I haven't spoken to him for a month. He calls to speak to the kids, I let them pick up, then hang up when they're done. He has sent me a few business emails, and I have responded as briefly as possible.

He just send me a totally cold email saying things like "I guess it makes sense for me to establish my own relationship with DD's teacher given how little communication there has been, and apparently will be, between us."

I don't get it. He wants me to talk to him to give him chatty, cheery updates on the kids? I used to do that. It was called marriage. And now he's mad that I won't be a friendly, chatty coparent?? Is this par for the course for Plan B? I let him talk to the kids, I answer any direct questions in email, what more does he want? I'm sure not feeling the love, and I really don't see how he's going to break down and come back to me from this.

Yes, it is making him mad. I say stick with it.. Do not give in hoopsie. If he decides to come back, you will be a much stronger person to deal with whatever it is you two will be going thru. If he does not, you have prepared yourself for life without your H.

I wish it would have been done this way for me and it was not.

Good Luck

And anybody have any ideas how to respond? I think he's mad that I'm not doing what he wants, when he wants it. Hello, welcome to the consequences of your actions. If he wants to talk to DD's teacher, he can pick up the phone and dial. I'm not stopping him. And he's mad that I'm having my lawyer review some stuff so it's taking longer to sell the house than he wants ("I had hoped that we could get through the sale of the house without involving the lawyers," he says), and he's going into debt carrying the mortgage and my support payment. Hello, I don't care. I'll take as long as I want. Is this what WSs do in Plan B? What's next? Plan hate me for rest of his life and talk about how unreasonable I am to his OW?

Hi Hoopsie,

Ooo, I remember this, particularly where the kids are concerned. I never did an official Plan B (mostly cuz I sucked at it), but we were separated and our only communication was a one-week "kid update." He got quite upset when I reduced the communication to once a week plus one extremely short phone call (cut short by his 3-year-old daughter who didn't really feel like talking on the phone).

Yup, he's mad. You're not playing the role he's cast for you (which is, if I remember correctly, saying that it's "right" for you since it is clearly "right" for him).

Stick with it - it was moments like this ("what? you mean she's not going to happily co-parent with me and be glad that I've left my kids for my fancy new relationship with OW who clearly makes me so happy that i've lost 10 pounds and have aged 10 years in five months") that led to my own H's sloooooow movement out of the fog.

Blessings!

G

my two cents...

when it comes to the kids, communicate about anything and everything in a professional adult manner. your children need for you and him to communicate with each other for their best interests. when the kids are involved, you have to talk to him, regardless of if it hurts you or not. your kids and you will be happy you did it later on when the emotions calm down. (yes its hard)

on the other hand if he wants to know about you, the house your personal life, the weather, your finances, etc.....well, its just not his business. so cold and quiet is just hunky dory

hoopsie, Plan B means no communication whatsoever, except in case of emergencies. Even minimal contact via email gives him the fix he needs to continue his affair. It also ruins your crediblity after you have told him in a PBL not to contact you until he ends his affair.

Your Plan B is starting to work, which is evidenced by his growing anger about not getting his needs met by you. He misses you and wants you to make his pain stop. If you can just make his pain stop, then he can go back to what he wants to do: carry on his affair. S

So, don't give him what he wants, hoopsie. Stop answering his emails, if he continues to contact you, ask him if he has ended his affair and not to contact you until that happens.

If you stick with your Plan B, it will ruin his affair, so hold your ground and don't ruin your credibility by breaking your word and allowing contact. Contact only hurts your chances and harms your credibility.

It means your Plan B is working exactly as intended.

As Melody said, you should be having NO contact or communication at all with him unless it really is some kind of emergency.

Take your Plan B letter to Kinko's and run off a whole bunch of copies. When he tries to contact you, just put another copy into an envelope and mail it to him. Don't add anything, don't call him, and don't e-mail him. Just re-send the Plan B letter clearly stating your terms for re-opening the lines of communication (NC with his girlfriend, etc.)

Did he think you would just be his pal and help him destroy his family so he'd be free to go scr*w his girlfriend all day? Well, yeah, hoopsie, he did. And we told you he would, didn't we? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, yes. It's working. Expect him to get more and more angry and frustrated. Again, that just means it's working. Just re-send the letter and keep very, very dark.

It's working. Good on ya.
Mulan

Okay but (hanging head), I may have screwed up. When I moved away with the kids, I didn't give him an "official Plan B" letter.

I was upset, still addicted to him and distraught at the idea of not talking to him. I did write him a letter talking about how sorry I was for anything I had done, how much I loved him, how sad I was that his heart was closed to me, blah, blah. I never officially said: I'm not talking to you, although I *had* told him several times before I left that I would not be being a cheery coparent with him. And in fact I had a couple more sobbing conversations with him (in which he hung up on me). And then finally a lightbulb went off and I realized how much better I felt when I didn't talk to him.

He *does* know that the door is open if he wants to come back. I've made that clear enough in my hours of weeping. And there is nobody else who could be my intermediary -- nobody in my family wants anything to do with him. I have no problem tersely giving him the names of the girls' teachers and pediatricians and frankly, the terms of our separation agreement mandate that I do so.

He's saying things like "I hoped we could avoid the lawyers on this." You know what he said to me when I sobbed to him that I hoped he could end his affair? "I don't care what you want." And of course, there's the famous "this is right for me so it will be right for everybody else." Guess what, honey? Not talking to you is right for me. He's not asking anything from me that he couldn't get on his own if he wanted. He wants to know when the girls' school ends? Pick up the phone and call the school. He wants to know if DD has gotten a report card? Pick up the phone and call.

He asked when he could have the girls this summer and I told him what dates worked for us. It's none of his business what we're doing the rest of the summer (or is it? I don't know). However, I don't think this silence is making him think "gee, I love her," I think it's making him think "wow, my STBXW is so bitter and angry, why can't she coparent and communicate maturely like my girlfriend and her exH are doing?"

I apologize for this length. I really appreciate any feedback.

***Okay but (hanging head), I may have screwed up. When I moved away with the kids, I didn't give him an "official Plan B" letter.***

That's okay. Just go ahead and write one now. There are samples on this site and in the book *Surviving An Affair*, which you need to get immediately if you don't already have it.

Read all you can about Plan B, both in this site, in the forums and in *Surviving An Affair.*

Keep the letter short and to the point. Be sure to post it here before you send it to WH, so the people here can help you with it.

***However, I don't think this silence is making him think "gee, I love her,"***

Actually, it will annoy the heck out of him at first, because he is totally accustomed to your being a doormat and servant who will do whatever he wants. But eventually it WILL make him think about what he is losing, and he will never do that as long as you *and* his girlfriend are being helpful and supportive to him and *both* of you are meeting his emotional needs. He'll just let that go on forever.

***I think it's making him think "wow, my STBXW is so bitter and angry, why can't she coparent and communicate maturely like my girlfriend and her exH are doing?"***

Okay, maybe you can explain to me what is "mature" about helping your WH destroy his family and ruin his children's lives?

Appeasement never works, hoopsie. Your WH cannot love you when he has no respect for you. Sure, it will make him very happy to have another woman in his harem, especially one who will happily care for his children while he boinks his girlfriend, but is that really what you want to be?

(I didn't think so.)

As I said, your Plan B is having the desired effect. Just get the letter written and post it here.
Mulan

hoopsie.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have been following your story......

Ok, so maybe you need to send an official plan B letter (mabye shorter then usual if you feel you have already said much in the other letter).....and address the NO CONTACT until you (WH) ends the A or committ to the Marriage.

You can yet again reinforce that you care, and if he chooses to believe you are the bad guy, which he very well might and probably will <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, then that is his deal.

Reading your story, I tell you, your WH is like all the rest. I have read some of your other posts and you do have a tendency to think that he is different and that their R is different but like everyone here, I seriously doubt it.

I recall when I first met my H, we did have a couple of conversations in the evening on our first few dates when we talked for hours (like 4 or 5) but that did not last.....we did see each other every day.....but there was nothing like what you say going on. We did not talk 8 hours <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />! I cannot even believe that number!

I tell you that our relationship was great at the beginning like most and it has hit a wall and now seems to be at an end. And it was not build on lies and deceipt, noone was being hurt in the process..... So, your H's relationship as is doesn't stand a chance. Not only is it build on lies, etc, but it is build on him giving up on his wife! Do you think it will never hit him? Do you think that he will never realize that what he did was wrong?

And if by some miracle he never does see that what he did was wrong then he is not a man YOU want. You don't want a man who cheats on his wife and never admits that was wrong. That person is a lost cause and you don't want him in your life!

Most likely (with 97% <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> chance!!!!) he will get out of the fog and see just what a mess he created! He will finally see what he put his kids through, see that this will have a life long impact on his relationship with them, because they will always see him as the father who left their mom for another woman, while mom was willing to work with him and forgive!

He will realize that every relationship has problems, perfect marriage does not exist, perfect relationships do not not exist! There are problems and issues in every R because we are opening ourselves to another individual, someone who is different then we are, who has different needs.

Meeting these needs and having our own needs met and choosing to love someone for years is not easy but it is something we must choose to do IF we want a long term R. No long-term R comes without the big choice to be there and do what one can to meet needs, and choosing to love! Short term R, easy in comperason because it goes on momentum, that thrill, that adrenaline......but once the momentum is lost, it takes daily effort to keep the pengulum swinging......your H's A is not special, that momentum cannot last!!!

Sorry this got a bit long....I've been reading your story and just wanted to give you some support.....

Take care of yourself....

continue the dark plan B. I think it might be a good idea to read the post by Orchid where she talks about protecting your children when dealing with the WS.....

Best to you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

The Plan B letter is essential. How did we let you get to this point without writing one?

Okay, here's his email to me (I hope the fact that I'm posting this on a public site doesn't somehow come back to bite me in the butt but whatever. He sent it to me, I can do what I want with it, right? Names taken out).

"Thanks for getting back to me.

I had hoped that we would be able to get through the listing agreement without involving the lawyers. [Hoopsie's lawyer] never responded to the realtors' marketing plan, so can you follow up with him to find out when he will be able to get it back to you, and then you to me? The house is going to be ready to list by the end of the week, and I don't think that we should continue to carry the mortgage any longer than we have to.

Also, can you give me some more details about the girls' schedule for the summer? For instance, what and when are your plans in June that preclude me from seeing them sometime during that month? Also, can you confirm the end and start of school for DD? The school's website says she's done on May 24 and back to school on Aug. 14. Is that right?

One other thing: I am assuming that DD has had her testing for the Gifted program by this point. If so, can you let me know how that went or should I contact her teacher directly? Have you had any conversations with her teacher since DD started school there? Has DD received any progress reports/report cards? If so, can you share? It probably makes sense for me to establish a relationship with her teacher given how little communication there has been and, it appears, will be between us.

Hope all else is well,
WH

P.S. -- I am assuming, from your silence on the topic, that all house prep costs detailed below are okay with you and that you agree to split them with me. Is that a safe assumption? If not, can you articulate your issues/concerns?"

I was going to respond:
"I have not gotten any information from the school about the gifted program, and I have not gotten any progress reports/report cards. We have a family vacation scheduled for June, so July works best for us. Cheers, me."

I had already told him that I was waiting to hear from the atty re: the house, so I don't need to reiterate that. He can get the school dates from the website, I don't need to confirm them. He had asked what dates worked for us for summer visitation so I told him; he doesn't need to know the details of our vacation plans. He said he assumed from my silence about the house prep costs that I was okay with it and to tell him if I felt otherwise; I don't, so no need to address it.

So how does that sound?? I think if I add anything about "gee WH, I'm sorry things are so chilly, you know what you need to do" that only shows him that I'm responding emotionally to him. He wants business-only, I've given him business-only.

Don't keep writing to him. Write up your Plan B letter, and post it here. You need to be very dark. He can ask his questions to the school/teacher/attorney/realtor.

hoopsie.....

I agree with believer.....

GEt that Plan B letter ready, get an intermediary. You see if there is an intermediary..your WH will think twice before writing something to you.

Work on your Plan B letter today. Send that.

Daisy

Write a Plan B letter, hoopsie, and stop this contact. You are hurting your chances of ever getting him back by playing this futile cold shoulder game. It is letting him have his cake and eat it too. Tell him to only contact you in the case of an emergency and to direct all house sale issues to your attorney. Make it clear to him that he is not to contact you until he has ended his affair.

Just attach a visitation schedule and a schedule of expected payments and be done with this.

Otherwise you are just giving him the cold shoulder and DO look immature. With a Plan B letter you are stating your PURPOSE clearly; that you are taking back control of the situation and have set certain boundaries and conditions.

The whole point of Plan B is to show the WS what it will be like when divorced. Let him call the teacher himself and get their grades. That is what he would do if divorced anyway.

I would suggest sending him a PROPER Plan B letter so it all flows together in context. Attach a visitation schedule and make it clear in your PBL that he should not come in the house when he picks up/drops off the kids.

Plan B format by furnitureman: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

In other words...I am living in fantasy land because even though I am cheating on you and leaving you for another woman you should trust ME! Sheesh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

In other words, I want to spend my money on other woman not on my family.....so hurry up!

don't do him any favors. take your time if necessary



In other words, can you look at the same website as I did and tell me I am reading the dates right?

Makes no sense at all.....fog.....doesn't require a reply!


In other words, can you save me the trouble of having to contact her teacher (LIKE YOU DID!) and find all this out on my own?


In other words, since you will not play nice and make my job as a parent easier, then I guess I'll have to get to know the teacher because of you!

Fact is, that he will have to go and get to know the teacher, that is a consequance of his actions. You do not report to him.


Hoopsie, this letter is a clear sign that he does not like Plan B. He thougth things would go on as before except now he gets to share his bed with OW not you. Well, NO! He does not get to have you there as he did before.

Those days are over, unless he committs to the marriage and that is what Plan B is all about. He will not have Hoopsie without committment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Why are you selling the house, hoopsie? Were you court ordered to do so in a divorce proceeding??

He is still expecting you to do nice wifely things for him (like keeping track of the kids' schedules, dealing with their school, etc.) so he won't have to worry about this while doing far more important things like dating his girlfriend.

This is what we mean by WS living in a total fantasy world. As we said at the start, he's got the fantasy that you will still behave just like a wife to him whenever he needs you to *and* he'll still be perfectly free to date and scr*w his girlfriend.

This arrangement seems perfectly reasonable to him. Does it seem reasonable to you? Or to any other sane person you know?

Plan B will bust that fantasy big time, as it should. Be prepared to see him get mad for a while, but do NOT let him bully you with this. His anger and annoyance will just mean that your Plan B is working as intended.
Mulan

I moved with the children to my hometown in another state. WH stayed behind in our house but he is selling it because he doesn't need a big family house and because he wants to quit his job and move to the OW's state. However, his support payment to me plus the mortgage payment is starting to bite him, so he is eager to get it sold as soon as possible. He is paying me about $3500/mo and that plus the mortgage payment is taking up his whole paycheck.

I really can't go totally dark. Right before I left, we met with our attys and I signed a separation agreement talking about how "the parties will consult
with each other and provide information regarding the children's educational, emotional, physical situations blah, blah" and in fact, it mandates that we *talk* at least twice a year to go over any issues. If I tell WH to go through my mother, he'll call in the court-appointed parenting coordinator and I can't quite say "Well, Dr. Harley says I shouldn't talk to him."

I don't have to go out of my way to give him chatty, friendly updates, but he has a right to receive information directly from me. I can appreciate that Harley's philosophy says that I don't have to talk to him, but the court will frown on that behavior from a coparent and I cannot and will not jeopardize my custody. I would rather lose my marriage.