I remember, CL...repeating your past isn't learning from it. Now you know what you didn't then...and you can see how not to have this last for 8 months.

Write the Plan B letter. Stop trying to make her different, to own her stuff...even move it. Think in symbols, about your choices, your self...

That will make this different.

Waiting for her to take action doesn't make sense to me right now. You could be boxing now...respectfully, not as owning her stuff...but yours.

Breathe deeply, and a lot. Center yourself. Know your intent. It matters.

You matter.

LA

thanks LA - I feel better then i have in a month and a half...because i am taking action on my behalf...i have worried about her for so long that it was crazy. i do matter and so does D.

i feel incredibly centered and clearer then i have in months...i have a path and i can see a light...my lines are clear.

i will start the plan b letter today...
i promised my D this morning before all of this that i would take her out this afternoon...should i go have fun with her - or should i stick around the house?

Hmmm...decisions, decisions...

This month, have you been keeping your promises to DD regularly? I ask because keeping promises is good...unless taken to an extreme. Respecting your daughter is part of this, too...you can change plans, acknowledge her feelings and remain respectful.

Your choice.

What do you think? What if neither choice was "wrong", just a choice? What would you do?

LA

well...it has been alot of doom and gloom at home...so i have been taking her out to the park and playground etc...nothing extreme...just normal good stuff. we went out - we both needed it rather than sitting around here. W has not left her room...probably waiting for tomorrow when she has a ride and somewhere to go. we will see...neither choice was wrong,,,just needed a little change of venue rather then waiting for something that wasn't going to happen.

What are you waiting for to happen?

What are your choices and what are you sure of doing with them?

Why is your power in her hands? I think I missed something. I napped. Changed my venue...like you did.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

hey a nap - sounds good!
powers not in her hands - in fact i feel it firmly in mine. i just didn't feel like sitting here with the vibe that was in the house. the last i saw was her back to me - just sitting staring out the window...and it was cold, empty and weighty - she shows nothing - its kind of creepy if you know what i mean. i feel good - said my piece - what i needed to say 2 weeks ago but was too afraid to say.

i was waiting for her to make a move - fully expected she would go...she didn't....in fact she did laundry and took out the trash. i don't get it?

CL...

Being WW is living in fantasy...why are you looking for logic and reality? If she can do laundry and take out trash, she is still part of the family, still part of the home that was hers, still there means she hasn't given up everything for a fantasy.

Which is why I'm asking you to act in reality, stay in reality and not look to her to be what she is not...in reality.

When I was wayward, I was cold inside, empty and so full of sorrow, confusion, longing and self-hatred, I was weighty. A fat ghost. Without entitlement, resentment and lack of respect, you can't stay wayward. A's turn our lives inside out...and we see parts of ourselves we didn't know was possible...all the time...in us. You're looking at the seams of your wife. Stop looking.

LA

yeah - i have stopped -
she never came out of her room - last night or this morning except to take a shower...until her ride showed up at 11:30 am she called out to me that she was leaving - now it is 9pm and i don'r expect her back...and i don't want her to come back...it is all too confusing for d and me.
her seams are fraid and undependable My D and I went out with hiking today with some friends and i watched this innocent little child playing with the other kids and i can not for the life of me imagine ditching her like this...i would do anything to make sure she was safe and happy in the world. I am ashamed at w's behavior...and her neglect...her fantasy world is weak and sad.

hey bro...

i been following your sitch, but you are in great company and i had nothing to add except this...i was watching a movie yesterday, "oh brother, where art thou"...and one thing george clooney's charactor said regarding a love relationship...

"Only a fool will look for logic in the chambers of the heart"....makes perfect sense when you try and figure out your W's perspective....

YOU CANT!!!

hang in there for your kid....sounds like your doing that!!

Hey Sturg...great movie and a great quote! thanks.
she showed up at the house around 10:30pm...i really thought she would not come home. hoped is probably more like it - so i would have something to hang my hat on - something definitive...but this morning she greeted me with a happy good morning and business as usual. I think it is going to be harder to for her to go then i anticipated. In all of our past discussions she said she was going to go - that if i pushed her she would leave...now that i want her to go - and have told her to go - she is just going to hunker down. I feel like i am dealing with a 13 year old girl - defiant and selfish. Even her friends told me she was looking for any excuse to get out...but she keeps on coming back.

LA you were right about the immediate consequences...i have given her a deadline and if it is not met...then i am going to have to pack her up. Tell me legally can i do this this - if both of our names are on the deed to the house.
i contacted attorney about having a quick deed drawn up - but she would have to sign it.

Hey CL...I've been keeping up with you too. It seems as though you are doing a lot better, but you have to stand your ground. If you tell her "Don't go or else" you have to put some actions behind those words...otherwise, she will continue to be defiant and disrespectful. You have said before that her uncertain employment status is what is keeping her around. I would venture to say that is the reason she won't leave.

You have to be strong. The only times I have felt really good is when I have felt in control of my life. Last weekend, I told WW that I didn't want to talk to her/see her anymore. We had completed a lot of the D paperwork, and just had to fulfill business obligations. On Tuesday, she kept trying to call me, but I wouldn't talk. This destroyed her.

Finally, I accepted her call and she told me that her friend "asked her to leave." She wouldn't tell me why, but I am sure the friend disapproved of her behavior.

I am moving into a new apartment next weekend, but she asked if I could move in with a friend until my apartment was ready. I told her no, and asked her if that was it. She said yes so I said goodbye (she was noticeably upset). I started thinking about it, and took the focus off of me for one second...and I let her move back in.

Now she is constantly disrespecting me by staying out with him all night, and stayed away all weekend. Even though we are getting divorced, I still think this is the ultimate disrespect. She has broken my heart. To be honest, though, I actually prefer her being gone, and wish she wasn't going to be around for the next couple of days. All I have to do is get through Thursday.

As much as I love her, I don't know if I could ever take her back now. There is only so much you can take. My work has suffered tremendously because of this. I need peace of mind, and I can only do it once I move on.

So hang in there CL. Be strong. No matter how weak you feel, don't show it. If you can't take it, get away. Focus on you. You are only responsible for your choices. If you tell her that you will kick her out because of her choices, and she continues to do them, then she chose to be kicked out...not you.

Good luck. You sound so much further along than me. Keep up the improvement.

Lost

Hey Lost - I am glad to hear from you - I was wondering what was going on with your situation. Thursday will be here before you know it...hang tough. Like you i feel much better when i am not in her presence and fortunately i no longer feel heart broken and sad...not even angry. I just want to move on with my life.

Yeah - you know i was really REALLY surprised she came home last night. I fully expected she would not - and actually was looking forward to it - thought it might finally be over. But i guess that was a pipe dream. I gave her an out and she didn't take it.

She never really responded to the ultimatum...i gave "Commit or Go" - Now i don't think i could commit to anything - i don't trust her.
I am going to trade in the car this week...get her to sign off on that deed and i guess lease something of my own...finally - i hated that car <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Again I don 't think i can kick her out - with her name on the house too. Anyone know what my legal options are here? Any suggestions of what i can do if i can't make her go?

CL,

I wish I could tell you legally what you can do...or not do. I know of many people who have boxed up their WS's possessions and put them on the driveway...front lawn...of course, I don't hear about them going to jail.

I was asking you to do something...when she left yesterday morning, for you to be lining the driveway with her stuff when she caught her ride...that would have been the time. "You agreed to continue your A...so you're leaving."

Then she could chose to go off to lunch with OP or not, right? Her choices.

Fear holds you. You would not be destroying her property (it's all marital property) and it would technically be still on your property.

Find out your legal options...and the gray part of what isn't addressed...like what I said. If cops show up, explain that you had a verbal contract with your WW...if she chose to continue seeing OP, then she would move out. You're moving her out.

That's all I got. You have power of choice...half the marriage...you can do this...and no, don't judge WW's choices to give up DD...celebrate your own.

LA

absolutely...i am celebrating. now that i am no longer sad and hurt by ww - my D and I enjoy everyday we have...we laugh, we cook, we play, i teach her stuff...and it feels really good to have peace - the less ww is here the better we both feel.

Tell me though - do you have any good input on what I tell D when she asks where mama is - or if she is coming home? I always say she is at work or with friends. On sunday when she asked me - i told her that i know mama doesn't spend very much time with us any more...and that it is ok if d feels sad...and she just nodded. and i told her i will never leave her alone, etc...i am careful not to say anything negative to her...

W called me today...i didn't pick up...so she called like 6 more times...she has to work tonight...blahblah - i am sure she does have to work late - this is normal on this night...BUT then she kicks in with how was my day, am i ok, what am i cooking for dinner, she wished she was home for it and could i save her some...i'm just thinkin to myself "this chick is whacked" why are you calling me "we aren't in a relationship" right?

Now i am not worrying about whats going on with her - i just think she is whacked!

anyway - attorney is drawing up quick deed...i will present to her when i have it in my hands...should ne later this week. I honestly think she believes i will take no action.

ok so you folks have to know I am a writer/editor by profession...so i suspect that is why i detail all events...it is my way of bearing witness to the insanity. and I do believe it has helped me deal with this...it is like a journal that talks back...what an amazing thing the internet is.

So if i post alot about her actions...that is the way my brain processes - reporting behavior...actions and then allowing my brain to make sense of things.

that being said - this morning wife called me in to the bathroom this morning and thanked me profusely for cooking dinner last night and leaving her a plate for when she got home from work last night. She was then sweet sweet sweet and chatty all the way into work this morning - then had the guts to ask me to go to the store for her to pick up some things for her - made a list (something she used to do - with little love messages on it for me in the past) This one had a little picture drawn on it with flowers??? needless to say i won't be going to the store.

I know I shouldn't focus on what she is up to - but what the **** is she up to...

Just a little warning for our dear writer/editor...

"I know I shouldn't focus on what she is up to - but what the **** is she up to..." This is very close to what your WW thinks, "I know I shouldn't be focusing on myself and OM; I should be focusing on my marriage and child...but..."

Why do I say that? To eliminate the buts from your life right now. Know you give yourself permission, are fed by and have a payoff in doing this...yeahbut...shoot it. You would shoot one of your writers for it.

LOL

And yes, you got the reporting down...laying the world down on paper, within your control, your grasp, defining your reality...which remains outside of your control...

You matter more. You just do. You are the protagonist of your life. Live that. Get to know yourself, CL...you're a great read.

Too much time on the antagonist leaves the reader hungry for connection.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When your WW "kicks in with" what do you say? Did you pick up after six attempts or was this from voicemail?

LA

Hey LA - thanks for understanding the writer in me...i can't help it.

after the 6th attempt i picked up. when she kicked in with the how was my day crap... - i said fine - normal...i just stay neutral and don't give away the farm so to speak...

well look at that she just called me just now...i am in my office...apparently she called my cell phone - didn't get me and just called my desk where i unknowingly picked up...this is the most "chasing" she has done in 2 months...

anyway - again with just checking in to see how your day went... i said i had to go i have a deadline and have to work from home tonight to meet it - quick and neutral.

she said she was sorry that my day was a tough one - and wanted to know about dinner - what we wanted to do. i told her what D and I were doing - she asked if there was anything left would i save her some. yep - gotta go and get this done...good luck with your work.

Interesting...like you're showing but not telling, huh?

Remind you of something?

LOL

I think you've stated and aren't repeating...so I'm good with your plan. Wish you could give her phone a distinctive ring on yours!

(Coincidentally, I am editing a novel for someone and for the first time in my life, had to say, "You're showing too much and telling too little." I didn't think that was possible...anything to an extreme...)

LA

oh yeah....what kind of novel? anything is possible with writers...i mean it is crazy some of the stuff i have seen.

anyway - very perceptive of you - now we are both doing the same dance eh? Unfortunately she has brought me down to her level - her dance - everything is her way by the way - i am pretty sick of that....i cherished her - and really loved and worked hard - romanced her etc - we had a great friendship, great sex, a great future , a great kid - and now i don't want to invest anything else -now i feel stronger, safer, more confident and more at peace by myself.

you were right about that karmic reap what you sow thing - that perhaps i expected it to come back from her...thems aren't the rules are they <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> opps.

Modern chick lit...only with class...less brass...

I love that crazy stuff...takes one to know one...

LOL

Not perceptive of me, CL...it WAS me...and I was you and your WW...honestly...I truly get this...

Have a question for you:

"Unfortunately she has brought me down to her level - her dance - everything is her way by the way" If this were truly possible, if we could be that powerful to pull others down, lift them up, push them away, make them pay...if we were that powerful...do you think we could have existed longer than a few minutes on this earth?

Because that isn't possible...Cain killed Abel. It isn't possible by God's design of humans...she cannot do that to you and you cannot do that to her...as long as you believe it is possible, then you are choosing to be powerless, a victim...when you are not. You're a whole person, with complete choice...you create your own resentments for a reason...only you know your payoff...and you did this your whole life...

Your view is that her A is unwarranted...and you're correct. Whether you loved her well and mightily, was a perfect husband or a slouch...her A is unwarranted. Can't be anything but a choice she makes...independent of you.

Sounds like you're having a difficult time reconciling this with yourself...that her A isn't about you at all. Would that hurt WORSE than all that effort you see to bring you down, make you do her dance, everything her way...or the total lack of effort it takes to not have you in the equation at all?

You are safer because you are beginning to destroy that fatal enmeshment and see yourself differently. That won't last if you continue to choose the perspective you stated above. Can't last, because disrespect remains...outward and inward, when you give yourself license to do it at all.

Now...casual as you are with your karmic reap what you sow thing...where's your belief? You said, perhaps I expected...did you or didn't you? See, if you have the belief (and read 1woundedheart's thread today for my full blast of this)...it's in the bible in Galatians....

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Is that where you got this idea? That you give to get, tit for tat, punish to stop harm, be kind to get kindness...all that stuff?

Important question...those are not rules...it would be your belief that is the rule...not your rule, the one you chose, interpreted and decided to live by...and now, resent by.

In your corner...and stalking you if you DARE to run away...

:::insert fading trail of evil laughter with a snort at the end here::::

LA