We have been right in the middle of plan A, and boom. he calls me this evening to tellme he is leaving for a while so he can "think about why he doesnt have the feelings that he should for his wife."

a little background- EA with coworker revealed to me via finding an email.

6 weeks later, after agreement of NC, which was broken 2-3 times the last on March 3. Supposedly NC reinstated next day. getaway last week during which he expressed his love for me and good feelings about our R and future. Plan A actively in place since Monday, after long teary discussion on both parts that he doesnt know what he wants and feels.

Am I in Plan A or a forced Plan B? Not sure if this is about OW (withdrawal) or simply that he has been unhappy for months unbeknownst to me (before A.)

Am I dealing with plan B due to contact that I am not aware of, or do I doPlan A while he is not here? he says he will be gone for a week or so- plans on "keeping the kids" some this weekend.

Please advise a confused soul!!!!

Me BW 29
WH 30
DD 5
DS 14 months
d-day 1-27-06
thought I was in Plan A, but......

Sounds to me like there is still contact. Whenever they want time away to "think", it usually means they want time to spend with the OP WITHOUT interference.

So do I start Plan B?

CGU...

No one can force Plan B on you. Your choice. I'm repeating myself.

I would stay in Plan A because you haven't been doing it for yourself and need more time to get it thoroughly.

Are the kids a burden? He walks because he needs time to poke OW (find his out why he doesn't love you like he thinks he should is code for poke OW)...and you're worried about him having time with the kids he's walking out on?

Your boundaries are important. Plan A doesn't deal in fantasy. Help out.

I think you know this is both an EA and PA. I believe you know why your week away was so blissful and so does your H. He's doing a really terribly wrong thing here and on your return, the guilt accompanied the contact.

We are helping you to know reality when you're being spun around with fantasy.

Not to cause you more pain but to free you from painful confusion.

LA

I was told most women do Plan A for about 6 weeks. That is usually the most as it begins effecting you physically & emotionally.

How do you feel??

Kim

Believer is dead right. He wants to screw OP without your interference.

CGU,
I dont know what to tell you except that Loving has great advice. She is one you can listen to. My WH said those exact same things to me...I dont love you like a husband should love a wife; doesnt know what he wants or what he feels. Been there, still doing that. But know that we care and we can listen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

K

I think Harley advises women three months and men six months? Could be wrong. I know that I Plan A'd for three months and had to continue it even longer after recommitment because he stated it would be a long time before I was considered in the recommitment.

My litmus test for going to Plan B...are you doing it in reaction to WH or because you feel you have shown your best person, consistently, without LB, exposed all avenues, and so Plan B is you saving your marriage in a different way?

I think those criteria not only decide the timing but the success indicators for Plan B.

LA

should I contact OW H and tell him WH left? Maybe he could be more watchful and notice if OW is spending more time away from home. Maybe together we could gather evidence that the A is indeed continuing.

The reason that I hold onto the idea that NC has still been in place is b/c OW was on vacation with OW H for the past week and has not been to work. Boss told me tonight that WH has not been to the office since OW has returned to work and assured me that he is keeping a watchful eye on goings on at the office.

I am definitely in a state of painful confusion!

I have definitely not implemented a strong Plan A. Daily through my Plan A efforts I have LB'd and initiated and participated in R talk.

It kills my soul to think that A is ongoing and that it is in fact PA as well as EA.

I checked his email just now after 2 weeks of trying to "trust" him, and lots and lots of old emails that have just been hanging around are gone, which leads me to believe that there must be somthing to hide.

Thanks, LA- Im definitely NOT ready for plan B yet.

Do I need proof of contact before deciding to move to Plan B in future?

I might be remembering wrong, but I called into the Harley show & I think that's what Dr. Harley told me.(I think he shortened it down from 3 months for women) He was surprised that I did Plan A for 5 months....

Anyway, that's beside the point.

LA has some very good indicators for going into Plan B ----Also, you don't want your LB to be totally drained from WH"s actions....

Kim

As Melodylane said to me once "why would you trust an untrustworthy person?"

I felt it harsh at first--but it is true. He has given you no reason to trust him. You have every RIGHT to check his e-mail. It is a standard thought here that marriage should be an open book. Allowing him the privacy of e-mail accounts is like giving him free access to OW. That's not trusting--that is appeasing the WH, because if your WH is anything like mine--he probably made it seen like you were wrong for "spying" on him.

All I can say is keep spying. You have a right to know if your H is cheating. If contact is continual.

Keep plan A up. It will help YOU more than you think. R talk should be totally out of the question--they are unable to get it at this point.

ANd yes, I'd let OWH know your WH moved out. First thing in the morning we'd be on the phone.

bump for morning crowd

I emailed owh and informed him of WH moving out. spying via email is no longer an option as it is a work account that can only be accessed on his laptop, which Im sure he will be collecting while I am working today.

So, Plan A ( if I even talk to him- dont want to right now)

also- he's been taking bunches of money out of bank accounts. Am I entitled to move half of checking/savings to a new account of my own?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Dern tootin'!!!!

disclaimer - get real legal advice from an attorney NOW!

I suggest you take immediate steps to protect your liquid assets.

Based on your records, secure 50% of all liquid assets that existed BEFORE his first "unauthorized" withdrawal. Leave the remaining 50% (or less, based on what he already took out).

Inform him that you've done this. NOT BEFORE! Afterwards.

When you talk to an attorney, find out all the local options for obtaining a legal separation. This is for your protection, and it has a side benefit of dealing consequences to the WS. Costs for your attorney come out of your 50%. DO NOT let one attorney handle the sitch for both of you.

JMHO

WAT

Forgot this part -

Also consider cancelling joint credit cards.

WAT

cantgiveup, my WS told me a similar line to what your WS told you about leaving. I had a strong urging that he was not being truthful with me. However I moved out of the way. When I did, he went to be with her and they slept together.

At that time I hadn't been able to deal with it. I saw it as a personal failing. He had thrown up so many smokescreens that I was confused. Prior to this point I wasn't doing a very good Plan A.

One thing I do regret is that I didn't find a way to stop him from leaving. However when I realized what was going on I got more direct about trying to do a Plan A. I exposed the A and began Plan A. However I stopped short of completing it later on when I didn't really understand what my intent was and felt simply tired of me and him and the whole situation.

La. makes a great point. If you do Plan B in response to WS and haven't put forth a Plan A that you are pleased with you may regret it.

I believe this is why I'm facing it (A, Plan A, continued marital problems) for a second time. If I am not mistaken Dr Harley advises it is better to not seperate (the BS and WS). So are there some things you can do to not, manipulate him but try to encourage him to stay?

THe A definitely needs some more exposing.

Also do you have a number to call OWH and talk to him directly?

I'm not sure about the money. Please keep us posted.

I forgot that part of my Plan A...splitting bank accounts. That was important. We'd never had seperate finances before in our marriage.

I thought it would be a big LB to my H...instead, we both were relieved. He was a shopaholic and I thrived on bashing him for it. Seperate accounts meant I got his pay check, halved the bills and paid him the difference between his income and our outgo...and he felt this was both helpful and loving...no more bashing, natural and true restriction on his spending (not imposed by me), and it has remained through now.

We have begun talking about changing back to shared accounts.

And no joing credit cards exist (part of seperating accounts) though in my state, still would be considered marital debt, I'm told. I thought I could make a better case for his expenditures not being on me or the marriage that way. Glad I didn't have to find out.

LA

dealing consequences- meaning what? That my home does not have a revolving door? Just trying to clarify what you mean. (doesnt sound like Im in Plan A anymore!!!!)

"dealing consequences" in that there are real consequences that a WS needs to face when they separate (not to mention other decisions). Consequences of decisions are easily overlooked in the WS stupor. Going thru the legal separation process and splitting of assets potentially interupts the fantasy and, thus, can be a dose of reality.

About Plan B - IMHO, you are not there yet.

Please, please, please do not try to shoehorn a specific timeframe for Plan A. All cars and drivers are not the same and the mileage you get may vary. Others may say 3 months, 6 months - whatever. I say - baloney. THIS IS MY OPINION!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The objective reasoning way to determine when to go to Plan B requires we first review what the purpose of Plan B is: to prevent the BS's love bank from going in debt. It also shields the BS from further direct pain inflicted by the WS - but this is just another way of saying we're protecting the last bit of the bank balance. (It has a side benefit of saying loudly to the WS: "You decided to separate from me - I'm deciding to STAY separated!" The BS takes control.)

So, when does a BS know when their balance is approching E? Beats the chit outta me! Ya gotta feel it, I guess. Reasonably, this is different for different BSs. An example of when it's clearer might be Iamsolost's recent Plan B entry decision - her H got verbally abusive. An easy call for her (well, easier than normal). But this is rare.

IMHO, another important factor to consider is the timing of the WS's decision to move out. Plan A instantly becomes less efficient when this happens - just because of the reduced interaction opportunities. This doesn't mean Plan A has been "completed." Hardly. Remember, Plan A is mostly about the BS finding and fixing all the bad juju he/she brought to the marriage. You do this all by yourself (ideally with input from the WS). What becomes tougher after separation is demonstrating the Plan A fixes.

IMHO, Plan B before physical separation is a non-starter. It just doesn't make sense, although you'll hear of some who have tried it and maybe even the MB counselors have advised it. But I think this is a last resort.

Even after the WS moves out, a lot of interaction may be neccessary in securing a legal separation (or the legal equivalent depending on the laws in the locale). Going through this interaction brings us back to your question of "dealing consequences" and presents a really good Plan A interaction opportunity to be loving despite the nastiness of the exercise.

Soooooooo, bottom line, based on the discussion above, here are my recommended Plan B entry conditions.

Go to Plan B when ALL of the following have been accomplished and no later:

1. All appropriate exposure has been accomplished,
2. Plan A improvements have been made AND demonstrated to the WS to the extent the WS will allow,
3. A physical separation has occurred, and
4. Legal steps are in place that specify division of assets, child custody, etc.

This may be sooner than hitting empty on the love bank. But in recognition that Plan A is less efficient after separation and to "pile on" the concept of consequences of the WS decision to separate, going to Plan B all in one swell foop ASAP after all the legal stuff is set up and "force" all ENs to be made by the OP, this makes sense to me to be the best timing, all things considered. One other point - many, many BSs have said that they wish they had gone to Plan B sooner after separation.

Again, JMHO.