needsfixing...

What is your story?

You made a huge mistake...you automatically linked selfishness with "evil"...I didn't do that.

Because of that, you and I aren't on the same page. We're not even in the same library.

Your anti-US rhetoric is pure BS...you might have a lot to say about marriage and relationships but there are a lot of people who aren't going to give you chance to after that...

Low

JL,

I think your own biases are clouding the real issue that triggered Nellie2's thread.

Her friends husband left her, within the same time frame her own husband left her. And it triggered those hurts in herself. Does THAT EVER HAPPEN TO YOU?? Are your old hurts EVER triggered by events that happen to your friends or people close to you?

Nellie2,

I'm sorry your old hurts were re-opened by this event. I know it makes no sense why any man or women would do something like that.

My father did the same thing to my mother, he remarried and had two more children with her. She also had "more' money than my mother did, but then my mother married him when she was 18 and pregnant with his child. Quit her job and moved with him in his career, she went on to have 3 more children with him, thats where THEIR money went to, supporting his four children and themselves. He was unhappy they were always 'broke' but then he refused to live on a budget, if he seen something he wanted he would go into debt to get it.

The OW didn't have the financial burdens of raising children, or supporting a family, it was only her, and her parents and grandparents helped to support her lifestyle. Her parents only had two children, her grandparents only had one child each, so they could afford to lavish their grandchildren with lots of things. And that was what attracted my father to her, the financial freedoms she could
provide him to buy his toys on a whim.

When they had children, what they would not buy their children their grandparents and greatgrandparents bought them, and still do.

My father did not pay child support for the 3 children still at home, he did not visit, he did not make it a point to spend time with any of us still at home.

Was it because it "hurt" him to see us, or to face my mother? Or he felt guilty for leaving? Umm, No, He didn't. He still doesn't. If it hurt him to 'see' our mother or if he felt guilty for leaving, he wouldn't have called and asked her to meet him for afternoon sex at the local hotel.

Did our mother talk bad about our father? Umm, No, not once did she EVER do that. Even though she had many reasons to do so, when we talked about what a jerk he was/is she would tell us NOT TO talk about our father that way. but you know what, each one of us made our own minds up about our father based on HIS ACTIONS, HIS LACK of Interest, HIS CHOICES and to this day we rarely see him. out of the four of us.

I spend more time with him than the others do, and even that is a rarity. The man has been truly selfish over the years, he most certainly is one of those people who believe that if you give something to someone they 'owe' you something in return.

My children do not 'like' their grandfather, not because of anything I have said, but because they see him for who he is, as a person, and they just don't like him. They don't like spending time with him or his wife, they only reason they want to spend anytime with them at all is because they love spending time with their aunt and uncle, who are their ages, one who is in college and one who is in high school.

The odd thing is, they don't like their parents either, they do not like the strings attached to things their parents buy them. The last holiday we spent together, my step mother continually berated her children for not wanting to leave the family gathering to go shopping with her, and told them, "well, I just won't BUY you such and such" and she got mad when they told her, "they don't care, they don't 'need' her to buy such and such for them."

My father is just as bad, and they see it, granted as he is getting older, and has been confronted about things he's done in the past, he has changed a little bit. A few years back one of his neighbors left his wife and two sons, the sons were just getting ready to graduate high school and leave for college, and my father made a comment about 'how can a man do that to his wife and kids?' My sister looked at him and said, "YOU did the EXACT same thing to MY MOTHER and YOUR FOUR KIDS!" He just looked at her like she was crazy, but he knew she was right, even though he doesn't want to admit it, he doesn't 'see' it that way. He sees it as HE was leaving his marriage, being trapped in a bad situation, being trapped in a marriage he didn't want.

He wasn't thinking about his children, he didn't even take us into consideration when he made his choices. He was only thinking of himself and what he wanted, and he wanted out from under all the financial obligations he helped create, and instead of trying to live within a budget and trying to work his way through it, he took the easy out and ran away from them, leaving the financial debt for my mother to deal with.

Like I said, He has changed a little bit, but not enough for any of us to want to spend a lot of time with him, and thinks we should just get over it, because it wasn't *about* us. But the reality is, it was about US, He made it about us, when he decided to marry our mother and have children with her.

So Nellie2, I certainly understand the hurt your feeling, being triggered by an event that happened to your friend, it's the same feelings of hurt that were triggered in my sister when our dad made that comment to her, it's the same hurt I feel when I look at how my own ex-husband doesn't take our children into consideration when he makes choices for his own life, as if they don't even exist.

I am new here but, I have to respond this.

I have been married almost 9 years and my marriage is full of romance and excitement. We closer and happier than we were before we got married. Of course there are dull slow periods but, they are short phases that you come out of. Those dull periods can't become the rule.


Also, My parents split up after my sister and I were a year out of high school. It was hard for my mom. She is still angry about it. I think it was for the best. He didn't leave for an OW. I just think 20 years of my Mom was all he could take. I don't hate him anymore...

TR,

Thank you for sharing your story about your father, and for understanding how my friend's experience was a trigger for me. I am sorry to hear that your father hasn't changed very much, after all these years.

Perhaps I don't choose to tell my story when people take offence so easily. My 'anti US rhetoric' as you call it is NOTHING to do with the fact that I am a BS. What have the two to do with each other? And I am not anti 'US' at all - I am anti the powermongering of your president. Which is something that I am afraid to say I share with a large percentage of the world's population - including many of your own citizens. I have several online friends who are from the US and whose loathing of the 'God's own country' mentality would make mine seem positively tepid. You clearly do not understand the fear and hatred which such power as America holds has for millions of people the world over, particularly when religious Fundamentalism is its basis.

needsfixing - as for the anti-US (or anit-powermongering)stuff, if they don't like it they are free to leave it.

As for the rest of your story, I'm sorry for you. You seem angry and hurt. That's sad. I hope you realize anger is always the SECOND emotion, and the first is the one you can deal with on your own. Once it becomes anger, it's difficult to deal with the angry emotions alone.

Why not ASK your daughters when their activities are????


What does mind reading have to do with anything? where is YOUR communication with YOUR daughters? Why is your ex-wife responsible to let you know things you could very easily talk to your daughters about??


And it's NOT about your ex-wife, it's about YOUR daughters, IF YOU want to go, then GO, if she doesn't like it, oh well.


I guess the same reason people promise those things and then ignore their spouses during the marriage, and instead of learning how to love, cherish and honor their spouses DURING their marriage, they wait till their spouse is out the door.


And did you communicate to your wife while you married to her you weren't a mind reader?





So take it upon YOURSELF to get involved in your childs life!! If you want to know whats going on in school, CALL Your childs teacher and talk to him/her and find out. If you want to know when your child's activities are--talk to YOUR child or talk to your child's coaches or dance instructors or whoever is in charge of the activity. Why do you want to rely on your ex-spouse to keep you informed of your child's activities??

I think that is the biggest issue I have with some parents after divorces, they complain their spouses aren't keeping them informed, yet they refuse to take responsibility for finding out themselves!!

If my kids want to be in activities, they let me know, and I take them, is it MY responsibility to inform their dad?? Nope, we are divorced, if he wants to know what they are doing HE CAN ASK THEM!!!

It is not my responsiblity to be in charge of my ex-h's relationship with our kids. What kind of relationship he builds with our kids, is HIS responsibility not mine. I'm NOT his parent, and it's not up to me to tell him what he should be doing to maintain and grow a relationship with our kids.

Nellie2,

I think as my dad ages and continues to watch his own parents as they get older, he'll change a little more.

Even with all he did, I don't hate him, but I do hurt for him. I hurt that he didn't have a good relationship with his dad, I hurt that I don't have a good relationship with him.

No matter how much I reach out, I know we will never have the relationship we could have had. But I also know, I can not carry a relationship for two people.

He has to put some effort into it in order for it grow, just as with ANY relationship, it takes two people to make it work. I've just gotten to the point I no longer 'need' a relationship with him, the way I did when I was younger, but it would be nice to have a better relationship than what we have.

I also no longer feel the pressure of 'owing' him anything, even when he tries to manipulate things in that way, I no longer give into the manipulation. I stand my ground and he can accept my boundaries or not, it's his choice. If he chooses not to, it's everyones loss, if he chooses to, it's everyones gain--He just hasn't learned that yet, I can always hope that one day he will.

Well DD is 7, so she doesn't yet keep a date book. She's not too good at calling, and doesn't always return calls when I leave messages. She is a live in the moment kinda girl, and I have a scheduled life. So if DD thinks of something, it is usually the day of. Sometimes I can change my schedule, sometimes it's impossible, but wouldn't have when the event was announced. I do get some e-mail from her teacher, but not always. Step daughter wants nothing to do with me. She is 16 and dating, so what good is a step dad now.

Because DD is 7 and we are supposed to cooperate. Because the divorce decree says we are both to keep the other parent informed.

But if XW won't even answer the phone, how can I stay informed?

So I can ask, but a 7yo girl doesn't keep close ties on a schedule and XW is uncooperative.

I agree. Of course XW has said if I show up at some events, she will just pull DD out of them.


Well, I supposed if I never asked her what she wanted, if anything was wrong, etc, I would feel convicted by your remark.

I did ask my now ex-wife how she recieved love, what was romance to her. Her answer was, "If you loved me, you would know what to do." and of course, "Nothing" was a common answer too.
Yes, see above.

I can talk to the teacher because I know who that is. I don't even know who or where she takes dance, etc.

I have taken the steps I can take.

Well, that's good advice for a near teen or teen child. However, my daughter was turning 5 years old as XW moved out. So I'm not sure your advice fits all situations.

But if you are co-parenting, it IS your responsibility to keep the other parent informed. Just because you terminated the romantic relationship does not mean you terminated the parental relationshp.

Divorce does not end my role and responsibility as a parent. It is ALWAYS the job of parents to keep the other parent informed regarding his/her children. Unless there is some sort of restraining order or the child is being kept away from the non-custodial parent out of fear.

If I ask, which I frequently do, it is my XW's responsibility to inform me of what non-family activities she has signed our daughter up for.

When I signed DD up for soccer skills, I let XW know, so she could attend if she wanted.

I'm sorry, I disagree that divorce ends a parents responsibility to keep the other, interested parent informed of a childs progress and activities.

His relationship is NOT your responsibility, but freely offering information about what your children are doing IS your responsibility.

If he is asking what the kids are doing, then you are obligated to give clear answers with details about the children and their activities.

Divorce doesn't end the parenting relationship.

That isn't your ex-wife's fault that your daughter is a live in the moment type person. And if you can't reschedule your plans it's not her fault. So why blame her?

Have you considered buying your daughter a calender? Teach her how to write out the things she does know about on it? Even homework assignments? You could even write your own known scheduled events on it, that way your daughter knows more about your schedule as well and feels more an active part of your life.

Have you ever taken her to your job so that she knows where you work and seen pictures of her on your desk? Has she met people you work with, so she feels like a part of your daily life and not an every other weekend thought? Have you scheduled a time when you could call her each day? If you know her bedtime is at 8:00 why not call her at 7:30? You could discuss it with her and try to make it a standing date.

How often do you make a lunch date with your daughter at school? You could pick up McDonalds or something once or twice a week and make it a scheduled calender event every week, that you go have lunch with your daughter at school. If someone else wants to schedule an appointment with you that day and time, you let them know you already have an appointment, just like you would any other business associate. Your the one who needs to make it a priority.


Think outside the box, if your ex-wife isn't co-parenting, if you had a scheduled lunch with your daughter once or twice a week you could talk about the plans she has after school that week, she should know whether or not she has a scheduled event, because it's something she would be looking forward to or not. Even when my kids were 7 years old, they knew if they had plans on a given day. They knew if their friends were having a birthday party they were invited to, or if they were going to dance lessons or ball practice.



Then who would be the bad guy in your daughters eyes? What excuse do you think your ex-wife would give for pulling her out of something she enjoyed doing? "daddy wanted to come watch you and I didn't want him there!!"


This doesn't show how you explained to her you weren't a mind reader and should just know what she needed. It does imply that you accepted her answers without explaining to her that even though you love her, you aren't her, and can't read her mind, so you don't just know what she wants and needs from you to feel loved.


So ask her who her dance teacher or coach is, I'm sure she knows that much.


My son was in kindergarden when his dad moved out, my step-son is that age now, my step-son knows what the name of his t-ball team is and his coaches name, he also knows whether or not he has a game on a given day.


Actually, no it doesn't, unless it's an emergency situation,
it's not my responsibility to make sure he builds a relationship with our kids. He's an adult and very capable of asking them about whats going on in their lives himself.

It's HIS learning to take responsibility for the kind of relationship he desires with our kids, and I have no control over whether or not HE takes the time to talk to them about what is going on in their lives or not. If he desires a closer relationship, HE will ask them whats going on in their lives. Just like he would someone he is dating, or his sisters or his brother, or whoever else he desires to have a close relationship with, it's about getting to know the person by asking them questions about themselves.


your right, it doesn't end your role or responsibility as a parent, but what does it mean to you to be an active parent in your childs life?

Are you always going to depend on your ex-wife to tell you about things going on in your childs life? Or are you going to learn to talk to your daughter yourself? Just because she's 7, doesn't mean she doesn't know about somethings going on in her own life.


Again, think outside the box and ASK YOUR DAUGHTER what activities she's got going on, it will show your daughter you are interested in her life.


And that's great, I was told by my childrens counselor to let them tell their dad what they were doing, to help teach them to build their own relationship with their dad apart from me. And it's worked out great these past 6 years, he's learned to ask them whats going on in their lives if he wants to know.


Because I stepped out of the way years ago, he's getting that information from the kids now as they grow into teenagers. They have learned to call him and let him know what's going on and he's learned to ASK them, in many ways it's helped their relationship, it's not what I would deem the 'best', but it's theirs apart from me, just as my relationship with our kids is mine apart from his.


If he asked I let him know, not out of obligation but out of common decency, of not ignoring the questions. But just as I'm encouraging you now, I encouraged HIM then, to ask the kids themselves what their activities were.

Long term effects have been a blessing, with a lot less stress and anger between he and I. And if he has any complaints about his relationship with our kids, that's on him not me, because it's not been my place to carry his relationship with them, that's been his.

TR,

These are all really great ideas and many I've implemented. I've had breakfast and lunch at school with DD. I can only do that two weeks out of every four since I'm doing an on-site gig for the other two weeks each month. I get to the school for lunch two to four times each month.

She's seen my office, I work from home, work from my car, and travel to many customer data centers. It's not practical to take her to customer sites. However, I've taken her to the "corporate office" on the weekend. But for the most part, I work from home or my car and go where my pager takes me.

I've encouraged her to e-mail me. I've asked her to inform me and when she pulls the day-of stuff, when I can't go, my response has always been, "DD, if would have known about this sooner, I could have scheduled a 1/2 day off to attend. Please let me know as soon as you find out about these things."

Sometimes I hear about them, and sometimes I don't.

I think the calendar is a good idea, we can shop for one and I'll show her how to enter items into the calendar and encourage her to keep it in her school backpack.

I have tried to set up a fixed time to call. That DOES require cooperation from ex-wife as DD doesn't have her own phone. So far, I've not gotten that cooperation. I've even considered getting DD her own cell phone. They have special phones that can only call a few numbers for kids.

I'm not sure she would keep it charged, but in a couple of years, when she turns 10, I'll probably go with that approach.

I've tried to encourage e-mail as well. DD is really advanced with regard to reading and writing. She is in first grade and is reading the Lemony Snicket books and the Chronicals of Narnia. Her writing is on-par with her reading skills.

I disagree with you regarding the keeping the other spouse informed, but I agree with and had already adapted many of your ideas into my life.

TR,

I didn't mean to dismiss the mind-reader stuff. It's well travelled ground here on MB.

Years before XW had her affair, I asked for time each day where we could connect, talk about what was happening in each others life. I explained that I loved her, but didn't always know HOW she wanted me to love her. I asked for her to DEMONSTRATE how she wanted me to love her, that I didn't live in her head or her heart, so she would have to show me the way.

It was the same answer, if you loved me, you would know what to do.

Then there was the, I want you to spend more time with me, instead of going directly to the computer when you get home. So I would go to her first when I came home, (like I did anyway) and she couldn't pull herself from the soap operas.

Sorry, I guess I couldn't get over the resentment at the inconsistency. I did what she asked for and it wasn't what she really wanted.

Sorry, it just bugs me to hear three years after to try all of these things like I haven't tried them.

Oh, and the calendar. I asked my ex-wife to put events on a calendar so I could make sure work events and other activities were not scheduled on know events such as SD's soccer games, family parties, etc.

I don't really expect ex-wife to give me a schedule now, but the mind reading comments began then when on some day she would say come on, we are going to her parents for some event. I was supposed to just know about these things.

Sorry, this strikes a nerve with me.

It sounds like she just wanted you to sit with her and watch soaps with her, having you present there, even if you weren't talking and soforth, but being part of her life, even if it meant to sit there and watch a soap.

My husband knows I don't care for racing, but he likes knowing I'm sitting there next to him on occassion while HE watches it, my presence shows him I love him. It shows him I'm interested in being with him, even if I think it's boring. And there are times he does things I like, that he doesn't particulary like, just because he wants to be with me.





So when you have time with your daughter, the two of you sit down together and write them down, she could even call her mom while she is with you and ask her mom if there is anything she isn't sure about.


Was it that you were supposed to mind read, or more you were supposed to have 'over heard' conversations while she discussed those things with other people??

I know there are times when I'm on the phone making plans and my husband is standing right there, and I 'assume' he is listening to my end of the conversation concerning the plans
being made. So, Is it possible, that because you were home or standing there when she made the plans that she assumed you heard her make them?

She had an odd way of showing it. If I would sit down, she would just leave the room.


I think that's great. However, I think you are reading into things in my situation. Things that are/were not there.

Very true.

Not really. It was odd, I have a really good memory. Seldom do I forget things. If I do, it's due to overload, too much information.

XW would start talking about some movie she said we saw. On more than one occassion, I didn't actually see the movie. She would argue with me that I saw it, with her no less.

So perhaps she thought she told me, but didn't. Just like she thought I was at he movie, but I wasn't.

Perhaps her affairs went back further than I thought, and she was telling OM these things, seeing movies with him, and then thinking she told me.

I really don't know.

All I know is that we're divorce, she's been seeing OM for close to three years now, and the MB stuff, even working with Steve Harley didn't seem to work, at least not for me.

I jumped into this late, but I've asked the teachers to give us 2 copies of all papers which come home in the backpack. More times than not, my X fails to open the folder, much less take out the papers. Our school prints a calendar at the beginning of each year, and I make sure to give him a copy, and get myself a copy to avoid these issues. I've also told the school and teacher that if I get a call about DD, they should also call dad and give him the same message. It solves alot of he said/she said problems.

Parents need to take the initiative to stay in their kids lives, whether with them often or not. Things crop up, but I can't stand the look on my DD's face when she realizes her dad isn't coming to yet another school event. (She's 8 and she does tell him, and calls to confirm). She loves to dial the phone and knows she can call her dad whenever she wants. EE: Does your DD do this? My 6 YO has no desire to talk to anyone on the cell phone, much less place a call.

DD not only likes to call, but the ONLY phone number she has memorized is mine.

The home phone is forwarded to my cell, so I don't miss calls.

But you can't make a child make the call.

I can try to be as attractive to my DD as I can, but I can't force her to call or e-mail.

The calendar stuff is on-line with regards to school stuff.

But it's other things, like XW didn't bother to ask me if I wanted school pictures or to order a yearbook of DD and her classmates.

I keep in touch with the other parents too, even though I live in a different community.

So I'm doing my part, I'd just like a bit more cooperation.

Newly,

Thats a good point about the phone calls, my kids knew they could call their dad anytime they wanted to, and even knew his phone number. They didn't have to ask me for it whenever they wanted to call him, they would just pick up the phone and call him.

I can remember his calling and complaining they called and woke him up one night, at midnight and he had to get up at 3 in the morning for work. I just laughed and said, "well, there was no sense in MY being the only one awake at that hour when they wanted to talk to him, and he SAID they could call him at ANY TIME they wanted to call and talk to him." They wanted to talk to him, so they called him. During spring break and weekends, they still call him late at night like that if they are awake, and he still gets mad, but oh well, it's part of parenting.

EE, does your daughter have your phone number? Does she know how to dial it, so that she can call you when she wants to talk to you? Even if it's at midnight?

See above.

I accustomed to being called at crazy hours. I'm on-call one week out of every four, so midnight calls are par for the course.

She knows how to call me. But I can practice that next time I have her on 4/11. I'm on call this week <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

T

My Ex and I have 50/50 joint custody. I have always informed the teachers that they need to make 2 copies of everything, one for me and one for EX. Teachers usually send home Mondays folders every week, which is the day they go to EX. After a month and no papers ever got signed and returned, teacher started to send them home on Wednesdays the day they come to my house.

When I get an email from soccer coaches along with refreshment, practice and game schedule, I automatically forward it to EX. You be surprise how many phone calls I get from EX asking about practices and games. I often have to resend email 3 or more times.

Youngest daughter is on gymnastic team, I had the gym set up 2 folders, one for me and one for EX. All the schedules and directions are in the folder for each meet. Yet some how EX will call and ask for directions and then blame me for getting him lost or for with holding meet info. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I do feel like I waste my time and energy keeping EX inform yet he doesn't care. But I will continue to do so for my children's sake.

We all continue to do it for the kids sake.

EE, one thing I've been wanting to do for a safety measure is to make a bead bracelet with my cell phone number on it.
Imagine if you are out with your child, and they get lost.
If they are wearing your cell phone number and there is an emergency or they get separated, the authorities can call and get someone immediately.
And little girls love bracelets or necklaces. There are places to make bead bracelets so it could be an activity you share. (be warned: you could end up with a beaded keychain).