Read some of your posts and am intrigued by your tag line. I think we are in the same sitch. Mind if we start a new thread? I'd like to explore more w/you.

thanks

Sure, ask away.

Ok, I read your other post. I love the website below for helping to explain this to me. Now, X was never diagnosed, because NPD's don't go to counseling <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Why bother, it is someone else's fault after all.

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

My favorite statement from this site. You will never feel good after an interaction with an NPD.


Now, as I say this and look at the site again, I need to caution that divorcing an NPD is painful. It's not about the kids, it's all about them. Fairness and equity are not even a consideration. His stock statement, "I want what I want". would sound like boundary setting, but for an NPD, it is what they want or nothing. Compromise is unknown. Mediation doesn't work.

My X is trying to take me back to court because he doesn't think he should have to transport his children to school after his overnights. I should drive to his house and pick them up from him at exactly 7:30 am. (The decree states otherwise).

We went to a mediator recently about holidays (2 yrs. post D) and she said we'll be back in court every 2 years. She point blank told him he doesn't stand a chance with the driving, but apparently, that didn't stop him from getting a new lawyer.

So, after spending one year of college costs on legal fees (my side only), I count the years until I am free of this man. OH, and I met mine after the job issues. His bosses were always wrong so he started his own business. However, he has no idea about profits, just about doing what he wants. And I never saw money from the business.

Good luck.

I thought of other things that might help too.
Narcissism can be viewed at abuse. I found the book "the verbally abusive relationship" extremely helpful in explaining my situation and helping me recover. There are two realities, yours and theirs, and we can't understand theirs.
Another abuse site is www.drirene.com

My H and I went to MC today. He has been seeing this guy for IC weekly since Jan, we've been in joint sessions 3X. I have my own IC. Anyway, today near the end of the session, I asked if I could speak to MC alone and he said yes and asked H if it was ok. H left the room.

I asked MC about my theory of narcissism and/or passive/agressive and he said I was very perceptive. I told him I'm not a psychologist but I am a scientist and am trained to observe and conclude. I really think I was in a fog for 23 years because of my enabling/dependency - I was a stay at home mom with three boys. He was the breadwinner and for some reason I felt deep love for the man - probably just trying to "make" him love me back.

Anyway, I gave him a few examples of emails I snagged to his friends and he said it fits pretty perfectly.

I asked MC if there were some tests and he said there were but he was reluctant to use them. I asked MC to see him separately and try to figure out whether this is "core behavior" (i.e, true NPD) or just traits that he's had to carry for boundaries. MC said sometimes it's a coping mechanism for folks (mostly men) who have had no expectations of them as a child (no chores) and a not-so-good Dad role model. Well, the only time H's Dad paid attention was to belittle and Mom kinda smothered - did everything for him.

I'm not playing into H's twisting things to be my responsibility any more. He has a history of major purchases w/out my consult - scheduling weekends with the guys w/out input from me. Bought a high-end sport bike (motorcycle) 3 years ago, didn't even tell me. Still making the stupid payments and he hardly ever rides.

So, after an argument last week he got up and said he was putting the bike up for sale. I said 'you sure'? He said, yeah, it was just a matter of time before he got hurt. Then he told my teenage son that I was making him sell it - 'just trying to make everyone happy...'

Well, I called him on it and said he can't pull that [censored] on me anymore. I'm not having it.

Are you doing ok on your own? I'm not exactly in your shoes because my youngest is 16 and the older two are in college so I won't have the unfortunate kid thing.

thanks for listening to the ramble.

I just read that whole site and i'm saddened to say that a lot of those traits are me. Not all of them but quite a bit. I've never been able to open up in therapy and never stuck with any of them long enough to do me good. I'm arguing with my wife about stupid things and then 5-10 minutes later calling back acting like nothing happened. How do I stop this? I don't want to continue being like that I must be a really bad person to be around just like anyone that acts like that must be. Again I work 70-80 hours a week and let that consume my life and try and act better than other people because I work so hard. Its not right If anyone has any information that will help me I would really appreciate it.
I have always known that I had a personallity disorder and told my wife many times I did but I didn't realize this is what it is. I need help and I will be going to therapy but any personal experience or words of hope would be nice. maybe you know someone that had this problem bad that have transformed their life. A lot of that really hit home I have never really felt for other people only have said it and I have never really known what I feel. Thank you I think that was probably the best thing I could have found today. I just need to do something about it now and maybe I can actually have a happy life and make things right with my wife. Not saying get back together because I don't beleive she would ever take me back but just make things right. Thank you again

Wow, very similar backgrounds.
I'm a professional, so financially I'm OK. Actually, I feel great without the drain of X on the financials. By trade, I'm an analyst, so I know what you mean about being a scientist and wanting everything to fit a diagnosis. I also get the bike stuff. First thing x did when he left was buy a bike.

OK, so you are codependent. Let me guess, are you an ACOA too? If so, guess what? If we didn't learn to heal ourselves early in life, it comes back to us again. It's also why we choose who we did. It was familiar, and safe (just not healthy.)
Have you read any books by Melodie Beattie "Codependency" and Codependency no more? I read alot in the beginning, and also did alot of books on tape from the library which explained a great deal.

My x's mom still does everything for him. She drives the kids to school, and now that FIL is sick, she doesn't have the time, hence X thinks I should do it.
Let me know if I'm off track on the ACOA stuff, or if you need clarification. I've found this (family abuse) model to hold true with many people. We do play out our families of origin (FOO) in our marriage partners.

I lived in denial for a while, I like my reality now. I'm working on becoming emotionally healthy, and still have a long way to go. I was blessed with the right people in my path at the right time. Finding a Divorce support group for me, and a rainbows class for the kids. I have a high pressure job and am a working mom and love it, and hope I'm showing my girls that mom's can be strong and get through stuff.

This is my weekend off, so I'm off to a date tonight. Should be interesting.

As I looked again at the post, there are so many books that describe the various interactions. Can you imagine living a life where you are not always to blame for anything that happens. It's very freeing.
And now I really try to stress personal responsibility to my girls, because I don't want them to replay our FOO issues in their lives. I try to model good behavior for my girls and for myself. I'm a much happier person now.

Bryan -

Oh, hon - you have just put your foot on the freeway! Like an alchoholic, the first step toward recovery is acknowlegement. From what I've read, if you had true Narcissistic Personality Disorder, you would have never wrote that post!

Do some research and find a good therapist (PhD) who specializes - ask them what their experience is in NPD or narcissistic traits.

I am not giving up on my H yet. I need to know if this is "core" (true NPD, which I don't believe it is, because he has admitted to me that he's been extremely selfish and has treated me badly), or just a coping mechanism from childhood wounds. His IC will get back to me after 6 months with his observations.

So it is for you, my dear. Please get help - you will awaken to a whole new you and a better way to communicate with the rest of this wonderful world we live in. If you feel like you are depressed, see your physician. There are some great anti depressants out there now w/few side effects. I'm taking lexapro for depression/anxiety and I can't believe how much better I feel.

Hugs from me, Bryan - I have faith that, in time, you will heal yourself. But you gotta stick with it, guy!

T2D

Newly,

what is ACOA?

We did enneagram typing and I am a 6/8 split and H is a strong 4 w/some 7. But it was actually my physician that suggested he may be narcissistic. He sees her too, she's been our family doc for about 15 years. That's when I started the research and it's blowing me away.

I think I have been co-dependent in the past, but not any more. I have a good job w/great benefits. Went back to work full time 5 years ago and the fog started lifting then, probably because my world didn't revolve around him and the kids so much anymore.

Anyway, I don't think he's full blown NPD because he's getting an inkling that something is really wrong and he's starting to take responsibility. But I'm having trouble determining if it's real or if he's just afraid of "losing" me, the rock in the relationship.

take care - you are truly an inspiration!
I'll keep you posted

AND BYRON, THE ALCOHOL IS THE SOURCE OF YOUR PROBLEMS. THERE MAY BE MANY OTHERS, BUT THEY ARE LIKELY A BIPRODUCT OF THE CORE REASON. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE DEALING WITH YOU EACH DAY?

It happened I stopped by the house the other morning and went down stairs to see my wife naked lying on the couch with another guy. I'm feeling very numb right now. I went back to the new place i'm living and slept all day and all night and the only reason i'm up right now was because I had to go to work. This has happened all my life and she has always wondered why i'm so insecure and then it goes and happens again. I really don't know what to think anymore except I need to get myself help before I hit rock bottom. I can't let this ruin my life