Hi everyone,

I am new here, and have stumbled across this website. I couldnt take my eyes off of it anymore, it explained so much, but everything seems too late. I will try to explain my situation as short as possible.

During my marriage, my husband was gone a lot and especially in the last years before the "incident" we had lots of problems, job, money, kids...plus he was only home on the weekends. I felt lonely and met someone online, yes you all know what happened, i fell in love, cause of the countless hours i spent talking to that guy there. I told my husband very early that i had fallen in love with someone online, and he cut me off from the guy, i missed that guy a lot and once snuck a phone call in to him, guess that threw me back.

After 3 months of missing him, and begging my husband to let me have contact to no avail, i blackmailed my husband into letting me have contact again, i told him i would leave him, if i wouldnt get to keep the guy as a friend. Grave mistake on both our parts..because he agreed. Of course my feelings for him continued, even though our online relatioship was never the same again.


After about 6 months of this, my husband couldnt stand me loving someone else, and spending so much time with that guy, and he left to Kuwait to work there. My husband really tried during the time he was still here, he was thoughtful and understanding, held me when i cried because of that other guy when i wasnt allowed to have contact. My husband also had a pretty aggressive temper, not towards me, but some walls in doors still remind me of this time back then.

Well he left and i was finally "free", no more pressure or anything, but he continued with the pressure with up to 60 emails a day, up until to the point where i told him i dont love him anymore, and he should find someone new and get on with his life.

I never got a divorce, he was still supporting me, and we still talked daily, even though a lot of these conversations were very draining. I withdrew from my husband more and more. After a while my husband met someone that comforted him in that rough time, and yes over time a love developed between them. Then my husband came home for christmas for a visit, and i saw a loving and caring man, after he left again i started missing him terribly, and i broke off of all contact to the other man 2 1/2 months later. I wanted to tell my husband that i still loved him, but couldnt bring myself to tell him online.

He came for another visit in may last year and thats when i told him, i had no idea that by now he was in love with this other woman, so he didnt tell me that he loved me back. Guess he was still confused because a day later he told me he loved me on the phone, and we "tried" having a relationship again, which was of course impossible, i pushed him into leaving her, which he said he did after a while, he even had me come to kuwait in august for a visit so he could see it in my eyes. But i felt there was something between us. I tried talking to him, but he didnt want to talk about the past. I left again and felt certain that i would loose him.

In October then he told me that he didnt love me anymore, only as the mother of his children. I was devastated, and tried talking to him, but again he blocked everything, telling me needs time, his head is like in a blender...etc. In november i talked to him on the phone, and i broke down, he was afraid i could do something to myself and told me that he loved me, i believed him. Only to find out 3 weeks later when i called him and heard a female voice in the background saying "you are a player!" that he was with her all along, the whole time since may, even though he denied it all this time. He said he would never lie to me again, by telling me that he loves me.

I had a pretty bad nervous breakdown at x-mas last year at my parents house and they wouldnt to send me to a hospital, my husband had me and the kids come here to kuwait instead. He told my family that she would leave him and that he would take care of me and get an apartment for all of us. Now i am here, he lives with her, he is not leaving her, so i told him i would leave, and in order to get over him i need to break off all contact. He was said and said that i am leaving him again, and that i am giving up too easily.

He hardly ever talks to me or comes by, i guess he doesnt want to be confronted by me, his girlfriend threatens to leave him all the time, cause she cant stand him being here, and me being in the same town. I guess she is scared, keeps saying you belong to your family, she sent me a message on my phone, apologizing what she has done to the kids and me and that she will give back what she has borrowed, but she never follows through, so i never answered her. My husband says he dont know if the relationship to her is a lasting one and that he wants to keep me as a friend, but then why did he bring me here? Why is he saying i am leaving him again, thati am giving up too easily, he says he dont want to give me false hopes.
Talking seems to do nothing, he says he will not have anyone tell him what to do. When i want to leave, he uses all sorts of things to push the date out that i am flying back home.

I love him dearly, and i do want him back, but i also know this cannot continue, does anyone have an idea how i can reach him? I am afraid since we have been living apart for 2 years now, that if i leave this will be the end of it. We always had contact, he knows i would break all contact to him, and i do know it hurts him. I need answers, and i need them quickly. Please, i want to save my marriage. Is there even anything left to safe? After such a long time, after so much that has happened?

Thank you for reading,

Daggi

Hello,

i had posted above text in the plan a/plan b section and someone suggested i should post in the general question forum to get some help, so here i am.

Last night i also had a talk with my husband, i told him that i understand his feelings for her, that i know i didnt pay attention to his needs in our marriage. And that i walked all over his feelings during my affair. That if we were to get back together, it would not be how it was in the past, that i would be paying attention to his needs. I told him the door is open, should he ever want back, and that i am "going through" all of this for him and our marriage. I also told him, that she would have most likely already given up on him, had the situation been reversed.

Here are the things that he said: He said that if he didnt care he wouldnt have brought me here, that he would stay longer if i wouldnt mentally bash him all the time. That in our marriage was a lot that he didnt like. That he is not the same person that he was when he got here, people at work have told him that, he applied 11 times for a better position but everytime someone else gets picked, usually someone that has been with the firm less time than him. (He used to be a go-getter, got any job he wanted) He said he is not as strong anymore, that he lost what he had.

That he lives day to day, he is not making any decisions, does what he wants to do or feels like doing at the moment. When i told him, if you are happy with her, then stay with her, i want you to be happy. He says ist not that he is happy and its not about that, that he just does what he wants.

He also said that he knows our marriage would be different than before, if we would get back together again. I told him, if i would leave if wouldnt be because i give up on our marriage, but because i just couldnt deal with the situation that i am in over here anymore. Then i said i think it would hurt you if i left, if it didnt, it wouldnt make no sense anymore anyways, and then i could leave right now. Then he said, first you say one thing, then another. I asked what he meant and he said, first you say you will try to hold out, then you say you are leaving right now. He got up and left the room (before he was lying on the bed, the only place to sit here and during our conversation he first sat, than later on laid down and pulled my to his chest and he was hugging me as we talked). He went to the bathroom to fix a light, he asked for a screw and i brought it to him, i then told him i am not leaving right now, that i meant that i could go if it wouldnt make a difference to him anymore. He kept insisting i meant it differently.

Then he said: The day before he was here, i was mentally downing him very badly, i told him i was sorry, that i was just anxious to talk to him (her was here for about 15 mins that day, he seemed agitated and i reacted cold and somewhat angry with him, he had mentioned that my mom had called him and asked for the money he owed, he was pissed at her and said next time she calls he would hang up on her) I told him that this is not my fault and he shouldt let it out on me. He said he wasnt.

Today he also told my my sister contacted him, and asked if she had contacted me, i said no. (i was a bit thrown off when he asked, because he had changed the subject when i was in the middle of letting him know that i understood how he felt) He said he just wanted to say it before he forgets about it. And he said, guess everyone just talks to me about the bills now. (i told my family to go to him, cause i have no money anyways and all i do is forward the messages anyways)

He says he dont want to give me false hopes, and i guess the reason why he has gotten less and less affectionate over time, is to not give me any false hopes. He seemed so sweet when he was sick, like he sort of "needed" me, held me for a long time, and kissed me on the lips over and over again, now its short one sided hugs with a kiss on the cheek, or nothing at all.

Things seem to be getting worse between us, and i dont know what to do anymore, i dont want to make any more mistakes. What do i tell him? Is is completely hopeless now? I have been trying to show concern for him the past week, instead of whining about my own situation. He called me once during that time, to see how i was doing, we had a normal conversation, about his job, his sickdays and his pay, even a fly that was in the truck he was working on. When he couldnt think of anything else to say, he said, well, guess i let you go, have a nice day, i wished him the same and we hung up. I have not been contacting him, unless i needed something (i am dependant on him in this country)

He always makes such a sad face when we talk about anything that has to do with us, and he looks away a lot. Does that mean there is no hope? I asked him last night if he wants a divorce, and he said he asked asked for one yet. And i said thats not what i asked, and he said "no", i havent made a decision. He seems to be drifting further and further from me, how can i stop this? I try not to hang around him too much. Like in the store, i usually walk ahead getting things, to give him some space, then he wonders where i ran off to. Or when he writes a message to my phone and if i dont reply (cause i didnt hear it, or i am just frustrated or angry at the time) then he says you didnt even acknowledge my message, or you didnt apologize or thank me etc. I guess i have to think about every word i say, every step i take, i dont want to come across as being to attached, but i also dont want him to think i dont care anymore. How do i find the middle way, if i get too close, he backs off.

He seems so down, so unhappy, so lost, so depressed? most the time. Nothing is good in his life, complains to me about her, about his job, about his money situation. He is not happy then why is he here in this country, at this job, with her? He does say he loves her. He seems to need someone to help him find himself again...i dont know. But at the same time he always says, he deals with things on his own.

I also told him i feel guilty for bringing the kids here into this situation, and he said he is the one that brought us here. I said, i could have stayed back home and gotten help, he said, no you all didnt have a choice. And i said i could have decided against coming, then he said, well the kids would have come anyways. I also said, had i known that this is how it would be here, i probably wouldnt have come. And he said he already got mad at his girlfriend for talking to me before i came here, telling me that she would be gone when i got here, he read part of the conversation that her and me had, and got so pissed off reading it, that he never finished reading it. I also told him, you had told my sister on the phone, that you would take care of me, that you would get an apartment for all of us (including him) and that his girlfriend was going to leave anyways. He know denies ever having said that, but i am 100% sure, that he said that, and i told him that, he got angry and said, no, he never said that. He only told me that i should think positive, and with that he meant a positive outlook on life, not our marriage. He also said that when he told me that i give up too easy (when we talked about me leaving over a week ago), that he didnt mean our marriage, but life in general, and i told him, at that time we werent talking about life in general, we were talking about me leaving and breaking all contact and getting a divorce. Seems like i misunderstand everything he says, and he dont explain the things he says when he says them, later on when i ask, the explanation is something completely different than how i understood it.

Sorry for rambling on like this, things that he said just kept coming to me as i wrote this. I just want that whoever reads this, gets as much of the full picture as possible. Thank you for taking the time to read it all.

Daggi

Are you still in Kuwait? Is your husband military, KBR, Halliburton or contractor? Do you live in Kuwait City or Ahmadi or the Neutral Zone?

You said your H hardly ever comes by. Where does he spend his time?

Have you studied up on Plan A? Have you read Surviving an Affair? There are a couple of books recommended here and I suggest you get family or friend to buy them immediately and DHL them to you in Kuwait.

Does your husband have to do any work in "North Kuwait"? That is very stressful. Been there.

hi traicionado

Yes, he is still in kuwait, he is a civilian contractor fixing military vehicles. We do live in Al Mangaf, not sure what the neutral zone is.

My husband works 12 hour-shifts, he is tired all the time, at least he says so. He does live with her, still has his own place (apartment he shared with a co-worker paid by the firm) and she still has her own apartment as well. But i know they pretty much spend all their time together at either place.

when we first got here, he spend more time with us, then he said he got the feeling i got too "attached", after i told him i dont want him to sleep with me (which he still did with me at the time) because he does it to make me feel better, and he said no, he enjoys being with me. Then the time that he spent with the kids and me got less, but i must say it was very stressful for him to be with us, because i was very depressed and the kids just didnt want to be in this country period.

when we first got into this apartment that we are living in now, he spent about 12 hours here the first day, it was nice, we talked about all sorts of stuff, but not about us. But of course i had to start "talking" to him all the time after that, and he came by less and less. I only came across this website about 1 week ago, and finally realized i did everything to make him run back to her.

I read up on plan A, but he is absolutely not willing to work on our marriage or leave the other woman right now, says he lives day by day. And has so since may last year. Since he does come by so little right now, i dont know how i should do plan A, and if it would even have a chance of working. I know he is pretty down about a lot of things in his life..especially his job situation. He has told me a lot of things that bother him with the other woman, i used to think it was just to calm me down, i dont know why he would tell me these things. About a week ago, when he was sick, he told me on the phone, that she had woken him up in the middle of the night because she was hungry, and wouldnt let him sleep anymore, and that he got angry with her.

I also got a message on my cell a day later i think from her, saying she is sorry for what she did to the kids and me, and that she will give back what she borrowed. Of course she didnt mean that, she has been saying things like that to him and me, for a long time. I have the feeling he is not really happy with her either, even though he loves her.

I wish someone in my family could send me a book, the only mailing address i have over here, is through his APO address with the military. And the janitor of the place i live in with the kids, gave us the wrong address, i am not sure of my own address, and i dont know how i can find out, since the janitor dont speak any english, and i am not sure whom i could ask about that.

My husband works in one of the military camps they have here, Camp Araj- something ...not sure how it is spelled...but its not camp Doha, that much i know for sure.

Will read into surviving an affair again, i know i read it, but dont remember what exactly it is that stands there.

How long have you worked in Kuwait? I think a 12 hour job like this, with only one day off, does burn everyone out sooner or later. He just seems pretty depressed, but very unwilling to change anything in his situation... Would like to see the old H that he was before, not like he was with me, but the person he was before, strong, selfconfident...he seems so lost, just wish i could help him...

Daggi,

Welcome to MB. I just found out today my cousin may be going to Kuwait to work for a couple of weeks. What a small world. Forgive my lack of geography of your area, I just know he is going to that country but not where. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Anyways, your story stated something interesting. The WS says he does not want anyone to tell him what t/d and he is doing what he wants. Yet by doing this he has been denied promotions, estranged his family and friends, not been happy and abandoned his family.

Tell him the above and then ask him if he is doing what he wants, why isn't he happy? Then let him know if you not happy or safe there.

Next concentrate on what you can do for your family. Can you move back to your home area and make it financially if he does the worst thing financially and cuts you off? Plan for the worst. See if you can make it because it doesn't sound like you are living in a safe place.

Btw, his statement that he would bring the children to this foreign country w/o you sounds ludicrious at the very least.

So don't let his babble guide your decision making. You both were wrong for each having an A but in this case, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Just like drinking to be drunk with him doesn't help a drunk stop drinking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

See if you can order Surviving an affair on the internet. Mail it to a safe address.

take care,
L.

hello Orchid,

he is just in a strange kind of mood i guess, like i said i get the impression he is depressed. He does not want to think about the future, doesnt know what it will bring, he lives day by day, and takes it as it comes.

I sort of talked with him yesterday about him being happy or not, because i told him i want him to be happy, and if he isnt happy with me, then i want him him to be happy with someone else. When i say things like that to him, he says things like, who says i am happy...etc, i asked him then too, why stay in a situation that doesnt make you happy, that doesnt make any sense. But thats when usually silence sets in.

he also has severe money problems, even though he is earning quite a nice paycheck over here, he will not tell me what caused him to have all the bills...or is it one major one he is paying off..i dont know. He wont say, he does say that he has no money, even his car got repoed, cause he couldnt pay it anymore, because of that "other thing he has to pay". He claimed months ago it was doctors bills, and that it was like 3.000 dollars, but that would have been long paid off by now. Everything just seems to have grown way over his head. But he wont let me help him in any way, does not want me to know anything about it.

He knows i am not happy here, the thing about being safe, i dont think it is not safe being here, things are pretty normal. Back in december when he decided to have us brought over here, was because my mother wanted to take me to a mental hospital because i couldnt deal with the situation anymore. Had i stayed and went to that hospital, the kids would have ended up in a place where kids go that have no parents or a foster home or something like that, because noone in my family would have taken the kids for the time i would have been in the hospital, my husband didnt want that, so he wouldnt have gotten the kids anyways.

I could move back home, i would have to start from scratch, as when i left home, i left everything behind, he said he would have ppl come by and pack up our things, have it taken into storage, but he hasnt done any of this, the rent hasnt been paid on the apartment since december. (I have never worked during our marriage, we both wanted it that way, he always provided and still does). My daughters friend which lives next door to where we used to live, said there are notices on the door by now, i am guessing very soon they will clear that apartment and everything we had will be lost. If i go back now, i dont have the money to pay the bills that were never paid. I dont know if i could go to jail for that, since most bills are in both of our names. But even if i wouldnt be held responsible for them (which i doubt, since he is out of country, and i would be right there) i would have to start from scratch, the only thing i own is a suitcase with clothing for 6 days. I would have to get on welfare, so i could somehow get help for my depression first, find a job, an apartment..etc. But i am prepared for this, i was very close to leaving a couple weeks ago, but then he seemed so sad, and we talked..and he said some things, that made me rethink... yesterday he told me he meant those things completely differently.

i am afraid, that if i were to leave, he would further get into this depression of whatever it is he is in, let himself fall further and give up on everything including himself. He just isnt the man he used to be, his girlfriend doesnt even know the actual person that he is. He seems so much in need of love...so much in need of a hand that reaches out to him, but he wont let me be that person. He says he dont want to hurt me, he doesnt want to give me false hopes. I think he is getting more and more used to the fact, that sooner or later i will be leaving him and he is detaching from me, and is falling further down the spiral.

I love this man with all my heart, and i do want my marriage back, but what hurts really bad and what i truely want more than anything right now, is that he will be the man he was before. It hurts me to see him like this. He just lives his lives like every day, does normal things, but the actual problems are eating him up inside, and he is overwhelmed by them. At least this is the impression i have.

The problem i have with getting any books here is, a) i dont have any money.. b) i dont know anyone here other than my husband, so there is noone else that i could use the address from.

Daggi-

Okay, here's what I'm seeing. TOO MUCH relationship talk when he's over at your house. It's too much pressure on a Wayward Spouse, they don't want to deal with it.

Read up on Plan A, be pleasant and loving toward him when he does come around. Go to the Questionnaire portion of this website and download/print the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. Make an educated guess as to what his emotional needs are and try to fill the top three as much as possible.

I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but your Emotional Affair with this Other Man online, was just as damaging to your marriage as his current Physical Affair is right now.

There is no real difference between the 2 in my opinion.

You need to follow the MB plan though, it's obvious that neither of you were getting your Emotional needs met.

You need to apologize, in no uncertain terms, for what you did. Tell him that you are very sorry that you had this inappropriate relationship with the OM and that you would like the chance to make it up to him.

Then drop all relationship talk and just be loving to him and try to fill his emotional needs (We're forgetting about your EN's for the moment, he's unable to fill them).

You have to make your marriage a viable alternative to the affair he's having.

Get "Surviving An Affair" and "His Needs/Her Needs" both by Dr. Willard Harley. And start studying up. Then you're going to need to EXPOSE this affair.

Does your Wayward Husband work with this woman?? If so, you need to add his boss to your list of people that you will be exposing to.

Make a list:

His parents
His siblings
Your Family
His Friends
His Work
Her Parents
Her Siblings

Is she married?? If so, add:
Her husband to the list.

Do some research and find out the information on the people you need to contact.

Exposure is an essential part of Plan A. But FIRST you must Plan A the heck out of him, while you are gathering your information.

DO NOT TELL HIM THAT YOU ARE GOING TO EXPOSE HIS AFFAIR!!!!!!!!

Best Wishes and God Bless,

-Caren

Edited to say: Please Read this link: Exposure 101

Daggi, I can't imagine how scared and sad you and the children must be in that country with no one, not even WH to count on.

Your WH has now has you trapped it seems, but there is a way out.


I know you don't which way to turn, if I was in your shoes, I would probably feel the same way.
But your WH is torturing you by keeping you there, all a while seeing OW.

I'm gonna try to get Mortarman over here to help you. I believe he can give you the best advice possible.


Lady

Caren, you gave her superb advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

hello Caren and MelodyLane,

thank you so much for all your help and support, i cant thank you enough for everything. I am so glad i finally found a place where i can get true help, instead of hearing from people, just leave him, get a divorce and forget about him.

I know that my emotional affair was just as bad as the one he is having right now, i am fully aware of this, and he has also told me that noone would ever understand how he felt back then, and how much it hurt, and that he has no pride anymore now. He seems to still have not gotten over this, he seems to be a shell of his former self.

I have apologized to him many times, and have told him i will do whatever it takes to make it up to him, he could control whatever he wanted, i would even never get online again, if thats what it would take, but at thát time he was already emotionally attached to the other woman, which comforted him back then when i did that to him. So he was not open to anything i said to him then. He just told me he didnt care anymore about what happened back then, its over and done with.

With exposing, this is a problem, for one we are isolated here in kuwait, no family or friends from back where we used to live, the people around here, his friends, only know the OW, they know them as a couple. My family and his family that i have contact to, already know about everything. He does not talk to anyone in his or my family, except for when its about money he owes my mother, or when my sister writes him emails, bout bills he still gets back home. I dont know any of his friends here, his best friend, i met back in august, (not knowing at the time my WH was still with the OW) of course he didnt say anything to me about that, they stick together like glue, because his best friend, is in a relationship with the best friend of my WH's girlfriend.

I do not know where my husband works, i have no phone numbers, nor do i know who his boss is. I just didnt care about any of these things when he came over here to work, i never asked. And when i was interested...he wasnt telling me anything anymore. He has a complete life over here, that i know very little about.

You said to research and find out info on the people to contact, how did you mean that? What people?

I also know i need to lay off the relationship talk, its just hard when i see him so little, and then to just forget it all. It's also hard because i dont really have anyone to talk to about all of this, and i dont want to discuss this with my children. They already know WAY too much, and when they do come to me and want to talk about it, i do... but i dont want to drag them into any further than neccessary.

Thank you both soooo much for all your help, i already feel so much better, knowing that i am not alone anymore. I dont feel so helpless anymore, there are things i can do to try to save my marriage. It isnt all lost yet. Thank you very very much.

forgot something, the OW is married, but her husband is still back in the phillipines (she is from the phillipines, been living in kuwait since 2000). She isnt divorced, but she is separated from her husband. WH said that her husband is trying to win her back, but he doesnt get involved in her business, that would be up to her, but he also knows that OW is head over heels for him, and he dont have to worry about her leaving him, at least not for her husband.

So i am pretty sure, her husband knows, and it would do no good to tell her husband, even though i do have his email-address. Not even sure if he speaks english.

Do you really trust all he is telling you? Sounds like he is justifying the A and if he shows her H justifies it, so should you. Is that what you want t/d?

L.

i know she is separated from her husband, he told me these things when we were separated because i wanted to leave my husband and be with the other guy. Well i just wanted to be left alone, to have time with the other guy, i never went to be with him. So back then he had no reason to lie to me.

I just made a huge mistake and looked on her yahoo profile, he got mad at me for posting something on my site before on a couple occasions. Last time i had on there as my name: still ****'s wife, and as a comment, if you dont love someone, then let them go and be with someone that loves them. My husband got mad at me, put on his site: Fine, you are free to go..so leave. And on her site she had wrote, I am your b***ch, the only b***ch you love the most. Now she has other lovey-dovey stuff on there, yet he dont make her take that off. That just hurts so damn much...makes me just want to drop everything and give up, what sense does that all make? He is not even contacting me anymore after the talk last night, and i did not LB or anything. I thought it was a good talk, guess he just wants me to leave him the h**l alone. Where should i take anymore strength to go through this? It just seems so darn hopeless... i have lost him, he is with her... It just hurts so darn much, its been almost about a year and a half that he is living with her. He keeps telling me he left her before a few times already, she does this and this...(bad things). Why doesnt he tell me he is happy with her, and just lets me go???? Why is he telling me stuff like that? I dont understand, why cant he just tell me to just get the ****** out of his life <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />(( He doesnt want me anyways...

sorry.. having a really hard time right now, i shouldnt have looked, i know, and i havent in a week, but i feel like i have to know whats going on, so i know what to do. She just wants to so badly hold on to him, making him believe he is the love of her life, how can i compete with that? He has always loved asian women, now he has one, and younger and prettier than me at that...

I know...selfpity trip...ugh... i hate moments like these...

I do believe he is actually pretty honest with me, and thats what scares me more than anything....

Hey Daggi,

I don't have time to reread all the posts but I will because I may be able to add some info that the other posters may not be aware of. I will see if I can. I don't have my detailed Kuwait map here. Is Al Mangaf in Kuwait City?

If you need something sent to you, services like DHL can deliver to their office and you can pick up the package when it arrives. I used to do this a lot when I was changing jobs and didn't want packages delivered to me at the office. Just give them your phone number and they call you when the package arrives. They will even still deliver it to your apartment but they will ask you for detailed directions over the phone or you can go get it. It is all part of their service. If you are in or near Kuwait City, their office won't be that far away and I am sure that have an office in Ahmadi too. There is not much else in Kuwait besides those two cities.

The Neutral Zone is down south. Have you heard of Wafra? It is in the NZ. The NZ is a slab of lnad between Saudi and Kuwait that neither country claims as its onw and both share the oil revenue. By declaring the NZ, it keeps them from killing each other. Nearly all expats that live there work for Chevron-Texaco.

I have never lived in Kuwait. I have been there maybe 50 times since about 1986 and survived two gulf wars there. I also have been to "North Kuwait" a few times. I had a chance to live in Kuwait (Al Ahmadi) but I refused. I consider Kuwait way too dangerous and not because of the war or terrorism. There are "special" cultural problems that exist in Kuwait and always have. I was concerned about my DDs being kidnapped and raped. That was my biggest concern. And if I had boys, well, even higher risk. But you already know all that because you are there.

Philippinos and Philippinas are in Kuwait for money just like your husband. They live a much different lifestyle than we are accustomed to and infidelity is a natural result. Philippino expats can go years between repat vacations. I have met some that go home to see their families only once every 7 years. Once every two years is more common.

What none of you may understand is that you are in an altered reality. None of what you or your husband are used to is around you. You have lost all your landmarks so it is easy to get lost. If your WH leaves Kuwait and goes back home, there is no way on Earth he will consider a relationship with the Philippina. I have seen this over and over. Their relationship is not real because none of what you are living is real there in Kuwait.

If WH is having an A on company-paid premises, expose it to the company. Having an A is extremely common where you are but it is also a big no-no. I would recommend you get your husband fired if possible so that he is forced to leave Kuwait. That will wake him up pretty quickly. I doubt you will be able to convince him to leave yourself.

Before I stick my foot in my mouth any more, I'll go back and read all the posts.

I just want all the posters to be aware that the "normal rules" of infidelity don't easily apply themselves here. You need to get your WH back to someplace with more familiar surroundings where he will understand that there are rules. This OW has to be motivated by money. She is an opportunist. Anything she can dig up in Kuwait is 1000x better than anything she could ever hope for in the Philippines. I see this over and over.

I would suggest that, if possible, try to look for those things in Kuwait that are familiar. If you go to dinner, don't go to Kuwait Towers - go to Chili's or McDonalds. If you are not muslim, find the locations of the "secret" churches and go to services. Find those western things that are familiar and try to westernize as much as possible your life in Kuwait. Try to reestablish familiar landmarks to hopefully remind you that you are a stranger in a strange land.

I am just quessing about a lot of this but I am guessing that you are all quite depressed. First, I would never be concerned for my personal safety in Kuwait. I have been there way too many times. It looks like Al Mangaf is somewhere near the 5th or 6th ring road? My best guess is that you are not too far from the Ahmadi Hilton.

You are in a terrible environment as far as expats go. Your husband gets caught up in a pseudo-military life because he has to work their schedule, is around them all the time. (nothing against the military okay but they are used to their lifestyle and the expat contractors are not) Even in a "normal" place (i.e. not Kuwait, it is so easy for expats on contract work to have affairs. It happens more often than not. I am not sure why. I think it is because many people define themselves and their morals by their surroundings. Take them out of those surroundings and they lose their sense of who they are. Just a pet theory of mine. I have worked with rotation workers for 20 years. They are all always depressed. I have seen so many marriages destroyed by rotation work.

I am still guessing the OW is not too interested in your WH. She wants money, an improved style of living, etc. Think about it. The way your WH is acting right now - no future, no hope - is that going to be attractive to a woman? I am sure her husband back home supports everything she is doing. I have just seen this too many times in this part of the world. The Philippino population in Kuwait outnumbers the Kuwaitis - a fact. They are there because they have nothing available back home. They are there for money. Your husband's debt - sounds illegal. With what he is being paid in Kuwait, he should be able to make a down payment on a small country.

I will tell you that it is very likely that you are all individually depressed and that you are not banding together as a family to fight it. Kuwait is a depressing place. It is ugly. You have recently had some nasty shamals which you sent our way thank you very much and it is about to get HOT! If you have not been in Kuwait in the summer, you have no clue what HOT is. Kuwait is dangerous for small children and especially little boys. Keep a close eye on your kids. If you are going to be in Kuwait awhile, you need to seek out expat groups. Are you American? I know there is an American Woman's Group (AWG) and I can get the contact details if you like.
AWG-Kuwait

As bad as Kuwait is, you can have a reasonable life there as long as you don't hole up in your apartment. There is a really nice "private" beach very close to you where you are protected from gawkers and BMO's. If you go to church, find the church of your flavor and go religiously (no pun intended). You need to find something to ground yourself in. You need to find something for your kids to get involved in. You need to get your husband to seek help for depression (and maybe you too).

Whatever happens to your M, there is little chance your H will end up with the OM. The only way he will end up with her is if he becomes essentially a bum and tries to drop off the face of the planet and runs back to the Philippines with her to live the rest of his life. That happens more often than you might think. Men who do that lose all will to live and just live for what simple pleasures they can find. There tends to be a lot of alcohol involved as well.

I am not going to ponder too much on the marital situation because you have some great people reading your thread.

hi traicionado,

thank you so much for taking so much interest in my situation. Seems like you have a good idea on where i am at, there is a hilton not too far from me, its a pretty big nice complex with a water fountain in front. Also the ocean or whatever sea borders kuwait isnt that far from us.

I know very well that my husband lives in a different reality right now, he doesnt even eat normal..its all fast food and chips and candy. She doesnt cook, so i was told, and when i was at his place, there were no things to cook, the pots and pans didnt seem used that much, so i assume he told the truth. When she talked to me though, she said she is taking care of him, and she cooks for him, so not sure. But even though he lives in this other world, he is planning on staying, even seems to plan on us staying longer, cause he bought things for the apartment, and still wants to get furniture and things, when asked he said, he dont know how long he will stay, maybe a few more years, and if he leaves the company will pay for up to so many pounds for him to take with him.

We lost all our furniture and our apartment in germany (thats where we lived prior) and he would never go back to germany, he said that even before coming here, we had planned to move back to the states, once he made enough money here to pay the bills back home, and saved enough to start over fresh in the states. He hated the job-situation in germany, i dont blame him, i didnt like it much, even though i am german. the kids are both.

I also know he is not "allowed" to have anyone living with him at the company-apartment that he is living in. But she has lived with him for about 1 1/2 years. Now they changed the policy and people visiting have to sign in, but she also has an apartment that he pays for (he made her quit her job, when they got together, even paid her former employer some amount of money cause he took her from there, not sure what this was about) So they can still stay at her place, there wouldnt be much problem to that.

I could get my husband fired, i do have something he could get fired over, but he wouldnt leave the country, his BF got fired back in october, yet he is still here with his A and makes money illegally, and tells his wife he is looking for another job over here cause they need the money. I think my husband would only be doing the same thing his BF is doing, and stay here. And i have tried to get him to leave months ago, he wouldnt go for it then, and he wont go for it now.

I know there are women over here like her, that are after the money, i dont know if she is one of those people. But i think had my husband been a bum on the street, she wouldnt have looked at him twice. She also had other relationships here before my husband, once even two guys at once, my husband told me that over a year ago.

I have been taking walks with my children, to familiarize myself with my surroundings, i dont have a car or a license, nor would i would want to drive over here, its just crazy. Another problem is that the apartment he got us, is in a completely new area, its like a big construction site, not a whole lotta stuff around yet.

My husband is also an ex-soldier, and has been working contracting for 2-3 years in germany before coming here, so he is very familiar with military surroundings.

I have noticed that most men over here, they seem so very different here. They live like they have no care in the world, do whatever they feel like, without any other responsibilies other than sending part of their checks home. I guess you adjust to any invironment you are in. My husband seems depressed, burnt out, has no future plans. I would love to help him, he knows he is not the man he used to be. I would love to see that strong, proud man again, but i am afraid i cant help him if he wont let me, and there is just no way..:( He works, sleeps, plays darts, BBQ's and goes fishing, thats his life. His face looks like he has aged years, not just 2. But he is planning on staying, he just dont know for how long, guess he is just wanting to stay forever, thats probably why he brought us over to begin with. No clue. He doesnt have any answers to my questions concerning this, and i have given up asking him. I also know it would be the only way to save my marriage, if i could get him out of here, and also the only way for him to become the person that he once was again. I just dont see a way for this to happen.

I also dont really know what she feels for my husband, she says it all, that he is the love of her life, eternally and forever, displays it on her yahoo site, so i can see it, i guess. She has always come across as very loving and caring to me when we did talk (msn messenger). But she has also wrote pretty not so nice things on her website. She keeps telling him to go back to his wife, but everytime she says that, he runs to her, stops her and tells her he loves her. Guess either she is genuine and she really feels she should leave, then why hasnt she? She has been saying it for months. Or she is just trying to manipulate him into committing to her all the way, she does feel threatened by the fact that he is still married. She has told him many times, if she were to leave him, so he can go back to his family, she would go back to the phillipines (she has a son there, that she claims is her life, yet he is not over here with her, cant get over that...) She seems very loving, caring and understanding, yet when my husband was very sick for example (high fever, cold sweats, had some ecola? virus for over 2 weeks), she wakes him up in the middle of the night, cause she is hungry, does a woman that loves and cares for a man do that???? I know i wouldnt..but maybe thats just me. I also told him before, she would never go through what i am going through for him, she would be long gone, no comment from him on that one. He didnt even defend her.

I know it must have been, or still is, a pretty large sum that he owed, cause he has been paying bout 1/2 to 3/4 of his paycheck for about 6-8 months or longer. I checked the bankbalance online, and usually after 3 days of him getting paid, its all taken out and gone. I also get the feeling, he does not want me or the kids to know much about his life here, maybe he thinks i would think bad of him, i dont know, maybe he is embarrassed, maybe he wants to keep us in the clear, i have no clue.

You think her husband is in on that????? I had to read that one twice, people really do that??? Are you serious??? I do know my husband has sent money back to the phillipines for her, doesnt seem to be large sums...maybe 150 KD or so, from a statement i found once. Since he made her quit her job, and she has a son back there, i guess he feels obligated, or just plain told her he would do that for her, i dont know. I also dont know how much money that would be over there. I noticed when i was there in august last year, i was looking around on his computer and i saw that someone had sent an e-card to someone else, the last name was the same as hers, so i asked my husband about it (at that time he told me he had broken it off with her) and when i told him the email address that was there, he made a very angry face, and i knew who it was. I know my husband keeps very tight tabs on her, so i doubt she would have contact to her husband, she also only mentions my husband on her site. She seems separated from her husband. I dont know who is raising her son, if its him or her family back there.

Since i have been over here in august last year, i do know how hot it gets here, i almost passed out at one point back then, but i will be prepared for it this time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Should i still be here at this time, i dont know for how much longer i can go through this, i feel like i have to save my husband, i care too much for him to leave him behind like this, because i know then he will completely fall into this hole, and will get drug down even more.

My husband has made this country his home, he defends it when the kids or me complain about something over here. I think its already too late to do anything. To get him out i mean. I do keep a very close eye on my children, and my son (17) towers over pretty much every man over here. He has said before he would kill to protect his sister or even his mother, is just sad that he has to take that position, because his father just doesnt seem to care.

And i think my husband would be one of those people that would follow her to her home-country if he had no place else to go anymore. He just seems so weak... i just dont know how to safe him from himself. He is not waking up, guess i have to find something pretty shocking for him to get it... Should i contact her husband? Also i think if i could find WH's mother, she could be the only one to talk sense into him, if its not too late already. Thank you so much for all your help. I feel like you understand the situation over here very well, and it just confirmed the feeling i had all along about this whole country and everything that came along with it.

Hi Daggi,

I can't post back till tomorrow. If your husband is American, please check out the AWG. They generally are a good bunch of people and you should be welcome there. I read the rest of your post later. Generally when people get fired, they get their residence visas cancelled because the company is the sponsor. There are illegal ways around it but you should ask about the waiver laws in Kuwait. Never hurts to have too much info. Back in the AM.

ok, thanks, yes i know, they tend to hop to bahrain for a day and then come back on another 3 month tourist visa, i heard about that. I think this is how his BF is doing it. Will check out the AWG, thank you for that. Sorry if i ask, since i am german, and some english word i am not sure of what they mean, what are waiver laws? And where do i go to find out about them? Also...is there any way to message someone privately here on this board? I feel like i have some information for you, that i do not want to disclose publicly here, but you might be able to help me a way to deal with it. You seem to know a lot about over here. I so appreciate all your input.

I'll explain it in the AM. The way your husband is working is totally illegal. The Kuwaiti government tends to look the other way at the moment but he cannot work on the visa he is using.

Until about 2 years ago, nobody (westerners) could get a visa on arrival in Kuwait. All visas were prearranged. Probably as gratitude on the part of Kuwaitis and even more out of necessity, Kuwait relaxed visa restrictions for certain nationalities so that a few passports qualified for tourist visas obtained at arrival. No this is a little insane because there is no tourism in Kuwait as you well know. To be honest, it did surprise me that you, being German, are able to get a visa to live there. Germany fell out of favor with Kuwait during the 2nd Gulf War - even after the first one if my memory serves me. Back in 91 I saw Germans really get hassled in the Kuwait airport. It was quite sad the way they were treated.

I know the Hilton you talk about well. My former company has long term leases on three villas there. Most of that hotel was taken over by military (officers mainly) but it is a very nice hotel with a nice clean beach.

The special "visa runs" to Bahrain, Qatar, Dubai or Kish Island (Iran) are big business. The idea is to leave the country before your visa expires and return immiediately back to get a new visa. The visa runs alone are a multi-million dollar industry. One industrious man in Sharjah bought his own airplane and established "visa run" flights. The plane takes off, circles the airport "leaving the country" and lands back where it started. It is about a 2 minute flight - no peanuts.

But no country - even Kuwait - allows people to take up long term work on a tourist visa. Actually they are not supposed to work at all but, since most get paid into foreign bank accounts, it is hard to regulate. Since Kuwait has no income tax, it does not cause them a problem.

Your husband worked in Germany. Is that were you two met? What was his family status before he moved to Germany? I admit I was starting to think of him as the sailor who has a girl in every port so I was just curious. You mentioned you have children. Do they have dual nationality so that they are both German and US citizens? The USA currently allows dual citizenship but may not forever. They go hot and cold on the issue. Having US passports may give you more rights but it means they will be cursed with having to pay taxes the rest of their lives even if they never live or work in the USA. If you do have two passports for them, I believe they can renounce their citizenship later if they choose. That would depend on their goals at the time.

Your husband works as a contractor for the military. Is he paid by a US registered company and where does his salary get paid into? I ask this because many companies set up jobs like this to "hide" income from the US IRS. Even US companies set up foreign companies for this specific purpose. All totally illegal yet done every day. Many US expats are quite guilty of tax evasion and some are not even aware they are doing it. If your husband has a US passport and a) is not reporting any and all income or b) is getting paid into an offshore account, he is potentially in very serious trouble and may never be able to set foot back in the USA again without looking at jail time.

When you made the comment that your H said that Kuwait was "home", that floored me. Nobody in their right mind could possibly believe that. Not even the Kuwaitis live in Kuwait. They all live in Europe. I don't know how long the military will be there but once they are gone, there will be no available expat jobs for people like your husband and the visa restrictions will be tightened again. Could the military be there five more years? I don't know. Depends on who the next US president is.

What I meant about waiver laws is that a person working in Kuwait should come in on a "residence" visa. I never had Kuwaiti residence so am only guessing but it is probably a two year visa. The company the expat works for is the sponsor of the visa. If a person quits the company, that visa gets cancelled because the company wants no liability for an ex-employee. Visa cancelled means you leave the country. It is possible to find work with another company and get a new residence visa but many countries like Kuwait require the ex-employee to leave for 6 months to a year prior to reentering on a new visa unless the person can get a waiver for the delay making them exempt. I don't know enough about Kuwaiti immigration to know if they still have that or not. If your husband is on a perpetual three month tourist visa, it doesn't really matter.

I do get the impression that your husband is running from something. Maybe it is just tax evasion. Don't know. He is never going to be able to live out the rest of his natural life in Kuwait. He will eventually have to relocate somewhere else but he probably has not thought that far ahead. The most popular spot for people in your husband's position is Thailand.

I don't think the forum allows private messages but I am not sure. I have never tried.

I am making the assumption that your husband is contracted to the US military since he is a US citizen. Is your husband ex-military? He would have to have a DoD (department of defense) ID to work for them. Contractor ID's expire every two years I believe and there is no way around that system that I am aware of.

I would like to understand a little more about your situation because there are a lot of things that aren't clear. If you plan to stay in Kuwait with your children, that is probably the best option for the moment. I would not worry about terrorism. I would only worry about locals taking my children and violating them. Just keep your kids in sight all the time. Drug abuse is a major problem in Kuwait although they won't admit it. HIV is quite prominent too. While you remain in Kuwait, it is imperative that you get out of the apartment and live as normal a life as you can. Find fun things to do. Get involved with a peer group that shares your values. Make friends and let your children make friends. Overall I think Kuwaitis, in general, are friendly to foreigners. Most live overseas themselves and appreciate the western lifestyle. You can see that by the shopping malls, restaurants, etc.

Once the situation with your husband becomes more clear, I am certain the great people here at MB can give you some good advice.