Hi everyone.

I'm ok. My H tried to spew some more venom at me today but I didn't allow it. He tried to tell me that I needed to be better at being a mom to our kids. He also accused me of lying about DS13 wanting to go to counseling and about talking badly of him and the OW at work. He even tried to drop a name without going into any details. I finally just told him the facts but not before I had the chance to hang up on him. He started yelling at me and I just hung up. I went back to mowing the lawn and he called me back. He asked me if I was going to hang up on him again and I replied that I would if he started yelling at me again.

He would start to raise his voice and I would ask him if he was going to start yelling and then he would lower his voice again.

Now, in response to my supposed lying. I asked him if he had proof that I was lying. He didn't. I asked him if he had lied to me in the past two years. Of course he had to admit that he had. I said that even though he had lied to me many times, I had never called him a liar. Then I got to business, I asked him if he had lied to me in the last month. He denied it. I asked him when he got his cell phone. He said that he got it at the same time as he got our DDs. Ok. I asked him when that was... Before or after he left. He wouldn't say. Just "sometime around there." I asked him again and he still said the same thing. I then asked him if Feb. 26th sounded right. Since he left on the 13th of March, that is quite awhile before he left.

Now is where I really challenged him. OH man it felt good to call him on his lies and deceptive behaviour. I asked him "how can you accuse me of lying without proof when you are still not being honest with me. You have yet to be completely honest about any of this. So before you point a finger at me maybe you need to remember that the other 4 are pointed at yourself.

In response to the "step up to the plate and be a mom" venom... I told him that he and our DD are the only ones who believe I am not doing a great job. I told him that I am depressed but who wouldn't be. I told him that I get up every morning with my goal of getting through the day without making a big mistake and hurting our children more than they are already hurting. I told him that our children are fed, have clean clothes to wear, get where they need to be when they need to be there and know that I love them. If my house isn't as clean as he would like it then that is just too bad because that isn't my highest priority. Then I told him that I don't make any judgements about what he is doing or not doing. Even though, I know he has it alot easier then I do. I asked him when was the last time he cooked a meal, made a bed, did his own laundry, or even vacuumed. I said that maybe he has to mow the lawn at his parents house but I was doing that right now and my lawn is a lot bigger. I told him that he doesn't get to judge me when he isn't even taking care of himself. That when he has walked in my shoes then he can make a judgement. Since I haven't walked in his shoes, I havent made any judgements about his behaviour or lack of it.

I also made a point about how he was able to be sooo angry with me for endangering his sisters job even though I told them I didn't want anyone to lose a job over the issue, but how he could so easily decide that if the OW cost me my job, then I must have deserved it. I told him that all of this was on him and whether he liked it or not, the truth is the truth. It doesn't change just because you don't like it. I said that the truth was that I cared for him and I worked my butt off to show him that. And, that he chose to walk away from his marriage and family because of anger and pride.

Anyway, I got a lot off of my mind. Maybe not a great plan A. But, it needed to be said. He got sooooo quiet by the end of that convo. I felt so empowered. I stood up for myself and our marriage and my beliefs and I faced him straight on about his lack of compassion and his self-serving attitude.

After all of this, he decided to go to a counselor about parenting our kids through this ordeal. He wants the kids to be there throughout the session and I disagreed. He says that he won't go then and I said that was his choice, but I will not sit face to face with him to discuss this without a third party to keep it on track and prevent me from being attacked verbally. I finally just told him that I will agree to whatever is best for the kids and if he would agree to the same, then we can take care of our kids the way they deserve.

My counselor says that having the kids there would accomplish nothing except hurt them and open up a "bash mom" session. That my boys would shut down and my DD would become a parrot of her father. We'll have to see about if he will attend or not. I am also prepared for my DD to decide that she wants to stay with her dad. It hurts but I will allow it because then he will see what he has created.

The good news on the phone records was that he only had 2 calls to her number since he got his phone and they were <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />on March 26th and they were for a minute each. I am waiting for her records to arrive anytime now. Then I will see if she has been contacting him.

I am growing stronger now. It is one painful process and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But, I know that I will be a better person after this. I hope that my H will be able to say the same someday. I know that right now he is nothing like the man that I married. If he doesn't give up that pride or become broken is spirit, he will become a miserable, critical, sad and lonely old man. That will be on him too. I can't accept the blame for that one.

Loving him anyway,
Loni

H is being a jerk. He went by my dad's yesterday. I had been there in the afternoon and cleaned and brought him some lunch. I went to vacuum and the cordless vac's battery lost it's charge. So, I plugged it into the charger and told my dad that DS was coming over the next day and he would vacuum since it would be charged by then.

I went to Hacienda with a couple of friends and H called while I was there to tell me something about our DS13 which I knew. He hung up real quick when I answered his question about where I was. Then he went by my dad's and my dad told him that our DS17 was going to vacuum for him the next day. My H says "bull@#$#!! Loni can do it. Or I can take the equity in the house." My dad, of course, didn't respond to it but called me this morning to tell me. Asking me what was wrong with H. He didn't want me to tell h that he had told me but I called my DS17 and explained about the vacuuming and DS was fine with it. Then I told H that the constant criticism is going to have to stop. I told him that I was keeping family out of the divorce stuff and He brought it up with my dad and criticized me to my dad. He said that I needed to take better care of my dad and I told him that I am and it is none of his business.

OK, it gets better. My DS13 was told by me to not go to his friend's house (aka the OW's house). He agreed but when I called him to check on his choir performance from this morning, he was over there. I told him that he is not to be over there because I don't think the OW is a good person and I don't want him around her. When I told H about what DS and I had agreed to, he told me that he was going to do whatever he wanted with the kids. Good. I can really begin to understand the whole "hate your ex" mentality. I really have to make a conscious choice to still love him in spite of how he treats me. He hasn't protected me one bit in a very long time. From himself or anyone else. And I am getting very sick of the constant criticism. I got criticized less when he lived here. This is getting to be ridiculous.

Just venting. I might actually believe that I am much better off without this man. I don't know if my H, not the WH, even exists any more.

Loni

Sorry, Loni. It is true. Your former H does not exist anymore. You are now dealing with a WH.

I am so mad that I am shaking. My son spent the night at the OW's house last night and when I talked to him, he was in her car on the way to her church. What do I do about this? I have become the bad guy again. I could just throw a brick at my WH for defying my instructions to the kids. My DS13 knew that I didn't want him over there and he went anyway.

Someone please advise me on what to do now.
Loni

It is unfortunate that your WH chooses to encourage your kids to defy you. They are teens, and this just feeds into their feelings of rebellion. He is doing things that are harmful, but doesn't seem to care.

I suggest family counseling. Right now it is about spending time with the OW, later it might be about drugs.

hey loni...

i actually scanned all your posts today before i wrote this, so this is totally my opinion and an observation im making from all that has happened....

ill say something about your kids first...the ULTIMATE betrayal that you can have, is your kids "seemingly" turning their back on you....i know how you feel, but like it or not, they are at an age where they CANNOT really do anything about it...they will go along for the ride and right now, they have 2 choices...

im going to be blunt here...OK....

the first choice is that they have a "disneyland" relationship with your WH and OW...its fun, they are going out of their way to "buy" their love and affection...so on...

the second choice is you...you are an emotional wreck...your upset at work, your upset at home, you fight with your D and it just creates alot of tension....

remember, kids that age care about one thing....themselves...they dont look at the big picture...its like a race, they sprint to the first turn, because its all they see, they dont see the finish line because they DONT CARE!!!!

you CANNOT compete with WH and OW...no matter what you do, right now the OW and WH have all the energy and each other to feed off of....its all "happy" times with them...the kids are going to choose that....it has nothing to do with right/wrong in their minds...its all about them....

you on the other hand....you finally have to take a hard look at yourself and ask, "at what price are you willing to pay" to save your M....

you are paying a heavy toll emotionally and physically already, that may take years to fully recover, if ever...

teenage kids are CRUEL....they WILL push your buttons and the minute you tell them NO or that they cant do something...they will LASH out and hurt you...you have inconsistant boundries between WH and yourself...

really.....who DO you think they will want to hang out with???? c'mon....you know the answer already...they will go the easy way....where its fun and "i can do what i want"....

no matter what...you are still the parent...you are not their friend, keep that in mind when you deal with them....
they will not care right now, they dont care howmuch you tell them you love them....it all about them....so you have to stop killing yourself over something you cannot control...

in reality............

THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO....at this time....the harder you try to control your kids and contact with OW, the more they will go out of their way to paint you as BAD and spend time "winning them over"....

I went through it, i know.....

this is not going to end soon, you have to accept that...its time you start to prepare to move on and take the steps to protect yourself financially and emotionally....

just keep consistancy and keep being the MOM to your kids....right now..everthing thing is screwed up and blurry for them too...just dont forget that....

as far as family counselling....UNLESS they want to go, it will be a waste of time....offer it, but you cant force them...they will just resist and get madder at you...thats what happened to my kids....i offered, they resisted, finally it became futile, JMHO....

theres so much more i can say on this....but im outa time...

hang in there, and DONT lose your trust in GOD....even when its hard times and makes no sense!!

thanks Sturgis,

I bet the kids do feel more relaxed with their dad but I really can't do too much about that. I will just be the best mom that I can be and let God handle the rest.

My DD15 lied to me today and then disrespected me. So I waited till she got home and I grounded her from the internet and gave her 500 sentences of "I will not disrespect my mom." I hope that she will begin to realize that she needs to show respect to both her parents.

I have set up to talk with my H on Friday about the kids. I will meet him at a restaurant and I will look great, smell great and be completely calm, cool and sexy as heck. Plan A continues even if I am angry as all get out at my WH. I still have plan B set to begin at the end of next month. Got to go dark with a great plan A behind me. Man this is going to be hard work. Wish me luck and strength. I still want my marriage and my H back. I won't settle for the WH though. I have learned that I really don't like that guy too much. I love my H.

I talked with my DS13 about spending time with at the OW's house. He knows how I feel about it and told me that the OW denied threatening my job and that she was very polite to me and that I just threatened to kick her butt without any provocation. Yeah, right. Whatever. I know that she's a liar and my DS says that he doesn't believe her and knows that I won't lie to him. I haven't either.

I really hate all of this but I will get through it to the other side. I am praying so hard every day and I know that God will reward me for doing his will. Please pray for me to stay strong for this is soooo hard.

Loni

just dont forget this, your WH has already "de-valued" you, dis-respected you, be-littled you, has taken away your sense of worth in front of your kids...do not get your hopes up and do not believe ANYTHING he tells you when you meet with him...

all he cares about is nurturing the relationship with OW and getting your kids to accept it as OK...

when you talk about the kids, it wouldnt surprise me that he will agree to be consistant, agree that he needs to do things to keep discipline and boundries in line, as soon as you turn your back, he will do the opposite...

my X still lies to me and is totally inconsistant...she wants to be kids "friend" and totally tries to sway their loyalty...

let me give you an example, just this past weekend, my daughter and i had an arguement over some dis-respect, she wanted to go to moms house, so on....i wouldnt let her, even though that would have made my life much more peacful....later we talk the next day, discusss our issues and it just so happened to be over the OM....she defended him in a situation in front of me....anyway...you get the picture...

so, she was at X house, X was gone and it was just her and OM in the house....she asked OM to do a favor before she left somewhere....HE BLEW HER OFF!! kinda gave me a "warm and fuzzy" feeling...if you know what i mean...they all eventually learn that the OP dosent care anything about them, its all about themselves and when the X isnt around, they can care less.....

kids are not stupid, they KNOW more than we ever give them credit, they know who loves them, who REALLY cares about them and THEY know when they deserve discipline...they NEED IT!!!

even though they know all this, remember what the bottom line is....above all else, they are SELFISH!!! its all about them...

as discouraged you get, just keep in mind, that your H as no desire to make it easy on you, has NO desire to help you in your struggle with kids....

ITS ALL YOU right now....you alone, when you deal with the problems and such....stay strong and keep consistant boundries....

and remember....when they lash out, and it will happen....DO NOT TOLERTAE disrespect or disobidience...they MUST know that no matter what, you are still the parent...

your H is a sad and dispicable human being right now,not worthy of being called a man or father....but unfortunatley, thats who your kids dad is, no matter what he does, at this age he will still have their loyalty, so keep that in mind, however one day, they may wake up and see who truely LOVES them.....

ill talk 2 ya soon...

I am going to Plan B tomorrow. Please pray for me. This is what has happened...

Phone records for both cell phones came back. No calls from his to hers or from hers to his. BUT... She had over half of the 1100 calls in one month go to a certain cell number. When I tracked that number, it came back as she was the owner. OK... You don't talk to yourself for that long and that often from your other cell.

No answer when I called it, of course, using a *67 number. In fact it went straight to voice mail without any introduction. I found out from her XH that she had another cell that was supposed to be for one of the kids which is now missing. I also found out that my DD15 found an extra cell in her dad's truck this weekend.

My counselor says it's time to give it up to God. I am so sad and hurt. I don't want this guys. I don't deserve this man like this but I don't want this either. I have spent two years not giving up and now I need to. Oh please, God, please make me strong enough for this. Please pray for this sitch. This is NOT what I want at all and I don't want that woman with my kids. Oh man, this is really awful. I am giving it all to God but I am so scared that there is a bunch more of pain in store before I ever get to feel better. My Pastor's wife tells me that God has something good waiting for me. Man I really need to know that.

Loni

the cell phone game....its probably what happened...i work around numerous people who have A's...and they all have a "cold" phone for that reason....

now that you know, it really changes nothing....just stick with your plans, and prepare to move on until something happens.

I just hate sneaky people. My WH had a cell phone I didn't even know about. How cowardly. I also found out about it from my step-daughter. WH criticised her for telling me, and it put a wedge between she and I that has lasted for 3 years now.

I feel for you. Hang in there and don't be surprised at how low some people can go.

If you decide to do a Plan B, be very prepared first.

Update...

The OW filed a restraining order against me. OMGoodness. Isn't that unreal? I have talked to my lawyer. He is waiting to see if the judge signs it. The county she filed in is notoriously difficult for giving out PPOs. My lawyer doesn't believe that the judge will sign it.

Since I'm not in planB yet, should I tell my WH about the PPO? I'm thinking not. I am also looking into filing one in my county for myself and my kids. My lawyer says I won't get it but he is sending a letter to My WH's lawyer for the contact between the kids and the OW to cease and desist.

Keep praying for me. I am currently at work but I will post back with my copy of the Plan B.

Loni

It is crazy how these people think. I would ignore her - she doesn't merit a minute more of your thoughts.

Hang in there Loni!

Have you set up an "plan B" appointment with Jennifer yet?

I hope things calm down for you abit today.

Loni,

I am very sorry for the latest development. I just wanted to let you know that I have been following your story and praying for you.

Be strong, you will get through this. There is always the light at the end of the tunnel.

Milk

I have been trying to get an appt set with Jennifer for setting up a good Plan B. WH just accused me of lying again. Not surprised but I am getting really sick of a liar and cheater accusing me of lying. I am almost looking forward to plan B. I need the break from his line of crap. He seems to be pretty upset about the kids having to stay away from the OW. Too bad. If I could have moved them a 1000 miles away from the OW, I would have. What is the big stinking deal, unless he's trying to get the kids to actually start liking her.

I really hope that doesn't even begin to happen. I don't think that I could handle that. But, then again, I didn't think that I could handle this either.

I just went to visit my friend who lost her 17 yr old son, this last weekend. It really puts all of this in perspective but at the same time, I don't hurt any less. Kind of selfish, huh? I prayed with her and really tried to call up what helps me when I feel like there is no end to the pain. I hope I helped a little.

Loni

Sorry to hear about your friend's son. That really puts all of this in perspective.

Your husband is doing what they all do, trying to legitamize his affair by bring the kids to see the OW. Don't take it personally - he is just going directly by the WH handbook.

You must take the higher road, be the secure parent in this situation, because you are all they really have.

Here is a plan b letter in it's rough form. Please chime in and give me some help.

Dearest WH,

I am writing this to tell you that I love you and that I want our marriage to survive and grow into one that makes you happy and myself happy. But through the last few years, I have felt the love I have for you weakening. In order to preserve the love I have left for you, I need to avoid contact with you and I ask you to please not contact me. This isn't to punish you and I don't intend for this to hurt our children in any way. It is to protect myself from further hurt and the good feeling that I have left in my heart for you.

I know that our marriage was a very good one and that we both did things to hurt each other. I am very sorry for the actions I have taken that hurt you. I have spent the last two years learning how to be a better wife. I have made mistakes that I can't take back, but I want you to know that I would if God let me. I am still looking into my heart and searching my soul and I pray that I will be a better woman, mother, and hopefully wife in the near future.

I have asked my friend, $#@%$, to act as an intermediary for urgent cases involving the kids or other important issues. She will make sure that I am contacted whenever it is necesary. If you feel more comfortable with your brother, %$^, to act as intermediary for you then I have no problem with that as long as he is fine with it. You can email me either here or at my work email, but I request that you keep this to a minimum and that it be only about the issue at hand.

If, you decide to end your relationship with Ms. OW, then I would like to resume contact with you and look into repairing the damage our marriage has sustained. During this time apart, I will continue to work on the things that I failed at during our marriage.

I love you very much and I hope to have the opportunity to make a marriage that would bring joy to all of us and that would meet the needs that both of us have. Please know that I care for you and I am praying for your well-being every day. Take care of yourself.

Love,
Loni

Just a few comments Loni,


I would leave this bit out. It will give him a way to contact you without the intermediaries. He will expect you to be monitoring your email and expect a prompt response. I wouldn't give him this "in".




How about instead of "then I would like to resume contact" use "then I could resume contact". This wording just sounds a little less "needy" to me. IMHO.


I would also add a short paragragh about contacting your lawyer for ALL legal matters. Your lawyer will contact you if it something that you need to address.


If we're going to "B" him make him HAVE to go through the intermediaries.

I know for a fact that after the letter is in hand he is going to "test" you on this. Phone calls / emails / regular mail / dropping by / messages through the kids.

Just a few suggestions for you in implementing this:

Phone Calls: Block ALL the numbers that you know he may use on your cell and house phone (his cell, OW's cell and house, IL's, work #'s etc... You can also inform your workplace not to accept calls to you from him.

emails: I would recommend setting up some rules so that mail coming from "suspect" accounts will immediatly be permanately deleated. Call me if you need some help with that.

Regular Mail: Regular mail addressed to you from him should be tossed unopened. It would be even better if you had a shredder. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dropping By: If he's at the door, close it and disappear into the house. Better yet have the kids answer the door. BTW the Kids are going to have to help you with this on and not passing on messages for him. You'll have to explain this to them. This is YOUR last major push to reclaim your M.

BTW: Have you gotten your appointment with Jennifer yet? and how is you Dad doing?

Stay Strong Loni.

It sounds excellent to me, but WTF has fine-tuned it. Be absolutely sure that you have thought of everything, because Plan B is so difficult at first.

But once you get into it, it makes your life so much better.