Just a curious question --- How many had spouses who "fought" the MB system? Say, you were all for it & they didn't want to follow it. I guess the question applies to both FWS and BS.....

I might not be asking this properly....I guess some WS don't want to follow it at all b/c it breaks up the A. Some are not repentant right off the bat....

I believe in the MB principles & I want to follow everything I can even AFTER recovery. My WS is showing "signs" of the end of the A & I don't want to FORCE these principle on him.(although I won't let him come home until he meets MB's conditions.....I guess that is forcing, huh? but he does have a choice....meet my conditions or I do not want to reconcile) Did it take a while for your WS to accept MB principles? & do you think your WS felt like you had a "better than thou" attitude about it?

I am thinking down the road here & want to be "humble" enough not to make my WS feel like I am "holier" b/c I was not the one who had the A.....I made mistakes in the M too.

GEEZ. I hope I am coming across and making sense here.

Thanks!

Kim

You might want to get a copy of Harley's book *Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders*. Many WS turn out to fit the profile of a Freeloader in the relationship, while any BS who stays is usually a Buyer.

Freeloaders will fight MB principles hard, especially POJA. They hate that one worse than anything. My WH was certainly that way, though recently (after I got a full-time job, starting looking at apartments and stopped calling him when he was out of town) he has offered to start using it.

It's a good book.
Mulan

Kim, you can't force them to accept or practice MB principles, but you can make agreement to the Four Rules of Protection a condition of reconciliation. Because without that, there will be recovery. [I know you know that and it is not what you are asking]

But if you are talking about general things like actively working to meet your needs and using POJA, then no, you don't have to have his agreement. It is also a lovebuster to EDUCATE your spouse and that does come across as "holier-than-thou."

In my marriage, I told my H what my needs are and while he is not an enthusiastic supporter of MB [not interested] he does meet my needs because I meet his. Others have introduced their spouses to MB by leaving books lying around, via counseling, etc.

I think you are right to be concerned about coming across as holier than thou, but it can be worked around if you are careful.

WOW, I just got this book in the mail yesterday and reading your post makes me more eager to read it!

Kim,

Forcing a fogged out WS to accept MB principles is perhaps a bit too much to ask. Just the terms alone, like "love bank" and "love busters" annoy the crap out of them. They sound so silly and juvenile to them. Even BS's have a tough time believing in the MB principles, as a whole, at the beginning.

Not to be discouraged. Perhaps you can go about this a different way. You need only plant the MB seeds and get your husband to agree to keep an open mind. For example, you could get HNHN on CD (even if you have the book, get the CD so you can listen together and interact). Make listening together a condition of reconciliation or the SOLE initial requirement before you give your full list of the other requirments (kind of a review list of the CD).

Another idea may be to get him to agree to start a thread on MB and he must agree to post 100 times. He doesn't have to buy MB principles...just post. He can even post 100 times how ridiculous it all is if he wants. Point being once he's here and discussing the issues and MB, he'll hopefully get hooked, learn to swim with the stream, and the MB seeds you have planted will slowly be processed as he slowly clear the fog.

Good Luck,
Mr. Wondering

p.s.- You are so far ahead of your WS with MB principles you really need to be careful you don't push the concepts to hard. Hopefully, demonstrating the benefits by your actions as you apply the principles to YOUR behavior will speak for itself, to a degree, and you let him discover the MB truths himself as it relates to his behavior. I can remember last spring taking Mrs. Wondering's side when she complained about the cult-like atmosphere here or how silly the terms were. It is important to take their side. Some examples of things I would just say:

1. "Yeah, it is kind of cult-like in there";
2. "I used to think the same thing too";
3. "I know the terms our dorky, but can you come up with a better term (then joke around to come up with some)"
4. "It's not a perfect plan, which concepts do you like or dislike" (get them talking about MB, even though they don't buy it yet)
5. "I know it would be so easy to pick and choose the concepts we like; but even Harley says it's a NARROW path, let's stick to the path so we don't get lost along the way"

Just don't argue principles with him, demonstrate them or get him to argue with us about them but not you...you're on his team.

Thanks Mulan & MelodyLane....I'll try to find that book locally & if not I will order it.

MelodyLane - I definitely don't want to LB by trying to "educate" WH. I'll have to be careful not to push it that way. Meeting each other's emotional needs is importanat & I believe a good start.(besides adhering to the four rules of protection.)

Kim

Awesome post, MrW!

Thanks Mr. Wondering - I am just thinking ahead. It's the planner in me. We aren't even to the point of talking to each other yet.....we have a session with SH on Tuesday & I'm still dark in Plan B.

Those are excellent suggestions for me to be thinking about & I will be sure to not talk the MB "lingo" with him right away. I will take it SLOW & hope that ONE DAY he will come here and post.

Thanks!!!!!

Kim

Can't wait to hammer him, er, I mean meet him.

Good luck, Kim

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

we can't wait! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Here's where all that patience needs to come in. Remember right now he is still a WS...c/b morphing into an Xws but that's still something to confirm. Your H c/b pushing his way out of the cocoon the WS has entrapped him in....so be patient. The WS will NOT want MB info....that will kill the WS and he knows it. Your H probably wants help but may be too weak or entrapped to be able to to it....for now.

So pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. Give the info then walk away. In some cases, the WS takes longer to reach out to this info and when he does he certainly doesn't want you to know he is even slightly interested. Mine hated MB but left me alone since it was part of my therapy. I left the books lying around and eventually he peaked at it. In my case, I also loaned out my copies so he didn't have long to view them. Still he would check out the website every so often.

LOL!!! He even thinks people call out to me for help. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> He was saying that when I was in my depths of depair, posting feverishly in an effort to keep my sanity. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Yea, well.....now I maybe of more help than I was then but as you can see, his mind was skewed a bit. Me learning by reading the MB books and posting here was part of my therapy plan. I interwove it so that when he tried to pry me away from MB, I told him he was then obligating himself to come up with a better plan to replace it with.

Therein lies a valuable key.....if he grumbles, don't argue just challenge him to find a better solution and if he does, go for it.....if he can't stand your ground and watch him back down. That w/b the WS in him grumbling and you don't want to give into a WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Eventually my now H has some respect for MB. He even tried to use some of their principals on others and has told some that 'his wife posts on MB as Orchid'. LOL!!! That's the KISA in him trying to help others..... Yea, he knows I tell our stories and it doesn't make him look real good since was the WS but that's a part of his life he must admit to and move forward. I think we have finally gotten him over the hump of him accepting his decisions, outcomes and effects and now he is making strides to improve his life NOT just grumble about it. That's progress.

The level of achievement in our family is now higher than before. No going backwards. That's the goal that w/b good for you to reach and you must give the WS time to catch up. That's where the need for patience comes in.

Got it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All the best.
L.

Hi Orchid!!

Thanks for your post -



Yep. Patience and more patience and more patience......I have definitely learned how to be extremely patient through out all of this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Take Care!!

Kim