My WS's A was exposed to his superiors and OWH on recently.
His superior has said that he will support me in trying to get WS to go to counseling but he can't force him. He said require it WS would have to have it on the record.. I didn't want his career to be damaged so I veered away from it being put on the record.

However WS is refusing counseling. And he is still working with OW. I've been told not to try to force him but I feel some type of therapy needs to be taking place until OW (in a month ot two) leaves if he has to work with her. I don't know how it is effecting him because he isn't talking about it and I expect because he was upset about me going to his superior he won't talk about it.

I would prefer for WS to choose to go. I don't want to try to force him. I am working on the M. Yet I have a concern that if it doesn't work out and we should dv, that this needs to be on the record. Also, if he is forced to go to counseling I really don't think he will take it seriously.

What is the best thing to do?

A: Implement everything you learn here.

Sounds like your WS is normal.

worthatry

OK. Several posted advised me that I should lay low b/c A was recently exposed. THey felt I shouldn't approach him about our R at that time. I'm asking, when should I ask him to do NC letter and expound further on transparency and my boundaries ( those that I do not want him to cross).

Are you sure you aren't describing my H during his A? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If he's being defiant - based on your brief description - he's not ready for NC.

Some WSs come out of the fog immediately upon exposure. Well, let's be more accurate - some come out of the fog and end the affair even BEFORE the BS knows what's happening. The BS never finds out.

The majority of cases here are of the kind that exposure doesn't immediately work. Next steps are further exposure in expanding circles and continuation of Plan A.

That said, setting your boundaries should be done immediately upon YOU finding out about the affair. This doesn't mean the WS will honor them - but you state YOUR position. Don't make it sound like you think you can control the WS: "I will not participate in a 3 way relationship" vs "You better straighten up pronto!" See the difference? You can control only YOU. You cannot control anyone else.

WAT

Hi reallyconcerned. Here's a word of encouragement. The situation is reversed, I'm a BH. But maybe this helps anyway. (I'd already posted it elsewhere, and I hope you can use it as well).

It can and, with the Grace of God, will get better. We were where you are, or maybe worse off. Missed D by just a whisker. My WS couldn't talk or show remorse, etc. Mostly sullen silence. But with time, care and patience we are building a new better M. Spending more time together, renormalizing, getting comfortable around each other, enjoying each others' company, and loving each other.

I'm not sure what you can do to help him along, other than be the best wife you can. Despite her betrayal, I committed to being the best husband I could - and I mean really committed. Two separate sets of counseling, a men's Sunday school group focused on being better husbands, lots of reading, and lots of loving actions towards my wife. I believe that my commitment has helped her as well. For men there's a great book "Every Man's Marriage", but Arterburn and Stoeker. It's a real eye-opener. Helped me to see how much I've thoughtlessly trampled my wife, and it's helping me see how to be the husband God wants me to be. Not sure what's the equivalent for women, but if you can find something of that flavor it can help you. As your WH perceives your commitment and sees how important you are in his life, he may come around.


At this point I'm starting to see a glimmer of hope that itcould be much better than before her A. I wish that for you. Good luck and God Bless your marriage.

Seeking stories that of hope where WS is defiant. Please assist, even after the A.

That's what I'm talking about. Couldn't believe how defiant she was. For months and months. It started in May, she told me in June, but then continued defiantly almost to Thanksgiving.

Ultimately she came to realize that our marriage would end, and chose to keep it intact by ending her affairs. She had two, plus a one-night stand. That I know of. I suppose there could have been more.

Even after Thanksgiving she was belligerent, defiant, unremorseful, and unrepenting. And unwilling to work on the marriage. But with time and work things have changed.

Can you say more about your situation? WHen you say he's defiant, what do you mean by that? Do you think he's stopped seeing the OW?

Hi again really concerned. Just read your other thread. I understand much of what you are thinking and feeling. And I agree that you are well advised. LA and your other posters are terrific.

I exposed in early Sept. WW was so defiant and belligerent that she promised to D me. Visited divorce attorneys. Moved to the other bedroom, looked at apartments, started doing her own laundry, etc. Unbelieveable. I continued Plan Aing.

Did fairly well, but then hit a bad spot and turned my back on her. Didn't speak to her, didn't acknowledge her, walked out of the room when she entered. Bought some divorce books (e.g. "Be a Great Divorced Dad") to replace the marriagebuilder books I'd been devouring. At the time, I thought I was ready to divorce.

Turning around on her wasn't a choice I made. I guess it was kind of an unintentional 180. I wasn't trying to do anything, it just happened. If I'd been in control of myself - as I should have been - I would not have done that. And I don't recommend it.

But in our situation, the effects were interesting. I believe my WW started to understand that the M really could end. And then she turned around and really wanted to work on the M. What a nice surprise.

Then we did a seesaw for awhile. One of us would be trying, the other wouldn't. Back and forth. Finally we worked our way out of it, and a mild uptrend started. Still continuing to go in a good direction.

I'm not recommending a 180. Instead, I suggest lots and lots of love and attention from you. Prove to him beyond a reasonable doubt your love for him. Don't leave him any room to think otherwise. Be a rock and anchor for him, show him that you can still love him even when he goes far off the path, and that you are capable of forgiving him. Make a safe and loving place for him, give him space and give him smiles, make him feel secure. Own your own flaws, and really commit to making yourself a better person. Concentrate on your own flaws, and in Christian charity overlook his flaws. JMHO.

Good luck and God Bless your efforts and your marriage.

wnh, some of things you posted really speak loud and clear to me. I've been teeter tottering back and forth with WS. At times holding on to my beliefs and at times abandoning them. I appreciate your post because it shows how very human we are and sometimes we struggle.

Also, I apprecaite your sharing just how defiant your WS was and allowing me to see that they can be a hard force to reckon with. I relate to that in my WS. I guess the difficulty is remaining internally motivated rather than externally manipulated, when every fiber in your being says they must do this and they must do that!. In my being anyway, lol. Oh the work.

wnh, I take it that you got to a place where you just focused on you rather WS. I'm battling with this right now. Please feel free to share about your experiences in this area.

I am working on issues with being controlling and eliminating LB especially DJs. Today I think I began to understand with much more clarity the responsibiliy of my H and my responsibility. The lines were becoming muddied or blurred, (don't know if muddied is a word,lol). I guess, the truth is that our WS have boundaries also that we (BS) aren't to cross. So, I'm working on this.

Oh, and thanks for sharing about being loving, caring. I don't want to overdo it but I know I have a lot of showing a different side of me to do because of my past LBing history.

What is more important is that I'm learning what triggers this and how to care and protect my loved one from myself or from my tendency to go into personal, verbal assault mode. My anger used to be fierce and my mouth just out of control.

I thought I had to be this way. But now I'm trying to deal with the issues that sparked this in me, change the old habits of acting this way, and create an atmosphere conducive to WS feeling safe to talk to/approcah me.
Sorry to go on and on. Thanks again for hearing me out.

Well I hope I can help a little. I know it's a difficult place to be, and we all need some help and compassion.

Not sure if this is useful to you since it's just my personal experience. Anyway. My own journey took a religious turn. I started to understand that there is a lot to be learned from religious-oriented books. E.g. 'The Battle Belongs to the Lord' by Joyce Meyer. (You might want to take a look at it). And dozens of others.

At one point I was asking 'How do we know when God want us to divorce'? Trying to keep my own ego out of it, and think in terms of what's the right thing to do.

Even if you're not a believer - and I wasn't until recently - there is still a ton of good, caring and useful information in the religious section of the bookstore.

Same with the nonreligious sections of the bookstore come to think of it! But the religious ones in particular speak to me now. What we are called to do, what is expected of us when we are sinned against, how to keep from sinning against our loved ones...

In my case I finally was able to reflect deeply on how I'd treated my spouse for many years. Took a long time to get to the place I could think hard about my own longterm flaws rather than her wayward behavior. In light of my own flaws, it was no surprise she was able to find affection elsewhere. My program now is to be the very best husband I can. It's hard to understand until you've been there, but that makes a tremendous difference. She knows I've dedicated my life to her, and she is showing appreciation in return.

Can I also suggest you try to relax? When you're around your spouse, always give a smile, a tender word, always let spouse know you can and do continue to love. It should make things better. But whether it does or not, it's the right way to be.

I might be too verbose today. But can I add something about boundaries? IMHO they can be difficult to distinguish from controlling behavior. Many here would say they're completely different, but in my own ignorant head I find it easy to confuse the two.

Here's why I mention that. My WW has felt very controlled by me. She finds me too strong-willed, too parental towards her, feels I haven't made room for her feelings, etc. (Not sure if there is any of that in your situation)?

Anyway, you can imagine how my W might perceive a lot of boundaries. If she were to mistake them for controlling behavior (easy to do IMHO) she would feel even more controlled. So, for us, boundaries are to be avoided unless maybe as a last resort.

(Caveat: Every situation is different, and many on MB really advocate boundaries. Your situation may be different than mine, and for you boundaries may be a very helpful approach. My intention is not to discount them, just to give my thoughts on how they relate to my own personal situation).

weneedhelp, yes your post does help. I, too believe in religious help for my situation and have found reflections on just the scripture itself to be very helpful. I also read a lot of non-religious things that aid me. And Joyce Meyer is a gem. I read and listen to a lot of her stuff.

I identify a lot with your statements about how you treated WS. You may have noticed from my thread. I, too have had problems in my relations with my H. My own personal insecurities and immaturity at times made the way for arguing, LBing, DJing and on. Now I'm learning to not LB or make DJs so that I can hopefully create an environment that alows WS to feel safe around me/ with me.

I'm learning about the inner turmoil that has caused much of my responses that at one time I blamed WS for causing. Now I am trying to learn how to care and protect WS from ways of acting that were harmful to our R. I'm learning to do the same to myself, protect myself from ways of thinking that has been destructive to me.

It is difficult at times when I give into parts of me that compell me to be selfish. Ii is so much work, Big Stuff I call it. Yet it is so worth it (of course I keep tellingmyself this).

I also understand what you mean about the boundaries. Because in the past I was controlling, trying to establish them with WS seems like more of the same. I find it diffcult to think about explaining them to him because I am concerned that I would come off the same way. So now I'm at better stating them to myself so that I can explain them to him. Gosh, I think I'm doing more self-talk than I've ever done in my life.

It is amazing to me how you begin to see things much more differently when you can learn to heal the upset that is on the inside and quiet the demons that once lead your life, your decisions. I mean that figuratively, not literally.
I don't think I'm possessed, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> lol.

Anyway, I'm checking in back and forward throughout the day. I appreciate your post. They are very helpful.
Don't worry if you think it will appeal to me or help me. Many times I read others post and thread and find great tips and food for thought in them. Just as i found in reading your today. So feel free to just share, Thanks again.

Oh yes, one more thing. What's IMHO? I want to get the MB lingo down. So many acronyms I don't know,lol. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My WS's A was exposed to his superiors and OWH on recently.
His superior has said that he will support me in trying to get WS to go to counseling but he can't force him. He said to require it WS would have to have it on the record.. I didn't want his career to be damaged so I veered away from it being put on the record.

However WS is refusing counseling. And he is still working with OW. I've been told not to try to force him but I feel some type of therapy needs to be taking place until OW (in a month ot two) leaves if he has to work with her. I don't know how it is effecting him because he isn't talking about it and I expect because he was upset about me going to his superior he won't talk about it.

I would prefer for WS to choose to go. I don't want to try to force him. I am working on the M. Yet I have a concern that if it doesn't work out and we should dv, that this needs to be on the record. Also, if he is forced to go to counseling I really don't think he will take it seriously.

Should I just let it go and try to best Plan A I can and love him through it?

bump987

Pls review above

bumping, bumping

Hi reallyconcerned. Just got here. Give me a sec and I'll respond....

...
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion.
JMHO = Just My Humble Opinion.
ADA = Another Dang Acronym..

I agree he won't get much out of MC if he doesn't want to be there. I don't think you can force him, and I think maybe you should just drop that word and similar ones from your vocabulary. Replace with 'ask', 'request', 'suggest', 'invite'.. but never force. It breeds resentment. Particularly in your situation and mine. Some approach like POJA (Policy of Joint Agreement - see MB articles) is a much better way.

JMHO; I think the biggest thing is for you to - as you said - love him through it. Give him all the love he can stand. So that one day when he's in a reflective mood, he thinks 'my BW has been really a miracle to continue loving me despite my flaws'... Heck, he is probably already thinking that subconsciously. All it needs is a few more weeks of the same kind love from you for it to be really clear to him.

And then continue that to the end of your lives together. And he will probably reciprocate. But that's not why you do it. You do it because that's what is asked of you, and needed in the world.


Back to the MC topic. If you go to IC, you will no doubt find something really interesting that he would love to hear. Then when you come home you can sweetly drop a hint or two; 'gosh my eyes were really opened to my flaws in IC today.' What spouse could do otherwise than ask 'Oh really I would love to hear about it?' Then you relate your IC exploration of your own flaws and failures and that now that you recognize them you will with God's help work to make yourself a better person.

That's not a ploy, and not intended to be a manipulation. But very likely it will be an honest approach, one possible result of which could be that after a few weeks he may want to join you in counseling.

Anyway IMHO don't do anything to manipulate or control him. Make yourself emotionally irresistible.

Have a happy and blessed day.

Is your WS military? U.S. military?

Counseling during an ongoing affair is not useful, so that's even more reason not to attempt to force counseling. Even when a WS willingly attends counseling during an ongoing affair, it's worthless. So an unwilling WS attending counseling can do more harm than good, IMHO. A double whammy.

Plan A your butt off.

My WS's A was exposed to his superiors and OWH on recently.
His superior has said that he will support me in trying to get WS to go to counseling but he can't force him. He said require it WS would have to have it on the record.. I didn't want his career to be damaged so I veered away from it being put on the record.

However WS is refusing counseling. And he is still working with OW. I've been told not to try to force him but I feel some type of therapy needs to be taking place until OW (in a month ot two) leaves if he has to work with her. I don't know how it is effecting him because he isn't talking about it and I expect because he was upset about me going to his superior he won't talk about it.

I would prefer for WS to choose to go. I don't want to try to force him. I am working on the M. Yet I have a concern that if it doesn't work out and we should dv, that this needs to be on the record. Also, if he is forced to go to counseling I really don't think he will take it seriously.

What is the best thing to do?