doesn´t have kids but I have two, BF never has been married but I was.
I´ve been reading about you and G, and I´m sorry you´re hitting some possible deal breakers. I read the advise given to you, too, and found I had nothing more to add - except that you´ve got it so together that you´ll decide when and what is right for you. But that´s already been said as well... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BF and I are about to hit the 3 months mark of being together, and things are steadily moving towards serious commitment. We´re in the very lucky situation of no deal breakers nor red flags in sight. Amazingly, BF has never heard of MB concepts but lives them nevertheless. It took me a lot of reading and living before I was able to really grasp what it all means. He just does it.

Anyway, of course we´ve had some of the "big talks" already.
* Kids: Before I met BF, I already said that I don´t *need* to have more kids to feel complete but might want one more with The One. From what I´ve seen with him so far, if there is a The One, it´s him.
*Marriage: Pretty likely to happen. Not, like, tomorrow but not in 5 years, either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
*And of course, living together. So here we have it. Though having lived on his own all his adult life, he´s not overly affected by Single Persons´Disease. Our schedules are very similar and both our need to spend time together and with my kids very high. In fact, it would make things even easier if we lived together. He´s willing to move to my town since he understands I don´t want to uproot my kids and I´m more attached in various ways to my town than he is to his. (And boy, do I appreciate that.)
Now, buying a house together is quite a decision and a scary thing to do. And of course,this wouldn´t happen tomorrow, either. But, again, not such a long way down the road, either.

What would you consider your one year rule? Wait a year before even thinking about living together? Or would you "allow" for the planning and looking for a home together to fall into that one year? I guess I´m asking because I often found your advise to be very sound and I want to make sure I´m seeing all I need to see and not moving too fast. On the other hand, with how things are going between BF and me, it would seem most unnatural to NOT talk living together in the near future.

Nora

Nora,

From what you are saying, it certainly sounds like you have a great thing going, congratulations! G and I are also about to hit the three month mark, but like you said, we do have some issues and possible dealbreakers to iron out. Still, three months is a reasonably long time to spend with someone (especially if you spent a lot of time together during those months), and the question of "where is this going?" is a reasonable one.

Now, keep in mind that I have never lived with anyone except for my ex-W, and even then it was only after we got married. So, I am not sure that I would ever live with someone before marriage - not that I am totally opposed to it, but I have a hard time picturing why I might be OK with someone moving in but not OK with marrying them. But, I might feel differently at some point, I dunno.

Regardless, I would strongly advise AGAINST either moving in or marrying too quickly. The commonly suggested timeline I see is one to two years of dating (the latter especially if you have kids, ahem). The reasons are obvious - it takes time to get to know a person, and especially when you are older and have kids, there is much more at stake. The pages here are littered with examples of people who married too soon (yours truly included), so there is no substitute for spending time together.

I heard specific justfications for "at least one year", such as some people behave differently during different seasons (may have their mood affected by gloomy weather, or have very strong hobbies that show up in some seasons, etc), or some surprises might pop up during specific holidays, etc. But, most of all, I think you just need that kind of time to get to know a person, get past infatuation, and see all the warts.

For instance (and you know this is coming <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), it almost concerns me that you see NO red flags. Are you sure you are looking hard enough? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Usually, there has to be something... Why was he never married? Anyway, you would want to make sure that your awesome compatibility is real rather than just the result of one or both of you being extra flexible towards the other person during Infatuation. KWIM?

Anyway, I don't think I am helping much, but I would just say that 1-2 years is a good timeline, IMO. You can't go wrong with giving things time, no matter how much you might ache for being with the other person all the time. Now, if you are willing to take the chance of moving in together sooner and then having to move out, that is a different story, but would you want that with kids involved?

OK, I'll wrap up now, I am supposed to be on vacation, but I'll check in later <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

AGG,

thanks for replying even though you´re on vacation. Hope you enjoy it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hm, I actually only lived together with ex-H, too. And we did get married too soon, too. I don´t know, though, if waiting longer would have made such a big difference since at the time, I didn´t have the information I would have needed to see and understand the red flags that were flying left and right. Only when things got really bad, I started reading and posting here and learning a lot - with a capital L - about marriages, relationships, and life in general. Someone on this board has this great quote by Maya Angelou as sig line along the lines of you act the best you know and when you know better, you act/decide etc. better.
Back then, my gut feeling told me something was wrong but I didn´t trust it and rationalised it away. I´ve been getting a whole lot better at trusting that gut feeling. Even when I can´t rationally explain why something feels wrong, I listen to it and try to find out more. Usually, it turns out my gut feeling was right and there WAS a valid reason for it.

So far with BF, my gut hasn´t cried out at all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In my M, I had my share of lies and infidelity, though not the classical affair kind but the addicted to porn kind. So my tolerance for any inappropriate contents anywhere is below zero. I´d be very easily alarmed by anything resembling that.

We spend a lot of time together: Three days during the week and all the weekend. I guess we both find it pretty unbearable to be apart for more than 24 hours. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That way, we´ve expereinced quite some every day experiences: mood swings, tempers - ours and my kids´-, soccer practises - my kids´ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - and all that jazz. And we did do fun things like concerts and trips together where we could focus on just the two of us. It was always a true pleasure to be with him. And still is.

What you said about waiting at least a year to see what seasons etc. do to us makes perfect sense to me since I´m a much happier person when summer comes. Wonder why that last winter wasn´t so bad, after all... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
BF is very interested in sports and music but I am as well so we can watch it together.

We´re not about to marry, or buy a house, or get pregnant anytime really soon - depending on what you consider soon. We were actually thinking about a time frame of a year before anything big is supposed to happen. But we do talk about the big things.

I don´t know if I´m looking hard enough for the red flags. I sure do look for those that destroyed my M. I´m looking for them very hard and any sign, heck, any whiff of them would have me run for the hills. Nothing here. But maybe while looking so hard for the red flags I´m painfully familiar with, I might miss others. Someone started a thread about red flags and I´ll read it carefully.

As for BF never having been married: Approximately 6 years ago, he lost a lot of weight. Up until then, he was rather introverted and with a rather low self esteem. And two years prior to his weight loss, his mother was increasingly sick and then died. He shared caring for her with his father so there was little time and energy to meet a woman.
BF and I met through the internet. The funny thing is that we both know people from way back. He went to school with people I´ve been on vacation with 15 years ago. He´s still friends with these people, and I "re-met" them and like them a lot. So there´s no reason for me to think that there are some red flags in his past - drugs or such.

So far, he always has been open and honest about everything and I have no reason to question him. Whenever something comes up - may it be due to not knowing each other all that well or me remembering painful moments of my M or just a good ol´misunderstanding - we talk about it. And talk. And then talk some more. Until we both feel that it´s okay. And then it really is.

In case I´m not seeing some red flags here: What should I look for?

Oh, and BTW: My kids love him and don´t like it when he´s not around. He keeps the right balance between getting involved but not over-involving. Of course, I would hate to move in with him and live as a family only to have it torn apart a little later.

Thanks!

Nora

OK, this is very similar to me and G, with the exception of finding it unbearable to be apart for more than 24 hours - if it truly feels that way, I'd consider it a subtle red flag <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Unless I misunderstood, I don't consider mood swings and tempers to be an everyday experience - can you clarify this?



That is great, and it should certainly feel that way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. But realize that it is still just "dating" during Infatuation <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Oh, be very careful there! I have done the same in the past (look for red flags from previous relationships), but that is called "fighting yesterday's war" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. What I am finding is that red flags are always different, and you need to be able to see them. My ex had one set issues, the first post-divorce GF did not have them, but she was mentally ill; the next GF was not mentally ill but dishonest; the next GF was honest but codependent, and so it goes. I thought I'd seen it all, but now with G I see things I never even considered before, such as sleep/clutter issues, which are clearly red flags. Unfortunately, it falls on your shoulders to look for those <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Would it bother you if the weight returned, as it statistically does? How much weight did he lose?


Well, careful with that one. My kids love G, as they did all my previous GFs, which did not make them right for me. Kids are not the litmus test here. Obviously, if they do NOT like someone, it deserves further consideration, and if they do, it is a good thing, but don't count on the kids to decide if the person is right or not. I know you know that, of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Apart from having had some hectic days with kids being sick, I needed to think about your post some before responding.

Red flags you mentioned:
On our evenings apart, I miss BF but it´s not really unbearable. I was exaggerating to get my point across. I´m still able to function normally and even enjoy myself. But I do prefer being with him. Him being around doesn´t prevent me from doing things I like or need to do. If there´s laundry to be done, he´ll join and help me and we talk; if I want to read, he´ll join me on the couch with a magazine of his own. Life´s a bit brighter when he´s around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mood swings and tempers: I was talking about my preschoolers`, not ours. You know how kids get cranky and how as a parent you get used to not seeing at as a life crisis but just handle it. But as a non-parent getting to know your GFs kids, BF is doing really well. He found a great balance between staying out of it all and over-involving.
My own "moods" are more the hormonal kind. It´s not the kind that makes plates fly. And both of us are really tired of winter still hanging around which robs some energy. But those are not mood swings that hit you right between the eye where you wonder what happened to the other. When we feel less than overly enthusiastic going to work at 7 a.m., we let each other know and we both know how to handle it then.
Weight: BF lost around 50 pounds. I don´t know how long it statistically takes to gain it back - in the 6 or so years since the weight loss he hasn´t gained back any - and how profound life style changes - which he made - affect that. Would it bother me? It would bother me if it were back right now, all of it. But it´s very well possible it wouldn´t if it "crept" back over a certain amount of time. I can´t answer that sincerely.
Some red flags that are not flying are: Porn issues, emotional abuse, mental illness, dishonesty, and codependency. Those would be real deal breaker ones. I guess I just need to watch out for ones I haven´t even thought about so far. Maybe after three months it´s rather early to determine there aren´t any red flags.

Kids: Oh, I know the kids loving him or not is not the last exam here. It´s a bonus point, though. Of course I´m the one who gets to pick. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But it would cause tremendous problems if they didn´t like him - or even worse, if he didn´t like them.

Just today, we had a long talk about how we want things to be and at what speed. We agree that moving in together won´t happen until next year. It feels more like the natural flow to look at big decisions in that time frame.
As I said, we did talk about the big things - marriage, house, kid(s). And we agree we want them all for us. But now that we determined that we do want them for us, it´s like we lean back and enjoy the perspective we created for us. It doesn´t mean it needs to happen next month. It rather shouldn´t since we´re all booked up with fun things until summer. No time for planning a wedding or buying a house <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. We truly want to enjoy those fun things and not put them on the back burner because we need to select tiles for the bathroom, KWIM? There will be a right time for all the practical details of living together, and this time is not in some distant future. Right now, though, we´re happy enjoying each other and my kids knowing we´re both comfortable with the perspective of all the big stuff.

Does that make sense?

And in the mean time, no rash decisions are being made so in case some red flags do turn up, there will still be time to think about things.

And, BTW, how was your trip?

Nora

Hope you don't mind my butting in, but I think it's insane to consider moving in or marrying someone after only 3 months, especially with kids involved. Personally, I would not even have let my kids meet a boyfriend until we'd dated longer than that! I'm so glad you decided to put this on hold. Don't get caught up in the fairy tale of planning a wedding or the future over the next year. Instead, truly spend that time getting to know this man and his family. Oh yeah, and get a background check done and ask to see the credit report on anyone you are considering cohabitating with! You could potentially save yourself a lot of heartache down the road.

CHTK,

Thanks for your response.

BF and I are not really "putting things on hold", actually. It´s not like we had a wedding reception all planned or were about to sign to buy a house. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
We talked a lot about where we want our R to go and about a rough time frame as well. Discovering we´re on the same page in all the big issues, we feel safe with each other. We made sure we´re not casually dating but wanting to make this R into the last R we both have. We know it´s worth the effort - though up until now it doesn´t feel like an effort at all - because we want the same things for our future. Most importantly, we do want a future together.

Right now, none of us wants to deal with the many, many details of actually planning a wedding or buying a house and moving in. We all know that besides the fun stuff (trying on dresses or chosing kitchens <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) there is boring and annoying stuff. Right now, we´d rather spend the time it would take us to organise all of that talking about us and enjoying our time together - safe and secure in the knowledge that somewhere down the road we will do all that stuff, and then gladly so.

As for the kids meeting BF, I very much agree with AGG´s take on that (again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) the way he describes it here :

"I cannot fathom the idea proposed by some to wait on introducing the kids until the decision for marriage is almost made. It makes no sense to me - kids are part of the package, and dating without seeing your SO's kids is sort of like dating without seeing their house, their friends, etc. It is literally seeing only a small portion of the full picture."

Being a mother is a big part of who I am. How could someone decide how he feels about me without knowing this part of me? A huge chunk of information would be missing.


Nora