If she wants to believe u r stepping 'all over her space', then you are dealing with a Ws regardless of where her body has been. Her mind retains some evil intent and it w/b best if you get yourself in a spacer space away from her.

I hate to say it but ignoring her would probably have a bigger impact than any pampering you w/b doing.

See regardless of what you do, in the Ws eyes it is wrong. Your best behavior w/b seen as 'stepping into her space' and you'd be left wondering...what????

Recognize babble when you hear and learn how to respond.

JMHO,
L.

orchid - how do I get into a space away from her - without it being completely over? Do we move into do I ask her to move out of our bedroom and seperate the bank acounts? Do I continue to drive her around and make dinner for her? Because of our schedules I do almost all the daily stuff...how do I make space...I told her I needed a commitment from her that she was going to work this out without just sitting around and waiting until something betterwas available. she said she was going to do that - come home every night etc...but i need to back off...she can't have any pressure.

U do what u must 4 your family, not 4 the WS.

ex:

BS: (makes dinner 4 self children)

WS: where's my dinner?

BS: ...in the fridge.

WS: Aren't u goimg 2 serve it to me?

BS: Nope, we already ate. U can gewt your own & do the dishes.

WS: Why?

BS: u want your space, u got it. We will leave u alone t/d the dishes.

WS: What? I dont want t/d the dishes.

BS: Well 'i cooked 2nite, so u get dish duty. u can provide dinnet tomorrow & I'll do the dishes.

WS: I get home late, u know I cant do dinner.

BS: OK, sounds like u want t/d the dishes. (then excuse yourself)

RE: See u provided dinner..... no need to treat her as u would your good W. If she is a babbling WS or Xws, she needs to learn it ain't all gonna be easy or her way. I found out that the less I did, the more the xWS had t/d, the sooner I saw my real H return.... it's true, less is more,

Pls 4give my typing. It is 1 handed 2nite 'cuz I cut my finger on my left hand.

L.

Hi Orchid - thanks for this posting...I don't know where I would be without this forum...if nothing else I feel like I am not alone in this. I tried what you said out this morning...I took care of the baby and the dogs (as I always do) but I got her lunch and mine together and spoke very little. She then asked me if we were not speaking today...I said I was spaeking to her. Then on the car drive in I listened to what I wanted - usually we only listen to her music. I was cordial but not warm. When she got out of the car she was all sad sacked out. Me - I felt strong and fine. Kissed my kid goodbye and said goodbye to her. I think I will continue on this path...I have always jumped for herand pampered her - no more.

Do I let her continue to slep in our bed?

when I said I got her lunch together - I meant the babies and mine...I let w fend for herself.

I have one other question...do i continue to stay away from my family? I was doing so out of respect for my w and actually to appease her demands. She did not want to see them and didn't want my daughter to see her grandparents without her being present. - but it has been almost 4 months now since my folks have seen my daughter...now she says she doesn't care and I should take her...but i feel like she is testing me to see if I do it. have i mentioned i hate my life.

cl, that is a completely UNREASONABLE demand to ask you to stay away from your family and keep your D from her grandparents! WHY would you do this to your parents and your daughter??

I believed some seperation from my family would give her the security that she needed so that she knew she was my priority and our family was my priority...my mother can be high maintenance (and so can my w) so I wanted to make sure my w felt ok and then rebuild from there. but i am afraid my w is so far gone...so insecure and lacks any compassion for anyone but herself...that it didn't make a dent. Like i said i have jumped through hoops to make her happy and have gotten nothing but this in return.

I would like to talk to my folks...I am sure I will get a heap of I told you so's about this...

thank you for your input...

should she also still be sleeping in my bed? any thoughts on this would be
appreciated.

cl, yes she should be sleeping in your bed, that is a good thing.

But it is not a good thing to APPEASE your W in doing unreasonable things, such as cutting off your family. You need your family now more than ever and there is absolutely no good reason to avoid them. If she wants to avoid them, then let her do that. But don't YOU and DD avoid them. Appeasement will get you nowhere.

do I continue to send her one e-mail during the day to just say that I am thinking about her and hope she is ok...she never responds to me anymore when I e-mail her. Is this an invasion of the space that she says she needs?
Just a few weeks ago she would call or e-mail me a couple of times a day...i don't know where this all went so wrong in such a short period of time.

so much for me feeling strong today...i feel myself crumbling as the hours pass. I feel ok when we are together - at least I know what she is doing...but now she is out there nd I have no idea what is going on.

***Is this an invasion of the space that she says she needs?***

CL -- come on, man -- do you really not understand what she means by "I need my space?"

It means, "I need to go scr*w my boyfriend without you getting in my way."

That's ALL it means. It just means she wants to carry on her affair without any interference.

Again -- she is bullying you and manipulating you. You are scared to death of her and are lying down like a doormat and going along with all kinds of outrageous orders in an effort to appease her.

This is the WORST thing you can do. Women do not love men whom they do not respect, and they do not respect men whom they can bully and walk on.

Orchid's advice was dead on. She wants space? Give It To Her. Stop enabling her affair. Stop helping her and appeasing her. All it's doing is enabling her cheating and removing the last dregs of respect that she ever had for you.

At this point, I don't think Plan A is going to help you. You have already bent over backwards to give her anything she wants and she is just using all that to become a hardcore fencesitter. I think you need Plan B very soon so you can let her have all the "space" she thinks she wants. Frankly, her moving out would be the best thing that could happen, because then you could do a pitch-dark Plan B.

Never forget this: She is not "confused." She is not trying to "choose" between you and the OM. She wants BOTH of you. She wants the OM for all the fun of dating and sex and she wants YOU for the security of a husband.

And she will do this as long as she can bully you into going along with it.

STOP LETTING HER SCARE YOU! SHE AND OM ARE COUNTING ON IT!
Mulan

thank you...thank you ...thank you...
I hope you folks don't get sick of me...I am so much in a state of shock and I gain alot of strength here. this woman has been bullying me around for so long that i have lost alot of esteem when it comes to her...she screams and tyrads around and everyone is supposed to shut up and take it. She is scary - no bones about it. She has almost no lasting friendships...she goes through them because there is always something she ends up hating about them...I always knew I was a target...now I figure it was just my turn.

You are right I have been in plan A for ever and it has not worked - probably years. I am sick of making her happy and getting nothing in return but a crapload of debt and misery. i appreciate your advice...i need it.

wow i just read through these posts - mine included - i don't know whats happened to me. after years of being belittled and bullied - i am almost just a shell...it is time for me to regain my self respect...and take a little something back for me and my kid.

Get your feet planted firmly on the ground, find a way to distance yourself from all the emotion and begin planning in an intellectual way to deal with all this. If you can't do it on your own, see your Dr. for some anti-depressants, which will take the edge off your emotions.

This is like a war. You have to create and execute a battle plan. Marriage Builders is that battle plan, and this forum is like your brain trust to help you sort out, and deal with things you are facing in each battle. You are not alone in this battle, but you have to execute the plan in order to make gains on the enemy (infidelity).

OK?

SD

Re: Orchid's advice - yes this is my new plan of action. After I was indifferent and a little icy this morning and she was all sad and pathetic...this afternoon she called me just to check in? Now I am just convinced I am married to a nut...she now wants me to pick her up after her night out (which she yelled at me for offering a couple of days ago.) She asked about my day and wanted me to look at the project she is working on at work with her tomorrow. She told me to have a great dinner with my daughter and she would call me asap. what the h***!!!

The WS defies logic, don't they?!?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Once you get the hang of this reverse babble and WS illogic, you will be better equipped to handle the rollercoaster. It's like taking dramamine..... you don't get as sick. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Just don't fall for those purty eyes and sweet talk. Watch how she can turn on a dime and realize that you c/b her friend and victim in the same breathe. Scary?!?!??! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hey completelylost,

Can I ask a question? Don't take this wrong in any way. Just consider it homework. Can you sit down in a quiet place and let your mind relax and just think about what is your greatest fear? Okay - that is two questions - maybe - I think. But can you post that answer here? I was reading a few of your more recent posts and it made me curious. As a BS, I think it helps to know what your fears are.

yes...t i will do that. Last night she ended up calling me around 7 and said she didn't want to go out...she was tired and wanted to come home? Then when we were driving home...she told me she was sorry if she stressed me out. Then she went on a tangent about how she doesn't feel cool anymore. is this a mid life crisis...or guilt or what.

there has been a definite shift in the past couple of days and orchids advice was the definitely the best action to take. I think she is trying to play games with my head...and it was working.

Last night she was so sweet and apologetic for making me come pick her up. Again sorry for stressing me out with the going out with friends thing. We stopped at a drive through to pick upsome dinner for her and she wanted to buy me something to eat...I said no I was fine. But then she was practically force feeding me in the car...wanting me to take part in it with her - and very chatty. We are both muscians and now she wants us to start playing ut again (something I did when we first met - before the baby) I tried to still stay cool with her mood swing.

This morning I dropped them offf - kissed my daughter and told her I loved her. W just looked at me - expectantly. I told her to have a good day. She looked hurt...so I called back to her and she thought I was going to tell her I loved her...i just said definitively - have a good day. I have always told her I loved her - I wanted her to know it...now I haven't said it in a long time...I think she is starting to feel it.

What am I afraid of?

She won't love me anymore (I am trying to come to grips with this) I have alot to offer and don't deserve to be treated this way.

She'll sleep with someone and want to leave - she'll throw everything away - because of her selfish needs - I thought she knew what marriage would be - an ebb and flow....that it takes work to be in nlove and stay there. I think she is much more immature then what I anticipated.

A big fear for me...coming from a family of divorce...is that my daughter will grow up split between parents...and not have the family we had dreamnt of and begun building together. I told wife when we had kids that was it for me...that we would have to work through the tough stuff together and always find a way.

CL,

Just read thru your posts. Your a lucky man to have found this site so early on, and you are receiving great advise.

Also sounds like you are making the corrections that will get noticed by your W.

Let the guru's smack me around if I'm off the mark with the following suggestion.

How would your W respond if you plan an evening out with friends, without her? This lets her see you are not invading her "space", and lets her know life has not come to s screeching halt for you while she ponders her future.

I suggest this because it worked for me. Pure luck, but I turned from the "needy basket case" to "call me when you get your head straight". It was very powerful, and also made me feel better about myself.