Where do we draw the line between what is fog and what is just natural character?

How much can we really right off as fog?

And how in the world do you tell the difference?

Personally, I am reaching my limit of labeling my WH's behavior as "fog."

Any takers?

At one point I told WH what I had read about on here, how former WSs had described themselves as being in a fog, and from that point on he and his OW used it as a little joke to each other in their text messages -- "Oohh, I love you, I guess I'm still in the fog!" "Oooh, me too, come back into the fog with me, ha ha!"

So, I don't know. He certainly doesn't seem like the man I married, but whether that's the fog of temporary insanity or his true colors I don't know. Probably the latter. He tells me this is the real him.

I'll say that if someone could reliably tell the difference he/she'd be more popular than Dr. Phil.

I think it's safe to say that "fog", aka love drug (dopomine) influences, are relatively short lived in the grand scheme of things. But "short" could be widely variable from individual to individual.

IMHO, at some point character influences have to become dominant. My XW has been married to OM now for about 3 1/2 years. Affair onset was approx. 6 years ago. Is she still in the fog? I doubt it. She sure was for quite a while! By now she's hunkered down into the fortress mentality and "relies" on character influences to continue to deny she did anything wrong.

I am not a quack - well not a licensed quack <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - and these are just my observations and opinions.

In my STBX's case, his 'fog' is an exaggeration of his worst personality traits.

He's always been someone who thinks that he is 'owed' something, and 'entitled' to things. He also has an infuriating way of insisting that, whatever is wrong with me, somethings that are happening to him are far worse!

He is 'entitled' to have an affair because it makes him 'happy'. My heart has been ripped out and trampled on the ground, and I'm bringing up our children single-handed with virtually nothing to live on, but things are worse for him because I exposed the affair, and want him to pay for lighting and heat. If he did that, he might not be able to wing off to Spain with the OW every school holiday!

This is one of the reasons that I don't think he'll ever change, and why I am getting divorced. Even if he is in fog, if he can't accept that his affair almost killed me, and that it was a horrible thing to do, to me and our children, then I don't want to know him, fog-bound or not.

Alph.

Even if he is in fog, if he can't accept that his affair almost killed me, and that it was a horrible thing to do, to me and our children, then I don't want to know him, fog-bound or not.

Alphin..

that defines you as a true marriage builders success story...

inspite of non recovery of a marriage...

you my friend...are greatly blessed to have such insite and clarity...
it will serve you well...
for you will move in what is true and right for you...

ARK

EXACTLY!!! Well, well, put.

Part of what I would need to recover my marriage would be for WH to take ownership of this whole nasty mess he has made. Like you, I am not certain he ever will.

How did I miss this?
This IS MY Wh (minus the trips to spain). Everything is wrong for him. He has yet to ask where our grocery money comes from. Is content because he knows I will take care of my children. I will step up to the plate.

But he's the victim. He's the one with the problems. Those are the kinds of character flaws I see despite fog coming through. The only way change will happen for someone like this is if THEY want to change.

That's so right! And I know my STBX well enough to know he doesn't want to change.

I might sound bitter here - I don't think I am now - I was, but not any more <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> but my STBX seems to think that he's God's Gift. And he really, really isn't.

He drinks, a lot. He is quite seriously overweight. He snores like I don't know what. He doesn't give a hoot about his appearance. One of the reasons I didn't know about the affair was because he didn't try to make himself more attractive for the OW - often a giveaway - didn't even shave for her! Just the same old slob. He must really think he has it - well, OW obviously thinks so! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My point - after that little, slightly sour rant - is if he won't even change for the OW during the 'honeymoon' stage of the affair, what hope does our marriage have? Why would he change for me, for us? He obviously thinks he's perfect, no need to change anything!

Alph.