That's what my WH wrote to some friends a few months explaining why he is leaving me and our three children for his old high school girlfriend. It is not an affair anymore, he says, it is a committed relationship. He has never once looked back from divorcing me and the D is proceeding merrily along.

I've posted elsewhere about my saga, but my problem I am struggling with is -- what if he's right? Emotionally healthy people don't wallow in sackcloth and ashes for life after they've been betrayed and divorced; they pick up the pieces and move on. People are resilient enough to find happiness no matter how others have hurt them and after enough time they can look back and say, "Well, the divorce was hard but I found the love of my life/got a new career/developed my spirituality/whatever and I guess it all worked out for the best."

If this is true -- that everthing works out for the best eventually and people find happiness where life leads them -- then whatever happened to objective standards of morality that says that betrayal and lies are wrong? Maybe they're not wrong, maybe the pursuit of personal happiness does eventually lead to happiness for everyone else. Or does it? Can it?

Does marriage and a vow mean anything if you can shrug and say, "Look, this is hard for us but we'll both be happier with other people. Me immediately with the person I'm leaving you for and I hope you eventually with someone else. You may not believe this now but you'll look back and be glad this happened." Are marriages something to be entered into and left according to personal pleasure? My religion says no, but if we're both happier 10 years from now then that would seem to contradict both those teachings and any idea that Bad Things Will Happen to You if You Do Bad Things.

I'm just rambling here as I'm struggling with whether to keep praying for an eventual reconciliation or to pray for a happy future without WH. On the one hand, I want us both to be happy; on the other hand, I dislike the idea that you can, in fact, do whatever you want to others with no cosmic repercussions.

I think I need a theologian.

Well, I ain't no theologian, but tell me I'm wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The truth is that no one really ever knows if "things worked out for the best."

How can they?

It's rationalization. Probably right about half the time - just because there are two potential outcomes.

Bad things happen to good people and vice versa.

One thing is for sure, though. You do what you think is right and you'll be able to look back and have peace with that. You'll have no regrets. No matter what happens, in that sense your "things" will have turned out for the best.

JMHO

I don't have a problem with the idea that Bad Things Happen to Good People. I have a problem with the idea that Good Things Happen to Bad People or, more precisely, People Who Do Bad Things.

When you're a BS, one of the things that keeps you warm at night is the idea that "yeah, they'll get theirs someday. Karma. Wheel of life. Cosmic justice. What goes around comes around." But, in fact, I have known many people who have left their spouses, cheated in business, ignored their children, etc., and they are not in the twilight of their lives beset by regrets and misfortune. They're actually doing fine. A friend of mine's father cheated on his wife their entire marriage -- what happened in the end? She died a long, painful death from cancer and he is retired, wealthy, and living on his boat with his second wife and his children enjoy his company. Where's the justice in that?

I know this is a very elementary lesson titled Life is Not Fair, but I am furious at the idea that my WH can do whatever he wants and I, because I am a good person, will pick up the pieces, not badmouth him to the children, etc., and he will get off scot-free.

I think the fact is that living for the present is its own reward. Not just so that you don't have regrets down the line, but knowing in the moment that you are doing the right thing for the right reasons. In my experience with this whole scenario, the underlying shortfall of the WS, or any addict for that matter, is that they believe that a situation or relationship will provide happiness, no matter what the cost is. You will never find happiness if you look for it as if it were something that can be handed to you. You earn it within yourself as a result of your actions and the intentions behind your actions. Situations change, and you might have no control over them, but the way you play the role that you are in as a result of the situation is how you earn your happiness.

I'm no theologian, but, I think YOU move on and find happiness, IN SPITE OF the affair and not because of it. The infidels may find happiness but not eternally unless they repent and seek your forgiveness. 10 years from now he could be fully repentent and happy and so could you, his affair is/was and always will be wrong. The odds say your more likely to find lasting happiness and definetely more likely to achieve eternal happiness than WH.

The meek inherit the earth but I wonder what the betrayed and abandoned get? I'm sure it's something as I've met and seen some wonderful BS's that have moved on with their lives.

Try this quote.

It's wrong, wrong for "us", for my wife and my family, in the end, it will always be wrong; but, as long as everyone plays nice then I can perceive it as right.

Don't buy it and don't play nice...if this man follows through with his plans you don't ever need a "friend" like him in your life.

Mr. Wondering

***"Because it's right for us, it will be, in the end, right for the others in our lives as well."***

This strikes me as pure arrogance. Amazing, jaw-dropping arrogance.

But arrogance is part and parcel of cheating in a marriage. The WS and the OP feel free to make all kinds of decisions for the BS while that is going on. The BS is dragged into situations they never asked for, and no one ever bothers to ask if the BS would like to be part of a threesome. That decision was made *for* them.

And now the WS is telling the BS that making decisions for them was the right thing to do all along.

Don't get me started.
Mulan

***I don't have a problem with the idea that Bad Things Happen to Good People. I have a problem with the idea that Good Things Happen to Bad People or, more precisely, People Who Do Bad Things.***

I know exactly what you mean, and I feel the same way.

I would say, though, that looks can be deceiving. There is always a price to be paid for cruel and selfish actions and while you may not see it on the surface, it is there nonetheless. That successful executive with the trophy wife may have grown children who barely speak to him and grandchildren he will never really know.

Also: One of my favorite quotes come from an old science-fiction TV show called *Babylon5*. One of the characters is bemoaning how Life Is Not Fair, and another character says something like:

"I, for one, am very glad that life is not fair -- because if it was fair, that would mean we actually deserve all the dreadful things that happen to us. And so I take great comfort in the general unfairness of the universe."

Mulan

hoopsie, you want justice. Please don't wait on it.



More rationalization. Right about half the time - again.

Good things DO HAPPEN to bad people. Don't try to police this, you'll drive yourself nuts while wasting your opportunities for happiness.

WAT

I know it's arrogance. And it is predicated on the premise that there are people in your life who will pick up your pieces. I could keep the kids from him and say, "Gee, WH, this is what's right for me so it will be right for you too in the end." But I don't because that would be wrong and hurtful to them.

I could leave the kids with my parents and run off with George Clooney -- not that he's asking -- and say "Gee, kids, this is what's right for me so it will be right for you too. Thanks mom!" But I don't because that would be wrong. But the lesson I"m learning is that as long as you have people in your life who *aren't* selfish, you can be as selfish as you want and things will work out well enough for you.

Exactly!
I remember saying these sames words to WxH. I said "It must be nice to feel like you are able to just pack up your stuff and leave, and leave me to raise the boys alone. What if I had done the same to you? Would that have been ok?

I believe 100%, without a doubt, that his actions will come back to haunt him. bad things/good things, all that put aside.
whether you call it karma, or Gods vengeance, or the law of the universe, the day will come when his actions will sting him.

I was just like you. Cried myself to sleep at night thinking "why am I the one left alone and lonely? I have been a good mom, a good friend to others, a good daughter and sister. I sing in the church choir, I work hard. I fixed his dinners every night and served them to him in his recliner chair. Why me? Why does he get the happy new life and I get the sad and alone life?

someone told me something once that has certainly proven true for me: WH was enjoying sin for a season. But that was it. Just a season. I read that passage in scripture last night and it reminded where I was 3 years ago. WxH was enjoying his sin for a season, but his season is over now and he still hasn't recovered from it.

Continue to pray for your healing. Let the Lord decide what form your healing will take. Whether it will be with your WH or without him.

Personally, my life is SO MUCH better now, in spite of my WxH, and his bad choices. My new H is such a mighty man of God and I wouldn't trade him for the world.

The thing is life is hard and long when you harbor anger and bitterness.

On days which are very bad I think about the "unfairness" of it all and it makes me feel sick, unhappy, unloved...

So I think that our responsibility is that no matter what life deals for us we must go on in the best way we can, not only for ourselves but for the other people we effect...our kids, our friends, and even those who ring up our groceries.

That is what it means to "increase and extend" (God's love).

My brother always told his young kids "we don't worry about what other people do or don't do, we only worry about what we do or don't do".

It is so hard to be the left behind one though. And I think if you want a reconciliation then pray on, but make sure you are doing what you need to do to be happy regardless of the outcome.

AMEN!

As I have heard hear many times...the best revenge is living well. Live your life well, Hoopsie and know that your kids will love and respect you for it. God bless.

I do not believe that people get off scott-free from infidelity. Life is not always fair but more often than not, the scales will balance. Look at the statistics of the success rates of affair marriages. If you were in Vegas, you wouldn't put odds on it.

In the end, everyone has to live with their own conscience. What looks like happiness on the outside may be the perfect apple with the rotten core.

That's one of the wonderful things about the MB process. If you do the steps, in the end, you may be able to feel like you've done all that you can. Peace of mind and living well are the best revenge. You take the lemons and make the lemonade. You take the experiences you've had, the things you've learned and apply them to the next relationship. What has a CS learned? How to sneak around? How to dispose of relationships? How to be self-serving?

Hoopsie, your STXCH's statements are born from the fog. Your statements are born from pain. Infidelity mutates us. What will you mutate into?

excellent reply grapegirl...

hoopise hon...those almost exact words were spouted from the fogged mouth of my now xh...

the man who immediately remarried his pregnant gf and rewrote our entire marriage and even dating....

yea, he said almost the same exact thing.

where did he end up?

turns out he was NEVER once faithful since his affair marriage began. they never had six months of "fidelity"...never. not even when they were so called "dating" (of course my xh was married to me then).

they've almost divorced 2x. he's had known three affairs since their marriage. and he's meddled in my life...watching ME GROW from afar...and knowing he threw away in reality...his whole life on a pile of heaping and stinking poo borne lies.

and yes, I am always amazed at the incredulous arrogance these ws and op have when "redoing history"...the whole downplay of ripping apart a family...kids...whole life...and not to mention the whole ignore it and it will go away attitude about what our God says about adultery.

I like how james dobson describes affairs that turn into ltr's or marriages. he says that at first it's hot...it's steaming...and they realize how much pain was muddled thru just to get to this hot and steamy point.

a few months pass. "hot and steamy" gives way to daily drudge and routine. laundry. gas (and I don't mean the kind at the pump)...morning breath. hearing every joke known by the ws told at least ten times. and then one morning...something very un=magical happens. THE FOG CLEARS...

and the newlyweds or newlyshacked up see a horrible sight before them. there is NO LONGER ANY drama...there is no more fight to be won. there is no more prize. there is no danger. no excitement anymore that the affair once offered. there is quiet. and there is THE DESTRUCTION that is viewed best in the quiet of the dawn after the storm of the night.

the WS may see it only after a few months...or it may come a year or so after the first real fight...and the first realization that there was NO truth in their relationship. NO strong or solid foundation. Or it could come in the tears seen in the eyes of their kids after yet a sad parting on visitation day. but the WS will see it. and it will not be pretty. I guess this is why the stats regarding affair marriages are SO POOR.

let's say the married lovers are now two years as my xh is now with his affair wife into their so called marriage. do you think they're having fun? heck no. I picked up my ds from school today. he spouts out "Mommy...daddy and family values were screaming before school this morning...she called him a sob"...these are thw words flying from the mouth of MY INNOCENT SON...my poor son who was a victim to the AFFAIREES AND THEIR SIN. my son hears them regularly swear at each other. yell and scream. and heard even furniture break last summer during the other affair...

oh yea...yea right! my xh is SO HAPPY MARRIED TO HIS MISTRESS. they're just happy as clams. and if you believe that, I got some oceanfront property in arizona to sell ya cheap!

meanwhile...my xh is building his dreamhouse. his BIG THING is almost built. it will be his solace, his happiness...and he will and has continued in whatever little convo we have about proving to me he did it..he built BETTER than our dream house was. but I will never step a foot into it. not at all. sadly last year he once said, "peach, you're gonna love moving closer to ds's school and the lakehouse. in the summers YOU CAN EVEN COME OVER AND GO SWIMMING". the man deep down still wants the original dream. me in that house. and it will never happen.

so hoopsie honey...when your ws and his mistress make such stupid accusations, smile and nod. YOU KNOW THE TRUTH..YOU CAN EVEN PREDICT THEIR FUTURE.

call me karnak, but I see their future too. and it is not bright.

if the affairees stay together, it is NOT OUT OF LOVE...it is out of FUTILITY...why? so many people had to be damaged as a result of the affair, they'd best be damned happy and stick it out. that's the only way my xh and ow/w will ever stay married.

Let's see if say, six months or two years at most they are still singing the same tune. Let him have gas and toot while reading the morning paper on the john. let her have morning breath and have him see her shave her hairy armpits in the shower. let the REAL LIFE BEGIN!

I say let the affairees HAVE REAL LIFE! for nothing kills a fantasy better than a strong dose of real life. like expresso. a hot strong shot!

as for me, I just nod and smile too. I nod b/c I could care less to ever argue my point anymore..plus I am in an infinite plan "D". I don't fight. I am too tired of it all to ever argue my points anymore with him. I just nod. and from afar, behind my back, their home, just as sodom and gomorroah did, is crumbling and being destroyed because of their own actions.

it is sad but true.

DO NOT BELIEVE THE LIES.

Nothing happened to that standard. It stands true. It is what we all fight against.

What I think you're missing is that redemption can happen. Let me explain (an I am sure I will do poorly doing so as I am sleep-deprived with this little one).

I have been thinking about this because as my D nears as well, I still want my WH to "turn from his wicked ways" and be whole again. I worry about the life he will be living as a result of his sin and his actions. I think that as long as he is living in that sin--living with, haivng an affair with OP, etc, he will not be happy. Outside of God's will how can we be happy? Not truly happy.

And I am reminded that like Paul (Saul), God can take a man of great sin and make him into something God can use. But Paul of course was not a Christian when he was committing such atrocious sins. Paul, after REPENTING and being REDEEMED by God, I am sure had happy moments because he was living in God's will for the first time. BUT, as humans, though we can be redeemed, we still don't forget. Do you think that for one day, Paul didn't remember the hurt he caused, the devastation?

My WH is a Christian (unless I am wrong). I believe even after we are divorced, after we both have moved on, that God will still use my WH if he is willing to let God do so. If he is willing to REPENT, God will surely forgive him. And once my WH is living like God would have him to live, then I believe he will be happy again--the kind of happiness that MATTERS! I have to believe this, because the God I believe in loves us all--and we are all sinners. WS"s are sinners just like us. Actually knowing that my WH is not a lost cause to God helps me get through these bad times, because my heart hurts for him, not just for the pain he has caused.

But God does discipline us for our sins. And my WH will always have to live with what he has done, even though he will be forgiven by God.

As for the happiness you described--it is shortlived. The happiness that matters can only come with a repentive heart. Your marriage might not be reedemed, but I believe your WH can be. It is more important for God to have him back in His fold than for me to have him back home. Because ultimately that is the most important relationship.






You are allowed to move on. God wants his children to be happy--all of us. WS's too. But I do not believe WS's will be happy as long as they are unrepentant. And I find it hard to believe that a repentant WS can stay with his OP and truly be repepentant. The OP to me would always be a symbol of his sin.

I agree bad thing will happen if you do bad things, but so will good things. We all do bad things. Thankfully not as bad as adultery. But I don't view the affair marriage as a "good thing." To me, it is a "bad thing."

Feel free to ignore this post if it makes no sense. Like I said, I'm soooo sleepy, but I have to stay up as I am waiting for a family to check in.

Oh, he'll be happy enough. He's a conflict avoider to the highest degree, and if she lets him lie on the couch and watch TV all weekend and gives him regular sex he'll be happy as a clam.

I used to look around at my friends' husbands -- some of them were Home Depot weekend warrior types, some of them coached Little League and were superDad types, some of them were marathoner types and were really into bike riding or running, some of them were amateur political types into community affairs and on the library board, etc. My WH? He was happy to spend all weeekend, every weekend watching old Star Trek reruns. It would be a beautiful Saturday afternoon, plenty of stuff to do for fun or around the house, and he would be lying on the couch watching "Predator vs. Alien." Drove me nuts.

His OW hasn't known him since high school, and they're having a wonderful long-distance relationship punctuated by cruises and hot weekends. I'm not sure she knows what she's getting on a day-to-day basis. She's paid for the cruises and weekends and she paid for his lawyer b/c WH has no money; if I were a 36-year-old OW and having to pay for my boyfriend's divorce lawyer, that might set up a red flag that my beloved was a wee bit immature and bad with money.

I don't think he would break up with her, but she might dump him. She was the one who broke up with him after high school.

Hoopsie,

Your WH will not be happy because conflict avoiders can't be happy. They don't want to be happy, they want to be safe.

I believe the reason that APs don't make it is because they choose to believe that replacing people is the short-term answer to a life long problem. The very act takes away, deep within, any safety. They replaced and are replaceable.

Until they choose to believe otherwise, they will not make themselves happy...just relieved in the fantasy which doesn't last, which is only for the right now.

I believe you know this. In this post of yours, though, I feared you might also subscribe to this belief...comparing your WH to others gave me that impression.

I hope I'm wrong.

LA