Thanks so much, Melody. I wondered if maybe it was something I hadn't read. I have, but I pick up something almost every time I re-read and it was helpful.

Hope you're doing well.

Thanks much, frozen. I just love that article, he puts it so succinctly. Hope things are going well for you too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

D-day was Feb 27. Yes, it's fairly fresh. I found out because I got his number from her e-mail and called him. Why do I believe him. Because he hasn't talked to her since, and he feels guilty in the sense that he thought that she was in the middle of the divorce and I had full knowledge of it. I was off fighting the war when this happened (Air Force Pilot). Had no clue that things were this bad. I knew she had issues she wanted to talk about when I got home. I have listened to her and heard what she's had to say about what led her down this path. I'm ready to address all of them. The details of this, however, are something I feel I need to know. Yes, it festers when I don't know. I imagine the worst in my head. I wish I could just let it die. I do believe that if she simply gave me the full, ugly details, I could let it go and not wonder any more.

She says she's tired of talking and of dealing with me and my mood swings. She has no empathy regarding the pain I'm in regarding what she did. She says I'm making this all about myself. That I really messed things up by talking to our friends, her friends, her family, and my family about it. She's mad I couldn't keep this problem between us.

I know I messed some things up as a husband. I could have been more romantic, I could have played less video games and spent more time with her and the kids, I could have learned to do the things she enjoys doing. I should have shut my mother out of our marriage much sooner since she was a destructive presence. I should have had more confidence in her abilities as a mother to handle the stress of the kids while I was gone. I acknowledge all of those things. None justify her going outside of our marriage and doing what she did.

He has been willing to share the details while she hasn't. I would rather hear them from her.

The best thing I can do is the 180. I'm smothering her right now in trying to get answers and I might get more if I back off. It's so hard, though, since I want to be with her every waking moment and eagerly await the day she looks at me and tells me she's ready to save our marraiage.

Papa-

I am a FWW (and current BS). Though you may have not been meeting some of her most important needs, remember her A is her responsibility. She needs to dig beyond ENs and understand what weakness in her led her to do this. This is a reflection on her, not you. She needs to take ownership of what she has done.

It is a process. Right now, she probably is still in the fog and cannot process what she has done. It happened to me in stages. With each stage, it was more and more painful to see myself for what I was and what I did. I am concerned though that she is not showing any signs of remorse. I know Dr. Harley states in SAA that this is not uncommon. But, if she is not really remorseful, then what is to prevent her from doing it again?

If you have any questions I can answer, let me know.
I believe there is a link on the Joseph's letter website that shows that the Ms where all the details about the A are shared, are the ones that were most likely to make it. I can tell you the reason she is fearful of telling you though---or atleast why I was. I did not want to hurt my H more and was scared he would leave me.

Take care, this is a really tough time.

Improving,

I'm trying to understand my wife. She doesn't show remorse in the sense that I would want her to. She acknowledges that she hurt me, states that it was wrong. I know she's not in contact with this person anymore and she considers it a one time fluke mistake. She claims that her mind was made up at the time that I would get papers as soon as I got home.

Right now she says I'm not showing her any incentives for her to stay. Says I'm stifling her and she's very mad about the fact that I've talked to a lot of people about this, including some of my co-workers, family, and mutual friends. She says that I need to act like myself again and to quit smothering her by looking for affection or reassurance. Yes, she's deep, deep in the fog. I feel that the 180 would really help, but it is so hard to implement. I want to so badly but I lover her so much that it is very difficult for me to withdraw from her and give her space.

I don't believe she'll do it again. Not in the near future. Circumstances wouldn't let her. Down the road, however, I'm sure it could happen again if we don't address the problems in our marriage and I don't fix the things that she has problems with.

Please tell me more about the perspective of a FWW. I'm trying to understand her right now and she doesn't want to talk about anything. Says I drive her nuts talking about things. Please help.

She may not be in contact with this OM but she appears to still be having an EA in her own mind and heart. That makes her still a WS and dangerous to you and your family.

Btw, when she says U are not showing her any incentive? That's pure WS babble. Don't take that kind of talk. Tell her she has to earn back her right t/b part of your family. You and your family don't have to prove anything to her, it's the other way around. Don't grovel to a WS mindset. They will try to make it all your fault in a big or little way. It is in their WS genes. Wicked alien beings willing to hurt the very ones the spouses of the bodies they are inhabiting are suppose to love and protect.

L.

That approach won't work with my wife. She'll be out the door if I took that approach. Yes, I need to show her that the things that made her drift away are things I'm willing to work on. I'm not taking any blame for the cheating. Nothing justifies it. She could have waited till I came home to talk to me instead of going outside of our marriage to get the attention she wanted. She's not having an EA because she only met this person once.

You're right, I shouldn't grovel. No one can respect that. But I have to find a way of letting her know that I'm willing to address the issues that caused her to drift.

The one thing the WS counts on is keeping the BS scared and in the WS' control. You think your Ws will flee....she might. That's the one you want to flee....the WS....the one you want back is your W. Is it a risk? Yes it is....right now it is all a risk. Take your pick. The other way the WS has the upper hand so where's her incentive to change?

Get your ducks in order because some WSW's try to make the BSH look abusive and before you know it you are charged with battery and other domestic violence charges all because she is trying to make herself look right even though she is in the wrong.....sad part is sometimes the law will back up a liar just because she is a woman.

L.

Definately not true of my wife. She has stated that if it came to divorce she isn't looking to take me to the cleaners and wouldn't deny me my children. It would be very unlikely of her to try and pull something like this. I wish she would read this site and talk to other WS. She won't, though, and is resistant to reading anything really. It's all in my court to figure out and it's tough.

Time will tell. I wish you well in your journey. If she isn't willing to work with your or meet you 1/2 way....it will be hard. Her own actions will wear you out.

L.

Reading your post, and having a few more years experience on me, have made me realise alot of things that ive been fighting.
I have been seperated for 3 odd years. 10 years ago, I had an affair.
We were married for 13 years, and eventually split.
This forum has made me realise that I was the WS in a complete fog. I cheated, and lied, and, although, my then husband wasnt the best of men, didnt meet my ENs which i see in hindsight was what caused the A, it probably caused the eventual destruction of my marriage. Even though, during our seperation, my H also saw and had relations with other women that he wouldnt admit the whole details, but i heard from many others, I believe i was the first to start the ball rolling. You see, I lied. Even though my then H knew about the affair, because i did come clean to an extent, and I tried to be honest during our seperation, I made the details smaller, covered it for years, thinking that no good would come of the truth. For 7 years I tried my hardest to prove my love to him. Every 6 months we would go through this thing where he would want details - he knew i wasnt telling him everything. I never probed him about what happened with the women he was with during our seperation, as I had instigated it. Even though in every thought word and deed, i was then a faithful wife, and I tried so hard for many many years to make him trust me again, and all was fine when i had no life, didnt go out, made no attempt at being in any way individual. The year before we split, we had a big row and i told him the truth, it wasnt as bad as he imagined. In my mind, 7 years on, it was gone, i still carried my guilt, but it was so far in the distant past. In his mind it was still raw. He felt he didnt know everything (and what he didnt know was 3 more times of stupidly bad fumbling sex that meant nothing compared to our sex life) 6 months after my total revelation (7.5 years later) and i felt that i couldnt go on being punished, or punishing myself for what happened. After seven years and many things in which he was totally unsupportive of me (one was losing a career in a unjustified way) I rebelled, and realised it was time to take my life back and that i could no longer live like a WS constantly trying to prove myself. This caused our downfall. My return to a normal life was too much for him to bear and he became untrusting of everything i did. 7 years on, and i was still being punished. The interrogation every time i went out started again. After 6 months i couldnt stand it anymore, i realised our marriage would never recover - soon after I met someone else, a friend, but i was accussed over and over again of more - my phone calls monitered by a scanner and in other ways. At this point nothing untoward was happening, but it made me feel trapped and I did try very hard at this point to recover our marriage and talk and do everything possible to meet his ENs. It didnt work - we seperated and the friend i had became more than a friend. I was very open about this as i wanted no deceipt. But i think it just goes to show how you can push someone away by constantly monitering them.
I totally understand your need for details. But you must remember that you could well make them out to be more important to the person you love, than they actually are.
This episode is totally unimportant to me, and the man involved I now cannot understand what the ****** i ever saw in him. The only person that was important to me after this event was my H - but i could never seem to make up for it, no matter what i did.
We have now been apart for 3 years. I do not regret leaving him, as my life had become so badly stifled, and i could no longer be an individual in any sense without him feeling i was untrustworthy. I only hope that your future holds better things.
All of us WS are not always so blinded by what we do and our selfish ways that we cant be remorseful and guilty and even years on, we know what we have done in our younger days. It is true forgiveness that can repair a marriage.
Good luck