LA... you and I have been going down this road together for about 2 years now... and for 2 years I've been making the same mistakes over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over... you get the point.

At this rate, I don't know if I'll ever be ready to be this, or any other relationship again. That's a stretch. I know. Seriously though... I mean... I know I make progress. I guess I just keep falling back into old habits and not even realizing it. This is extremely hard to do on my own, and it's not like I know anyone that is a heavily positive influence out here. My family, my friends, my WW. Everyone I associate with on a regular basis has issues far worse than mine... I'm frustrated. I'm doing some right things for the right reasons, some right things for the wrong reasons... and even some wrong things for the wrong reasons. That last part seems to happen when I'm doing things out of habit and not thinking about it. Doesn't help when the things I am thinking about, that kind of just slip in, reinforce how I'm handling things. It's like a snowball effect. Something triggers it. A thought, an event... something. Then, these instinctive thoughts kick in... then they build, then I'm back to what ifs, and she doesn't love me, then i beat myself up because she's beating me up (even when she's not - just by not giving me what I'm looking for). I read into things, create these even crazier ideas in my head... then i beat myself up some more, then beat her up for not loving me enough, and not being able to forgive me and thinking that breaking up our family is for the best, and for being with OM (especially for that, because 2 wrongs don't make a right and what I did was bad enough) ... and that's when i realize that I've gotten out of control again. Because I know I've already beat her up and shouldn't have, and why do that to someone you love, and why make things worse? and haven't I already owned what I did, and forgiven myself? and can't I accept that she is who she is, and is doing what she's doing, and making choices and things are the way they are... and then I try to just push everything to a corner of my mind where I'm not going to see it for a time.

So, now that I'm done freaking out because I read your post... and it gave me the feeling that I have to start all over again because I'm back at square one.

but I'm not. and all that up there was an over reaction. I'm done. Thanks for your patience.

I have been doing better. I haven't been falling into that pattern up there nearly as often over the last few weeks. I think that telling myself to let go (for the wrong reasons) has helped me to start taking a step back for the right ones. I'm not (as) afraid of her. though I'm still having a hard time finding the ability to say anything to her at odd, infrequent times, or not being able to look her in the eye without feeling like I'm staring. I'm afraid that she'll snap at me if I do either of those things, and say or do something that will completely destroy me. Not that she could... duh.

We talked pretty good yesterday morning, but at night I clammed up. She tried a tiny bit, but I was too chicken to keep the ice breaker going, stood dumbfounded, dying for something to say but too mentally focused on the problem to come up with anything and she clammed up too and booted me out.

I've been having those dreams again off and on too. I wake up, start thinking about things. I know I don't need to be, for the right reasons, and try to stop and go back to sleep, but then I catch myself doing it again... it kind of just happens. I start getting mad at my mind for doing things that i don't want it to because it's gotten to the point where I'm trained to do it... so then i end up getting up and doing something to pass the time. Distracting myself until my head is done doing it's thing and I can get back to being free of that crap again. On the nights that I don't have them, and it's been about a week or so, I sleep better. Correction. I sleep less, but feel better in the morning. Which for me is normal and a good thing, because I've never needed much sleep to feel refreshed.

So... overall though... I haven't given things much thought lately. The down side to that is that I forgot to call to see how DD's follow-up appointment went. I guess that it's not that I forgot to call. The problem was that I was so focused on not thinking about things for a couple of days there that I didn't stop to think that I should call. That's kind of sad really, but I apologized, explained that I didn't have a good excuse other than having alot on my plate at the time... and she knows that I do this at times, though very infrequently, and then we discussed it. Easy enough.

This is all getting easier for me. I've done alot less thinking and alot more accepting over the last week or so. I've been staying away from posting because I saw where my posts were going and figured I needed to take a different approach. I think part of my posting problem too was that you took a break, and I thought "Great, just when I was getting on track again." but taking time away fro myself to reflect and relax did me some good, and I'm back here and feeling better about things again.

I have this goal as of right this moment. I would like to try to stop measuring my progress by my posts here, and by anything else as well. Because measuring my progress gives me reason to believe that I have the potential for failure. Then I start wondering if I am. Then I start to believe that I have to do this, this and this or I'm not a good person and am creating problems for others and ruining my chances of being in this, or any other relationship ever. and then I get real stoopid and start finding the same failures in others and thinking... I don't want to associate with and be influenced by failures. I have enough problems. and then I go D'oh. because I just set myself back a step or five. I'm judging people? Ouch. and Haven't i done of that already, for Pete's sake??? and holding others accountable for how I feel, act think etc... how did I wind up this messed up? Oh yeah. I remember now. I got confused and made choices.

insert your post here, because I tried and messed up. heh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I've long since forgiven myself I suppose, and have made attempts to own what I've done. I was able to do that I think around the time that I understood what had happened and why. Forgive myself, try to fully own my stuff. Problem is, I'm not catching myself acting on poopie ideas. or fully comprehending what I'm doing. I guess? Sounds odd. but I really used to be quite good at all of this, but maybe that's the problem. At some point when i got older I started making bad choices, and really having an impact on the lives of others with those choices. Now I've had to take a hard look at what I am doing vs what I've done before, and take things that used to be everyday fro me and really apply myself to understanding them instead of just doing them. Make sense?

So...

Solution: Marriage fixed, life goes on, we're all happy eventually.

Problem: WW.

Neither of which is right.

and throw into the equation the crazy idea that. Forgiving myself means moving past what I did, and knowing that I made a mistake... and I'm ready to get my life back on track. But WW is in my way. and that last part is just nonsense.

Me. <--- somebody that needs to keep in mind that forgiving doesn't make what you did all better. and that ownership of ones actions means more than accepting that you did them to get to the point of forgiveness. it means forgiving but not forgetting. and that other people will do the same... for themselves, if they choose. Not because it needs to be done to do the right thing, and not because you told them to, or tried to get them to see that it's right.

I got there for the EA... forgiving and kind of owning, but I think there was a lesson in there that I missed. That, and I was still freaking out at the time of the other A. Made that choice of A over M because I hadn't gotten my act together. Wasn't owning my choices, my life. I was putting it in her hands still, and when she didn't try to make things better I panicked and took the easy, selfish way out that gave immediate short term results and tried to get revenge at the same time. I made an even bigger mistake in the 2nd A than already had with the 1st, for the same reasons, but with all new excuses for having those reasons. Make sense? From a cruddy perspective? makes sense, but ain't right.

I look back on it now and I'm like... Wow. How stupid did I get? Not that I'm stupid. Didn't have my stuff together. Too busy worried about hers to keep my mind on me, and on what I should have known to be right. and trying too hard to fix me. and thinking that she had something to do with that. and thinking I'd made progress I hadn't.

It was alot of things.

Need to remember too that ownership doesn't set results in stone. Ownership = I'm screwed. <--- False.

Also Ownership = blame yourself <--- False also... that one is a little harder I've either been blaming myself, or when I tire of doing that I blame her. Wishing she'd own. So we could forgive ourselves and/or each other. but really just get back together and be a family. Heaven knows I've been dying for that, and creating things that are stopping it from happening or such nonsense. and seeing that she is too... and wanting to kick some butt... or just say stop! and have it happen.

I see them though... the things I do, or think, or say. Though not so much now. I know they are there when they are, and they are real if I let them be. but, generally, I let them be there and there they stay. Dwelling on themselves. Instead of me doing it for them. So, while my head is trying to do it's thing with old habits, I do something else until it's done... then go about my day and working to live the life I want, and not the life my habits would me living.

Yeah, there are times when i catch myself looking for new solutions to my problems... or new spins on old solutions. Instead of staying with the ones I've found here. Looking for an easier way out sometimes. Usualy when I'm really stressed and things feel overwhelming. Not often, and I never act on them if I manage to catch myself trying. hasn't happened in quite some time. I've made more progress since the last time I said it. Hands down. I'm doing pretty good, making sure I don't fall off the wagon.

So... enough about all that.

I couldn't bring her ice cream. Frown. I got sick the week of her surgery and stayed sick for about 2 weeks. Didn't want to take any risks, and wound up missing a Sunday of visitation in the process. Went from being set to go to the hospital, to spending extra time with her (and round abouts WW) to no time for 2 weeks. Lousy cold. So I got her a good card, and a cool gift and we ate a ton of ice cream the following Sunday to make up for it.

Made me extremely mad... I get sick of all the times it could happen and ofcourse OM winds up spending more time with her and sees her before I do after the surgery. Really wanted to hate WW and wish OM dead for that... but got over that after a few minutes and realized that you can't win them all, and that this is all part of the choices that WW continues to make. I let it go at that.

Thought I should say... I love WW and DD. With everything I have. Want us to be together, as a family... but WW keeps making choices, and hasn't gotten rid of OM... I find myself accepting that more lately. Even kind of getting used to the idea of them being together and the idea doesn't bother me so much anymore. It bothers me alot that it's not me they are or will be with all the time, but doesn't bother me so much that she isn't choosing me. If she doesn't love me, or want me in her life anymore than she has to, or anything like that... I can't force it. I can only live my life according to what comes my way. So I figure, let her make her choices... and if I'm not what she chooses then my life will go in a different direction... and when the time comes I'll try to make the best choice I can make. Doesn't mean i don't love her, or DD, or that I'm giving up or won't be a part of their life. It means that I can't go my whole life being miserable over something I don't have control over.

I gave them their Valentine's Day presents. DD liked hers alot. I played it safe with WW. Got her a funny card, and some quality candy that didn't come in a heart shaped box... but was something I knew she liked. They got me stuff, and a cute card. They got me stuff too. A cute card, some cool stuff, some candy. I don't know how much of WW was in that bag, or what how she felt whehn she bought it and signed the card. I don't know, and won't ask. I think the smart/wise thing to do is to appreciate what I get, and let it go at that. No more of this "She loves me, she loves me not" garbage. If she does, she'll tell me and we'll leave it at that. Sounds like a solid plan.

V-Day was tough that night. I called and left WW and DD messages on their repsective cell phones, but neither of them called me back. I took that hardish. My sister called me that night and left a message on the machine. Said we'd go to the bar and find me a woman because the bars would be full of single women that night. Not a chance of that happening, let me tell you. Seems like not going is the obvious choice to me, but I'll tell you... it felt especially good to make it. That night I went to bed feeling cruddy-ish but ok with evetything, and I had very another bad dream. Woke up feeling better despite that? but couldn't stop thinking about everything for a couple hours because of the dream. Tried to stop, but thoughts were just there creeping in every time I tried to go back to sleep. I was getting pretty mad at whatever part of my head just wouldn't let it go. Sounds pretty silly, telling your brain, out loud at 2am to "cripes, just stop already." Obviously it did nothing to say it. So I patiently waited it out and then got back to sleep. Kind of weird. If I didn't know that I'm sane, I'd start to wonder.



You love to hear about presents? I love presents!!! Holidays are awesome. I love giving just as much as I love getting!! They got me a bunch of Yoda stuff, and some candy I like. good stuff too. and some other things. We did our V-Day gift excahnge that Sunday... not on V-Day.

That Sunday I wondered for a split second some time after if those two (OM and WW) got each other anything, and what... and anger anger anger was where that was headed and so I put the brakes on it faster than I could blink. Thanked them (WW and DD) both for the stuff a couple times that day. Talked pleasantly and joked and was smiles and happy times enough despite the bad vibe I got from her and then went home that night to brood for 15 minutes just to say that I did. Some of the day was easy, some of it wasn't... and the quick brooding was for the time that it was a little rougher that I set aside my feelings so I could enjoy that rough time too.

Sorry if this is sloppy. I'm in a hurry, with alot to say.

So yeah, I've been good. Doing better than my previous doing better. Which is awesome! Not perfect, but who is and that would be measuring success. No, I'm just glad that things are getting easier, and that I'm alive and living.

How have you been??? done with your break, or are you taking a break from your break? and thatnks fro checking in. :OD

I'm bummed out today.

Not beating myself up, or depressed or anything. Just bummed out a bit. I really miss DD and (W)W today. I'm kicking myself in the pants, just a little bit, over how I'm a stupid jerk and did the things I did. I've always been a goody two-shoes for the most part. It sucks that I messed this up. I don't know. Just wanted to share.

I'm having a fairly good day... just a little down in the dumps about that I guess. Not giving it any real thought. I don't know how to describe it. Whatever works.

not much else going on I guess?

Inf,

If you truly are sick of making the same choices and expecting different results...then you will stop making those choices. You know this.

Why don't you begin here? Start a new thread in Infidelity GQII which summarizes your last two years...with ownership...you can link to this thread in your sigline.

Then state exactly what you want...to the detail...in your life...your goal for your marriage...and what routine you are establishing in your daily choices to obtain that goal?

Could include...getting counseling...establishing transparency with your NC with APs...and with those who are not acting as a friend of your marriage...even relatives...until they do...

I know you got to right here...and you got it...then you got BACK to right here again...and now you're where you were just before you tanked it yet again with your WW.

Cycles have reasons...they have false payoffs that don't look false to you...some are under your radar...still is your radar, Inf. Only you control your own.

You've had two years to get this...and guess what? You said in one year of separation you'd be divorced....and you are not...you are married, still.

I don't see your DD in counseling, either, for this huge trauma in her life...what lessons she's learning (turn a blind eye, avoid conflict and stuff your stuff...then explode and it'll be okay)...or what she really believes.

Ask yourself if you truly believe you've done all you possibly can to save your marriage...where you are proud to share with your DD your plan, your goal, and what you did/didn't do...what you learned.

Even to ask your WW to stop her A? To ask your friends/relatives to STOP encouraging infidelity in your marriage? And see if you're avoiding conflict or being a real friend of others' marriages?

See if turning a blind eye...not being radically honest...not holding yourself to your own code...is why the cycle spins...again and again?

Nothing but a choice, Inf.

As for my break...well...God works through our timing, too...so I'm praying to know if I've been your marriage's stumbling block...enabler...respecting you choose...I cannot make you...

I don't doubt your ability, capability one iota...I know you doubt greatly...and I get that because I have doubted myself, too...still do...hence, I don't believe I can be of help really.

Me standing for your marriage while both its halves look at the other...is spit in the wind...

And it's all I knew to do...here is a marriage...active, real...a covenant...it exists even if you act like it doesn't...still does.

LA

Hi,

Good to hear from you.

I'm not in the same place I was then LA. It's different now. I'm not making crazy excuses for doing stupid things.

I'm trying to save my marriage. I just don't have hope for it happening like I did before.

I have faith in myself to give it a good (last) shot. I have faith in God to give me what I need in life.

I don't have hope for her finding it in herself to save our marriage. I also don't know what plan God has in store for us, but I don't believe that saving our existing marriage right is a part of it. I believe he's listening, and helping us along, but I don't believe that this is something he's going to give us.

I'm trying for all the right reasons. We are getting along ok. She's warming up to the idea of talking to me again. She's even not calling me a jerk atleast once during every conversation. That's not enough though. I spoke to her today, she is filing the paperwork very soon. She's running out of time to do it, and since our legal seperation turned out to be not-so-legal, she can't qualify for financial aide. For school. As it turns out she is enrolling for cullinary arts, and doesn't financially qulify for aide with us being married. So, she's going to divorce me because she wants the aide, and feels that the divorce is what needs to happen anyway. Atleast she said she's not trying to be a jerk about it, though I don't understand how that makes sense? Unless she means "As big a jerk". Not that I'm calling her a jerk. I'm just saying... I might have been understanding about that at one point, but not now after everything.

DD has been going to Banana Splits regularly for some time. Thought you knew? So she has had help there. I try to tip toe about with her, testing the waters to talk about things. She's not ready for that discussion with me though. We'll get there, but we're not anywhere near there yet. All I get right now is crying, slamming doors, shutting herself in rooms, "I hate when you guys argue!" or "Why do you hate me?" and that's it.

I've had the discussions with my family about OW's lately. My Mom said that she had hoped that our marriage would be fixed, but didn't agree with the OM and felt that my OW was fair. She's since agreed to not press the issue. The rest of my family has officially made it known that they don't care for WW, that they have done things to OM behind my back that were wrong without his knowledge, and that if we get back together they will be as civil about it as they will allow themselves to be but they have no hope for us getting back together, and hadn't before and feel that I need to get rid of her because I don't deserve what she's done, don't believe that she's a nice person and feel that I need to get on with my life and find someone that will be good for me. I've let them know where I stand, how I feel and what my wishes are as to how they would handle this. I'm sure they'll consider respecting them, but it won't go far.

I think the problem with you and I had been that I had been relying on you for all of the answers. I think that has gotten alot better, but was a huge problem in the beginning and why I wasn't able to learn enough from this to stop myself from having the second A. I wasn't thinking anything good for myself. I was letting you do it. Then i would take your answers and run with them, and when they didn't produce results immediately, I fell right back into panic, anger and despair and did dumb things again. Only then i was telling myself that I was trying to make it right and it wasn't working, so I lost even more hope... bad way to handle things I know. Then I'd run to everyone else for advice, bad advice usually was all i got, and run with that too. Crazy stuff.

I'm doing alot of thinking for myself these days. Not pushing myself to keep going out of fear anymore. I'm actually rationalizing, making good, solid choices and not doing as much reacting. This past Sunday I managed to talk to her just fine without any issues. Talked to her today without any problems too... and today is particularly cruddy. I'm ok with that though. Life goes on, and I'll get through this.

To summarize: My car needs repairs, I'm having issues with things at work, my WW is going to divorce me so that she can get her life "further on track" and seems to be doing "just fine without me", and... now I found out that it has been court ordered that I carry health insurance on DD, even though a judge recently ruled that it wasn't financially feasible for either of us and that DD would still qualify for Child Health Plus. So, now my check is being drafted for health care against my will, and I also owe my PoE arrears for back coverage for the last month that they are paying for me, and they are drafting my check for that as well. So, unless I can get this reversed even though a judge had already done that BEFORE this order, it will not be financially feasible for me to work here, or anywhere else, making what I am making now, unless I live with my Mother until the end of time, or until I find a much better paying job. That, or atleast until August when I no longer have a car payment (for this particular vehicle) until something else changes. I don't believe that I will find a better paying job. This is the best paying job I've ever had, and is one of the best paying entry level jobs for what I'm skilled at in the area. You can't get much better without having a college education. I'm not ready for getting back to that right now. Hopefully within a year or so I might be, or maybe another opportunity or something will come along or something. We'll see.

I would really like for things to start taking a greater turn for the better. In the meantime, I'm waiting out this storm. This really makes things extremely difficult for me though. I was just getting to a point where I could start saving up some money again. Now, I don't even know how I'm going to pay all of my bills unless my Mom cuts me some slack and tells me I don't have to help with expenses until I can get through this. I'm luck to have family that cares about me, and is willing to help out when I need it. Otherwise I don't know what I'd do.

My goals for right now: to improve myself, to improve my relationship(s) with DD (and WW, until and/or depending on the divorce, and what that relationship will be with her will depend on that also), to weather out all of this craziness in my life, and to spend time doing the things I need to do to accomplish those things, and to do things for myself that I enjoy doing to make up for lost time and just because it'll be nice to take the time to do that.

I'm not counting out the idea that our marriage could still be saved LA. I have faith in there being a possibility under the right circumstances, or by some act of God. I just don't have hope for those circumstances happening, or for God to intervene in that way. I'm doing the best with what I have and what I know how to do, with what God has given me. I've made enough mistakes. I'm trying to fix my marriage now. Once I'm divorced it'll be too late. The best I'll be able to do then is hope that maybe there'll be a chance for us to start over someday...?

I'm not ready for that new thread. I don't know what I want for my marriage except to be better for it. To do that though, I have to understand why I messed up in the first place. Sure, I was afraid or angry or both... but I still don't know why, or what happened or how things effected me to get me to where I got. Alot of my spare time is spent trying to figure all of that out for myself, by myself. Talking to anyone else, including you, gives me new questions, but I need to stop asking so many questions and start looking for answers. I've been doing that alot lately. Making real progress and feeling alot better about myself the further I get with finding those answers. I'm still going to talk to you, and come here like I have been. But I think I need to spend less time looking for everyone to give me the answers, and getting more questions, and just spend some time finding some of my own. I need to find my whole self again. Figure out who I am now without anyone else influencing my life and what I want, and then decide on the best way to go about using all that in a way that'll help me to better live my life. For my sake, and for the sake of the people I love. For the sake of my possible marriage. For God. and for you for helping me all this time.

Sound like a plan to you?

Very few things have been easy for me in life, and seldom does any great length of time go by where I don't find myself in some incredibly difficult situation like this. Whether it was all of the surgeries when I was younger, or getting bullied all the time for 13 school years, or extreme financial difficulties, or relationship issues, or my Mom's 2 divorces, or my alcoholic Dad, or the list goes on. It has repeatedly been something drastic. Every year that I have been alive has presented me with some intense challenge like this. Atleast once, if not several times a year. You'd think I'd be better at this. Instead it got to the point where I just broke down because I couldn't take it anymore. Well... that won't happen again. I've learned what I needed to know to get me through those times. I used to be good at that, but I was missing something... and now I have it.

maybe that was God's plan all along? or maybe he has something else in store for me? Something that I can apply all of this to? I really have seen and experienced alot in my short days, and know alot about the world and how it works. I've been just as lucky as I have been unlucky. Both to some extreme. I'm glad for the time that I have had, and hopefully will continue to have here and try to make the most of it.

I guess I have 2 things to say at this point.

A)It's great to know that I've finally figured my life out.

B)It figures that it didn't happen until after I had already screwed my life all up.


Though, that seems to be how things happen for me, and I can't really say that I'm surprised that it happened this way.

It could always be worse.

Time to get back to work. Thanks again for everything!

Talk to you soon!

:O)

BTW. You help alot. You can't even imagine. If anything, I'm just a pain in the butt. Everyone tells me I make things harder than they need to be... I like to think that that isn't true, that I'm only different. Maybe I do make things harder. I don't see it as a bad thing though. Especially when I'm trying really hard to live full and right, while everyone else is content with just living and doing whatever.

Thanks for having faith in me. I have to say... it's not so much that I don't have faith in myself most of the time. I lose it sometimes... most times I have alot though. It's when I have to also have faith in other people that I lose faith in myself... and not so much in myself, but in the outcome of things. My family, my WW, alot of people I know... they don't get me, and they don't have much in the way of a "working to make the world a better place" attitude. They are all out for #1 primarily, and all telling me all the time howI need to stand up for myself, take control of my life and do something besides what I do. But I'm happy for the most part, and they don't get that because I'm not after the things they are after... or don't treat people like crap intentionally, or am not career minded or money hungry.

I'm not relying on my marriage working, because I have to have faith in my WW seeing it through on her end... and it just about killed her the first time to want to take me back. She rarely makes the "mistake" of trusting anyone twice. I just can't see her doing it, not even for me... for DD... for us. The possiblity is there, but it won't happen. I don't like it, but I'm probably right.

Inf,

About culinary school...did you say, "Hey, that's great! I'll move back in and stop splitting up our money, doubling our bills and halving our assets. I bet we can work out the payments for the school so we can stay married, live honestly, and you won't have to rack up a lot of debt and guilt!"

"Wouldn't your best possible scenario be for you to be in love with the father of your DD, your husband?"

Because you know that can happen. Unless you believe it...know it for real...then why think she can? Why place hope in what others will or won't believe...why not in yourself?

You don't know...you just know her thoughts...will know her actions or not...has remained your duty to your marriage to restate her choices back to her as they really are...to bring reality and know it for yourself.

Your choice to DEPEND on God to be at work...no doubt he is...and to focus on you, what is/was/will be in your control. Building your self-trust, respect and esteem.

"I hear you saying you don't want to be seen as a jerk for ending our marriage so you can get financial aid, is that correct?"

Because you don't know what she means...she could mean she WISHES it could be different...when it isn't...or WISHES she didn't have to make the choice at all...

Don't know. That's hers. "Do you see yourself as a jerk for not recommitting to our marriage and going to culinary school, too?"

Funny thing about clarifying or confirming...I don't do it when I don't WANT clarity or confirmation...sure gets in the way of my easy assumptions and DJs.

Let go the outcome...with your relatives (they don't know their future choices, either), your WW, and friends. Have you actually cut off communication with the two friends seeking to harm your marriage with set-ups? Have you actually changed your own choices?

You look at the outcome to determine your choices...instead of at your code. Now you've stopped doing that...you don't control the outcome...you do CHOOSE your results. Funny thing about outcomes...they keep coming. We arbitrarily set the parameters...where the consequences begin and end...and in my experience, they don't really end. They ripple...so why would we determine the outcome as <blank> when it's not finished yet?

Your results are in answer to "Was I respectful? Honest? Was I present? Was I active or reactive?" That's how you choose your results...and let go the outcome.

Sounds to me like you're saying previously you determined your reactions from your feelings...chose your actions after viewing an outcome (she didn't, so I did)...like living from the tail-end instead of the head of life.

Like taking my opinion and seeing how it played...which absolves you of ownership...an intermediary. Tail-end again.

BTDT. Others feel, so I feel <blank>...and it sounds like this is in your FOO, too...you know where you learned this...and you'll be the one to stop doing it...get to experience life in the forward perspective. Very cool and very difficult...only takes one to make a trend, though, eh?

Is today really cruddy? Or was it the first hour, or third? Why not say, "I'm proud of myself for practicing respect...even when I felt a higher urge to react instead of act." Until you give yourself permission to admire, accept, appreciate yourself when you hold to your code...then you will continue to run after the outcome, won't you?

As for your options for your check getting drafted...or if you move back in with your wife and child...period. Optimal circumstance...married, living together, meeting ENs and no LBing...rebuilding trust and love with each other. You left out that choice.

Best-paying job right now...keep it. Would insuring your family through your job (paying that premium from your paychecks) be more reasonable or more expensive?

Up to you to see you are turning for the better...your life choices remain knew every day...up to you to be clear and straight with yourself about what you're choosing to do and why.

If you went for primary custody awhile back, would WW be garnished for the health insurance? Choices matter...and keep mattering. You said you could not legally move back into your home with WW...and now you say the separation wasn't legal all along? Not what you thought or were told...new information, new choices.

I'm glad you're not counting on the idea that your marriage can be saved...I want you to KNOW you ARE MARRIED...it's a fact...right now. You are the husband and that's your half of the marriage...you're all father of one DD...and you're you. I don't want you looking at the end to justify your choices...I want you looking at your code.

Money from your mother--do you count that as debt? Debt that doesn't show on a credit report? What other options do you have...to live in a shelter, with roommates...can you widen your perspective to consider many, many choices? Moving back to your marital home...even on the premise of renting a room from WW...if she's gonna file for divorce to get financial aid, what really is to stop you from moving home so you can afford Cost Health Plus?

See the parallels in your life?

The only thing we learn from living in frequent drama...is how to live in frequent drama. We don't learn how to live without it...which means, we will often create or sustain it because it is our routine, our habit...

We learn how to stop living in drama at all by choosing not to live in it. We choose a new perspective and perception...and we make different choices. Feels frighteningly unfamiliar...fear leaps up higher...and as we choose differently, anyway, we learn to live without drama.

Doesn't mean living without conflict. Means living where we don't make conflict into drama.

Seems like one of the answers you already found in yourself.

Everything that resonated within you from my opinions...was already in you. You already know...I do understand you listening for the answers within instead of distracting with questions. And you do know all your why's...for all your past choices...saying you don't know doesn't mean you don't...because only you do know. Accepting you know comes first...then the specifics follow.

Glad you're sharing your feeling better about yourself with yourself, btw. Very cool.

And accept you will get through all times...because you will. How you get through and what you take with you will vary.

We live one choice at a time.

LA

P.S. to your post while I was posting thingie...how comfortable are you viewing yourself as very much the same as others? Others may see you as making your life harder...you can choose to see if you're making your choices more difficult (narrowing them) or not. I have known more people who make their choices more difficult than not. Does that mean your friends are in the minority? Does it matter?

No one is just content with living and whatever...each person has their own way, own journey...not yours to compare to or choose from...yours is yours. Accepting reality when that's a foreign language to you is difficult...remains necessary. Accepting your limits and experiencing freedom because you do accept them is hard, too. Do it anyway. Just you, with you...living full and right isn't difficult when you have practiced it into a habit.

High awareness isn't difficult once you're used to it, also...then again, I think you can see where it will become difficult, easier, automatic, and then difficult again...by its very nature.

I find when I lose faith in myself, it's a signal I've lost focus on myself.

When I find my focus...it's on my DH, an outcome, or something equally out of my control. I lose focus when I stop choosing my results too.

I don't focus on staying centered...I pull my focus back and re-center. There's a big difference.

Some people work really hard at not adding to the crap as their way of "working for a better world"...some work hard on themselves...and that changes the world...judging others is another way we judge ourselves...what their intent in, their stuff...an act of disrespect we do in our heads...instead of seeing their actions (which can be different...like those who rave about paying taxes...and then pay them)...to listen and know, not to judge...does wonders for you inside, so you can hear your answers clearly.

It's okay to not know the whys of people...focus on their actions, their choices...hand back their stuff as their stuff...connect without judgment...and you'll do so with yourself, as well.

Leaves off a lot of energy and time in measuring your progress, your hope, your love, your dedication...and you get to stand in I am committed and not ask how much.

Did I share with you my life-long quest to be right? Didn't know it was the god I served, my highest priority...hid it from myself...and now I see where my very deep urge is really for rightness...not to be right. To be in balance in myself, to live from it, acting from my code...choosing to act from love, not fear. Rightness is different than being right.

It's real.

Your family may not get you...they love you, anyway. Dwell on that...because they do. You may not have gotten you...so others could not, either. Flip stuff over...make sure you are doing it for you and others...be your own guide...not your own critic...be your own cheerleader, bring yourself reality...and you'll find others really do get you...at least, the parts most like themselves...how we all connect together, Inf.

You may not treat people like crap intentionally...you know you have treated people like crap.

The difference between a DJ and reality.

You already are in control of your choices, which determines your life experience (not your life).

Your WW has not filed divorce to date...this minute...and you've thought at any moment she would, all along. You lived that drama over and over again...and are no better prepared, are you? What's your payoff? Find it, Inf...because there is one in you to NOT live in reality...to not break it down...choice by choice...and see it for what it is.

You are married.

You are half your marriage.

You have amends for past choices to make...how's your self-forgiveness coming?

Gotta make this real quick...

I didn't think to say... "Hey, instead of divorce, then this...". and what I did think to say I kept to myself because she said that she "wasn't in the mood to listen to whining". and having a lengthy discussion about it at work isn't feasible. I'm not good at coming with solid replies, and if I do she counters and I eventually run out of gas. I'm just not good at doing that sort of thing, and I hate it because it doesn't help my cause. I have to have time to think about these things, and by the time I've said something a new issue has popped up that I've got no defense for. I don't know. It's gotten worse since all of this started too. Sometimes I just stand there drawing blanks because I don't what to say at all. I hate this. It's no wonder my marriage is failing. I suck at this stuff. I'm never where I need to be when I need to be. It always happens too little too late with me. Especially now. I have to keep trying, but I feel like I'm spinning my wheels and have been uber frustrated lately. I'm just under alot of pressure and failing. Ohhhh... I wish I could scream.

Oh well.

Sometimes I think to myself... if I'm not going to do this 100%, why do it at all? I hate that I've been wishy washy, but I don't have the time, resources or know how to do all of this stuff. Some of the things I've done she hated and started telling me I'd changed and she didn't like me for it too. So I do it, but don't talk to her about it... and I'm just thinking that it's too late to save my marriage so why hurry to do any of this. I'll go at my own pace and that'll be that. I don't know.

I'm really angry today... or right now atleast. I hate that I screwed up, I hate that I can't prove myself to her, or show her that all of this is worth it, and I hate that she can just throw it all away and probably will. But whatever. Like hating anything does me any good. So I'm just going to keep trying my best. Which apparently won't be enough but I'll do it anyway. It's well worth it... to an extent I can't put into words worth it.

I know my family cares. That's why they do the things they do... they just do backwards things.

I stopped talking to my best friend and my family about my relationship, yes. Other things no. But that I firmly made them aware that I'll have no more discussions with them because it is not beneficial at this time for me to do so.

An aside. I would love to have faith in my WW. As a person though, she's always been extremely untrusting and doesn't grasp the full concept of what it means to be a good, giving, respectful person. Even at her peak, when our marriage was at it's best... she was still not what most would condider to be a "likeable person". I've seen her do cruel things to friends, family, myself... because she didn't trust us. It's gotten alot better, but I can full on see her divorcing me to give her a short term solution to a long term problem... and she is always prepared to live with the consequences... because honestly... very few people are willing to defy her, or just give up on trying to reason with her and forsake her. They push, and she shoves. They try to fix a situation, and it only happens on her terms or not at all. If it wasn't for all of the great things about her, I'd be much more afraid of her like alot of other people. I actually kind of was until we became really good friends. This hasn't been easy for me. Living in fear of her when we first started living together is probably alot of what got me where I am now... I started to not be able to let things go after that. Because I was afraid and angry alot. Because she took alot of it out on me. I love her, but during times like now I'm sometimes too afraid to just be me around her. I try really hard though.

I'm actually starting to be more mentally prepared for this. She throws the word divorce in my face, and I just shrug it off... I figure that it's a choice she's making and I can ask her not to make it, but it is her choice and I have to accept that.

I'm angry, hurt, scared... don't like it it... but I'm not being irrational about it. My feelings seem to be under control, and I'm not taking them out on her. I'm analyzing how I feel, and why... and then trying to take mental notes. I don't know. I'm terrible at all of this. I'm usually a simple person, with simple wants likes and needs... but once other people get involved, on any complicted level like this and I mess it all up because I'm always on a different page than they are... which is why I've never been one for taking advice, and do my own thing. and everyone gets frustrated with me for it, but it always works out.

Now, I've taken people's advice for two years and look at me. and my life. both are a 12 car pile up on the highway of life.

No offense to you. I've forgiven myself for all of this, but it doesn't make handling the situation any easier.

I'm anxious to fix my marriage today and it shows.

Would love to grab her by the shouilders, shake her and say "What is the problem?!!!! Why can't you do this?!?!?! you've known me for 10 years and know this can be fixed?!?!?!" but then I realize that the problem is she doesn't want to fix it. Trust > Love. and just because I know I can be trusted, and know that I learn from my mistakes doesn't mean she has to believe it... for any reason I may give her. and I just want to flop down on my butt and cry. because it's up to her... and she'll probably make the wrong choice. and in the end she'll make it work for her and everyone else will just have to live with it.

I don't know. I'm not divorced yet... but just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't either. Odds do exist, and right now mine suck.

I'm trying though, and for the right reasons and that's what matters.

I wish I had more time to post today, this might not have been so full of garbage. then again I don't know. Seems my posts are always about unloading so that I have time for the good stuff in the here and now.

gotta go. thanks

later. :O)

Inf,

"Sometimes I just stand there drawing blanks because I don't what to say at all. I hate this. It's no wonder my marriage is failing."

Give yourself permission to state and COMMIT to yourself to state...even, "I'm standing here drawing blanks. I hate drawing blanks. I feel despair, fear and anxiety right now."

Know where I got the despair? From the last sentence...it's not an ownership statement...it's a despair statement...you choosing your results...negatively...kicking your own tushie. As if you can blame it on your blanks.

Permission to say, "I don't understand what you just said. I want to rephrase what I heard. I'm suddenly tense and drawing a blank. Would you please repeat?"

You bring yourself reality through clarity...which is how you bring clear reality with you...like Pigpen...only cleaner looking.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You can say you don't understand...want to respond...will respond by email in two hours...one day...by 5pm...when you give yourself a time, a deadline, you commit...it's an act of commitment. Doesn't stop her from zinging, DJs or ignoring...doesn't control her or the conversation...it's for you, about you...and changing your reactivity from paralysis to saying your stuff...simply, right now...not looking at the possible response.

Not trying...doing/saying/being. Breathe more...

You don't suck at anything...you get sucked into your own fear...like the 180 from reacting in anger to the opposite...part of the process, IME...another step forward.

I think it was Nia17 who said "DO IT AFRAID"...on another thread yesterday.

Stop choosing the perspective of pressure...choose right now, this moment...each is but a moment...of being. That's it. When you get true in yourself...find your center and know you love and are loved...then there is no pressure. You already are.

You haven't been working on your own amends...to yourself, your marriage...so no redemption...can build like pressure...from the inside. Not under it...within it. Understandably angry...trace it to the primary emotion...and the belief behind it.

Flip it over...can you prove yourself to you? Do you like your own changes? Did you abandon yourself and betray yourself, too?

Do you have faith in yourself? Do you trust yourself? Are you trustworthy? Is your WW your equal? Equally capable, able...makes choices...nothing intrinsically wrong with her...then ask yourself, is there intrinsically wrong in you?

You said you were looking for your answers...focus inwardly...on your permissions, your commitment...find out what that belief is behind your fear/pain...adjust yourself...not perfect...

When I write, "Did you say..." I'm offering tools, external permissions...not judging...there's no "should" or "shouldn't" in there...if you're hearing it, feeling like you're failing my test...choose a different perception...I don't do "shoulds"...there is do or not do, Yodameister. You know this.

Reactivity is like a drug...grab that yarn to trace it to permissions that if you fear this much, then...If/Then statements within us...what you're allowed and not allowed to do when...

We all have this...you are not unique in the processes...you are unique in self. You can fall in love with God's design...love it (not just like it)...your choice. You're that powerful.

Natural for your fear to rise when others get involved...because others come between you and yourself...for better and for worse...alternately I've found they can be our way through to ourselves and obstructions/distractions from us, as well. Not bad/not good...just is.

Step back a bit...do you fear people who justify their cruelty? Look at the justification, not the cruelty. Good to know what we do to others, we do to ourselves. Know she does it. Period. Not how, when, why...that she does. Then look at your own cruelty, levels of justification...see clearly inside yourself more of your self. When you get to yours, hers won't bother you. For you will then have control over yours...and be able to enforce that boundary within yourself.

Fear drops. When it does, the anger does, too...the paralysis will yield to respectful response...staying honest with yourself in your discourse...that's recentering.

Your 12-car pileup wasn't from taking others' advice...it was from betraying your own goals...from those high-level permissions...if you hurt THIS much then...you can slam your wife when she wants to reconcile...you can have an affair on your marriage because (insert justification)...and you will see what you fear most in your WW is within you...what you chose when...and you cannot undo...and she cannot undo...

and you both can change.

Only you control yours...

I don't believe you have forgiven yourself for what you have not done amends to yourself for...

I just don't.

You may have excused your choices...rationalized...reasoned...justified...redemption is action...and when we do amends to ourselves...it takes time, it's a process...and full forgiveness can come as a surprise.

Seems to me you want to grab yourself by the shoulders, shake yourself hard and get the answer to "What is the problem??? You've known me for 27 years and you know this can be fixed!!!" I hear..."Why don't you believe in me...believe like I do...see as I do..." because SHE doesn't...and you do. You want her to desperately believe in you...so you can believe in yourself...redemption through her choices, her actions, maybe? Leaves out your half...to believe in, stay true to and live from your own choices, actions...

You don't know what she doesn't want and wants to do...you are not confirming or clarifying her thoughts right now...her beliefs as hers...separate from yours...right now. You aren't stating yours...that you're standing for your marriage, your choice to love her and work hard on having an intact family. You're peeking at the outcome...your focus is over there...away from you...out of your control and beyond your limits and power.

Not reality.

You go into the future and you react to it...some of the fear, anger and pain is coming from what hasn't arrived yet...and MAY NOT. You don't know. Sure screws up you being present, right now, doesn't it?

Odds are comparisons...are they real? What's more real...I don't know tomorrow...the day before she asked to reconcile...you had no idea...what were those odds, I wonder...and you were unprepared...reactive...are you trying to prepare yourself? What if you focused on preparing yourself for every single day of the rest of your life? How to be present...know reality from fantasy...perceive and act from respect, honesty, openness...?

Do you like hurting yourself? Permission to call your post garbage...is imprecise...and yes, you were in a rush...I say it's a lie...you may have meant...not how you wanted to be seen...not what you intended...would you say not really true? First step on the road to redemption is to know how your own choice to self-deceive (justifications included) led to cruel choices and actions. Only you can remove the tiniest ways you self-deceive...I'm still working on mine...with your help.

I think it goes to permission to state your truth right now...as you were posting..."I fear this is all garbage. I fear self-deception." Not you writing/doing it wrong...you going deeper for those answers you have caught the scent of inside yourself.

Just my opinion.

Only you can know. Choose to know. It's a choice.

LA

Maybe I just don't know how I feel, think, do, believe. Any of that. Maybe I just can't figure myself out. Can't see what I'm really doing right and wrong left and right up and down and sideways and it's all gotten to be some big jumble. Sitting here. Posting. Trying to figure myself out, change myself, learn how to be. It's never been me. I don't do this sort of thing. I'm not good at this sort of thing. I'm having a hard time processing all of this information, and an even harder time applying it. I usually am just relaxed. I just am. I get along with everyone, they get along with me, and if they don't I let it go.

but now I'm like the guy in the movies... that goes to the shrink for thirty years, and the shrink keeps telling him the same thing for thirty years, only taking a different approach each time. and it never works. I just keep coming back and saying I get it at the end of the session, like it's some great revelation each day, and then I'm back again tomorrow with the same problem for different reasons.
Then one day something changes and he's totally fine because this one event freed him from this horrible cycle.


I used to be fine. I used to be the guy I want to be again.

I think you're right. Maybe I haven't forgiven myself. I think I just haven't found a way to do that yet, and I'm not sure why other than to say I need some sort of closure out of all of this. Whether my marriage is fixed, or she divorces me, or I become this great guy that doesn't take his crap out on his wife... I haven't found a way to stop fretting over this. It's because I'm still concerned about the marriage. I'm concerned about me, but I can still see me and the impact the things I've done have had on my marriage and the lives of the two people I love the most and I want to be able to sit and say... " I did what I did, she made her choice and here are the results." It's what I did that is the problem. and I did it twice. and I still have an opportunity to fix it. and I can't get what I'm doing here right. Forgiving myself would be so much easier if I could just see some concrete results come from SOMETHING!!! Instead of sitting here feeling like I'm failing at everything and that years of my life have already passed me by and I'm still stuck in this Heck.

Really. I just don't feel like I'm getting much of anywhere. There's turmoil in every aspect of my life right now and I just want some blinkin' stinkin' results. I know I'm having trouble with all of this and I know it's because I don't have the time or money or whatever to devote to reaching this personality pinnacle that I used to have as fast as I want it. I've got her calling me a jerk one minute, then being nice but saying she's divorcing me the next, I've got no money, problems at work, my kid only on weekends, my car needs work, I've got even less money, I live with my Mom and can only stand so much of that, I don't have much time or the means to do much of anything I enjoy, I have no real friends, and the one I do have is giving me cruddy advice on my marriage...

Seems maybe my real problem is that I hate the way my life is going right now, and can't forgive myself until it gets back on track and I see some actual, quality results from all of this work I'm doing.

I guess I'm not adapting too well.

Well, there's a revelation for you. Wow. *phew*

It's good that I found that. Now I have to figure out what to do with it. I guess it'll take time, and that's probably all there is to it.

I feel a little better now.

Thanks for listening.

See sometimes I do alright with this, and other times I don't. It's those times that I'm having difficulties with something that I'm beating myself up.

I have to say that this, as in all of this has been getting easier for me lately. Maybe I'm still shook up over the divorce. I'm not sure.

Getting this out seems to have helped though. maybe I'm cranky too.

I've been up since 2am.

Becuase I got up in the middle of the night and wrote her a 20 page letter until 6am, owning my stuff (my A's and DJ's), stating my goals, for myself for our marriage, and asking her to consider not filing for a divorce and to remove OM from hers and DD lives so that there is room for me to step back in with time.

How's that for awesome. Heh. >:OD

BtW... I'm 29, not 27. Just sayin'. ;OD

and no, I don't like hurting myself... I'm not sure I really believe that stuff about my posts being garbage. I guess I was blowing off steam. I probably should find a more constructive way to that.

I'll tell you, and I probably don't need to. This has not been an easy 2-3 years. I have a hard time realting to the fact that it's even been that long.

Inf,

Do you have the belief that once you "get it" you'll always have it? That once the event/incident/ephiphany takes place...it's smooth sailing?

In my experience...there is no such thing. We get it, lose it, get it back...lose it again...seems like we do...because one whole ephiphany is only a part...feels huge...like the whole meaning of life (as if there is just one)...it's not.

A process...not perfection. Adjusting our hidden expectations, one by one (and we have hundreds)...

Think of space...you're out there on your astronautic walk...and your tether breaks...all you have is your suit and a tool box you're holding. You're 300 feet from the capsule (gosh, I'm old)...how do you get back to safety?

Do you take that toolbox and shove it away from you...hoping hard enough, that one push, at just the right trajectory, will have you rushing in one fell swoop? An all or nothing shot at safety and life or smashing into the ship...or missing it by an inch which might as well be a mile as far as you ever getting back there is concerned?

Or do you open the toolbox, position yourself the best you can and throw one tool away from you and see how far you get, so you can alter your direction to your goal...tiny momentums with best effort and knowledge right then, one instrument at a time?

You may feel stuck in place...not making progress...no visible results to assuage your fear, lessen your panick...and you choose to act slowly, with care and respect for where you are right now...and know that any one action will not save or annihilate you...incremental understanding, faith and awareness.

Can't do it with that hidden expectation kicking in your reactivity, reacting to the urge to JUST GET THERE ALREADY so that everything will be fine...for in truth, we get back to the ship...and the next day, there's a malfunction...we're inside...we aren't safe. Something new, unexpected, different around us...only we remain who we are, same control, power and limits...as we always had and will have.

We can be our own constants...slowly and surely...takes a long, long time for the pendulum (with the help of gravity), to narrow it's arc, again and again, until it arrives at the middle...and in fact, arrives sooner at the middle than we can see...even when it continues it's path in tinier, fractions less height of each arch...

Are you gonna spend all your time measuring the change, gauging where you are, to what increment...or accept there's change...and change is the constant?

You are your own revelation...revealing to yourself...that's how I see my life experience...had to stop looking at myself from the outside in...or only inside out...not one or the other...parts of both, moderated...and to stop checking mostly...and focus on being...

You got there in your post...you've gotten there again and again...and I see that 20-page letter not to WW...to YOU...your answers...a written amends...bet it has promises you've made to yourself in there...your whole code is in there...bits and pieces...

A testament of love...for yourself, your life.

You know that's awesome...ponder your testament awhile...take time, sleep, and choose a new belief...you're doing and not doing...differently.

You are more loved than you know...at all times...I promise. You effect and are affected...

And you're now 29? LOL...you're still 27 for the last two years to me...two or three years isn't even a stint in the military...and a fraction of your whole entire life...when you choose that perspective...and 912 days when you live it one day at a time...if you choose that perspective...

Somewhere in the middle is a healthy, reasonable and real perspective...I trust you'll find it...just as you will draw a tighter line around your honesty boundary, if you so choose, so you don't lie to yourself, misrepresent...to cause pain to yourself...or draw a line tighter around how much pain you allow yourself to cause to you...not all or nothing...

You know you encounter emotional upset and reactivity when you beat yourself up...makes you more vulnerable to poor choices and decisions...go more into the future or the past...lessens your awareness and ability to stay present.

Have you thought of treating yourself as you do DD? Would you beat her up for her choices? Call her stuff garbage? What if you didn't allow you to do that to yourself? What if you dedicated yourself to listening carefully to your thoughts, your editorial voice (judge) in your head...and pictured that voice speaking to DD? Would that change what you permit inside yourself?

Not because you're laid back, easy going...because you stand for honesty (and garbage isn't honest) in you and to others...just the Inf Law 1...And when you don't obey that law, you own and amend to yourself or to others...incrementally, one tool at a time...

And when you do hold to your law, you know it, notice it, admire and appreciate yourself for it.

One day at a time.

You know all of this...you have had days of this within the 912...not all horrific, bad, wrong, perfect, right or great...moments of each, probably within each day...and you're having those today, too...because you're alive and human.

Wanna spot your judgments per day? Per post? For me, they were like breathing...only I made several more judgments than breaths. Each judgment (worse time of my life/best time...bravest moment/most cowardly) was my self-deception that if I labeled it, I learned from...it took my experience and put into words in my head, which then I spoke, acted from the resulting judgment...and my life was made up of evidence...proof of life experience.

Often times, it still is...because judgment thought it was my protector, my knower, my reality...to get to the perfect fix...smooth sailing forever.

Not real. Feels very real...very firm...evidence instead of awareness...I can experience them as the same. Our brains cannot tell reality from fantasy.

Amazing...fascinating...intriguing. Just like you. Just like me. God's design of us...for us...about us...from love.

Not easy or hard...not awful or perfect...anger can feel awful...doesn't make it so...joy can feel like perfect...doesn't make it so...might feel easy to love and hard to let go...doesn't make it so...just our experience...right now, moment by moment...very much determined by our choice of beliefs, thoughts, perceptions and perspective...

When you feel reactive...check to see what perspective you're choosing at the moment...find the tendrils of your lies to self...old beliefs, long worn out...often hidden from us...which is why I check my assumptions first...

spot the judgment.

Spot myself...not for perfection...for reality.

You know you do the hard work...you have the passion...you make your choices...you got the tools...using them is what builds the skills...skill of using them...changes your life experience...the way you experience life...and yourself.

Doesn't really change you, does it? Just your choices.

When I feel cranky, it's my wishful childlike self in the momentary lead...picking my perspective and perception...like lack of sleep does...not a dull mind...a more wishful one...'cuz I'm wishing I'd gotten more sleep.

LOL

Honor to read you, Inf. And I don't do garbage, 'k?

LA

I don't think that if I "get it" that it's just going to stay with me. No, I think my major concern is not so much that I'm not getting it... or that I'll lose it. It's that I'm having an extremely difficult time making it work, applying it, and even remembering it. All of my junk is getting in the way. I guess I should say to clarify... getting it, losing it... meh. Using it. There's my problem.

I feel? like there is something more I could be saying or doing... to make the situation better... that would maybe convince her that our marriage is worth saving? I feel like I'm just resting on my laurels and letting this happen. 20 mintues a week is not nearly enough time to make this happen IMO. Especially with as severe as the situation has gotten. and it kills me because she is the only person I've ever really DJ'D to this extent when I knew that what I was doing was wrong. I don't know. Messing up this bad is knew to me. Didn't know I was capable of creating a situation this awful.

Just saying.

FYI... I'll be 30 in July (ugghh) so your perspective of me having been 27 all this time will be even more skewed. Heh.

Oh, and I don't know that I'd ever go into space. Heh. Heh.
You may have been better off using an oceanic, snorkeling reference in which I'm getting pulled out by the tide, or hunted by a shark or something... I'm just teasing. ;OD

The visible results I'm worried about are the ones where I'm visibly not using this stuff. Like when I'm standing there looking for the right thing to say, and just say nothing. I'd like to be the guy she fell in love with, and more importantly the guy that actually felt confident in, and proud of who he was. Not the abusive, whiney, jerk I've turned into.

I'm going to have to read that letter... now I'm finding myself questioning whether or not it's full of my junk too.

I don't know. Seems easier with DD and I. Don't believe she could ever disown me. She can't cheat on me, divorce me. I'll always be her Dad. So it seems easier to not beat myself up if something happens between us. There's a bond there between us. I question these days what sort of relationship WW felt she had with me? Doesn't seem that strong at the moment? I feel like I have two choices. Forsaking her for having the audacity to give up on our life together and not having faith and trusting in me to make it right and for the OM of 2+ years when she knew how I was taking it, or beating myself up for making the mistakes that got us here. Kicking myself in the pants seems more sensible. ? Especially when I started all of this doing the same things. It bothers me. I always am able to stop when things get bad, take alook at what I'm doing and try to make it right... and with her... I don't know what drives her to just keep going. or aybe I do know but can't relate to that capacity? I don't know. (added this while I was rereading and editing... I've gotta leave this alone... the more I post today, the more I'm posting stuff like this. My gears are turning, in a counter-clockwise direction.)

Not that either of those is good mind you. But in those moments where I'm tearing myself down the middle... that's the road I try to end up going down as of late.

Loved more than I know? By whom is the question I present to you. By DD. No ? there. Family? No doubt in my mind that they do. WW. Maybe... but not as much as I'd like, or as I would have for her I'm wondering? I know that's not the best thing to be saying... I don't know how she feels. This divorce just rubs me the wrong way. I can 99% guarantee you I wouldn't have ever done it. The only time I've ever had doubts about that was after I had my episode and started making all kinds of mistakes... but in the end I know I couldn't have done it. I've always come back to where I am now because I believe that anything can be fixed with the right choices, I love her and I made a promise and even if I was dumb enough to have made this mess, I'm smart enough to know I need to try to make it right... problem is I don't think she has that belief. She used to say "Love will get us through." But I think she meant to say "Love will get us through, until you screw up too much.". That was wrong of me to say. I'm wishing she'd stuck to her guns on that one... though... I don't know for certain that she won't. My instincts tell me I'm right though, and that I'll be single again before the year is out. We'll see. I'm thinking too much. Letting myself get carried away. I'll stop now.

I listen to myself sometimes, and if I wasn't the one saying these things I couldn't believe that it was. Frustrating. I'm glad I'm someone that can learn from my mistakes. I'll never get myself into this situation again.

Some of this post isn't exactly fluid. I went back and added things that may not mesh with sentences after.

See. I am having a hard time with this. My ideas start off ok to good, but then the more I write the more I think and the more junk comes out.

... and another good example. I say posts are garbage. But I know that they are a step to getting somewhere. So why am I sitting here, spilling junk, saying my posts are junk? because it "feels" right and is easy to justify saying that at the time. I'm in the right of frame of mind for that to happen at the time and it does. and I don't even know that I'm doing something backwards when I'm doing it. I have to have it pointed out to me, or read it later to know.

So, am I going to go the rest of my life... taking back everything I say, apologizing after every sentence and having to correct myself? Seems like a crappy way to live. So how do I stop? I need something new here maybe. 2 years of the same stuff is working some, but obv. not enough? I need a new approach. or something.

I'll tell you what I need. I need to get this @*$&%^#* marriage out of my head. I've been stuck on this relationship for 2 years. It's like an addiction, or an obsession. It may even very well be one at this point. I wouldn't know. Maybe it's become a compulsive disorder? I don't buy into any of that, but it seems to be a pretty serious to severe issue that I'm having here.

Got me.

I'll keep plugging away in the meantime. Till something gives and I find a way to let go.

Do you think I try too hard? think too much? Maybe I'm making this harder than it needs to be. Maybe there's some truth to what I'm told. I know that letting go in retrospect feels easy. Saying "Oh, well looking back on things I can't beleive I just didn't cool my jets at THAT point in time because it was obv. that I should have." But it wasn't obv at the time, and now I find myself saying "Oh, well it was obv then, but things have gotten much worse so now is not the time to lay off... I need to worry more now than ever." but that's what I've been saying right along and is why I haven't just let things work themselves out. Doesn't make sense, does it? No, it doesn't. Thinking like that, there will never be a good time. So, lately I've been letting things go. Which is why she and I are getting along alot better then we were during the holidays. I slipped a bit at Thanksgiving, but have been gradually been getting better again. Major improvemtns have been made over the last several weeks or prior to thatish. I'm proud of myself for that.

I wonder when I'll be able to let all this go? I keep thinking about exactly when that will be. What event might trigger it? I can think fo two that could be very key. Reunion or divorce. They seem to stick out. "I'll have nothing to lose then". Though, it would be nice to get my crap together to a respectable level before that... I need to stop looking at this as a means to an end and relax. Been better, but then I have day like today... or posts like today because my posts aren't reflective of my days. Does tht make sense?

Anyway. Gotta go. I'll check in later.

:OD

"even if I was dumb enough to have made this mess, I'm smart enough to know I need to try to make it right"

like there... I wasn't even really thinking I was dumb or smart. It was more for emphasis. It should have read...

"even if I made this mess, I always get around to knowing I need to try to make it right"

I'll try to be more careful about that.

Using it. Got it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You BELIEVE there is something more you could be doing or saying to effect a different outcome. You sound like you desire a way to be powerful enough to convince another person...to change their mind...as if you can do either. That's what I heard. Ponder that for a moment...an automatic belief from long ago hidden in there...

Seems like hidden beliefs are "your stuff" that gets in the way.

I replaced "feel?" with "believe" because that really helped me to clarify my stuff. I was experiencing irritation, agitation, frustration from the same belief...doing is good, not doing is lazy. I confused (and so many people do) the belief with the sensation which follows the belief. By minding my "I" statements, I caught onto how to trace...which is an act of ownership. Sure settled down my irritation, frustration and self-deception, too.

When you ache to have that control, which is ultimately, to control what only another does or doesn't...then look to your ache first. Part of fantasy. That's how you find your hidden beliefs ("if I say the right words, at the right time, you'll change your mind" or "if I do just the right thing, in the right way, you'll feel differently.")

Not wrong or unusual, even...our parents teach us that they FEEL because we said the wrong thing at the wrong time or in the wrong way...we are taught we have that control. Natural we'd have that belief deeply hidden us and flip it over so that WE seem that powerful in our adult experience.

Not real though. I know you know it...hoping you'll grab this and stop suspecting yourself...begin inspecting...for those hidden beliefs.

Sure kills a whole lotta of loops, cycles, patterns..crazy making in your life when you stop and do this.

That's really using it.

Would you consider you want to control very badly because you see where you messed up badly? Maybe there are equal parts? As you dun yourself for how badly you have messed up, so does your urge to fix/smooth/control the outcome equally grow. You're doing it to yourself, btw.

You're feeding your experience by "reacting" to your urges...even on the inside...more you bash, more you're out of control...because desiring control where we KNOW we don't have it IS crazy making.

A cycle. To break. Remove one part...just one tiny part...and you break the whole loop.

20 minutes of presence, you're saying, is all you have to Plan A your WW? Is that really true? How are you present in others' lives? In your own?

Through voice, gifts, sharing...voice includes verbal, written...and to me, gifts. Notification of your feelings, where your thoughts are, what you wish for...

You know all this...you're unwilling, I think, without knowing the outcome...weighing the worth?

Comes from hearing externally, "Don't waste your time"..."Don't throw good money after bad rubbish"...other equivalent phrases.

Can you really waste time at all? Is there any real loss in life when you know you're choosing your actions and letting go the outcome?

Can waste time enforcing your boundaries, acting from love, being?

Since you choose your results (all humans do)...then only YOU would be able to say what was a waste and what wasn't...outcome remains what it is or isn't...

Take your urges (like feeling too limited/weakened by 20 minutes a week) and examine them...trace them to your beliefs...to what you've limited YOURSELF...use the very words you wrote to lead you to your answers...your truth.

Do you depend on not messing up to be loved, btw?

Seems you want me to know that this was knew...these last three years were out of character for you...your messing up this badly, this terribly...as if that changes how I view you, what you've done...who you are.

Are you hoping I won't be viewing you so badly, so terribly?

I laughed at you wanting a different analogy...and yes, I did think the shark biting your leg was more satisfying to me because you didn't want what I brought, in the way I brought it, when I brought it. LOL. CHOMP!

Your humor communicates your truth (under layers) really well. I'm spacey. It's MY analogy. Spoke to ME. Doesn't have to speak to you...and yes, I'm crushed you didn't like it, that it didn't wow you and fix everything in your life upon reading it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are the guy she fell in love with...you are her husband...and you haven't been perfect, spoken perfectly...right stuff/right way/right time throughout your marriage.

You've failed, railed, withdrew, bashed back and loved hard. Different ways and times...you're you. Knowing why you did what you did...do what you do now...and give yourself permission to practice (use) your stuff...so it's ready when you want to use it (in conflict)...up to you.

A choice. Not a talent.

Under about four layers have to crossed off your possibilities list things like, "Well, that didn't get her to smile and hug me, so I won't do that again"? Can you go back and look at what you crossed off and ask yourself...did I smile and hug myself inside when I did that? Did that thrill me, meet my code?

Letting go our death-clutch on outcomes/responses is difficult. I've been throwing various ways to do it all this time...beginning with the first step, choosing the belief that humans cannot control outcomes first.

Catch yourself red-handed...when I said about presence through voice, did you hear a really fast "No, that doesn't work" response in your thoughts? Ask yourself, what does "doesn't" or "didn't" work really mean?

"No, she hates that."

"No, when I did that before, boy, was I sorry!"

"No, that makes her think <blank>"

Listen to your own thoughts as words on a page...catch yourself in fantasy statements...which "feel" real because the hidden belief...you control others/outcomes/your life...remains.

Throwing up more ways on ya. Not gonna stop.

ROFL

Well, maybe.

I'm off to lunch...will return to your post with food in gut...

LA

That post was a train wreck. but that's ok. there's always next time.

You weren't really offended because I wasn't keen on your analogy were you? I mean, it was a great anology. I'm just not into space... unless it's those cool art museum portraits of galaxies, gas clouds and the likes. or Star Wars.

I wish I had time to reply to your post, but I don't. Either this weekend or Monday.

later!

:OD

"Full of my junk, too"

Is "stuff" negative or positive for you? Neutral? You sound like you're committing to acting with care with your words to yourself...to hold yourself to your code of honesty. Neutral is where ya wanna be at. Just as in your second post, you rephrased without the charged words.

Adjectives are. Judgments are. I promise you in my own writing, I know this about myself as well. I use them when I'm lying to myself...thinking I'm conveying my thoughts...when I'm really wanting to communicate what I feel. Different stuff. Still my stuff. Shortcut for me.

Peeling back the onion of self-deception is tricky, by its very nature. We're the inmate in charge of our own asylum, aren't we?

Maybe your letter has a lot of your old junk in it...and a bit of your new...and a lot of honesty and a lot of lies, too. Worth re-reading...to know where you are right now, what you think, dream, yearn for and fear...and love.

Worth several reads over the next few months, even, I think.

Bet you will see the man she fell in love with...and I pray...you'll see the man you love and admire, too. Not because he earned any great reward...or didn't prior to this do any great harm. I'm sure he did both...and most, inbetween...remains true, he was beloved and admired, all along...for who he was...

Because you are. Fall in love with yourself...by getting to know yourself...your hidden thoughts, beliefs and perceptions.

Poof...now I see you as 30...and balding, even. How 'bout that? I can change.

:P

Your DD CAN disown you...not that she will. She will make choices...to distance from you and to draw closer to you, kind of like getting it and losing it and getting it again. You're right...you remain her Dad. Just like you ARE WW's husband.

Up to you to remember it even when DD or WW or others choose to not believe it.

It is different with our children...they are literally a part of us...our partners are not...we didn't have a hand in their birth, their DNA, their creation or the timing of it...

I like how you see your DD as a separate being from yourself...and trust your relationship without taking it for granted.

You can perceive DD as divorcing and even cheating on you...say calling another man "Dad"...and not you...or you, too.

Your choice how to perceive, what to believe and where to stand...so that you can have a respectful, loving and understanding relationship...where you can't change her choices...only mind yours.

Two choices...forsaking WW or beating yourself up? Seems like you do both and then stop doing both, alternately.

What if you went to Plan B, btw? Where for two weeks you do a Plan A push...give a lot of presence for two weeks...then hand her a Plan B letter...and go utterly dark...so that you no longer meet the ENs you've been meeting for the last three years...and OM must meet all of them.

What do you think?

Get an intermediary, figure out the steps back and go dark.

Stick to darkness. Maybe then you'll see her cake-eating...your cake-eating (earlier this year), and reality better...maybe there will be more answers in it for you, quiet, in the dark.

So you won't see your real W as a cardboard cut-out...which is easy to do when she is the WW most of the time. Get to know that difference, like Orchid advises...because when your REAL W came out last year...you slammed, punished and walked away from her...and got your WW right back by going wayward yourself.

DD, W, family, others...can cheat on you...and you can love them anyway. Not to enable or be noble...because you choose to...to live a forgiving, understanding life with healthy boundaries enforced in healthy ways...

How are you greatly loved? In the same way. Think for a moment of your FOO...your family of origin...and those friends who are not friends of your marriage...just as these folks have let you down, disappointed, hurt and made you afraid...so have you them...and they love you, anyway.

There are strangers walking around in this word how heard one sentence you said ten years ago in passing...hearing it again and again...and you have no idea.

There's a woman, I'm sure, who has mentioned off and on for 15 years the story of her encounter with you, a single act of kindness, and her friends remember because she repeats it, as if it just happened yesterday...

You have no concept of how you've rippled in this world in the last 29 years--THERE'S NO PROOF for you to see...requires faith and belief...and experiencing within yourself how many pieces of others reside in YOUR head, your heart...how many stories contain strangers...who uttered a single phrase which replays in your own head...and a sweet story you repeat more than you realize...

God didn't make no junk, no how...anytime.

He didn't make us all the same...he made us equal.

We matter...and our matter ripples. Would you hold in your kind hands for two minutes the idea that the woman you fell in love with and married...that same woman...is still falling in love with that man you were back then...?

Wrong of you to say...what if it's harmful OF you to think? Unhealthy? Misleading? Self-deceiving? Would that be different than "wrong of me to say"?

What if the junk needs to come out...be seen by you...heard...understood? What if there is no okay or not okay to your thoughts? What if you say a lot and then say...

Oh, I see that now. Look at that.

Because you have, and you will, and you do. You want me to know you put effort into your posts? That you're thinking in this last one, reviewing, considering, before posting?

Good to know.

You're in the routine of disparaging yourself...your stuff. Junk, garbage, trash...throwaways...left in the dirt, so to speak...buried stuff even? Means something to you...find out what...distraction into judgment of rather than consideration of? Sure would keep your answers hidden/buried that way...

What if you accepted your stuff as your stuff (not junk, not garbage) more?

What if you only apologized and amended for what you said/did that isn't in your code? Where you don't apologize for other people's feelings, their stuff? Think if you accepted your stuff more, you'd apologize for their stuff less?

If you told yourself less often, "I'm doing it wrong", think you would hear less often others saying "You're doing it wrong"? Like if you hear me saying it...and I'm not?

Rather, "How's that working for you?"

And would you consider that part of obsessive thoughts is the belief that thinking is doing? When it isn't? Has influence on what we do...it isn't doing or trying. I can spend a lot of time worrying a bit of something in the side of my mouth and in the end, because my tongue feels tired, feels like I was really working on it...when I wasn't.

Your questioning yourself is something that came up in my real life this morning...question was...when we begin to define ourselves...after having been defined externally for most of our lives...it seems to me like the chicken-and-the-egg...was I that way because someone said I was, or was I that way before they said it? Do you think too much or do get distracted in your thoughts from the question?

One is a measurement, a judgment...the other is a consideration of direction. Redirecting...not fixing, not wrong and certainly not useless. More knowledge is more awareness of yourself, isn't it?

Can't break any automatic patterns until you see them for what they really are and where they are coming from inside you.

Where has all your previous worrying gotten you? Has it protected, corrected, punished you enough for you not to screw up? Has it really changed the outcome in anyway?

Would you consider that because God works...things work? That they don't necessarily work themselves out...they work? They are? You are? Things, meaning outcome, is out of your hands...seems like you spend a lot of thought-time on figuring out how to get them into your hands.

Nice diversion from being in the present, to my way of thinking. And smacks very much of what I spent most of my thought-time on previous to coming to MB.

What if you always have something to lose in life...so you always have gratitude? What if you can handle, grieve, heal from and learn from loss...as you can from gratitude?

What if you minding your own stuff, with honesty, faitfulness, integrity...is the way to let go the outcome and to choose your results?

What if acting from your love, whom you choose, is the way you save your marriage...even if it's the act of going dark?

And what if all you learn about yourself and marriage during the last three years gives you sixty great ones? No matter what you lose, what you gain...great ones?

Would you do it? You already are doing it.

That's what I think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Which would mean you haven't been stuck (and it sure can feel that way) and you haven't been a screw up (though you know you've screwed up)...what kind of feelings result when you view it in this light?

What if wanting to get your crap on a respectable level takes you respecting yourself and others (which includes respecting outcomes are not in your control)?

Would dwelling on these thoughts give you what you want...answers within you...rather than looking into a future which isn't here right now?

So your life experience in the present is different?

What could the future be distracting you from, like a drug?

LA

P.S. I wasn't offended. I was thinking Star Wars...only they didn't float around out there, so I get that doesn't hit for ya. LOL. NO rush for the reply...may your weekend and Monday be what they will be...and you be present in them.

So I figured something out... or rather something I figured out sunk in maybe? Don't know... anyway...

I need to start paying less attention to

A) How life treats me
B) How people treat me
C) What I'm getting out of life and people

that causes reactions because I'm focusing on everything else and not myself

What I need to do is start watching

A) How I'm living
B) How I'm treating people
C) What I'm making of myself and my life

Would help me to find the positives, enjoy myself, feel good/alive, and everything should start to fall into place.

I don't know when I started doing the 180. Doesn't matter.

Need to stop asking "How's that working out for me?" and start asking "What can I do to make this work?".

I mailed that letter to WW yesterday. I thought it would be a good idea. I wanted to spare us an argument. I figured she'd refuse to take it, and I didn't want to react to that and cause an argument. I knew I'd try, but I didn't know if I'd succeed. So I figured this way might be better? I wondered if I was just afraid to give it to her, but I figured that if she has something to say about it then she'll say it whther I hand it to her or mail it. So I did what I thought would be right, and spared us an argument the best way I knew how for now.

talked to her yesterday. Almost have this insurance thing straightened out. I figured out alot of things yesterday. Realized that I whined and woe'd about that darned insurance thing and look... it's almost fixed already. I've done the same thing to my marriage, and even did it some when I talked to WW yesterday. I'm sure that had a great impact... and then it dawned on me this morning what I wrote up there... when I was thinking about things. I guess taking a look at how she sees me made me take a look at how I see me, which what I should have been doing right along. How many times have you told me that now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I guess maybe I've been fighting this because I just wanted really bad to "naturally be myself" and that having to actually try to be a certain way was struggling against that. Maybe I just couldn't see or believe that I've changed, or maybe I didn't want to. I think a part of me still doesn't. Just like a part of me doesn't want to let go of worrying, or "controlling". It all is tugging at me because I'm afraid. Afraid of losing her.

So. I'm glad I found a way to make it all start to sink in. that's how it usually works with me. I'm not guaranteeing great results here, not that you were looking for them... Just by me saying that I know that I am though... or would like them. Tugging. Wishing. Wanting. What will life give me today? Who cares.

What will I do with my life today?

Now THERE is a question that'll get me somewhere. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Did I tell you that I'm balding? 'cuz I am. Hmm. :P ROFL.

... Part B. I'll have to read more about that. At the pace that I move at though, I wonder if I'll even get to Plan (not Part) B before she files the paperwork.

Confession. She and I talked yesterday, and partially on the weekend. I don't know what got into me... but at some point she said something. and I told her I was mad at her (for the divorce). I was feeling a little hurt at the time... that's right (remembering now), and she said something aobut how I could go back to school if I wanted to also, and how she'd bake me great cakes later. I got flippant, said that she'd be baking them for "someone else" too and that I'd have to partake in some more cake smashery.

Then when she and I got talking yesterday, she said that she's doing what she's going to do and she didn't know what made me think that I could do what I did and still expect her to want to work things out. Then we went back and forth with who did what, got nowhere fast. I stopped told her, I didn't want to argue with her and that's when she said that I wrecked our marriage, and I said that we both did what we did and that it wasn't wrecked. That I believe that with enough time and work it can be fixed. At the time she didn't agree. I told her I was sorry she felt that way. I thanked her for helping me with the insurance issue and she had to go.

I need to work on how I handle myself. Stop looking at how she's treating me or our marriage, and look at what I'm doing doing to help it. Even if she kills it. Her choice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> for her choice, but <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> for me saying that. It's making comments like that that tell me I'm not minding my own business, so to speak.


Glad I caught that.

Gotta get to work.

Looking forward to your response, and enjoying my day.

:OD

Not much to report today. I reread what I said to her when I talked to her those two times. Took alot away from it. It's important to me to know that I'm still doing and saying backwards things on occasion when I'm talking to her. Keeps me aware of what I'm doing and what I need to change. I've noticed that I tend to slip most she's DJ'ing me or talking about the divorce. Things I probably already knew, but know to keep working on.

My insurance issue has been resolved! So glad for that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Something else of signifigance happened this morning too, but I don't remember what it was..? It was a good thing too. Not sure.

Didn't sleep well last night at all. Woke up at 2am like I have been the past few nights... up until 5am. I wake up, full of energy but dying for sleep. Sounds like Insomnia to me?

Still feel confidant that yesterday was a pretty revealing day, but nothing is written in stone. Always room for improvement and error.

Other than that...? Just passing time.

<:O)

This is spiffy... maybe we won't lose posts anymore? :eek: Love the new emoticons!!!

Had a good Easter... attended a funeral the day before. My sister's long time, High School Sweetheart's boyfriend's father passed away at 50 something with lung cancer. Great guy. He'll be missed by ALOT of people.

WW got me a new pair of jeans for Easter and a basket of goodies. Made it a point to let me know it doesn't mean that she likes me. Still nice one minute, snide the next. But that's neither here nor there.

Still not divorced... I've still not been served paperwork. That fact has been itching slightly at my curiosity, but I'm not biting. I've been enjoying myself lately, and working on my "stuff". Good things abound really. :OD

There's been other stuff happening too, but it's all just general life stuff that is always going on. DD gave up gymnastics for boxing because her coach said she was too overweight for the team. I probably saw that one coming, but don't agree with the coaches decision regardless (or the way it was handeled)... I don't believe weight should be a factor. Especially when DD is good, and tries really hard... and I'm not just saying that as her father. I didn't necessarily like the boxing idea either, but I'm not going to stop her from trying something new unless it looks like it could become a problem.

OM is still around, just as much if not more than ever.

WW and DD are going to Florida to see family next month. OM will most likely be taking care of the cat and the fish while they are gone. I know I should offer, that it can't hurt to offer, despite anything that may pop into my head... or what her response may be, or anything else... but I'd just as soon see if she asks and save myself from verbally getting ripped into 2 if she doesn't. I'm not sure how I'll handle that one yet, though truthfully I probably have a pretty good idea.

How was your Easter?

Hey there, Inf...

How are you? Sleeping better?

Glad your insurance issue was resolved (old news, eh?)

How is DD after her tonsils departed?

(Wow...look at all the choices...what is wrap some text in spoiler tags mean?)

Code tags?

PHP tags?

LA

I'm doing well. Thanks for asking! <:OD

Still not sleeping well... still having bad or no dreams frequently.

I'm glad for that too! If my car would stop having problems now... you win some, you lose some.

DD is great! Recovered just fine really. She's quite resilient.

She and I are getting along great, but she's been having some slight issues in regards to my last OW though (dreams and what have you), and going home and misbehaving for WW (and/or OM?) again. Seems this happens when she and I are closest... It's gotta be hard on her. I know it was hard for us kids. She's getting older, wiser... I'm sure she sees things, understands them better. WW is throwing blame. At me, and my family. Says that DD is fine with their situation and has been for a long time. You know me well enough to know that I sometimes have to bite my tongue when I hear that (and other things), though I'm still getting progressively better. Not only at biting my tongue, but not having to as well. I'm wanting to find it difficult to trust WW or my family with DD but am trying to get them to entertain the idea that things that I learn here and share with them are something they really ought to be applying to how they interact with her, instead of just plain telling them that they need to stop their garbage or I'm going to do something about it. And it's hard because I'm the only one DD refuses to talk to about any of this. I'm stuck in a position where doing my best is going to have to be good enough, which is fine I guess. Crossing my fingers and praying for good results (and a happy ending to all of this).