been doing this how long...? and I still haven't figured that one out. Haven't been able to wrap my head around not looking for the outcome.
Allright...let's go there. Do you control outcomes? Do you have the power to make others respond to you in the way you want them to, when you want them to?
Get to your nitty gritty beliefs--consider yourself as the child you were...how powerful were you in your relationships to others?
I know it's been driving me nutty too... but I can't seem to find a way to shut that off with her.
Have you found a way to shut it off with your mother, father, siblings? Are you practicing this with them? Not analyzing, devising...hearing their stuff as their stuff? Do you practice listen and repeat with filter with them?
Not crazy or unreasonable to me that this would be extremely difficult to do with your WW. There is the deep belief which was hidden within me, that marriage would heal all my past, present and future wounds...that my DH would fix me. Made him very powerful didn't I?
Not unreasonable to think that if he couldn't, no one could...still through him...not myself or my changes...kept my focus embedded in him...even made him part of my own filter for understanding, sensing and judgment.
Not yes/no/maybe as responses...listen and repeat IS a response.
She keeps telling me to accept things and do something else right now.
What's your reaction inside when she says this? Grasp the immediate one...is it "you can't tell me what to do" or "you can't control me" or "why are you telling me to do what I'm already doing?" or
I haven't been able to figure out how to do that.
just do what she says?
The marriage was my life and now it FEELS like my life is on hold until I get that yes or no answer.
Get reality with two hands...is your life on hold? Are you not living it, minute by minute, day by day? Or does it feel on hold because you keep re-experiencing the same thing with WW? You can change how you experience her...up to you, not her.
Understandable to want finality...especially when you are basing your choices in response to someone else's choices. Can greatly add to the "on hold" experience. Do you really wait to base your actions on others? Or do you act, anyway, based on your own decision. You've made your decision, you said. It was for now, to stand for your marriage. That determines your actions...how are you standing for your marriage? You state your stand, are not acting against your marriage (dating, fantasizing about others, love busting). Review your actions...not her words. Review how well you hold yourself to your boundaries...and see if you feel as much on hold as before.
You know you're in control of yourself whether you feel like you are or not. Your decision isn't predicated on her decisions. Your decisions, goals, desires are yours.
You would definitely feel controlled, at her mercy, by choosing to believe you can be controlled.
And reasonable, as well, because she is actually saying exact words and phrases you said while being wayward. You wanted her to wait your EA out and be there for you. That's what you've already chosen to do--part of standing for your marriage.
And you've held to your boundary of honesty and stated what you're hearing from her...same words, same perspective and perceptions. Note what you've already done...and how you had to stop the EA for yourself and your family...which means that power resides within her choices, not yours.
You are experiencing, right now. Know your experience. You want answers because...? Life is open-ended all the time...you choose, others choose...you choose again...a myriad of choices constantly.
If your deep urge for answers comes from your fear of the outcome, figure out when outcome...for you are in the midst of outcome all the time...and it sounds to me like you're overlooking results because you're solely focused on the ultimate outcome...for your marriage.
No on hold...you are actively living. You father every day. You brother, sister, son, cowork, stranger every day. You have the same weight on this planet as you did last year and the year before that--you ripple. Each choice you make does this. Could it be you shifted back into making those based on outcomes rather than your code? And waiting on the ultimate outcome means you aren't aware of daily choices at all? Would that give you the experience of inertia?
I see your active lies to yourself in your last post. Can you find some of them?
I consider hyperbole a lie to self (because that was one of my most often used deceptions). The "I don't see mhy I should have to wait until my kid is 35 years old to find out that she still loves me and finally wants me back." This thought would give me feelings of helplessness, frustration, resentment and anger. And the thought isn't close to reality or truth. It's a knife intended to get me to experience those same signals...which are false. Because you choose daily your goal, whether to stand by your previous decision or make a new decision.
Sneaky ways of keeping us feeling same stuff...hides the weapon behind our own back doesn't it?
Understandable when you've punished yours routinely for decades that when you stop doing it one way, you'll find a more subtle replacement to keep that routine. One after the other...discover and knock them down. You have to hold yourself to your boundary of honesty...so these deceptive thoughts violate that boundary.
You may even be experiencing being at her mercy as a signal you are reacting to being at your own mercy. You may even be merciless. You know you were in your EA and last year in your PA.
She can wish you wouldn't think, feel, believe or perceive the way you do...wish hard and long. Those wishes remain about her, coming from her, not you.
She chooses to distract from her stuff...understandable for her to ask you to distract from your stuff, too, isn't it? Understandable, not healthy. Not real. That's what I mean by don't go there...and you go there by taking her stuff to be your direction.
You are still working out the automatic reactions to enmeshment. At times, you experience yourself as really separate humans in one union...other times, you experience her as half of you...giving her the power to direct, guide, choose your thoughts for you, wish your feelings into being...buy into her ability to be the cause, control and cure for you.
Means more practice at re-centering. That's how I take that signal in my own life.
You aren't going to get fixed and stay fixed...the dichotomy remains...you aren't broken. You never were or will be. You will definitely experience your life as if you are if you believe it.
Check your beliefs. They are so doing stuff in there.
May lessen your compulsion to analyze others...happens when we view ourselves minutely...see to know...not to judge or change or fix or manipulate. Great sign when you catch yourself manipulating others...you are doing it as well to yourself. Sign of deception...and boy, you know I have that in me. Every word I write to you is also for me. All about me. All the time.
Let that sink in anew...I'm not fixing your life, your marriage or you. I'm looking at my own...through my filter...while I listen to you and hear many of my own thoughts and experiences.
See why enmeshment happens? Like a breeze to me. Not bad or good...it is. This human process allows us to connect and disconnect...to others and to ourselves...learn, grow, practice...gives us our automatics, even. As our awareness changes, so do our actions. Our choices.
Is there awareness in outcomes, or of outcomes?
Reasonable to me that when we discover more in ourselves to share it...not shrinks...and when we feel we've fixed ourselves to want desperately to fix others. Which is a great reminder we don't. We aren't broken. We're human. We have the mandate to know and be known...so fulfilling the second part when we are in massive discovery mode can easily go to "be like me"...we over step and disrespect...the lure? "If you're like me, be where I am right now, I exist (or I'll be happy, safe)."
Again, takes the deep belief we are damaged, broken, in need of repair...instead of knowing more and choosing differently. Right now.
I want to feel like I'm not involved in some great ordeal anymore.
Which means you believe you are involved, undergoing, some great ordeal right now. What if you chose to not believe that? What if you chose to believe you're living your life? You're in many relationships and right now, in a union that's been battered for a long time--and you have now stopped battering it?
You chose differently. Did you choose to stop battering it so you could control the outcome? Is that possible, as a human? Or did you change your dance steps within the dance because that's not really who you are?
Would your WW spouting a ton of fantasy really hit your ire and insecurity because you are continuing, in different tiny ways to dwell in it, also?
You have roles...which you take on by choice...and act from by choice. You are a husband, a father, son, brother, seeker, human, fill in all your roles...ferret out all of them...discern self from roles...you'll have many real ones and some false ones in there.
Peacemaker, fixer, smoother, artist, creator, lemming, geek, translator, pacifier, instigator, hot shot, doormat, punisher, pleaser...(some of my list obviously). Make your own.
Consider what may be hundreds of labels...and I'll do the same, 'k?
Do you resolve life...are you that powerful? Or do you resolve your stuff by knowing it, through awareness, acceptance, understanding...and change it through your choices?
Your beliefs will give you your feelings, which give you your life experience. Not the other way around. I know...I'm still ticked I was told to live backwards. I'm working on it.
Right there with you. I get it, lose it, rediscover it and re-center myself.
Not like we've never spoken of it before...all that has passed is real...was really shared. Where's the judge in you that says it's illegal or wrong to share it again, today?
Might be why her words (your words once spoken coming back at you) carry a deeper punch. Hey, you already learned that...move on! She's correct...she has to learn her own way. She only learns her own way (inherently) as do you. As you did.
Harder from this side, though, isn't it? Not wrong...there's your wishfulness in plain sight...wishing she wouldn't or would do differently, right now. She did differently before, remember? She's capable. Just like you.
What are you doing the same as before that you're not proud of? That may be outside your designated boundaries around yourself? What thought process, belief system or perception habits are you repeating?
The more you know of you, the more you can share with others...especially with DD. She'll see you choose, what work you do, define her own beliefs (you aren't that powerful, though it may seem like it as a parent)...have you shared with her how you control how much influence anyone has on you? How wide you open the door?
I believe your WW is bone-weary of pleasing others...to control outcomes/responses. I know it was fatiguing work for me...obsessive focus...lots of manipulation. You know this from your own experience. Validate and acknowledge...you learned controlling others through pleasing was fantasy. Endless, rewardless fantasy. You found your false payoff and discovered how disrespectful and harmful it was for you to please to avoid conflict (that's controlling outcomes, right?) and blocked intimacy. You really do understand this. You do feel for her. A kinship maybe?
When you're looking for lies to yourself in your last post...some of them are DJs. Does that help?
What comes isn't here yet. It is not reality. Sure distracts from what is...name what is reality right now. You can find out what you're distracting yourself from.
Have you kudo'd yourself silly with praise for speaking, sharing...holding true to your boundary of honesty, openness, intimacy? Or did you say what you did to get WW to think/feel/believe/choose differently? Your intent matters. It's the difference between experiencing self-admiration and esteem and bashing yourself for not changing what wasn't in your control to begin with. Difference of reality and fantasy.
Don't let anyone know things in subtle ways. Subtle is a judgment...often signals where you're being deceptive to yourself.
Hints, implication...name all the ways you verbally attempt to manipulate...so you can see you doing it to yourself.
Don't base what you say to DD on her possible response. That teaches her to not tell you what you may freak out at...feel anger about...teaches her to deceive you--the way to live and connect and be intimate on this earth. It's what you were taught, wasn't it? Because you were that powerful...that you can freak out others...doesn't respect that we freak, we process, we decide, and our feelings come from within us, for us, about us. Signals.
Same for WW. For everyone, correct? When you choose to believe you control others' responses you betray them and yourself.
Is that what you want? Is that what you don't want? Then instruct your brain that's not what you want. It's a choice.
You can remove yourself from your WW's LBs. In fact, it's your responsibility to your goal to do so. To not do is to be the bandit stealing from your own love and respect bank...and blame your WW.
She's in the same boat I was. She is out for number one, deathly afraid of facing anything related to what was causing her pain. She's even pegged DD for trying to hurt her now too. Been there, done that. Glad I won't ever again.
I'm thrilled you're committed to not making that choice of perspective again. And when you do (when you're not looking), how do you amend to yourself and others?
Yeah... I'm looking for answers taht aren't there and aren't needed. trying to protect myself from an imaginary enemy.
No wonder you DJ'd that your WW was looking at you both as her enemy. You caught yourself doing it, also...signalled yourself to take a look. What do you think?
Reality: Your wife had an expression. She looked. Fantasy: Like you both were her enemies, the enemies of her happiness, her entitlement.
I remember that from my life. Gave me the experience of being an enemy instead of a wife. Horrible experience. Necessary. Long time to see me doing that to myself.
Easy to see how in marriage, the reality is we are partners...and our experience is that we become enemies and allies, different depths of each, almost like one growing into the other and back again. Reality remains--we're partners.
"Oh well" will continue to feel like a stab inside of you until you put down the knife. "Oh well" isn't an answer...it's an expression. Only your WW knows what she means. It's a non-reply. All that you feel from it's impact is from you...adding, defining, sharpening and feeling dismissed. Part of that stab is you wanting a different answer...wanting to say, show something to make it not be her response. Means "oh well" isn't the outcome you were going for. Let go the outcome. Then hear those words as they really are.
"I'm choosing to not respond" is uhm, well, her response.
Feel the impact of choice...choosing not to act is EQUAL to choosing to act. Both matter. Is that a signal to you in some way?
Is to me...my choice to keep writing this post...adding words upon words. Over responsive?
Heck, I'm adding to my lengthy post--is "Oh well" a trigger statement for you? I triggered to my mother...when I was desperately trying to persuade her to give me permission to do something she wouldn't. Ack.
Tried this too. She said that I had to learn my way after making them suffer, now it's her turn. Which is where the punishment thing came into play. She's not punishing, "only" doing what she "needs". Same stuff from me. She has a response for everything, and if she doesn't she just says "Oh well."
Tried? Tried what? Or did you state, share...or say to get something different in response?
I feel punished by me because i felt punished by her. I keep slipping back into that role every now and again. Correction, I haven't been able to shake it entirely.
Maybe if I work on rephrasing here..."I felt punished by me...my choice to believe she was punishing me. Pre all A's...you chose to feel punished by her choices. Can you reach further back to where you felt punished before you met WW?
I'm afraid of saying "Divorce me and we are through forever" Healthy fear there...because making ultimatums is what got you here, isn't it? Remind how true is "forever" in that sentence? I don't want the divorce, let alone to have to uphold that decision. Divorce would be easier. Caution: You don't know if divorce would be easier...note lie to self...because you aren't divorced Not my choice. Resigned to living with a decision I have no control over, Might want to check here for self-deception...reality check: Are you resigned to living with a decision you have no control over...or resolved to stand for your marriage within your power and your limits? May not seem much different, will generate a different experience. is easier than saying I won't do it again. Telling her no would be like ripping my own heart out and stepping on it. Lost me...telling her "no" what? Ouch. That's the part I didn't know how to handle I guess? I don't know. Wasn't really even sure if that was some kind of DJ?
I don't like crossing my own boundaries, and fogging myself out with a partial result payoff.
Then mind YOUR boundaries...with awareness...fight your own fog...which is self-deception. Find those false payoffs within yourself for your continuing assumptions, hidden beliefs, choice of thoughts...bring them into your light to own and understand, embrace them...find their origination points. Hold them up to your light of reality and see them for what they are and where they came from. Stay aware they transform, mutate, replace and strive to keep you in the habit of DJs. Do so lovingly.
Nothing. or I'm not sure? The only thing I know I would have asked for was that she had hung on just a little longer and not given up on me even if I had told her too.
So do this for yourself inside and for your marriage.
I'm glad you came back to make this post.
You're welcome. I'm glad I came back for me, too.
LA
I haven't told WW that I have it yet. Told her I was getting it, but that was it. Haven't had time. last night was the first night I'd been home before 9pm in awhile, and I crashed on the couch on accident for most the night. I needed some sleep apparently. it catches up to me every 2 or 3 months and I need one night to make it up. Last night was it apparently. Slept pretty well. Something I haven't done in a few weeks.