Hello everyone,

I am here because I essentially have no where else to go and no real friends to get some very needed advice from.

A bit about US...
been married 17 years, we have a few kids, they are about teens now. he is 36, I am 34. I had an affair 2 + years ago. One night stand that turned into me moving out and staying away from home for a month. We stuffed all things under the carpet in the throws of emotional turmoil and continued a relationship that has steadly gone down hill.

8 months ago I discovered emials from a female companion. I confronted him about them...(august) swore he would never talk with her again, for me to find that on our cell phone call history he had been calling her since October. I was going to move out.. again.. under emotional turmoil, threw things under the rug (HUGE BUMP under that rug) and continued a roomate situation.

We live together, JUST because sleeping together for the first time in almost 4 years, but we have NO relationship.

I have worked very hard to change as a person. I have learned to be an honest, trustworthy person. I am an open book, my husband knows all the passwords to my email, my cell phone, my voice mail. He can have and use my phone at any time. I have no secrets. I have worked on being truthful about where I am, what I am doing, accountable for time, I call when I might be late, I do what I say I will do. I am a very accountable person. WOW! and would you believe that for the first time in my life.. I LIKE ME.

Problem is.. he doesnt care. He will not trust me, does NOT respect me, doesnt LIKE me (when I mentioned that I liked who I am as a person I got a snide remark of.. well I guess IF you like you.. what more change can there be?). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I have DONE EVERYTHING I can possibly do. It has made no difference. I am sorry I destroyed my family. I am sorry I hurt so many people, my family and his. Does sorry take away the pain? nope. Does it make it ok? nope. But I have taken all steps to make sure the people around me understand I am so very sorry to have done what I did.

What I observe from him is that he is still horribly angry. He doesnt communicate to me at all ( apparently I am still an unsafe person to him) when he has something on his mind he calls a lady friend (75 yrs old, like a "mother" to him). He never tells me how he feels, what his world is. He HIDES it. (bomb setting?) Our chldren are still very angry at me leaving and decide to punish me daily for it. They have both sided with him(Hubby) in all their behavior and actions. They have no respect for me and he doesnt nothing to make it otherwise.

Yesterday, I decided for some crazy reason to check his email, ( I HATE being nosy) and I found that he has another email acct. So I confront him about it. He lies and says he does not.. blah blah blah.. and then!! turns the tables and says.. "well i know for a fact you are screwing around again with that same fella.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> (that is nothing but BS) So i figured he was mad and i made sure I didnt confront and put him up a wall again.. so I waited to talk with him later when he calmed down. I asked him .. "did you say that because you are angry or because you believe that?(the new affair thing) he says.."you have been acting weird lately". hmmm.. i think..." so i say to him, "I would really like you to know that while none of my needs are being met, I am not looking else where for them to be met. I would like you to help meet some of those needs. Maybe I just need someone to help me through some tough times that I am going through right now." and he says...
"YOU DIDNT NEED HELP SCREWING AROUND ON ME YOU ARNT GETTING HELP NOW". BAM. kill me why dont u.. it would be less painful.

Would you all like to know why I have been quiet and not acting myself... my aunt was murdered 3 years ago by some men that escaped a kentucky prison. They were both sentence to death for her murder, and recently one of them wrote a letter to the state attorney in South Carolina and said he wants to give up his right to appeal and then in detail admitted to where her body is. HMMPSHHHH...

That is like reliving her kidnapping and murder all over gain.. and I have been in PAIN. GEEEZ. But does he ask. NO.

Ok.. so here it is..

the end of my marriage is at hand. NO he will NOT go to counseling. I feel like I have done all that I can to change for him to like me and want me.. to no avail.

I have been a stay at home mom for 17 years.. what do I do now?


SIgh.
I guess i needed to vent more than anything.

Welcome to MB - no problem venting here -
Hopefully others with more insight will join us shortly
I am sorry to hear you are going thru such tough times.

Have you read all the free material ?

Do you know what EN your H has ?
Have you avoided love busting ?

Good luck and let us know of any progress or regress:

Sincerely
Hope

FP7,

I sounds to me like you have actually been in a plan A. Your H does need help getting past his anger. You can not save or improve your marriage by yourself. You mention that your H has turned your teenage children against you. I am so sorry. Does he think that is for their well being or is he just being vindictive.

As a BS, I do understand the anger, I felt it come to me like a great tidal wave many times following d-day. I am nearly 28 months past d-day and the anger is only mild irritation from time to time now. The hurt does remain though and some days it is still quite profound.

My FWH has done much to make up for his A, but he can't really undo anything and I guess only time will lessen the hurt I still feel.

WHile I don't condone your ONS, I still believe that it is in many ways, much different than my FWH's 8-month affair. He was involved with OW long enough for her to "fall in love" with him and beg him over and over to leave me. In his own way, he lied to both me and OW throughout the affair.

What I am saying is that IMVHO, it isn't as though you were ever in love with OM or even contemplated abandoning your family. You made THE BIG MISTAKE, bad choice, faulty judgement, the worst thing one spouse can do to another. You know that, have admitted it, have tried to and succeeded in improving yourself. SO what does your H want? Has he told you what it is you can do to make him feel better?

Committing adultry himself or engaging in an EA is not going to even things up. Frankly, I think that BS who go on to have affairs of their own are actually worse because they know first hand how much pain their actions are going to cause. And what of the "used" OP?

So what do you do now, follow a good plan A, find out for sure if he is having an A. If he is, find out who OW is and what her sitch is like is she married, does she have children. Then expose the affair.

Good luck to you, take care of yourself and remember that you are not alone here.

Who

Whome,

I konw the gal and I exposed it TWICE. I called her pastor I called her mom, I called her and unfortunately blew it up.. told her I would KICK H ER A$$ if she came near my family again (she got a restraining order) guess she thought I was half serious.. she didnt stop the contact with my H.

That was my point to my H.. you KNEW>> KNEWWWWW!!! the pain that would cause.. and YET you did it anyway..

pay back..

blah.

what a miserable day.

Thanks for your input tho <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

((((footprint))))

Curious about your name choice...when I saw the title to your thread and your name, had to stop in. Glad I did. Reminded me of the poem Footprints...is that where you get your name?

I've been in your shoes, to a degree, by choosing an A and then my H doing the same thing. We are recovering really well. I happened to say those exact words to him during his A...you KNEW the pain this would cause and yet you did it anyway. I added the "How could you?" in there.

That big bump under the rug, elephant-zized, can be eaten...one piece at a time. Lots of pieces, a lot more time than you might be able to conceive of right now, given your pain level and accumulated resentment.

I am really happy you like yourself. Your H's remark doesn't mean he doesn't like you, but that he envies you liking yourself, do you think? May be the one thing he's longed for in his life and hasn't achieved yet.

"Problem is.. he doesnt care. He will not trust me, does NOT respect me, doesnt LIKE me (when I mentioned that I liked who I am as a person I got a snide remark of.. well I guess IF you like you.. what more change can there be?)."

In his wayward state, where there is contact, he will not trust you because he is not trustworthy; will tell himself he does not care to substantiate his entitlement--same for not liking you. These are his current beliefs, thoughts and feelings. They aren't yours. As for respect, you are not respecting him, he knows it, because you both still feel the other is responsible for what is only your own--thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

It is the big hunk of the elephant, worth beginning with.

One way back for me was to shift my focus off of me not knowing this intense pain that I caused, and him knowing it. I shifted it back to knowing I caused pain this intensely. Helped me out to hold my focus, lessen my anger, frustration and stop me from creating more resentments each day.

I did this. I didn't cause him to choose an A, but I contributed pain to my family with my actions. I think that's where you began liking yourself--the transparency to rebuild trust, owning your actions. This isn't self-punishment I'm advocating, but acceptance...you did this and own it, your power. You know his pain.

Respect it. It is his, not yours. He chooses how to deal with it, including running to an A as a cure. He may have planned this to be an exit A from your marriage, because of the elephant in the room...nobody was healing anybody.

From your A, you were bound in your amends to help him heal. He didn't know how to ask for your help, that was his part. You didn't know what he needed to heal, either, which is your part.

Find out.

By leaving during your ONS/A time, you may have triggered abandonment issues in your H. Not your control, but influence, brought this shooting to the surface. In one way, I think you not moving out upon discovering his A was a great move, even accidental, so I don't think the roommate status has only a downside.

Anger is a secondary emotion...comes after a primary one, like fear or pain (which can be from rejection); his anger is needed, to fuel his entitlement in the form of resentment and a lack of respect. Those are the ingredients for an A. I think you know this one.

Have you discovered the whys behind your choice? Won't give you an answer for his because he has his own, but it the part of saying sorry that really counts. Knowing why you chose it and why you won't choose it again.

Venting is therapeutic...you're safe here and can be heard. You'll get to see a lot of what you believe in your vents, how you think and what permissions you give yourself from your beliefs.

I hope you continue to post and to share...your changes in yourself have been the start of a new beginning for you, I believe...I don't think your marriage is dead at all, but that you are tremendously full of resentments that could be worked out, understood and used for your own growth.

Though he states he won't attend counseling, I would urge you to go for yourself...many of us were willing to do it alone (one spouse can save a marriage), when our WS changed their minds...or not. We benefit anyway.

You're not alone.

LA

LA has great advice as usual.

Also you might check this out by Dr. Harley --

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse

I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.

By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.

What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.

I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.

Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment.

Loving anyway..
Yes! That is my favorite poem of all times. In the days and moments we feel like we are so alone.. God is there carrying us the whole way. Gives great comfort if you let it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I would love to say I dont have a dang clue as to my ONS however at this point I can give you a million reasons as to how I ended up there in a positon to destroy lives.

ZERO needs met. NONE. busy mother, loneliness, I had been severly overweight.. had lost a lot of weight. Husband didnt knotice me coming or going.. blah blah blah. I was out with the girls.. drinking heavily.. and this nice young man whom I had known for the past 4 years bought me a couple drinks, paid attention to me, complimented me.. and I was a HUGE SPONGE and made a grave mistake. I also call it irresponsible and selfish. gads.

As for hiding the huge elephant.. you know we hardly talk abuot the affairs. Usually someone has a bad trigger day (ran into OP) and it triggers bad moood and tons of LB's! I try to ignore the fight and walk off to not engage in such messy things, but sometimes you just cant help but retort <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

When I ask him if he loves me.. he used to say .. I DONT KNOW.. now he says.. yes.. but not inlove.. (oook.. )_
when i ask if he wants to be married for life.. he says..I DONT KNOW.

Do you want to work on this marraige.. I DONT KNOW.
Do you want a divorce... I DONT KNOW.

when i throw out.. IM LEAVING I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS BS.. i get.. I LOVE U DONT LEAVE.

ORRRR

I get the.. where u going to go? U have no one.. etc etc.

I honestly think right now the only glue that holds us together is the children.

my H loves to dwell in the past. he is a past lover I think at times. What a way to use my affair by reminding me of what I did wrong. Yes he uses it to "dominate" the relationship. LOOK WHAT U DID.. he doesnt look athis EA as a real affair.. when i pointed out.. that is how an affair starts.. he says.. I WOULDNT GO THAT FAR.. well he couldnt stop calling ehr could he?

blah.

ahh I rememeber now what I was thinking....

He also hates the fact that I have forgiven myself for the affair and what the end result was. He says that I walk around like I am perfect and how can I act so innocent when I am guilty guilty guilty...

I think he is guilty of unforgiveness towards me and himself for his own duty of EA??

I guess now that I dont walk around sulking and crying and begging him to love me.. I am a perfect human?

hmm.

I relate to your WH...I call it being a timekeeper...past lover...it was my urge to measure my life...and the only safety I felt was in what had passed...present was often unbearable (it seemed) and the future looked like more of the same.

A little aside there...

Okay, footprints...what did you think of believer's post containing Harley's words? Hit anything in there?

You know how you had an ONS...you know what, when and where...I would dare to say that you are here, in this terribly painful present, because you didn't get to the why...the real why for your choice. We can be sponges, living externally through others, so when our needs aren't met, we feel erased. A little attention and we fill back up, like coming up for air. Still doesn't answer the true why of your choice...you chose to be an adulterer, and that wasn't in you before, or was it? I am not attacking or bashing, I promise.

When we own stuff, we act differently. It begins to replace beliefs that existed to get us there in the first place. You began down that road...got to where you liked yourself, owned a lot of you, changed a lot of you...I think you just missed some basics, some core stuff, that got you to the place where you are being faced with a revenge A.

There is the element of power in your marriage, and I believe this is old, pre-A days stuff...before I go further, I have a question:

"We live together, JUST because sleeping together for the first time in almost 4 years, but we have NO relationship."

Are you saying you don't sleep in the same bed (4 years)? Or no SF? Or no SF and now SF? I'm sorry, I don't get this part.

It's important.

Core stuff...
"you know we hardly talk abuot the affairs."
"walk off to not engage in such messy things"

I honestly think right now the only glue that holds us together is the children.

I see the "we" and am looking for the "you" part.

You got to where you forgave yourself...what about his forgiveness? The healing I asked about? Respect?

Resentment has eaten a hole inside of you...began before your ONS...has continued. You are taking poison and waiting for WH to die. Wanna work on that?

Would you be stunned that I'm saying you are actively killing your marriage? Seperate from what your WH believes, thinks or feels...your part matters.

LA

Lovinganyway,

I will try to answer your questions. I had to read the post a few times to really understand what you are saying here.
(yes I am stunned.. but ansser from beginning to end)

BINGO.. yes I had to re-read that post too (believers). That is exactly what happens.. and worse.

I dont have a why for you I guess. I dont know why. I think at times it was payment for his past abuse? To hurt him as deeply as he had hurt me for 10 years? I am not real sure. I dont have an answer right now for u.. I will realy think on it.

My H told a friend of ours the reason he had his revenge EA was to HURT ME like I HAD HURT HIM. Period.

We had not slept in the same bed since 2003. I guess that is 3 not 4 years. we would go months w/o sex. And after the affair ofcourse NONE for almost 8-9 months.

From his part there isnt forgivness. There is no respect. I have worked hard to respect him as a person and as a father to our children and as a husband. Hard to do when beaten over the head constant with my past. but it is done.



I have been told that the reason I got msyelf into a position to have an affair is because i was selfish and on ly thought of I.. so.. is that an I in there? I dont find I.. me.

What do you mean I hold resentment? I dont get that? I am not looking for WH to die.. What i am looking for is either a forgivness and willingness to begin a friendship that could turn into a relatinship or a plum way out. I am 34 and do not see the benefits in being torchered about my past. I do beleive that there is a time where you must learn to forgive and being a process of moving on or you are going to die. Time to grow.. or time to die.. one or the other.

Did I answer your questions?

You fit Dr. Harley's statement in his example to a "T." your husband is abusing you and trying to gai nthe upperhand thru that abuse.

Time to create a crisis! You should not stand for that kind of abuse...or any kind of abuse.

Dr. Dobson has a great book entitled "Love Must be Tough." read it. And understand it dovetails nicely to what you are learning here. You must deal with your husband as equals. You must deal with him as his wife...not his emotional punching bag.

So, dont go off on him anymore. But dont let him run over you either. Stand up and say "I will not allow you to speak to me this way...when you are ready to speak with me as my husband should, I will be in the other room." And then leave. No way any discussion should continue as long as it contains abuse.

You are going to have to stop this FP. You are going to have to draw the line.

In His arms.