At least there would be some logic to it if it were the youngest child going to college. I just found out that a friend's husband left just as her child was going to college, and to make matters a thousand times worse, shortly afterwards she was diagnosed with cancer. My H left right after our oldest went to college, and told her that he had waited until the kids were grown (our youngest was 3 at the time).

I know in a lot of cases it is depression prompted by the realization that their kids are growing up. Or it could be that they don't feel like paying for college, and even in states where the NCP is required to contribute, they know how easy it is to get out of it. I will never be able to understand how men can live with themselves - stealing their wives "good" years, waiting until she is middle-aged, perhaps until she is old enough that the illnesses of middle and old age are beginning to hit, certainly until she is old enough that if she wanted to remarry there would be few eligible men around, in many cases leaving her destitute with no or outdated career skills, and typically with more children to raise and put through college. Except for during pregnancy or right after childbirth, there really is no crueler time to leave.

In my state, and I presume in many others, divorce will not be granted during pregnancy. I think it would be a good idea to refuse to grant divorce while children are between, say, 17 and 22. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that many men leave specifically because they don't want to be saddled with college costs. The counselor actually got my husband to admit that he wanted the kids to go to nothing more expensive than a community college - because he didn't want to mortgage his (he never finished the sentence - I assume he was going to say future, or retirement).

If men don't want to spend money on their chilren, why the h*** do they have them? Why did my H say he would have liked to have had more than the six we had, if we could have afforded to? How can someone whose parents put them through college act like it is an imposition to do the same for their own children? How can you not want your children to have a better life than you, or even a life that is comparable?

Nelly...

First, we disagree that children are owed a college education...they are not. However, I would hope parents would WANT to do this for their children.

Second, men leave at this time because at some time in the distant past, this decision was already made. They stayed as long as they did because they wanted to fulfill an obligation to their children. They feel no obligation to their wife at this point.

The other choice that many men don't find acceptable is to terminate the marriage at the point they decide they want out...say, when the kids are young.

Many men feel the same way that you do...they feel tricked out of their prime years. They feel like their marriage has sucked the life out of them. They leave when the kids are grown because they are driven by a sense of urgency to enjoy the life they have left. They saw their marriage as prison. I sometimes feel like I gave up the bigger piece of my life for a marriage that never had a chance to be good.

Very often, I find my self wishing I had left for my OW instead of staying and trying to make things work.

As it is, my STBXW strung me along for another 5 years before she cut me loose. I tried really hard to recover our marriage because I KNEW I wanted to look forward to being a couple after the kids were gone.

If a man has no hope of a great marriage outside of the kids, he's going to be looking to get out when their grown.

JMHO

My father (stepfather, technically) and my mother are still together. They have always "wooed" each other; they were the core of our family, and put each other's happiness first.
They knew that children grow up and move out and away. But your spouse, your mate, does not -- with hard work, dedication, and love on the part of both involved.
I agree that sometimes people (not just men) can spend their youth hoping that, "If they can just get to where the kids are grown, things will get better." Then they wake up one morning and the kids ARE mostly grown, and they realize that things won't get better because they've drifted apart from their spouse. (What's sad is that their spouse may also be feeling like this, and they could have both avoided it by making their marriage and personal development a priority years before.)
It's sad.

This topic made me want to upchuck. They leave because they are spoiled, self-centered brats. Oh woe is me.

I spent 22 years coddling, helping, working with and supporting my husband. Looking back on it...he didn't give that back. Our life was ALWAYS about HIM. The great pilot...

The reason they leave is for purely selfish reasons...and unfortunately...I am only now-5 years after he has left-- been able to completely understand exactly what kind of individual he is.

He was capable of leaving his family--finacially and emotionally and physically. He married a complete airhead flight attendent---who is so uneducated--it is not funny!!

WHY...for sexual excitement...the newness of a new relationship...and because he COULD. Society doesn't care anymore....there is NO responsibility. It is whatever feels good at the time. No COMMITMENT...NO CONCERN for how those decisions affect your own family. The more I listen to the families breaking up around me, and the kids I deal with at school; the more I have come to the realization that people who are capable of doing this are truely self-centered. If they had spent half of their time lavishing their family with the type of attention they put on the OP---there would be no problem with love. How sad....

I think that people that allow themselves to desert their families are weak in character. That is the bottom line.

LowOrbit & Bellemere - Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - I was asking why men leave when the OLDEST child goes to college - not the youngest. In many cases the rest of the children are not mostly grown - I know lots of families where the difference in age between youngest and oldest is at least 6-8 years. In my case, our youngest was only a toddler when my H's affair started. And after he left, he specifically told me that as of 6 months before that, he had no plans to leave - so this was NOT a decision made in the distant past.

Movinon,

I think you are right about their extreme selfishness. In most cases I have seen, not only do they leave the marriage, they pretty much abandon the children as well. If it were just about the marriage, men would continue to remain involved with their children, and in most cases when they leave, they quickly disengage from them. My kids' father recently went almost 4 weeks without contacting the kids. When one was away at college, he went almost the entire year without responding to the child's email. Everything is always about how unfairly THEY are treated. It is supposedly the kids' responsibility to maintain the relationship, and if they don't shoulder the entire burden, then the kids don't love him enough and why should he bother having anything to do with them.

Not all men leave. Some love their wives, their families very deeply. Some of us can look at young women and only think about how beautiful our wives our in our eyes. Some of us never have any desire to leave.

The ones that do leave, are selfish.

Ya know...I hear that old SELFISH epithet tossed around alot here.

I don't think people stop and think about it.

Here's the skinny: WE ARE ALL SELFISH!!!!!

Everything we do, we do because we get something from it...some kind of emotional payoff. When we stop getting that, we stop behaving in that way.

Altruism and "unselfish sacrifice" are myths.

We are committed to our children, seemingly unconditionally, because they are our genetic progeny...we are wired that way for the most part.

We commit to our a spouse and an ideal of marriage at some point. Sometime people only remain committed because there is an emotional payoff in feeling like you've "done the right thing".

It does NO ONE any good to think that ANYONE, including a spouse, is doing something out the goodness of their heart. because of this, relationships cannot be taken for granted.

This is the WHOLE premise behind the MB principles - people are selfish and require love bank deposits to remain in love.

The sooner we stop being pollyannaish about and accept that fact, the sooner we can get to the real business of building a real world relationship.

And, yes, I'll be the first to admit - I'M SELFISH. And if everyone else thinks about it...they are too.

I will NEVER again remain in dysfunctional relationship for the sake of "personal commitment". I WILL bust my a$$ to ensure that relationship stays healthy.

This is what breaks down when they leave. If men actually left because of some marriage-related issue, there would be no logical reason for this commitment to disappear - and yet it does in so many cases. I think those men who leave as soon as their oldest go off to college often do so specifically because their commitment to the children, if present in the first place, has evaporated - perhaps due to depression, mid-life crisis, or for some other reason.

Altruism is not a myth. People do behave in altruistic ways - it is almost certainly true that there is a selective advantage to this. Individuals who behave altruistically may well be more likely to attract mates and produce offspring. Certainly those who behave in blatantly selfish ways are less likely to attract mates. It is not a good idea to continually grab the last piece of cheesecake if you want to attract someone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Whether or not altruism is really "selfish" in the evolutionary sense is not an excuse for behaving selfishly. In many cases the "payoff" for altruistic behaviors is not immediate, and may often never become evident to the person. While it is clear that the alpha male hero who rushes into burning buildings to rescue people is likely to be attractive to a number of women, and should have no trouble finding a mate with whom to produce progeny, it is less obvious, but no less true, that the hard-working devoted father is more likely to have children who in turn marry and produce offspring than is the WS who deserts his children and sours them on marriage.

I know that not all men leave, that some men are committed and faithful. Unfortunately, it is impossible to predict which seemingly faithful, family-oriented men will undergo a sudden transformation. Only a few years before he left, my H told a prospective employer that his family was very important to him, and the most important aspect of a job was the flexibility to be there for his family. Now, ten years down the road, he went almost 4 weeks with absolutely no contact with the children.

Nellie2,


Your X sounds like a smuck . . . and that is regrettable. It is my experience that most men don't behave that way and you really shouldn't extrapolate your limited pool of personal acquaintances to the majority of men.

The majority of divorces are filed by women not men. In the majority of cases, men are the ones forced to leave their home. They are the ones that have their kids ripped out of their arms and are relegated to the role of part-time Dad.


For every dead-beat Dad you have a grieving father that has lost custody of his kids. That is my experience anyway.

Men leave for the same reason that women leave (more or less), they believe that they can be "happier" away from the current spouse.

If I were to divorce in would be from my wife not from my kids . . . but that is just me.

My STBX couldn't even wait that long. I thought we had a good marriage, not great, but 'comfortable'. He wanted someone more exciting, someone with a career, not a boring housewife like me.

We used to kiss and flirt and cuddle in front of the kids - they just couldn't believe it when he left. They were 100% certain that we were rock-solid.

I know he left because she was exciting, and young, and she 'understood' his career.

But what is wrong with security, with being great friends, with being 'comfortable' - with family life?

Nearly a year now, and I still don't get it really.

Alph.

The fact that the majority of divorces are filed by women does not mean that women are the ones who want the divorce - often they file because their husband has left or is unfaithful. In addition, I have often heard that the first person to file has the financial advantage.

I don't think I have ever personally met a father whose wife divorced him and forced him out of the home. The one father I know whose wife apparently instigated the divorce has the children living with him the majority of the time. I have never even heard of a mother leaving as soon as her oldest (or youngest, for that matter) goes off to college.

They don't.

And you haven't moved on, Nellie. Say what you will. But you still haven't moved on.

Isn't your beer salty enough after all these years.

Hey, that's about the time they sometimes hit their MLC. Besides, mine left when the children were 4 and 2. But, he was still 39.

To move in with their 20(+)year old OW and their OC??!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />



Many people hit their 40s when the oldest heads off to college. I do think that mid-life issues come into play. Maybe his oldest heading off to college also reminds him of the fun and freedom he used to have at that age.

I also think it's more acceptable in society's eyes for him to leave, than for a woman to leave her children. Plus, men at this age are much more likely to find other women to date than is a woman in her 40s...especially when she comes with several children.

Nellie,

You said
Saying this means you have learned NOTHING in all of the time you have been here. The boards are full of women that have done this, just as there are men that have. Selfishness is NOT A GENDER Biased situation.

And it really makes no difference if it is as the first one goes to college or the last one, or before any of them go to college. The men do NOT get out from under the financial obligations.

I know I know in your case you feel your H did and does. But, lady you are a rarity in this. Thus questions like "why do MEN do...?" really annoy me. As you can tell, I find your stance unreasonable, perhaps that is why your H has reacted as he did. I have no idea. But, I will tell you, your approach to these things are very counter productive for you. Or as Dr. Phil askes "how's that workin for you?" Not well.

Has it crossed your mind to lay it down, and get on with your life? If it has not, now would be a real good time to do so.

Oh, and for your information. Most men that leave and have nothing to do with their children do so for only a few reasons: 1. Being in contact with the kids brings them in contact with their W and that is so painful, they would rather be without the kids. 2. They are too ashamed of themselves to face the kids. 3. The W has turned the kids against them in such hateful ways it is easier for all concerned to cease contact. 4. And this is more common than you realize. If the H only gets to see them rarely due to visitation rulings by the court, the pain of seeing them go, overwhelms the need to see them.

You take your choice. Why do people leave marriage...I guess selfishness covers it, either on the part of the person that left, or the person that remained. Who knows.

If you had the answer to your very biased question, what good would it do you, or anyone else? Just curious.

God Bless,

JL

The boards are not full of women who have left as soon as their oldest started college. I can't think of any. Do you have any examples?

This question was prompted by the fact that my friend's husband left just as her child was going off to college, as I said in my first post. I suppose if I had "moved on" that was not supposed to bother me, not supposed to give me a sense of deja vu. It is obviously unacceptable to certain posters for a BS not to pretend that every thing is hunky dory, typically was rushing headlong into another relationship.

If I were to post, "Why do transmissions on late 1980's Grand Voyagers fail shortly after the warranty expires," would you have a conniption because not all transmissions failed, and sometimes transmissions on other makes and models fail as well? There is a higher than expected chance of men leaving as their first goes off to college, just as the Voyagers had a higher than expected chance of transmission failure at around 60,000 or 70,000 miles.

Why do you presume that I have not "gotten on with my life," whatever that means? Why do you care? If you don't wish to read my posts, then no one is forcing you to.

Yes, men (and women, too, if they were to leave at that time) DO get out of paying for college by leaving, in many, many cases. A number of states do not require NCP's to contribute to college; and even when they do it is fairly easy to hide income. I do not just "feel" that my husband got out of contributing - the fact that he is not contributing to college costs is an statement of fact.

heartmending,

Yes, in many cases to move in with a much younger OW (my H's OW was actually older than I, but much richer), and I think the reasons you stated are quite plausible.

Wow, JL, sounds like this touched a nerve with you. I can tell you from my experience, with acquaintances and friends, that for every one woman I know that has abandoned her children, there are 10 men.

Many men look at marriage as a package deal. When things go bad with the wife, things go bad with the kids.

And you can claim that the wife is turning the kids against their father, he is too ashamed, yada, yada, yada.

Are you reading the same boards that I am? Granted, there are a few men that have the kids and their wife has abandoned them, but the overwhelming majority of abandonees are women.

1. With all the student loans, etc., parents should not have to worry about paying for all of college. Unless you are a rich pilot.

2. After women telling us for the last 30 or 40 years that we are not needed or wanted, men are starting to react in kind.

3. Because of #2, many wives don't "care and feed" their husbands properly, don't care if he asks for better treatment, then complain when he leaves.

4. JL is correct! I've seen many women leave their husband and children to go "find themselves," or find out "what they are missing."

5. I'm tired of women saying how bad we men are when they don't even try to be a good partner to their husbands. (#3)

When I was a girl, the music director from the church ran off with the (single) minister. She had a son in senior year of high school. Does that count?

It does happen, where else do we get the "Walkaway Wife" of legend?

Believer,

You had better believe she touched a nerve... a big one. Nellie has been here for years complaining about ALL men, or MOST men, or just MEN in general. Yet, if you read the boards right now there are plenty of men here with W's out running around on them, cheating on them, and yes men raising the children women abandon.

I think your statistics about men vs. women leaving the children has NO validity given the inequity in divorce and custody laws. Men can expect AT BEST shared custody, and many just get every other weekend and perhaps one day aweek IF the W doesn't over schedule the kids in ways that prevent that. Little wonder men just give up and walk away. Oh, if you spend the time to look at ALL of the data, by percentage there are MORE deadbeat mothers than fathers. It is just the most women get the kids thus all you hear about are the "deadbeat" fathers.

It goes along with the myth that was being promogated by several activist women's groups that after a divorce men end up with more money that before the divorce. I actually got into a debate with a woman on a plane trip when for reasons I am not sure of she injected this bit of junk. I asked her if she could name one company that gave men a pay raise IF they divorced? None seemed to come to mind. So I inquired if maintaining two residence was cheaper than one. In short, it was found out later that the "statistic" used to justify that piece of propaganda were "cooked". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

In short, look how YOU responded to my statements. You don't like generalizations any better than I do. The fact is that Nellie has no data to support her claims and just a case of a friend of her's that she has extrapolated to include MEN/ALL MEN/MOST MEN.

My real problem is I do like/love/respect women, after all I have a daughter, and I have been married 30 years. What I don't like are women as victims. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Especially when THEY decide they are being victimized by "MEN", not a man, not their man, but "MEN". It annoys me greatly and that is why Nellie bothers me so. It is not that she shouldn't have gotten more and better from her exH, it is that she has taken her situation and generalized it to a complete class of victimhood. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

JL