Hey all
Just checking in. I have been running around like crazy to go away this week... all 4 of my kids are in a wedding in Fl this weekend...H-O-T! I still have to go out and get a bunch of stuff UGH! I hate to pack.

I had a crappy weekend. Sun night we got asked to a party and it was turning out to be a guys night. I was exhauseted from a long day and H came up and said is it ok if I go and I said yes then he felt bad about leaving so he stayed home. Long story short he got text message from them teasing him for staying home. He said should I text them back that I am p*&^$% whipped? I said no just leave it alone. He got up in the am before me and when I got up I checked his phone for the heck of it and he had sent the message I said he shouldnt. Ok no big deal but I asked him if he did later and he LIED and said he didnt. He said I make him feel like I am his mother so he didnt want to get in trouble but I have said 10,000 times NO MORE LIES!!!

I feel so horrible. I feel like now I dont know when he is lying to me!!! Hes so stupid! Why would he lie about somehting so dumb? I really feel sometimes I dont even know him. Like has everything been a lie? Some things dont jive about the A and now I feel lkie I cant believ a word he has said to me? Maybe he even loved he how the he*& would I know?

I have been crazy about this all day. I have no friends that know about this. It was all I could do not to hug one of my old friends I saw today and start crying. I have no one to bounce this stuff off you know? I am so grateful for you all.

I have to go pack but I hope everyone is well. MF I hope everything is ok.

CSJ
I agree with everyones great advise to you. And I commend you on your letter. Its sweet he kept it. Shows he wants to absorb it.

Drex
Sounds like you are doing great!

F&L
Its hot here too. I am dying. Trying to pack and the kids want to go in the pool! I am pulling an all nighter for sure.

Talk with you all soon.
HF

Hoping,

Glad to hear from you. Thank goodness it's cooling down. Supposed to rain later today and Thursday.

Just want you to know that you are not alone......my husband does the same thing. He lies about little stupid stuff. Then when I catch the lie - I ask him why? The things he lies about are so dumb - he could have told the truth in the beginning. When my husband lies - he gets this dumb grin on his face - I can always tell.

I think some guys are just like this - it's their nature. I guess it's just easier for them to lie at first. This doesn't mean they also lie about much more serious things. Your husband probably sent the message anyway, just so he could look more manly (saying you didn't want him to go -that's why he stayed home). Guys aren't as honest with each other, like women are. They can't look sensitive or act like they care about other people's feelings in front of each other - would make them look less of a man. Women are different in this respect.

Just try and forget about the incident - it will only make you get upset. Did you see the date my D-Day is coming up on - 6/6/6? I keep thinking about that - if it means something - very creepy.

I too, only talk to you guys about stuff when it's troubling me. My husband thinks I'm being totally ridiculous still upset about his affair.

You think it's hot now - wait till you get to FLA., it's so humid down there - you can't breath as soon as you get off the plane. Hope you have fun though. Is the whole family going? Is this the first time on the plane for the kids? That should be exciting for them.

Oh my gosh all my kids have been flying since they were babies. My first two were 6 weeks and 9 weeks. The twins were 7 months old we are a traveling family but they slowed us down a bit!

Thanks for you rwords of encouragement. Sometimes I dont knwo if I am doing the right thing. I want to be with him but I am so horrified by his actions sometimes I think maybe its a mistake. I see all these signs in town Single? and I think about it you know? Would it be so bad? I love him so much but is there someone out there who would cherish me like csj said someone who wouldnt do this?

I dont know. Normally I wouldnt care about a stupid lie like that but he is on double secret probation and he knows it. You would think he would want to tell the truth! He wants to be this NEW man. Get rid of the guilt etc. Ugh! Iam so sad and scared that he is not who I think he is.

Thanks for letting me vent!
HF

Hey HF-

Sounds like you are in a bit of a whirlwind with the traveling! But I hope you enjoy the trip and the time together. Build some nice memories together, you know?

And don't sweat the small stuff. I know that at this point, no dishonesty seems trivial at all, believe me! But I think the text message is simply something guys do in their caveman club. My H told me many times of whiny little comments his friends would say to him about their wives. He thought it was so funny! And then I would ask, "so what did you say about me?" And he would smile and say, "honey, I don't say a thing except that I am lucky."

And I believed him--how sweet! But now, I am no longer naive. I am sure he joined right in and complained about me, too. "My wife nags me . . ." "My wife is always late . . ." Whatever. I seriously think it's just the way that they beat on their chests and feel masculine. Just like we get together and say, "Honestly, can you believe what she was wearing??????" Same thing, just a different language.

He should be totally honest with you. They all should. But total honestly will never happen. There will always be little half-truths and shades of gray. We ALL do this in varying degrees, really. For instance--I lie to my kids about there being a Santa Claus. The important thing is the MOTIVE. Talk to him about this--if his primary reason for lying is ultimately undermining your marriage, then he has crossed a boundary and he needs to recognize that.

Anyway--I hope you really enjoy your trip. I feel like the trip I took with my H really helped us to grow together. It wasn't a magic pill that fixed everything, but just the time together helped me to feel like I am in a safe place again.

And MF--I hope you will read this tomorrow, because I have already checked off my assignment for this week! On my lunch break I stopped off at our local mom & pop shop "Dirty Joe's" and picked up my own copy of "The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Kama Sutra." I have only glanced at it, since I am at work. But I can report so far that it contains, ahem, quite a bit of detailed information. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I will provide my reader's review later--for everyone's benefit! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Take care everyone!

-C.

CSj
I am cracking up about the karma sutra book. Thats great. I cant wait to hear the review!

Thanks to you and F&L for calmingme down. I am not upset ato all about the text itself just the deceit. He has no wiggle room here for lies and I know I am probably being unreasonable its just that I am afraid it wont stop with the white ones and that when I ask him a question about the A I am getting the sugar coated version. Maybe thats the only one I need. who knows?

Our MC is big on just focusing on the now but I am stuck figuring out the past and cant get by it.

I just told my H he was lucky he was unreachable today till I got on MB b/c he was in trouuuuuble! So glad I found you all.
HF

HF-

Hang in there! I know it's hard not to get "stuck in the past." But honestly, what do they expect????? My H's affair has been over for almost 8 months now--and I'm sure that seems like a lifetime to him. But it is not to me. Flaws that I thought were small things before make me furious. He does things that I think are very selfish--things that probably helped him to justify his A, and they linger on. It is hard to look at my marriage and feel so . . . disappointed. I want my old marriage back. Sigh.

But I have hope, too--and I think you do also. At least we understand what the problems are, and we can work to fix them! And there really are a lot of success stories out there! Yet I know other people who are in really miserable marriages. Their spouses didn't cheat on them, but they are not happy. And they really can't point to what's wrong, either. I think I would rather deal with my current set of problems.

One day at a time . . .

And just really enjoy your trip!

-C.

CSJ
Yes I told H that this weekend I am just so dissapointed he said he was too in himself which made me a little hopeful. My biggest fear is that I dont know him. I never expected it and was so blind sided I just cant believe he is the same person.

My Hs affair has been over for 4 years he is completely over it and barely remembers it which is good in so many ways but bad because I dont remember how he was acting and I cant give myself the comfort in knowing I knew something was wrong I just dont remember. I do remember he planned a beautiful night for our 10th anniversary during the A. Totally surprised me with a limo to the hotel where we got married set up over night sitters roses in the room when we arrived. How he could do that and sleep with her a month later I will never understand...big sigh...so sad sometimes...

Hope everyone has a good weekend
HF

F&L -- This can be disarmed and turned into a joke. "Honey, guess who came to visit today? The laundry fairy stopped by. We had tea and crumpets while she enchanted the washer and dryer. We had a really good conversation regarding the state of affairs of your clothing in particular. Those darned socks are always getting into trouble. And it seems your underwear has started going to church. They've gotten rather holy."

Eventually, he's going to realize that the house simply doesn't clean itself. Dinner doesn't cook itself, groceries don't buy themselves and put themselves away. He knows all these things, he's just being "man". Here's what my gorgeous wife and I did to make sure there was none of that going on where she didn't think I wasn't doing anything.

Once a week, we sit down and make 3 lists. List "A" is the menu for the week. We take turns picking, or get the kids input, but we make a menu. List "B" is usually left up to me because it is the grocery list, but if you're taking turns cooking or cooking together, then do the list together too. List "C" is the to do list for the week. If he's at work and domestic support is high on his ENs list, he's going to eat this up.

You start the list by writing down all the things you do in a week to run the house. Laundry, ironing, go to cleaners, go to grocery store, meet with this teacher, go to that meeting, make the beds... Once you've put down everything you think of that you do (and make sure you do them lest he say something like, "You put paint the house on the list? You don't paint the house every day!") then get him to tell you what else he thinks is reasonable for you to accomplish during that week. Tell him weekends are off limits because that's your time with him. As you do these things, check them off and leave the list laying around where he'll find it. Give that a couple of weeks and see if it doesn't help with the, "I don't see you sweep the floor, therefore, you must not have done it" syndrome.


You're kidding right? You must live up north. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


It's not too much to ask at all. Have you asked for it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Us guys, we're not mind readers. And we're forgetful. If words of affirmation aren't his primary love language, he may not think of it as being yours. Even if you've done so already, get his undivided attention and very clearly state how much you would appreciate those kind of affirming words from him and how it would make you feel loved.

CSJ --
Well, it's been actually very good. Very busy, but very good. My kiddos are complaining that they're soooooo bored. It's summer break now, and there's NOTHING to do. Nevermind the plethera of kids that live in the neighborhood that they could play with, the bikes they could ride, the 42 million video games they have, the books they haven't read. If I'm not spending money, it can't possibly be fun, right? LOL Of course, all the activity we had over the weekend was forgotten as soon as they went to sleep.

DD10 will be DD11 this month. She's "developing" now. I get to laugh now because it's my darling wife's turn for the questions and the "shopping". DD10 folded a load of laundry for me yesterday while I was out because it had her new "things" in it and she didn't want me to see. LOL I asked her how it made her feel to fold my underwear. Suddenly, she wasn't so opposed to me folding her "things". LOL

I don't know if I had mentioned it on this thread or not, but there was a thread earlier about wedding rings and the wearing of them and why. Since d-day, my sweet wife had taken hers off. I never did. But I put hers on a chain and wore them around my neck. Well, Tuesday, my beautiful wife was messing with the clasp on the chain while I was wearing it, then asked me if she could have her ring back. Without getting all sappy here, I told her of course she could have it back. Then she thanked me for keeping it close to my heart by wearing it on that chain. We spent a lot of quiet time talking on Tuesday.

Tuesday night I made orange glazed chicken salad over 4 kinds of baby lettuce with freshly grated parmesian, fresh garden veggies and an orange vinegrette. The tiny little mandarin oranges around the outside of the plates was a neat touch for the kids too.

Wednesday, we had MC. It was a good session. The homework assignments are getting harder!!! It's like being back in school! LOL

HF --
I'll agree that having us here as a sounding board is nice. My suggestion for you is this. You have a best friend, right? My best friend is my wife. I confide everything in her. Some of her behaviors are also the cause of a great deal of my pain, so, you've got to have a back up friend. VERY IMPORTANT. It's got to be someone the same sex as you. Sometimes, you just gotta cry and get it all out, you know. As grown adults, we're not allowed to have little fits and temper tantrums, so you have to have this friend that isn't going to judge you when you do.

Having a confidant will not fix everything, but it will certainly help in those really tough times. If you start by telling your friend that you need someone to just listen and hand you tissues and not judge or try to fix, that takes them off the hook and they don't feel responsible when you unload. Friends, by nature, want to take care of each other. Idealy, you want to get to a place where your spouse is the person you want to just listen and hand you tissues. I get the feeling that you don't want to give your spouse that trust right now and by the way your spouse is acting, perhaps your spouse doesn't want it right now either.

Having a real person to vent to is so incredibly satisfying sometimes. So is this board. We can all give you (((HF))) here. We love being a support net for you. You can't be connected to us 24/7 though. You've going to make it. There's your mantra. Look at yourself in the mirror in the morning and say that a few times.

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Drex,

I've already told my husband about the "Magical Fairy" that does everything - he just said "Very funny wife" and that was it. My husband is a different Cave guy than you!

I've done the list thing many years ago, several times already - he looks at it real quick and tosses it aside - says, so, "What do you want a medal"? My husband is a very macho attitude guy; housework is woman's work, not his. This was always so, even when I worked full time and shuffled the kids back and forth to school and daycare. His father is the exact same way - "the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree". I've learned to live with this - I know many women wouldn't, but I love this macho man. I may be a "doormat" many times, but I realize I choose this. It gets very annoying sometimes though.

My husband DOES NOT COOK - if I get sick, or I'm too tired for some reason - his idea of dinner is, "Girls, make yourself something to eat, mommy is sick today". When I used to work full time and he was on vacation that week, he would wait till I got home - waited for me to cook dinner. He'll open up his gourmet dinner - a can of Progresso Soup - or if we have hot dogs - that's his specialty - hot dogs boiled in water. He'd never think of cooking something on the grill in the summer. If he ever fries anything - he'll clean his dish - but leaves me the dirty frying pan - says he's leaving it to soak.

I'll tell you a funny story....Several years ago, my husband decided to vacuum the play room, because as he said it was a mess. Not only didn't he see my daughter's Barbie doll on the floor, but he vacuumed her hair and got it stuck in the vacuum. He finally got it out - then he proceeded to vacuum and caught the topper(a table cloth) on top of the table. Needless to say the topper had black grease marks all over it. He tried, but my daughter was very upset when I came home, because Barbie now had hair only on one side!

Believe me Drex, there are more guys like my husband, than like you. Not many men would do what you do. Even if I went to work again full time and my husband would stay home as a "house husband", he would never do all the things you do. He’s still expecting me to do everything - just the way he is.

Another story......When I broke my foot 3 yrs. ago - the first day I came home with a crutch - that night he made soup to eat for the kids - ok. I went to bed that night, had to crawl up the stairs. The next morning, he went to work - I crawled down the stairs. The girls fed themselves - they are good.

During the day - I couldn't make myself anything because I had the crutches - I kept dropping my cup of coffee, because I couldn't carry the cup and use crutches at the same time. When my husband came home that night, he sat down on the couch - I said I can't cook - he said, "Make the girls cook - they're old enough now".

Three days went by - the laundry was piling up. He told me to let it go till I felt better. Mind you, I had the foot in a cast for 8 weeks. What I had to finally do was sit on my butt and drag the laundry basket up stairs, step by step and hop around the house, from counter to counter to cook and clean dishes.

So far as asking him to give me compliments, a boy you’re a great wife, boy you're attractive - I've asked him this so many times - I couldn't even tell you. When I ask him this - he always just says, "You know you're a good wife - why do you want me tell you all the time - you know I'm not good at expressing my feelings - why are you so insecure?"

So you see, Drex......I've put up with this for a long time....yet, he was the one who cheated. Many people told me over the years that I spoiled him - I do too much for him - I should have made him do stuff from the beginning. I guess I should have. But, I always thought if you treat your husband like a "King" he would treat you like a "Queen" - guess it doesn't work that way. The better I treated him - the more he expected and the worse he treated me. Sad but true.

And yes, 85 is hot – especially when it’s so humid. You think we’re not used to the hot weather cause we’re from up north – how’d you like to be in our cold weather – 0-10 degrees and a foot of snow – winds howling at 30 miles an hr. I bet that changes your mind a bit.

I'm going to hire you as our cook - Orange glazed chicken over lettuce - mmmmmm, that sounds very good.

Hope all is ok with all of you ladies.

Afternoon everyone!

It sounds like everyone is doing pretty well, such good news!

Drex-I love the story about your wife's ring. That is too sweet. My H actually started wearing his after DDay. He had not worn it at all since we were married, because he was never able to get it to fit (he has caveman hands <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> with big knuckles--so that to get it big enough to fit over the middle of his finger, it is way too big for the bottom of his finger). So in all these years he just didn't wear it. But then we were eating Thanksgiving dinner at his mom's house, and I was just a zombie feeling like I wanted to die, when I noticed that he was wearing his ring. That was the first sign to me that he was truly sincere in wanting to make things work. Of course, he stopped wearing it again: "It really is so uncomfortable, honey!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

F&L--I know what you mean about not getting the kudos from hubby. Mine is not much for handing out compliments, either. He loves that joke about they guy who tells his wife, "I told you when we got married that I love you, and if that ever changes, I'll let you know." Those are his words to live by. Once in a while he'll tell me dinner was good.

H was very pleased with our new book. I just causually told him I picked up a new book for us both to read. He looked skeptical, "what book???" I handed it to him and he got a naughty little look on his face.

I haven't read much so far, but I will say this much--it works great! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'll check back later, all!

-C.

Hi,

Drex....wearing the wedding band is a good sign - I forgot to mention that to you.

CSJ......my husband gained 50 lbs. over the 21 yrs. that I've been with him - his fingers also got larger during these years. He started complaining many years ago that the ring was getting small - so I immediately took him to the jeweler to have it made larger. He was trying to give me the baloney also, that he thought maybe he shouldn't wear it - lots of guys don't. BALONEY ON THAT!!!!

His fingers again are getting larger - maybe time to have it resized again. We're going to be married 20 yrs. this January - he promised, because of all the crap I went thru, that he would buy me a diamond engagement and wedding band. Maybe at that time he could get a new, larger one too. On this anniversary, the OW filed harassment charges against him - nice anniversary present, huh???

We are going to renew our vows.

My husband always tells me when I need a compliment, "I'm here aren't I? If I didn't love you I wouldn't be sitting in the house. I go to work everyday - don't I? What else do you want? Those guys that constantly buy flowers and do things for their wives, do it because they are doing something sneaky - the're probably cheating on them."

He too, once in a while says dinner was good - well usually, he just says he's full - that's about it.

Drex...I forgot, when I ask my husband what he wants for dinner...all he says is FOOD!!!! He never gives me any suggestions for dinner - he could care less - as long as it fills his stomach and tastes good.

F&L -- First, I just want to say that I am boggled that any of you put up with that. I mean, cleaning, cooking, playing taxi for the kids... And not a thank you. He must be doing an aweful lot to make you feel loved. I mean, you're sticking around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I'm going to play devils advocate for a minute so don't flog me. LOL

Obviously words of affirmation and praise are big ENs for you. You wrote a rather lengthy post about it. If he were to say to you that dinner was great and the house looked good, you'd probably feel loved, right? This is your big love language. You want to feel recognition. It's big for me too so I know where you're coming from.

I don't know that your husband is a different cave guy than I am. I think he's just still fascinated by fire is all. What is his love language? Domestic support? Family committment? What is it and are YOU speaking that language to him? Learning a second language is hard. Learning a second language when you don't know what the language is is impossible. (I'm pulling this out of a Gary Chapman book. It's a good read, called 5 love languages and is almost hand in hand with Dr. Harley's stuff.)

I can see this as one of two things. One, your husband is speaking the love language that he knows. The one that is important to him. Like Dr. Harley says, you get caught up doing the things for your spouse that would make you feel good... Or Two, he's not trying to speak your language at all because you're not speaking his. Have you two done an ENQ recently? I'm sure you realize that ENs change like every 10 minutes during the rough times. LOL Ok, so that's hyperbole, but still.

My awesome wife and I have decided that doing the ENQ once every couple of months is a good idea for us right now. It makes sure we're staying on track of where we're supposed to be AND it shows progress, or lack of progress. Just don't look at the previous ENQ until you've finished the new one. Make sense?

But I digress. It also sounds like one of your ENs is Domestic support. "He has never done a load of laundry, leaves me the frying pan etc." What is his idea of domestic support? Does he leave his clothes lying around for you to pick up or does he put them in the hamper? Does he cut the lawn or do you do that or is someone paid to do it? Do you have gutters? Who cleans them? Does he leave his dish on the table or does he put it in the sink?

Sometimes, we get stuck focusing on the one thing we're not getting and we forget about the things we are getting. I'll be the first to raise my hand and admit that I've done that. Food for thought. Gotta run. I'll be back tomorrow.

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You know, F&L, I think Drex has a point here. I am all for each partner being "cherished" like I said in my previous post. I like to do special things for my H--it makes me feel good to do something for him that I know he will enjoy, and I am sure that you feel the same way. I am willing to bet that your H does feel cherished all of the time. He has a wife who treats him like a queen!!!!

But this should be a two-way street. You should feel special, too. He should be able to recognize, caveman or not, that acknowledging what you do for him makes you feel special. I am wondering if he has read SAA???? Maybe it would register a bit if the idea came from an "expert."

Another thing I have learned since coming here is that if you give and give and give, your partner may start to feel a sense of entitlement. Instead of feeling that "my beautiful wife does all these things for me because she loves me, and I love her" the "entitled" spouse will feel that "my wife SHOULD do these things for me, because that is what I require."

Now, that being said, I do recognize there are limitations here. Do not forget that I am married to a caveman too! My H is not a big one for throwing out complements, as I have said before. This is one thing I want him to work on for me. I do not expect him to become perfect in this area, but I do expect him to make an effort. Just like I am making an effort for him. And he is doing a bit better. He can be taught! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And really, shouldn't your husband at least throw you a bone here!

Anyway, I'll check back tomorrow!
-C.

Hi All,

First thing....I don't know how religious any of you are....but MamaFish is going thru some difficult times right now....if you could send her some prayers and good wishes.....

Drex and CSJ....I totally agree with both of you.

Drex......my husband will not read or take time out to fill out any EN questionnaire...he thinks the stuff on here is a bunch of baloney. He thinks everything is fine, affair is finished, done - let's move on - why bring up stuff like that. To him I'm badgering him, nagging him when I ask him things like that. He will not start doing stuff that reminds him of his affair - he wants to make believe it didn't happen - he thinks nothing is wrong. That's why he stopped going to the MC - he thought he was wasting his time and money.

I told you, I've asked him time and time again - I'd like some compliments, help around the house, etc. Not just now, that I'm home, but when I worked full time. I had the same load of work, plus a full time job.

My husband likes to be catered to and yes requires it - it's just the way it is. He has told me if I don't like it - I can find someone else who caters to me - he is just not like that - he is not going to change for any one. Believe it or not - the OW told him I treat him bad, that I nag him to help me - she would never talk to him like I do - she would treat him like a "real man". I really think this stuck in his head. I don't know how much more I can do for him.

My husband thinks he goes to work - he goes early and comes home after 6:00. He thinks that should be it. He says he works hard - he doesn't do physical work - it's in an office - he expects to sit down when he comes home. He does have a side business that he works on the computer every once in a while, so he does some work at night sometimes.

Yes, my husband does mow the lawn once a week - we have almost an acre - it takes me 2 days to do it, if I do it. But sometimes, he's very reluctant to do it. But even after the mowing, there's a lot of other stuff to do in the yard, pruning, weeds, planting, watering - he doesn't care about this. I've told him if he's too tired, let's get someone to do it - he won't hear of it. Maybe once a year he does the gutters. He does put his clothes in the hamper - its right in the closest. But, he has a habit of folding his dirty clothes and putting it on the top shelf. He has piles of dirty clothes on the top shelf - why????

You know, it's not that I mind so much doing all the work that I do - it's that I never get any recognition - no thank you's - that's why I get upset. I realize that he works hard, that's why I do all the stuff - I'm trying to make his life comfortable. I laid down the 3 tons of rocks and nothing. I told him, do you want to see what I did with the rocks - on the day I was finished - he said not now. So finally, a day or two later I said come outside and see what I did - he came outside and said nice. You know, like, no big deal.

So many people have told him what a hard working, wonderful, beautiful wife he has. The guys he used to work with told him many times how lucky he was. Yeah, and he was boinking some ugly bit—in the office! He even asked one single friend in his office, when the guy was getting married – he told my husband – when he was getting a divorce from me – I’m looking for a woman like your wife – you’re a lucky guy. I always told my husband I get these compliments from everyone else, but not the man I love! That’s the only compliment that I really want!

Sometimes, I just feel like going on strike - but that would hurt my girls. If I did, then I'd just have a bigger mess to clean up. God forbid if I ask him to do something - his fist response is "Don't tell me what to do - I'll do it when I want". He has this thing, that I can't ask him to do anything - and I don't mean that I yell at him and tell him DO THAT! I say something like, "You know the grass is getting long, do you think you can mow it weekend?"

Sometimes, he does the dishes (after he had the affair) - but very rarely before - hdmestic support - forget it, in this house. A lot of his values were handed down from his father. His father is worse. He doesn't do a darn thing - my M-I-L waits on him hand-and-foot - he expects that. I won't go into that. I told you when my F-I-L found out about my husband's affair - he told my husband if I didn't like it - I can leave! It's a man's nature to cheat!!!!

Our MC told my husband he has a lot of deep rooted values and told me he has to want to change - if he doesn't, I have to live with it or leave. I choose to stay. He's been this way for over 20 yrs., but as the years go by - he gets worse. He was ok for a while after D-Day, but that stopped in a couple of months. Now, in his mind, he thinks everything is back to normal - so he should go back to normal. It seems, the more I do for him, the more he expects.

I told you when my husband and I were posting on here months ago - the people on MB told me to leave him, because of the way he used to post on here. No one agreed with his posts. He had so many justifications for his affair and his values about home life, etc. So, after getting bashed so many times - he went off saying the people on here weren't professionals and he wasn't going to take any advice from them. The people on here are just a bunch of whining, complaining people and feeling sorry for themselves - like me.

F&L -- I really don't envy your situation. I'm very sorry that you're putting up with such nonsense. It amazes me how women will stay in abusive relationships because they "love" their husbands. You are a bright and smart woman. I fail to understand why you choose to remain in a situation that is not getting any better.

Obviously, the decision to stay or leave your husband is yours. If you decide that you can put up with the crap sandwiches he serves you, well, you've got tougher skin than I do. My biggest concern is that he's teaching your girls, indirectly, that this is how women are supposed to be treated. Not only is he teaching them, but you are too. While your words may say it's not ok for him to be like that, your actions say otherwise.

I'm not knocking you at all. Everyone's life is unique and I don't know all the ins and outs of yours. When he says, "If you don't like it, go find someone else..." that's a dare. He's taunting you to do it because he knows you won't. Kind of like the school yard bully. He'll pick on someone because he knows they won't fight back.

I haven't read all of your thread regarding your affair and discovery so I don't know your reaction and your response to him. There's a lot of history that I would have to read up on. 7 years ago, when I found out about my wifes second affair (which, in new light, turned out to be her 5th or 6th) we played the silly game of sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. We did that after my ONS and her confession of her first affair too.

Our responses to each others betrayals weren't strong enough to provoke a change in behavior. I'm scared that your response wasn't strong enough. I'm scared that you're internalizing a lot of anger and resentment toward him and that one day you're just going to explode. I'm scared that you might actually be enabling his behavior by not responding strongly enough.

I know I've made some tough statements. Some of those statements would more than upset a lot of people. I want you to know that I'm just expressing my opinion and I'm not trying to preach. I empathize with you and when I read about some of the things he does, I feel that pain too because I've experienced it.

My father was a physically abusive man to his children. He has anger issues that stem from God knows what. It's so bad that last year, he punched my sister in the jaw a week before her wedding. There's more to that complicated story, but the point I'm getting at is I'm going through a lot of IC to "unroot" the values that were ingrained into me. I've never been abusive to my kids or my wife. Fighting absolutely abhores me. When you experience trauma as a child, you learn to behave one of two ways. You learn that it's ok to behave that way or you learn to be so far on the opposite extreme of that behavior that it could be OCD. Quick example...

When I was a kid, everything in my house was blue. The walls, the carpet, the curtains, the plates, the silverware, the linens, the birds, the furniture, even the cars! Up until a year ago, I hated blue. Couldn't stand it. My eyes were blue and I couldn't look in the mirror. I wanted colored contacts. I could have just as easily loved blue. Extreme exposure to a stimulus causes extreme reactions.

Whatever you decide to do, I'll be supportive, even if I don't understand. I always shoot straight and hardly ever candy coat anything so count on my to call you on things sometimes.

MF -- Lean to the left in your chair, now lean to the right. Now, lean forward, and finally lean back and relax. Great, I just wanted you to be moved by something I said. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Without knowing a thing about what you're going through, I will say this. Christ's love is ever present in you. Through faith, you will endure and emerge triumphant in the face of your foe. Remember this one? "Ye are the light of the world." You're carrying Christ's light! He has loved you enough to let you be an example to the rest of the world. From what I've seen here, you're doing a fine job. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will pray for you and your family. Find comfort in God's arms. "Ask and ye shall receive..." You will be ok.

I gotta run folks. Have a great day! (snort) I say I gotta run and in actuality I just ran a 5k this morning with my wife.

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Drex.....thanks for listening. I chose to stay in this marriage because I love my husband. As long as he loves me, and is faithful, that's all that I ask for, but he can throw some appreciation once in a while also. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Delete away.

Afternoon everybody!

F&L- Sigh. I wish I had some answers for you. It sounds like you have been through the "gratitude & appreciation" thing backwards and frontwards in MC. And I suppose, in the end, your counselor is right--a person has to want to change. And if your H has no desire to change, he never will. That would leave a pretty sour taste in my mouth, to have all my contributions just go unnoticed. I actually felt that way during my H's affair--that whole year. He wanted his dinner ready when he came home. He would take his plate and go eat upstairs by himself. No thanks--nothing. Sometimes even a complaint. "I'm tired of that--why do you make it?" I just kept telling myself that he was depressed, or stressed, and instead of getting mad I worried about him. But I felt less and less desire to do anything for him. Then when I found out he was cheating on me the whole time . . . and treating me like sh*t on top of everything . . . . Suffice it to say I will not go through this again. Once is plenty.

So he's being faithful to you, and there must be other positives there. I mean, you're a catch and a half, and you fell in love with him! And I know he's a handsome devil, so there's that. Just make sure you look out for you, okay? You have to be an advocate for yourself. Your H has quite a prize in you, and I would think it would bring him some satisfaction treat his amazing wife well. And I am sure that on some level, he does recognize all that you do for him. I doubt he was ever tempted to leave you for the OW--he knows that no one would give him what you do. He just needs to find a way to show you some acknowledgment. His LB is overflowing all the time--and you need some too!

Anyhow, we are doing well here. My H is planning another trip--this time to Vegas to see the national finals rodeo in December. He knows that I like to travel, and it's never been his thing. For example, I went to Paris--one of the world's most romantic places . . . with my sister. Still my favorite place I've ever been, and I plan to take my girls when they are big enough (H can come too, if he wants to). But H had no interest. I went to Scandinavia with my parents--again H didn't want to go. So the fact that he is now planning some vacations means a lot to me.

Have you folks ever been to a rodeo? Drex maybe--you're from the South, right? But I don't think rodeos are big in the NE. They are really quite fun, though. We have a big one here every July and it's a real kick. But please don't picture me as a cowgirl, okay?

And last night H mentioned that a high school girl he sees at work (he's currently assigned to the high school) came up to him and said, "so is your wife as high maintenance as she looks?" This really irritates me, first of all, because women don't call someone high maintainance and mean it as a compliment. But he said he laughed at her and said "she is the farthest thing from that." So he is really sticking up for me--which is what a husband should do--but it makes me happy anyway. And we just talked and talked for the longest time--I feel like we are really connecting again. I keep thinking "yeah--that's why I fell in love with you!"

Anyway--I hope all is well with everyone. HF must be on her trip--hope for a good report when you get back!

MF--I have had you in my prayers almost every night for quite a while now. All will be well.

Have a good weekend, and I'll check in again Monday!

-C.

CSJ.....

Yes, my husband does have some good qualities and I remember the man I married. If I left....would I know I would get someone better....or would he be worse? I'm not a kid.....I can't go thru this again. I said to all of you - I don't mind doing all I do - but a little recognition once in a while would suffice. A little - you're the best wife and the most beautiful would also do. I do get this once in a while - after I cried and told him how much I needed this - that's when he says it. Says he doesn't know why he treats me like he does - says he doesn't realize. I want him to say it before I cry -not after! Physically, we've always gotten along so well, maybe that's part of it. He could be so nice at times - but so hurtful and neglectful at others. When he's nice to me - I just forget about everything. What can I say?

He knows how good he has it - he's been told this many times before - not from me - but other people. He also knows I am attractive, but I would have no one else but him. I think this makes his ego even bigger. It's almost like he thinks, I can do whatever I want - she's good looking, but she won't do anything - she only wants me.

After he came to his senses - he realized the OW could never be like me, not in looks, body, personality, smarts, compassion and the strength I have. I don't want to offend anyone, but I've had 5 kids and I don't have any stretch marks and my boobs are not saggy or small. Yet, the OW is the complete opposite - he didn't realize this till he was intimate with her. I guess he thought everyone was like me. Well....that's past history....

CSJ....I know how you feel about the time during the affair...I went thru the same thing....being ignored, argued with - I just didn't know why. I tried everything I could to make his life happy....only to have him ignore me and argue more.

My girls always ask why did I marry dad. I said because I loved him then and I love him now. They told me they don't want to marry a man like dad. Usually they want someone just like their dad - in this case they don't. Me, on the other hand wanted someone just like my dad. My dad and mom loved each other, did everything together? I know in my heart if my mom wouldn't have died - they'd still be together. Until my dad was unable to speak - he still only spoke of the woman he loved - my mom. This is love!!!! I guess this is what I always looked for!!!

A rodeo....not here....we have horses where in my area, because people have property – acres like you. I rode on a horse once in my life - I got black and blue marks on the inside of my legs. The horse showed me his teeth - I thought he was going to bite me and I am short - couldn't get up on the horse. I like smaller animals, like dogs, cats, hamsters – they’re big enough for me. We have deer, skunks, rabbits and opossums in our back yard at times. They’re a pain because they eat my veggies and flowers.

I'd love to go to Europe on day too. I'd like to go back to Hungary and visit my distant relatives. My dream has always been to visit Egypt – I was an ancient History major in school. I love the study of Archeology. I saw the King Tut exhibit when it came to NY – absolutely fantastic. My girls are the same way. We always watch the discovery channel when they have something on Mythology or ancient civilization.

I spoke to MF a couple of times today – wished her well. Hope you can give her some good advice.

Take care,

Hi all
Just back from vacation. We had fun. Kids had a blast!

I only had time to skim but sounds like there was some action for you csj huh? If so I am very happy for you and I think it will really help in the healing process. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mama
I am so worried for you I hope you dont have something else besides your already stressful situation. You have been so strong and inspirational to me. I will keep you in my prayers tonite as usual. I wish you all the best.

Hi to everyone else. I will go back and catch up later..so much to read and everyone needs a tubby! Hope all is well.
HF