Well most of you who have been here a while know my story. I have read about everything you can on the subject and have worked very hard on rebuilding our M. I accept the responsibility that I had in creating the environment that allowed the A to happen and accepted and then continually forgive my FWW for what happened. My most important EN is honesty and she has complied with that to the best of her ability over the last six months. Certainly more so than ever before in our marriage.

My problem is that our recovery has seemed to kind of stall out. This really revolves around her not being able to meet my other most important EN's which are in order undivided attention, SF and affection. Problem is that prior to the affair, I would have been perfectly happy with what amount of each of these that my FWW is currently giving me. Through the recovery I have worked hard at making sure that I go the extra mile to do all the little things that I didn't do prior to D-Day in addition to making sure that all of her EN were met completely. The little things include making coffee or breakfast when she is in bed (especially on cold days), sending her little love notes through email, calling her spontaneously with a recording of part of a song that tells her how to feel, etc. These things were forced at first but now have just become a habit and I get a lot of satisfaction out of doing them.

My FWW has always had a personality that is measured in extremes. We both see an IC and used to see an MC. Our IC is the same. We are both still on AD's. The problem for me is that I really expect her to work hard to meet my EN's on a reasonable basis. We are both busy with kids and work, yada yada but early on in the recovery we made time to spend together as undivided attention. As in most instances, early on in recovery the SF was often and great. Everyday we each spent some time committed to affection and communication.

About three months into the recovery, my FWW started having her normal cycles where she was often withdrawn, sometimes for days and the SF really diminished. I have talked to her numerous times about how her withdrawls make me feel and the insecurities that it exposes now that I know about the A (I used to be extremely confident and secure). Each time it gets better for a while and then reverts back to the same old pattern which causes a lot of tension in the relationship. Although D-Day was just about 6-7 months ago, the AE ten years ago and NC has been for about forever so fog is not an issue.

I am tired of dealing with this and now seriously considering a seperation or divorce. I just know what kind of a husband that I can be now and am really proud of the effort everyday to be that H. I guess I expect the same from her. There were so many walls that had been built between us for those years when she was keeping her secret that we had to rebuild our R from the ground up. I carried most of the load early on as is typical for a BS as she struggled with the guilt of what she had done. The only reason why we even had a D-day was that our mutual destructive behaviors after the AE and through D-Day had created an environment where I was ready to leave if she didn't come completely clean about all the skeletons in the closet that were causing our continued behavior and justification.

My question is this. I know that MB is strongly supportive of rebuilding M where there is history and kids involved. I believe that we have utilized all the MB principles to rebuild our R. Our IC who is strongly pro marriage has encouraged the continued use of these principles and up until recently has not even entertained the idea that a seperation or divorce is the right answer. But I am no spring chick (41) and now refuse to live in a relationship that is less than what it has the potential to be. My expectations seems reasonable to me: 1) That we make time for each other every day, at least 15 minutes to unwind, communicate, be affectionate, reassure each other and work towards keeping our 15 hr per week committment, 2) That I not have to feel like when we have SF that I have to initiate to the point that she finally gives in (twice a week would be great, I would be satisfied with once a week on a regular schedule). and 3) that she makes a committment to show me in little ways that I am the most important person in her life.

I guess the root of my problem is that I continue to see her able to communicate with her family and anyone in a social environment at will for hours on end, but at home many nights she would prefer to watch a movie in the other room or play Soduki until bed time rather than talk with me about non-important things (how was your day, what do you have going on, what do you want to do this weekend, etc.) Sometimes, these withdrawals are 2-4 days in length. As for SF, she was obviously able to turn on her motor on demand when they met (it was a long distance deal and they only met about once a month but never left the hotel room all day, SF 2-4 times/day) but we never have SF twice in the same day and although she always orgasms she is pretty much wham/bam thank you sir now lets get on with something else. Prior to D-day I never was that affectionate but now the little things, a good kiss, holding hands, etc. makes me feel secure and loved.

When it gets down to it, I am at the point that I am pretty sure that she will never change and be able to give more than she is giving currently. This causes resentment for me because I know she can give more but refuses to do so for whatever reason. She has a pretty dominant taker side and is very emeshed with her family which not only brings out her Codependent things but also tends to exaggerate her selfishness (comes from a family of 9, craves attention from them when they are around) and an Italian culture that pretty much left the men to there own design and focused on the kids and the other family members. At this point, I have to decide if I am willing to accept less than what I feel is reasonable or move on with my life and find someone who will appreciate what I have to offer as a H and partner.

Any advice?

NT

I guess the root of my problem is that I continue to see her able to communicate with her family and anyone in a social environment at will for hours on end, but at home many nights she would prefer to watch a movie in the other room or play Soduki until bed time rather than talk with me about non-important things

My wife is like you---------She can talk about mindless things for hours with a sister over the phone (lots of laughter and camaraderie) and and then provide me with about 2 minutes of conversation in monosyllables. I will never get this one I prefer to talk to my wife than to my own sister. I suspect it may be a family bond or something like that. My wife almost died when one of her brothers stopped talking to her-------she was soooooooo hurt. She felt betrayed-------she even went back to read letters of affection the brother had written years before while shedding a few tears. BTW, her brother talks just like an OM.

Regarding your ENs-------I was like you-------not needy at all. Then after d-d I developed a need for conversation and SF--------if I did not get those I was unstable. I believe that these needs became important because of low self-esteem following the A. This need for ENs opened my eyes and made me realize how terrible it must be to have chronic low self esteem and to constantly try to find value thru the actions of others.

Your last paragraph may be the key.

The sad thing is: I really have no good advice to give you----that is the way they are.

well...i dont know your story because im very new to this site, i found this long after my wifes affair and subsequent divorce, but i imagine that the story of the affair is probably similiar to mine, besides...human nature is pretty predictable.

i left when my wife would not stop her affair, she chose to continue even though she knew the pain she was causing evryone who loved her...including our 2 children. one of my biggest fears was having to go through what you are dealing with now.

i am 42, so i can empathize with your concern with not being a "spring chick"...however i disagree...life is good...its what we make of it!!!

ive been in law enforcement for over 20 years and have had a very real experience of dealing with families and lives at all different stages of divorce and infidelity, not just my own experience.

my ex made a couple of "less than 100%" overtures at reconciliation...i turned her down when she came back...it had been over a year and in reality...i would have given my anything to have saved my marriage earlier...but at the different stages i had moved from hurt, pain, betrayal, anger etc...when she came back, i was hardened and no longer "needy"

i realize, alot of the advice given here is geared towards saving a marriage...but sometimes i have to ask.."at what price"? i read your post and realize i made the right choice when i left, never to return to a potentially treacherous or unloving marriage.

i have a wonderful woman in my life now, all my needs are being met in a manner that i never realized i was missing in my past marriage...my relationship with both my kids are the best it has ever been, (that includes a teenage daughter!) my self esteem and attitude are all in balance...

i say all that but need to add this...i still love my ex in a manner that i like to say.."i loved what i had and loved her as she was"...i knew i could never get my life back as i knew it then because of the infidelity, but i still miss being married to her, but those are only pleasant memories that i block out when i think of the betrayal and pain that was caused and took a few years to get over.

i do not know my ex anymore...she went on to marry her affair partner and from what i can see and am told by my kids...is a very miserable person...but that is her cross to bear...

i thought i would share this with you...i heard a saying once that went something like this..."we humans have a habit of standing next to a barrel full of beautiful ripe apples, not seeing it because we are too busy crying over the rotten one we are holding"

who knows...maybe my marriage was salvageable...i may never know..but your story was a fear i had...and now looking back im glad im where im at now...

my heart goes out to you bro...good luck!

Have you tried asking your wife why she can meet your needs for a period, and then revert back to not meeting them?

Has this been brought up in your counseling sessions?

I know that I do this same thing, but my story is different from yours. If my H meets my needs, then it's easier for me to meet his. But it sounds as if you are always meeting her needs. I think you should bring this up to your wife.

And I'd like to see different answers on here from some of the old timers on the subject of being able to talk and laugh on the phone for hours with other people, but not being able to do that with your spouse. My H does this, he can stay on the phone with his co-workers, his parents and brothers for hours, just talking and laughing. We can't even go out to eat without him being on the phone all the way there. Yet, he can't do that with me. it's very upsetting. I feel that he nurtures his relationship with others more than he has nurtured our relationship.

Ofcourse, we are in the process of getting a D so none of this matters anyway now. I'd just like to see the imput of others on this subject.

Sad thing is that apparently there are similarities with many others WS. Just as almost all affairs have the exact story line, it seems that many of the personality traits of the WS have the similarities as well.

Thanks for input. It helps in some way just to know that many others in similar sitchs. I guess the worst thing is that Stanley is probably right, I know what the choices are but doesn't make it any easier to make a choice.

NT

nottoday---Your wife is trying to behave in a normal manner with you. But of course "normal" after DD is not enough for BS. My husband Stanley wanted and wants me to behave completely different to the way I was pre affair. I am EXACTLY the way I had always been. Now Stanley wants me to be talking 24/7 with him. I am not a talker, never been, never will!! There had been MANY times that I try to engage in a conversation with him, and he is too busy in the computer, or watching TV and responds just "one word" answers. But of course, if he wants to have these deep conversations with me, I have to put my activities at a time in a standstill to listen to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I can talk longer with my sister, actually just one sister, because she is does not know about my Affair. She is not having pre-conceived oppinions about me. I still have guilty feelings about the affair, and sometimes I feel guilty talking to my husband. I feel like I am not worthy of his love and attention to me.

When your wife withdraws is because she is having all these dark thoughts about the affair, it makes her(probably)feel guilty with you. That makes her pull away.
Everything will be falling in place with you and your wife. It has for me and Stanley, everyday is better than the day before. Hopefully his post was more his thougths from months ago and not from now!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Try to be more aloof with her and she will get more interested in you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I personally dont like "clingy" kind of guys. I like my husband to seem secure, put together, not so dependent and hanging to every move or word I say.

Myrta

I am a FWW, and I hope some of my input will be helpful; it seems to me that you have received various types of advice on this particular post. So you need to talk with your W, your MC, and search within yourself for what is individually best for you. I too am struggling with marital closeness with my H in the aftermath of my A. It could be that the layers of hurt (and not meeting ENs) is so deep that it will require much time to recover. You must talk with her and decide if time will improve this situation or if this is as much improvement as you can expect. The process of unraveling the pain and aftermath of an A is quite complex and time consuming.

Hmmm.... why do I have this insatiable curiosity to hear your W's side of this as well? Because sometimes the other person's perspective sheds lots of light on the sitch. You may be doing some seemingly insignificant things that you are not even aware of that might be prompting her to withdraw. Not to say it's your "fault," because it's up to her to make you aware, but whether a person's LB is being filled is determined by the receiver.

I suspect your W is guilty of something we'll all guilty of... slipping into bad habits. It's hard to break old habits, especially if they are something a person's been doing for 10 or 20 years. It requires a deliberate effort.

You talked of conversation, even about "meaningless" things. Neither my H nor I are good conversationalists. Add to that the fact that he's a very technically/logically oriented guy and I'm more far flung and on a tangent (as my posts so indicate), and it's like we don't speak the same language. Just last night, I asked him to answer a basic yes or no question "in simple terms." His answer, chock full of techno stuff, made my eyes glaze over! It didn't help that I was trying to do some work for my job on my laptop. Result: I felt intellectually deficient because I couldn't understand an explanation that he insisted was "simple," and he was probably annoyed because I had no positive reaction to his explanation. No love bank deposits during that conversation!

Sometimes you just have to turn off the TV and the laptop and eliminate all the distractions. Of course that takes you out of your respective comfort zones, but it's necessary.

Finally, and most importantly, early 40s is not old!!!! Jeepers you guys are making me feel ancient and I'm not that far beyond early 40s! Stop that! Please! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe spring chicken is a state of mind?

Hi NTD,

Long time, no "see". I don't post that much anymore, but I can't resist jumping in here. I'm so sorry to see that you're struggling.

What does your wife say about all this? Does she know you're this close to quitting? You say your counselor wouldn't even entertain the idea of
separation/divorce until recently -- What does that mean?

A couple of things stand out to me in your post...

You say, prior to D-day, you would have been happy with the way she's now meeting your needs, but now it's not enough. How much of that is due to your heightened awareness of what makes a good marriage, and how much of it is due to the fact that your self-esteem took such a heavy blow on D-day? If most of it is higher expectations for your relationship, that's one thing. Nothing wrong, IMO, with having high expectatins, especially if you're putting in such a big effort. But if it's mostly because your self-esteem is still suffering, I think you should do some work on that before you throw in the towel. (I just started reading what seems like a pretty good book on self esteem if you're interested. "Claiming Your Self-Esteem: A Guide out of Codependency, Addiction, and Other Destructive Behaviors" by Carolyn M. Ball)

You also mentioned the walls that she built up during all those years that she kept her secret. Please don't under estimate how difficult it is for her to break through those walls. As you know, in my situation, there was no long time lapse between the end of my affair and D-day. HOWEVER -- My husband and I had basically been living seperate lives FOR YEARS. During that time, I did a lot of thinking and growing that I never shared with my H. I made some decisions about myself and my life that I didn't talk to him about. This had gone on for at least six years. That's a lot of cathcing up to do in six months. And it's really frustrating sometimes.

Here's an example. When our eldest daughter, now six, was about 2 1/2, I started thinking about school/education for her. I have some real issues with public schools and how they operate. I've done a lot of thinking, reading, researching and talking to others about this topic, and I have very strong opinions about it. So I started looking into alternative forms of education, including home schooling.

My H would have nothing to do with it. I would try to talk to him about it or ask him to read articles that could help explain my views. He was very dismissive and uninterested. He and is family even made fun of me -- "There goes that non-believin' (ie not catholic), vegetarian smartcookie with more of her wacky ideas again. Why can't she just do things the normal way?" So I just made all the decisions on my own, and informed him what was going to happen.

Fast forward to post D-day. Our daughter has been attending a Montessori pre-school/Kindergarden for the last year and a half and it's been wonderful. My H sees how good it has been for her and expresses new interest in/enthusiasm for the little alternative school I want to send her to next year. GREAT. But just a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the rigamarole it's going to be for me trying to juggle my job, picking-up and trying to get a nap in for our little one, and then picking-up our first grader at her new school half an hour away from our home. My H said, "Look.. what about trying the local public school and if she doesn't do well, we could look into that Sylvan tutoring program or something."

AAARRRGGGH! I wanted to scream, "You still don't get it! DD is very bright! It's not the so-called 'learning' I'm concerned about. It's the system. And your solution is -- if she struggles, subject her to more of the same *@#%*%$ system???!!!" I actually responded in a much more reasonable way... but I've been trying to figure out why I had such a strong, hostile gut reaction... especially when all he was trying to do was help relieve some of the pressure on me!

Here's what I figured out: I formed my opinions about education gradually over time... like putting togehter a huge jigsaw puzzle... with pieces coming from all sorts of different sources. All the while, I resented my H for not wanting to even look at the puzzle, much less figure out how any of the pieces fit together. Now, he's all-of-a sudden interested. But the puzzle is already a complete picture in my mind... and I just don't feel like going back and showing him how it went together piece by tiny peice.

Sorry... that was a bit of a digression. My point is this. I think right after d-day and recommitting to the marraige, there's a sense of reliefe, even euphoria. The relationship feels new again. It's fun trying to meet each other's needs. You start sharing all the "easy" and "fun" stuff you used to keep to yourself. You even have some deeper, more serious talks. But if your H or W hasn't been your #1 confidant (or even #2 or #3) for many years... it can be really, really hard to turn that around.

For years, my H just didn't want to hear it -- whatever "it" was. I felt like one of Pavlov's dogs that got an electric shock every time I tried to discuss anything with my H deeper than "what do you want for dinner?". Even though I KNOW he is much more open now... and really WANTS me to open up... it's very hard for me to break that conditioning. Plus, sometimes it feels like there's just sooo much ground to cover, it's too overwhelming to try.

Is ANY of this making ANY sense?

--SC

Myrta:

I really do appreciate your input. I used to be secure, aloof and not clingy. Then my wife had an A and kept that secret to herself for many years causing a cycle of destructive behaviors on both our parts. That was a crotch kick to me. My understandable reaction was to try and be everything I wasn't when the A happened.

It seems to me that most FWW just want to go back to the way things were before the A. Understandable but they made choices that changed the relationship forever. Isn't it a little unreasonable to expect that things won't change?

NT

I've been mulling this over for a couple of days. It seems to be a common thread on the list these days.

I'm curious if you have taken the ENs quiz lately. The reason I ask is that I know my needs (in priorty)have changed through the different stages of recovery.

Maybe she has been trying to meet the needs idetified early in the recovery but maybe the one that is the top slot now, was not then. Does that makes sense to you?

I know my needs have shifted around in the last 8 months.

just a thought - she may not know what you are expectig from her if she is still going by the expectations from a few months ago.

anyway, just my thoughts.

SC:

I don't have time to get into a long winded explanation (most of you are probably sighing with relief) but to answer your question, at least in my mind, most if not all of my new needs have to do with my heightened sense of what a M can be rather than my insecurities. Although it would not be an honest answer to say that I am less secure today than I was before, that insecurity is totally related to whether or not I want to continue in this relationship and I don't think it bears on my expectations for that relationship except to the extent that I expect more out of the relationship because I know realize that there can be so much more.

NT

Nottoday:

I had these conversations with my wife a long time ago. I wanted to have an “out of this world marriage” with all the bells and whistles.

I knew people having affairs could talk 20 times a day on the phone and write 10-20 emails day to each other.

My quest to reach this heightened state of emotional connection ended when my wife told me that it was impossible to replicate an affair within the marriage.

In other words affair romance will always be more intense and emotional. This type of romance is virtually impossible to have in a normal marriage for the obvious reasons.

NT,
I really like your long winded replies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I learn a lot from them. So when you do get the time, would you do me the courtesy of supplying me with one? Actually several -- to all of the questions I asked?
Thanks,
--SC

Well her reactions change about as much as her moods. Initially she is always defensive and then tries to turn the tables back on me (a handy little trick she learned well through the A and for the years afterward). Her ideas are very similar to Myrta. She is the same as she has always been, but now I need more than she has to give. I agree with her on both counts, but now that I know how much can be contributed to make a marriage really wonderful and I have made a committment to do all those things, I would like to see that extra effort from her as well.

Does she know that I am close to quitting?? Well,yes but I don't really think she believes that I am serious. As much as I enjoy the time and attention that we have together now, I could be very happy in solace with myself, only having to do what I wanted to do, etc. She doesn't remember that when we were living those seperate lives that you talk about, I had no problem occupying my time and I wasn't all that unhappy. I just chose to use that time to work on things I enjoyed and spend it with our kids and building the business instead of meeting someone else at a hotel in secret. How close am I to really giving this up? I just don't know. I am really torn on this one.


Up until the last session, she really felt like that we were doing the right thing and making progress. I missed a session and then when I laid it out that I was seriously thinking of taking a new direction in this deal she explored the why. After talking about it, she expressed that she felt like that my expectations were reasonable and that an alternative was to find that satisfaction without our marriage. She did not encourage divorce by any means, quite to the contrary, she hopes that we can get past this stumbling block and move forward. But, she feels like that the issue is significant and represents a true risk to the continuance of a relationship. So much so that she referred me to another physcoligist (she is a physchiatrist) that she feels can relate to me in more detail on an equivalent intellectual level to further explore the foundations for these feelings and work with her to find some possible solutions. So now I have both an MD and a PhD, delving into my gray matter.



See above post.


Agreed, we can all use some more work. Even though my overall self esteem is fine, as it relates to relationships I am still pretty gunshy. Problem is that this is not something that is cured just by ending this relationship and looking towards a new relationship.


I understand that difficulty, but therein lies an important part of the problem. Those walls were built to protect both of us not only from the other but from ourselves. I have no problem giving whatever time is necessary, but if those walls are only to come partially down and still partially preserved in order to protect her from the relationship long term, I am not hunting that dog. We either have to be working towards a full committment that allows the relationship to truly be a partnership without any walls or boundries or I want to go a different direction. At this point, I am less fearful of living my waning years alone with no one to push my wheelchair, than I am open to an idea that a marriage can be anything less than two people truly becoming one. By definition in my mind, that requires changes from both of us to meet in the middle on many things in accordance with POJA.

Your not catholic and a vegetarian to boot??? Damnnation fire. I have no idea why we so often see eye to eye and you are one of my favorite MB'ers. I am a converted catholic, devout and a beef raiser and red meat eater. I do not eat chicken, and only eat vegatables to compliment my medium rare, corn fed beef dinner.


Very good analogy. Men are from Mars, Women from Venus kind of things. I understand where you are coming from all too well, just in my M the roles are reversed. I am trying to decide if there is enough technology and time to build a bridge between two planets or if I should try and find an effenimine Martian who wants to hump all the time and talk afterwards.



Very good points. Thanks for confusing me further...lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

NT

NTD,

Your post explains exactly how I felt when I was 6-8 months post D-day.

I find it strange someone else felt exactly as I did.

Short list for me 6-8 months out.

I felt very in tuned to my M. I knew exactly what needed to be done, this can be so perfect.

She is not putting in near the effort I am.

I must apprear to be so weak doing all these nice things, expecting the same in return.

I spend all this time researching ways to better our M, she does nothing.

I was also very hypersensative, and read into any little reason why we were not having sex 3-4 times a week.

I new what had to be done to be super husband also.
For me it was almost like switching gears from:

First Gear: (Post D-day) Wounded, Hurt, Insecure, Husband

Second Gear: Focused on Wife/Recovery, Renewed Love Husband

Third Gear: Settling down, stay in tuned, keep balancing, breath a sigh of relief

4th/5th, etc... Don't know yet.

You will not get D or Separate "for this anyway". After what you have gone thru already, this is nothing you can't overcome.

My W and I still have communications issues, or lack of, and things are not perfect. I expect they never will be. If things seem or appear to be perfect, I will get suspicious!

Just stay focused on what you are doing to be a good H. Continue to communicate, and tell your W what you have been considering as an alternative if after a few weeks your feelings have not changed, but honestly I think it is just another phase of recovery.

No time to proof this so please excuse my spelling/type-o's

nottoday.....The reason for one's affair is "usually" not because of the way the BS was before. It has nothing to do with the BS, but with the WW or FWs. I did not have an affair because something specific my husband did in the marriage that I did not liked. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> It was more issues with myself, unresolved things of my childhood(legacy) I also felt very overwhelmed with problems with our children. I felt "overwhelmed" with my life at the time. When I used to talk to my husband then, he would dismiss it as unimportant stuff. His favorite words were "I am happy, everything is fine". I really did not think of the consecuences of my actions.

One of the things that attracted to my husband when we started dating, was his aloofness, his sure ways about himself, he was very cool. After DD, he became a completely different man, I wanted my husband back ASAP. Thank God he is almost back to the way he was. Cool and collected! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Things changed with the affair,yes, but you should not take a personality that does not belong to you. It seems weird, unnatural,ackward and not attractive at all!!

NT,


You're welcome. That's my specialty -- confusion. You outta be inside my head for a couple of days! It's a mess in here!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

To boil it down...

Personally, I don't think your expectations are too high. Not in the long term anyway. Who wants a Honda when they have the means and the method to obtain a Rolls Royce? But maybe your expectations are a bit unreasonable for the six-month mark into recovery.

I think the bottom line is that your W is still unable and/or unwilling to be emotionally intimite with you at this point. That's why she can't sustain her efforts to meet your needs. Why she doesn't feel close to you -- I couldn't begin to guess. It could be all sorts of things. One can only hope she's working through these issues in counseling.

But the real question is -- Is she satisfied with the status quo or is she still working to better herself and your relationship? Since she's still in counseling, I would think it's the latter (even if it's not progressing as quickly/smoothly as you'd like). And if that's the case, I think you owe it to everyone involved to stick it out awhile longer.

--SC

PS I'm actually what I jokingly refer to as a "recovering" vegetarian. aka a "flexitarian". I was veg for about 15 years, but don't have the cullinary skills to raise my kids that way. After DD #2 was born, I felt like all I did was cook, making seperate meals for everyone in the family... so I started incorporating some meat back into my diet.

NTD,

You have been getting some great advice. Perhaps if you read the bookmarked post by SKM you might get further insight into the time required for PERSONAL recovery in addition to marriage recovery.

Here it is SKM's Chronciles

God Bless,

JL

Thanks to all my MB friends. JL you are exactly right that I have gotten some great advice from all and I appreciate. I posted this at a time of great conflict but as the rollercoaster continues, today and yesterday even were part of the ride up even though I look forward every day to the time when there are just the normal downswings of a good marriage instead of the falling off the cliff days that every BS has.

The Chronicles of SKM should be required reading for every BS and probably every WS. That was a great read and really puts things into perspective for me from what is going on in the head of a WS. I think the frustration for many/most BS is that they have had to put in a lot of effort to try and get the ship righted and too often it seems that the WS wants to blow up the steam room again. It is easy for a BS to assume that this is the taker coming out of their WS, but in reality as SKM eloquently points out, as the changes are made by the BS, in many ways it makes them feel even more conflicted because they don't really believe that they deserve that spouse after what they have done even though they know they have been foregiven by their spouse and God.

I will continue the journey. Most of me says that is the right thing to do. Afterall, even though the rollercoaster ride is long and filled with falls off the cliff and seemingly endless crunching rides up, if I evaluate the ride honestly, the bottom of the fall is far shorter these days than they used to be close to D-Day and the climbs upward normally result in new highs. The economist in me says that higher highs and higher lows are the definition of a bull market and that is what we all want. No sense getting out of the bull market before it turns into a bear market.

Thanks all.

NT