Hi LA - thanks for your post...you know i am hurting so bad that any possibilities that something is wrong in her...it helps - you know?

I am a strong person - honest - loyal - good. - kind - with no expectations ...but why is she still here - why? These weekends hurt so badly - she is right here - right under my nose - but i can't touch see smell - be near her. i start to think it is cruel and unusual punishment...i put up my walls - put up a good front...but i want to talk to her...i want her to see ME...and she just doesn't care...she shows no care at all....she is an iceberg towards me.

so the therapist - who i have carefully represented my wife to so as not to give any false informat ion to - gave me something to hang my hat on...perhaps it was wrong - perhaps it is the easy way out. really i just want her to make up her mind - stay or leave - rip the band aid off quick for gods sake and let me heal. I can't take living in this purgatory...i want out of it - i want to left alone now...If she were to just go I WOULD BE OK...why can't she just go if that is what she wants... and if she doesn't want to go then stay and commit to the life we started...I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND why anyone would want to inflict this sort of pain on someone....i don't understand

she is texting OP now all the time - 11:00 at night - all weekend...I am done - i need to be left alone now...i need to heal...i need to be loved and love someone who is going to treat me with respect.

last thing...she was talking about my space yestereday...so i logged on to check it out...and she has a profile on there that lists her as single. i almost threw up on mu computer...it was posted on 4/4 and not updated since - BUT STILL - i don't like the monster that is living in my home right now...

"Hi LA - thanks for your post...you know i am hurting so bad that any possibilities that something is wrong in her...it helps - you know?" Know this about yourself...you are honest and loving...even to yourself. Stay honest and loving. You're doing great. Yes...it helps to stop your feeling of being wrong, rejected, useless and worthless.

And you must stop believing you are those things...you're an honest person. Please stop these lies within you in regard TO you.

"with no expectations" :::sound of screeching rubber on asphalt:: Huh? Wha? You have no expectations? Really?

"...i want her to see ME" When you stop DJing yourself and others, you will KNOW she sees you, feels you, lives through you...makes her choices from your actions...and you won't like her truth of doing that either. Know that you are known, loved, and a part of her life. Choose to believe that.

Your choice.

"rip the band aid off quick for gods sake and let me heal." You picked a perfect metaphor, CL. You want the pain to end, either in her staying or leaving, and for it to be quick. As children, the bandaid was monumental. There were theories, consideration and examination. As adults, we will pull duct tape off without a thought...ouch! Your child is hurting, scared, feeling erased, invaded and abandoned...all at the same time. Please know that your pain cannot be quick either way...it continues...because it is coming from within you, not her.

You are monitoring her actions, like swallowing acid with a sink cleaner chaser...how's your O&H? "WW? I know you are in contact with OM every day. I know you are choosing to portray yourself as single to strangers. I feel severed inside and am working on it."

Hand back her choices...they are hers, not yours.

"...I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND why anyone would want to inflict this sort of pain on someone....i don't understand" This kind of pain is incomprehensible when we experience it. We do damage every day, but this is the motherlode...the amount we cannot imagine...and we are immersed by it. She does not want to inflict pain consciously...she wants to stop her pain by her choices. And she is willing to inflict this pain in her belief that it will make you stop hurting her this much.

Two different amounts, felt by two different people. Impossible to compare. I have the privlege of having had both sides...and I thoroughly validate that the pain you're experiencing outdistances hers. And that doesn't change a thing.

Half of the pain you're experiencing is being done to you by you. Your counselor owns part of it...gave you relief in that fantasy of something being wrong in her...and leaves you unprepared to walk back in the door to the your WW's actions, which remain the same...yet feel incalculably more painful.

Tomorrow, you'll focus again on yourself, acting from your code, not reacting to her...you will open your mouth and state reality...you will make simple O&H statements about your thoughts, feelings and beliefs and you will listen and repeat.

Your choice. Your power. And you will make your intent the pure one...to learn from pain, grow hearty and full from it, and not make your choices based on ending that pain as quickly as possible.

If you don't, then you will be ripping you off.

LA

I understand completely where you are coming from CL. The pain is excruciating. Don't give up. You still have hope.

I have found a shift in my attitude that is quite striking. When everything started, I would only be calmed by talking to her. When we were apart, I was a wreck. My work suffered.

Since she has told me not to have any hope, I am actually a lot better when NOT talking to her. I saw her today and it ruined me. I talked to my parents for a long time and felt better...they were under the impression that I am struggling. I told them that I was fine, but everytime I see her, it opens the wound. Otherwise, I have started to realize that my life isn't much different without her. We didn't see each other enough for me to feel that my life is completely different. I don't have her to go to dinner with occasionally, or by my side at night, or her physical affection. All things that I miss, but 95% of my life is the same with her gone...and I am okay. You are right, you will be okay too, but don't give up just because it is hard. If you can work through this, you will reap the rewards. If she chooses to move on, THEN you move on...in the mean time, relax, breathe (like you told me!).

I know exactly what you mean about the texting and the "single" profile. After I talked to WW on Monday evening when we determined what would happen in the event of a D, she told me that she was going to call him. I couldn't believe that she would do that. She keeps saying she doesn't want to hurt me, then does that. I just went and did my own thing. Now that she is out of the house, she is going to do it anyway. I can't control what she does, and obsessing about it will only bring me down.

I hate the fact that she tells her friends that something is going on with him. Meanwhile, if someone asks me if I'm married, I still say yes. I AM MARRIED...SHE IS TOO! I have realized that she will do whatever she wants. I will work on myself.

Stay calm...relax...breathe

It is very difficult to be O&H with her - she does not talk about anything...she does not mention anything...she does not acknowledge that anything is happening...she acts like she is just FINE...laughing and chatting with me like we are pals. If i say a word about me or even us...if i am i show any emotion...anger / hurt - she rolls her eyes at me...threatens to leave...etc..

i feel i shouldn't speak openly about what i know yet because i have no concrete evidence...and she denies everything - tells me she can have and do whatever she wants...but she doesn't want to leave because she has nowhere to go.

yes my child is hurting...and my adult is hurting too...this is apprehensible behavior..every morning i wake up i am offended by her actions everyday...

I do have expectations - that we took those vows to love honor and cherish...for better or worse...that they be lived up to. I am living up to my end of the bargain...and much more.

i am respectful, honest, good in my soul, kind.
and i am incredibly tired

LA i know these are resentments...(above) but i am feeling really angry now - i needed to vent

Vent away...what you are hearing from me is judgment. I am not judging. Not my intent. I respect that's what you're hearing.

Find where your anger is coming from...not the outside, but the inside. This isn't making anger your fault...no blame here. Anger is a secondary emotion, a signal...find your source. I'm not out to banish it for you or with you...want to be with you as you comprehend its information.

"It is very difficult to be O&H with her" What you go on to say is that it is difficult because of her. True O&H has nothing to do with her. It is only O&H about you, for you, aloud. I understand your pain is getting in the way of this...

Tired. Oh, yes, I remember tired. Soul tired. And I didn't want anyone to tell me I was making myself tired, fatiguing me out...increasing my load with what wasn't my load...and they told me, anyway.

You will not disappointment, anger or sadden me with your choices about your life, your present. You will not betray me with lies nor fail my expectations, CL.

You can't.

We are separate and equal. I respect your choices and am here to show you to yourself, make introductions and grow from the experience myself. I will not judge, measure or demand anything of you or about you.

I will not stop showing you where you are the source of your own pain and choose to believe it is coming from outside yourself.

Then I would betray you.

I don't do that anymore.

I'll respect your request to abate, step off your thread or shut the heckfire up. I won't take offense. I believe in you.

And I'll believe in you long before you believe in yourself, because that's my choice. Nothing you can do or say will change my choice. Only I do that.

LA

LA - i am angry at her...i am sad at her...i am sad at her choices...i hurt...

i am not asking you to shut the heckfire up...i am just so sad...you have been a beacon of light...a clear voice for me...and i believe you know her and can be my voice to her soul while she is away.

i spoke to her tonight...told her i am sad...that i am hurting badly...that this is the hardest thing anyone has asked me to do.

she said she can offer me no guarantees - that she needs her space and as long as i keep bringing this up - she can't be here. she said she needs to be free to come and go as she pleases...see friends without me - go out and try to heal and that i should do the same...we can do things together but we need to do things seperate...and that these things have nothing to do with me...maybe she will come back - but she doesn't know and can't promise anything...

i just f***ing hurt alot.

i have made mistakes today...i got angry with her - then i cried...i am angry with myself for that...she says she feels horrible...she says it would be easier if i hit her...was mean to her...mistreated her...she knows i have not. but she can't help how she feels. she said she is sad...but i need to muscle up...that if i can't she can't be here..

she talked alot though...and i listened hard...repeated...i only used i statements i was careful...but i did not want to cry...like a freaking child.

I thought i was muscling up...i thought i was toughing this out. she tells me i have not...but i think those may be her eyes...perhaps not seeing me. She made breakfast this morning...she said i was sad - because that was usually family time and she could see it in my face...i wasn't sad - in fact i was quite happy she did this....and i told her...then she admited perhaps those were her feelings and not accurate.

i am afraid i keep pushing her away - and i don't even realize it when it is happenening. or that she misreads me - when i am actually in a good place I which i have been most of the time. but the damage keeps occuring....and now she wants to go away for weekends...she wants to stay out at friends if she so desires....she just wants to have fun??? she said there is noone else - and she asked why i would think that...i said it is hard to believe that she would do this without cause.

i know the band aid is an easy fix...i will hurt but i will heal...i hate waiting...i hate resenting...and being sad and angry all the time. i have been so sad for over a year now...first with my family and her anger and her cursing and scraeming at me about them...it was nonstop...it crashed my self esteem...she belittled me to such a depth that i have felt so poorly about myself...then i started to come back...things were good...got a great job...agreat house and it only lasted a coupleof months and now this...it has really been such a long time of sadness...i truly want to be happy now...i am tired of fighting and losing with her...i want my daughter to be happy - she has lived with us spinning in this cycle all this time...and i am sad she has to deal with our failures

one last thing (sorry about all thi tonight) I told her i knew about the texts and the phone calls...she said she can speak and text who ever she wants and if she needs to get a seperate line - she will. i told her it was hurting me that all this was going on outside our marrige...she said she didn't care that i hurt...she needed her friends right now...people who didn't know us or our life. that she didn't need to hear about how i felt - because it was all just what i wanted and she can't give that to me. so she will go and do ... and i need to be fine with that...and that she knows it is a risk - that she may lose me.

{{{{{{{{{{CL}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I feel your pain and see your struggle...part of which, is that you have no leverage, no influence...she isn't allowing yours in herself. I believe you have banked on it--with the belief that if you're more, can do more, be more, she will stop being less...have no reason to do what she's doing right now.

Doesn't work that way, does it? When I say we have manipulative marriages, they don't look or feel that way...but this is the basis, these beliefs, that truly are manipulative. When one spouse stops allowing the influence of the other, then the marriage falls apart.

Examine your beliefs...that your pain matters; that it is all coming from the outside. In the listen and repeat, I try to show this; I am not saying, "You should have said this, this and this"...I am showing you here your power, how to remove manipulation by uncovering reality:

" that she needs her space and as long as i keep bringing this up - she can't be here."

"I hear you choose to not be married because you believe that commitment takes you over, doesn't allow for your space." Remove yourself from her equation, CL...you can't make her do anything--not push her away, draw her back, pull her heartstrings...you never had that power. You believed you did. It is as binding to you as it seems to her. Let that illusion go.

Know her choices are hers alone...as are yours.

"she said she needs to be free to come and go as she pleases"

"I hear you saying you need to move out, for us to divorce, so that you can be free to come and go as you please, is that correct?"

"and that i should do the same"

"I remain committed to our marriage. My choice. Your telling me to choose to leave the marriage, as you are choosing, is abusive."

"and that these things have nothing to do with me..."

"I hear that your choices have nothing to do with me and our marriage."

"...she says she feels horrible...she says it would be easier if i hit her...was mean to her...mistreated her...she knows i have not."

"I hear you are in great pain and believe I am doing this to you, is that correct?"

"but she can't help how she feels. she said she is sad...but i need to muscle up...that if i can't she can't be here.."

"So you're saying you know I'm not doing this to you, that your feelings are your own, yet you are asking me to muscle up as if it will cure your feelings, is that correct? And if I don't do something, you will choose not to be here?"

"I thought i was muscling up...i thought i was toughing this out. she tells me i have not..."

"I hear you telling me I am not the source of your pain, yet I am the cure...by toughening up, is that correct?"

(Stop the abuse...that's your responsibility, CL...she cannot define you, nor you her. You are you...you choose your actions, words, beliefs, feelings and thoughts. Own those. As long as you continue to believe you are the cause, cure and control of what isn't yours...her stuff...then you will hurt a F&&ing lot!)

"she said i was sad" Say, "Ouch! That's abuse." Until she can say, "I believe you are sad right now" then it is...she is defining you. No argument...no, I'm not, I'm happy...stop the abuse. Now.

"or that she misreads me" Get this straight...she's not misreading, she is abusing you. And you reading her is abusive, also. It is disrespectful and harmful.

Did your mother do this? Was it comforting when she would say, "Oh, CL...you're sad. What are you thinking about?" As a child, we do not know to speak our thoughts, feelings and beliefs. As adults, we know the responsibility of doing this for ourselves and others. You're overlapping the two...please stop. Only way to inject respect is to stop what once was a comfort and know it is now destructive.

"and now she wants to go away for weekends...she wants to stay out at friends if she so desires....she just wants to have fun??? she said there is noone else - and she asked why i would think that...i said it is hard to believe that she would do this without cause."

"I do not believe that there is no one else, WW. I know we are capable of having fun, lots of RC, and I have been missing that with you, also. We can have 15 hours a week of UA, spend it dancing, playing darts or pool...(insert your own RC stuff)...because I have come to realize how important that is in our marriage, like you have. If you choose not to do that with your husband, but others, then you are choosing not to be married. I understand."

"I told her i knew about the texts and the phone calls"

When I gave you this O&H statement, it did not have specifics in it. They have no more power in them than not saying them...because it distracts from her choices and actions and leads to this--her trying to fix the source of your pain...texts and phone calls...and not acknowledge her choices. You did this, CL. Not her. "I know you are choosing to contact OM daily" was the key. Not the how's.

Look closely as to why you chose to do this...are you attempting to manipulate her with your pain? Or are you being O&H from pure intent?

"...people who didn't know us or our life."

She wants a do-over, a clean slate...her pain is coming from her and her choices...stop being fodder for her to believe the cause is from the outside and so the cure resides there also. Hand back her choices only. Period.

Hurts like a muther to hear your pain doesn't affect her. That's her truth, not THE truth. You choose to believe that truth. Stop. You're doing that, not her.

"i hate waiting...i hate resenting...and being sad and angry all the time." Are you owning all of this? Are you truly understanding these are your feelings, coming from your beliefs, not her? Anger is a secondary emotion...what is it coming on the heels of? You didn't list it. Tell me what it is...

"but i did not want to cry...like a freaking child." Our pain leads us back to our inner child...and we think and act from that child. Find your tears, know where they are coming from...you have experienced this betrayal before, when you were a child, and are feeling that pain compounded with the present. Do this for yourself. You're worth it.

Did you get the book yet? Boundaries in Marriage? Your self-care has tanked, maybe in retaliation for your focus being back on her, attempting to suck life from a shard of a person...you are full-bodied and brimming with life. Stay here, on you.

We have these slip-backs...where we fall into our old push-pull times...know this is for your own benefit...to see your marriage for what it was on your part...manipulative...and to help you define your new beliefs on what marriage really is, how it can thrive, and begin replacing those old beliefs.

No muscling up or toughening up. You can face your part--it is yours--and change your part, for you. You can't do that when you're focused on her...she is separate and equal. Stop believing her words as your truth and leave them over there, in her own struggle.

Because she is not accepting your influence, you feel you don't matter. Do not base your feelings on her choices. You know you matter. You are as influential as you have always been...you're human. Your very presence on this planet is significant. You matter. Stop abusing yourself by choosing to believe anything else.

In your corner...with 2x4s and truth,

LA

Good stuff LA! I have started to come to a lot of realizations reading your posts. I know that one of my biggest fears has been that WW is not facing the problem, is going to move on, and realize that the same problems arise again. I can't focus on her. I have to let her do whatever she thinks is best for her.

I have to focus on me and MY PART of the marriage. I can't force her to participate. We each see this through our own eyes, and I have to try to stop forcing her to see it through mine...just as I resent when she tries to force me to see it through hers. One thing I HATE is when she says, "This is the best for both of us." I told her yesterday that it hurts me when she says that. What is best for me is to be married to her. I cannot decide what is best for her.

CL, don't know if you caught my update, but I came across a letter where WW said she had done things over the past YEAR that she "was not proud of." When I confronted her, she admitted to flirting with, talking to and have occasional lunches with other men. I just tell you this because I never saw it coming. This has apparently been building for her for a long time.

I also know exactly what you mean about her projecting feelings onto you. WW would say, "Why are you being so nice to me?" Like I am supposed to hate her. I would always remind her that I love her and I love being around her.

Anyway, WW keeps saying she is going to file. We'll see if it happens. I sent her some information about a DIY-D, and she was shocked at how easy it is. I think it made her think a second. I am at a point right now where the ball is in her court. I am going to move on in my life as a better person. (I was going to add something about her, LA, but I realized it's not necessary!)

Good luck amigo! Just know that you ARE strong. Hurt feelings and tears are not a sign of weakness.

Now you know, "best for both of us" is abusive. It is defining you for you...and what is best. Might look to the parental role you may have played. Equal partners means equal ownership. Respect is acknowledging you're both separate, different, and honoring those differences.

You're nowhere near nuts...and finding out what is abusive is important. We had no clue what we were doing was destructive in our marriage.

All great lessons...never leave a relationship without them.

LA

hey bro...i been following your threads but really didnt have anything to add...ill throw this out, because God knows ive been in you place a time or two...

"does the winshiled hit the bug, or does the bug hit the windshield?......either way the bug loses"....

to try and make sense of something that "we" have NO experience in and in the big picture DOSNT make sense, is just self defeating....

ive had to do some soul searching latley on a few personal demons....you are very early on in your sitch, im over 2 1/2 years....

whatever path you chose, just remember, you are responsible ONLY for yourself, not her....sometimes all "we" can do is react to surroundings and "roll with the punches"....

keep your mind clear and when the tears come....let em...its OK!!!

Thanks everyone...this last weekend wrecked me and i am still feeling the effects of it. I have backed off from her considerablely...if only for my own sanity and safety. What she wants from me right now...i just can't give...i feel like she wants everything with no repercussions - that i should have no emotion. She wants to be pals, to just go along happily like this is just the way things are now - and i can not allow it to be so trivial.

I think it was Mulan who said to me early on i have a classic fence sitter on my hands. She wants the best of both worlds. I have given too much and worked too hard in this relationship to allow my boundaries and safety to be stepped on in this way. i am being cordial, respectful and honest - i think thats about the best i can do right now. now i need my space...some distance for perspective and to protect me.

she asked me how i was yesterday morning - I told her i was hurting pretty bad - but working on it. I was actually pretty proud of myself for this very small victory because any other time i would have lied and said i was fine. but my pain is real and it is mine and it is ok.

I had to work late last night at home...so i just went up to my room to get stuff done. When she went to bed she called up to me and asked how i was doing, if i needed anything, and to say goodnight. her mixed messages just kill me...because i have let them and allowed hope to seep in with everyone of them. but i am letting my hope go...my expectations go...this is going to be whatever it is going to be...and it is sad, but i will keep on going and do what i must...i am really in self-preservation mode.

yes...LA i have lost many people in my life...in my childhood, through divorce and death...I own my fears around this and understand where that pain and fear comes from.

I also trusted my w way too much - with me and my heart - i let her in closer then i ever have anyone in my life - i am angry at myself for letting that happen. I should have been more guarded in the beginning - should have had more of a backbone - i was weak in many ways - and yes also parental in many ways. I have a three year old - and when she wants something that she shouldn't have - i parent her...i teach her...and i recognize manipulation forr what it is.

with my w - i did not want to see this behavior - i placated - appeased - let things happen that i shouldn't have allowed because she wanted it that way - and i wanted her to be happy - would do anything at any cost to make her happy. it didn't work...and here we are...yes i have no leverage and no influence...she does as she pleases.

"I also trusted my w way too much - with me and my heart - i let her in closer then i ever have anyone in my life"

This isn't trusting way too much...it is trusting humans. You ventured where you hadn't gone before--your choice to be vulnerable in allowing your need and you're growing from that. Our goal in life isn't to avoid pain, it is to learn to hold it and act anyway.

"i am angry at myself for letting that happen. I should have been more guarded in the beginning - should have had more of a backbone - i was weak in many ways - and yes also parental in many ways. I have a three year old - and when she wants something that she shouldn't have - i parent her...i teach her...and i recognize manipulation forr what it is."

Very difficult for me to say to you not to DJ when your WW is a WS...I asked you to look at before her hurtful choices, at you, for you...so you would know your power, your choices...and that you chose to accommodate from fear, not from her choices. Your own fear. Herein is where you get your true power--knowing your fear of loss, that you were vulnerable and intimate anyway...and celebrating that. Also, where you over-did which is disrespect. Getting the DJs out now is still essential...for Plan A, so that you won't DJ you as you are doing...and not to DJ her.

When we act better than we know how to right now, to be bigger than we are today, we lead ourselves...no distracting comfort required. We become that which we were made as, complete and whole, and show recognition for it.

That's what I'm asking of you, CL. You are clearly capable. Ask yourself...did you ever have leverage? Was leverage what you desired, or was it respect? And were you truly giving it when you over-did?

The new way of living comes from believing new beliefs...I know you're hurting, angry (at yourself and her), and that pain can be blinding. I get that. The difficulty is that you can't reduce the pain to reasonable until you change your belief...yet you can't see that belief while in blinding pain.

You chose to be intimate, to be vulnerable, and in time, you will again. Your choice. Please do not allow your fear to drive your anger, reignite it again and again...it is only fear, a signal, not a directive.

You can do this. As Lost2 reminded you, breathe, breathe, breathe...stretch your body, let it know you're aware, though your emotions may be consuming you; take the time to breathe.

We're here. Please do not DJ yourself by choosing to believe she is doing as she pleases, in a state of joy and wholeness, for she is fractured, addicted and in terrible pain; lost, also. This DJ causes you more anger, striking at yourself, and re-cements your need to manipulate, leverage, control...when you really want to respect, separate and equal, see her new, without DJs...and allow your old to become new.

No bashing, judgment or being wrong...just learning, CL. You're learning. I wrote because of your vulnerable state, I don't want you to take that lesson, to not be vulnerable or as intimate again, to heart...your heart will believe it and invent new ways to keep others from knowing you.

Look how you noticed your own victory in committing to be O&H...when it has been so difficult. You are learning both sides of intimacy...allowing to see and allowing in. Is there any greater lesson? This is how we connect to God and to others, fully, to get to where we are all one.

Hug yourself...tell yourself you are learning and growing, that it can hurt, and please take back your focus from her to you...choosing carefully what you believe from her lips, and owning your own truth right now.

((((CL))))

LA

well i am still here...and feeling strong...making a come back from the weekend.

i got the cell phone bill and looked at the records...no significant phone calls to OP (except for a crap load of texting) until this past Friday 4/21 when they spoke for over an hour at 2:30 in the morning...she alluded to this when i called her on her text messages over the weekend (i didn't know about the calls at the time) - she told me to stop spying on her - or she would leave...always trying to manipulate me with the threat and until now it worked because i was so scared. She said if she wanted to talk to her "friends" at 4am she would...and i guess she is.

i am not scared anymore...i am smart, strong and good, i have support here-great friends, and yes my family. Sturg told me about that beautiful barrel of apples and when i am ready - i will check it out.

i am going to begin really getting my ducks in a row now. Financially and legally. Fortunately custody of my daughter will go to me - i have spoken to my attorney about this...w is already aware of this from our many discussions - i don't think she will fight it... and if she does i am sure i will prevail - also she keeps telling me she needs a break from her.

At this point i really don't know what else to do - i feel like i am being played...she is hurting - i know - and scared about $$$ and has made it clear she is here right now because she doesn't know where else to go. but she is not doing the work to reconcile...i have been reading, going to counseling, talking it out here, working hard on me and my issues...getting a grip on where we got lost and truly trying to do right.

I am glad i went into self preservation mode today...

i am taking care of me and D and for the rest of it - i think it is a shame that w has allowed this to happen. but i see the manipulation and can not be a part of it anymore.

i think it is time for plan b

"...i am smart, strong and good," Yes, you are...now stop telling WW about your ducks...just get them in a row, but do not advertise anything duck-related along the way.

And remember, your WW can't get to the point of working on reconciliation because she hasn't admitted to herself that she is costing herself the marriage through her own choice of being in an EA...as long as she sees OM as "friends" then she can't reconcile. Keep that in mind when her fear elevates past the top of her head and she begins making overtures about working on the marriage.

Your choice on plans.

Behind you when your modes change, up or down,

LA

well...her job ends in june and she is scared she won't be able to support herself...at this point that is what is keeping her here i am certain. After everything is set i will ask her to start looking for and apartment...or whatever. I wanted this to work so badly - but now i see no other choice but for me to "duck up" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yes she may get sooooo scared that she decides to work on us...but i am not counting on it...and actually don't know that i want to live always looking over my shoulder...hey it is nice to have choices...options - finally i see them. i think this last weekend was my big last stand - in trying to even speak with her with some honesty.

i have not told her about the ducks...i have been making many small preperations - but now i feel certain i must start taking bigger steps to secure my future.

thanks for being with my LA on my own little roller coaster.

i am also thinking...that the tears on thursday night were much more significant than i first believed - perhaps it went PA - who knows...now i don't really care to know - just need to prepare for the worst...and i think she is going to dish it up.