No,i did not get him hooked on drugs, but this has been something that has been in his life before. Before we were together, he had a cocaine addiction. He also had money problems before we were together, those things changed during our marriage. He changed them for me, for our family. I am not his family anymore, so he went back to the life and the person that he was before. This was his life before, and this is his life now. I have no part of it anymore.

I just sent him an email, asking him to get me a ticket as soon as possible, i need to get the ****** out of here, i cant get over him here. And i will face whatever i need to face in germany.

And no, i cant "fix" my husband, i wish i could, and he would let me, but i cant. But i did "break" him, my EA and how i treated him back then, broke the man that he once was. He is not as broken anymore, he is going on with life. I believe i wanted to see him as a broken man still, so i could believe he was having a MLC or something like that. So i could believe he could return. I "made" him have something like MLC in my mind so i could go on hoping... believing. This is different, he has moved on with life, he closed the door. This is not an affair, he doesnt go back and forth between her and me. He doesnt have second thoughts, he does not want to break it off with her to try again with me even if it would mean loosing me forever.

This is not an affair of his, this is his new life, and i need to get the ****** out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!

So your WH had a drug problem before you met him. Got better for a while when he was with you and then he went back to drugs – oh, and this is your fault. Sorry, I forgot.

I was just looking at the BBC news on the net and I find the following (among others):

1) Talks are breaking down in the Darfur crisis
2) Iran is heading toward confrontation with the UN over nuclear development
3) Bolivia nationalizes its natural gas fields
4) Global warming is on the increase
5) The word "rhythm" has no true vowels

All of these things bother me and, since you seem to be more than willing to accept blame for things that you neither caused nor have any ability to control or repair, would you mind taking the blame for these things too? I just am really needing somebody to hate for all these tragedies and it would be so helpful if you would volunteer – I mean, since you are already doing it and all.

If you agree to take responsibility for the above, I'll go look for some more and get back to you.

thanks in advance

point taken Traic,

i do love your sarcasm, i am an avid enjoyer of sarcasm and i do have some myself, just misplaced it for a while...lol

But you know... the global warming thing... i might really have to check that out, i mean ... i might have used a spraycan with that dangerous stuff you know... back in the 80's or so...:P

I do understand what you mean, and in my head this all makes sense, it really does... i know, i know.. my heart is just so weird...lol.. i feel guilty and always have for all sorts of things.. i know i HAVE to stop that.

Thanks Traic, you're a great pal (if i may call you that :P)

LOL (sons comment, you should take half the blame and dad the other? just double it and you all get 100%) Well... they are just sick and tired of it.. well he is... just angry, thats how he deals with it. Daughter is sad and depressed, guess its how boys and girls deal with it differently.

Well, in reality, if you just happen to have an attack of flatulence on one of your walks to Fahaheel, you are contributing to "green house" gases so, technically speaking, you could take some ownership for the global warming thing. Try holding it in from now on.

We all make mistakes. We do it every day. Some have serious consequences and some don't. If you could go back and try to relive your life and do everything differently, you have no guarantee you would have a better result. But you can't go back. And you shouldn't. Just look on this message forum and look at all the betrayed spouses who are doing everything they can to save their marriages. Affairs, by themselves, do not cause your husband to do what he did. My wife had a PA with a friggin swimming instructor!!! What future was there in that??? I did not go out and shack up with a table dancer. Maybe I should have tried? As always, 20-20 hindsight! Something caused your husband to do what he did and it happened to him a long time before he EVER met you. It reminds me of the ending of the movie "Apollo 13" where Tom Hanks says that an investigation as to the cause of the explosion determined that the failure actually occurred two years earlier on a factory floor at an assembly plant in California. It was an accident waiting to happen. So was your husband.

All you can do is try to be the best Daggi you can each and every day. When you make a mistake, learn from it. If you hurt someone else, ask forgiveness and try to do better. Right now you have two children who need you. They are going to make mistakes too. They may even do things that are a direct result of your experiences in your marriage and you will feel guilty for that. Maybe you are guilty. If so, forgive yourself. But talk to your children. They really need you. If they push you away, give them their distance but don't give up.

I told you from the beginning that there is far more going on with your husband than a betrayed spouse in mourning. He needs to hit bottom before he can get better. Maybe not having his family around will help him get there that much faster. You really might be doing him a favor by leaving because, if he keeps on the way he is going, it will kill him - and you won't be responsible BTW.

Oh, I just heard that a butterfly has just flapped its wings in China. Was that you who caused that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

OMG!!! I just realized that I wrote the word "Iran" in your thread!!! Since I have an American passport and Iran is an embargoed country, I am not allowed to say, write, think or even dream the word "Iran". I can get into serious trouble over this!!! Please don't ever tell anyone I said "Iran"!!!

BTW, do you want to guess how many NSA flunkies will now be reading your thread? And mine? Sorry - I just love to do this to those guys.

Oh, I thought that's what a WS says.

Police: Do you know you were speeding?

WS: Yes, officer. My wife just caught me with another woman.

Police: What did you do?

WS: Iran.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

NSA flunkies? no clue what this is.. dont forget i am german..lol.. care to enlighten me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

well, on a more serious note, Husband was here yesterday as my daughter wanted to talk to him about going with me to germany. He came in the house gave me a hug and a kiss on the cheek, then went to her room with her to talk to her.

They talked very quietly so i had no idea what was being said, after a few minutes he called his son in there as well, i went to the door and my Husband asked me to come in as well.

He was calm and talking normal, he said "so, you both are going with mom?" And my daughter said "no dad, we both have decided by ourselves what we want to do, and i want to go with mom, and my brother wants to stay here". He told my daughter she can go with me, that would be no problem, it will just be a couple weeks then, as he wants to make sure we both have a little money to get an appartment etc. when we get over there.

I said thats ok, he asked me where i was going right after i get to germany and i said i dont know yet if i am going to my moms or my sisters. And he said, well you need to get that cleared up. And i said, it doesnt really matter. Then i said something like "our situation still has to get cleared up as well" and he replied "i still dont know" in a pretty sad way. I do believe he is leaning more and more towards divorce. Even though when it did come up, as he was talking about a legal seperation when i am going to germany, i did tell him i dont want a divorce and he too said he didnt want one.

I wasnt overemotional or anything, and even when he was talking to my daughter before my son and me entered the room, he told my daughter that he is impressed and glad that i am not the emotional wreck anymore. He also said that to me when we were talking, i felt like he was actually proud of me. I told him, i should have known better back then, i come from a family where depression runs through like a bad disease (well it is one..) and i told him i always thought i would be the one breaking the cycle and be above it all. And he said you are above it all, look at you now. I told him, that i was sick back then i just had no clue about it. And he said, i should have seen the signs.

When we had started talking, i had sat down next to him, and it was in a sense pretty emotional, he hugged and kissed my on the mouth a few times as we talked. I dont know how to explain those kisses and hugs, they were not just regular kisses...its like they were filled with pain, he pressed his lips to mine and kept them there every time. I felt like .. i dont know... i wish i could change it, but i cant and i am so sorry kisses. It was like a goodbye in a way, but i had a good feeling during our talk, he was listening and responsive.

I told him, that i would go through ****** with him, and that i would never let anything like this happen to us. And i told him that i have forgiven him as we were hugging. He said he was sorry.

I told him that i know he loves her, but that he didnt fall in love with her the minute he saw her, he replied to it with "heck no i didnt fall in love with her the minute i saw her" (he did with me, but i didnt mention it, he knows that himself) and i told him that we have loved each other for 18 years, and our marriage was a good one, he agreed. I told him, we will fall in love again, if we would be together again and spend time with each other again, because we were in love before, so we know we can love each other. I asked him to please consider this.

He is so calm.. i dont know how to read him at all. We didnt talk for very much. When he was getting ready to go, i told him again, to please consider it, that we could fall in love with each other again, and if he is in the slightest interested, i could show him a website to read, no obligation, no pressure.. just so he could see that it is really possible. And he said, no he wont read a website, he dont believe in that, but we will talk about it then.

I know i am ready to go... ready to move on. It just really still hurts though... i am so saddened that this marriage came to this, i believed we would be together always. In a way i am glad to go back to germany, i can get distance from my emotions and start to concentrate on other things instead of sitting here and thinking. On the other hand, i am pretty sure this will be it... everything will have been for nothing, all the pain, the suffering.. the sacrifices.. of the past 3 years, will have been for nothing, it will just end up in a divorce. And he is still my Husband, the loving caring man, he doesnt have any anger for me... which makes it so d**n hard to let go and put it behind me. I wish he would hate me... or be angry at me, then it would be much easier for me to leave everything behind.

I would have given anything and everything just to at least get a real shot at this. Ever since all this happened, we never had a real chance to try to save this marriage. When i was in my EA, he kept saying he will always love me and will always wait for me, he never confronted me with the possibilty that i might loose him or our marriage over this. In my warped way of thinking i felt like i deserved this time with that other guy, and he should give it to me. I played a game which stakes i didnt know. Why didnt he ever tell me "its him or me"... if you want to continue this, then get a divorce but dont walk all over me in our marriage, if thats what you want end the marriage now.

Maybe i will get another chance to talk to him before i leave, he is still getting the visas done, took the passports again because today he is going to do something with them again. I would like to tell me, where he stands... in our marriage... what his thoughts are about it. If he dont want to talk about her, thats fine, but i think i have a right to know where our marriage stands. I always told him what i felt.. even if it was only the truth for myself as i viewed it.

He has been with her for 2 years, by now he should know what it is he wants. And i think i have a right to know. I have been living alone for 2 years, and for the past year i didnt have anyone loving me, i feel very empty and i need something to fill me again. I so want him to be the one that decides to give it one real shot at this. But if he cant do this, i need to be open for someone else, its been so long. I know it would cover the feelings up that i have for him, as his feelings have done the same with her. But at this point, anything will be better than this emptiness inside of me.

Well i wrote a book again, i just felt like i had to put it down somewhere. For a long time, i had felt and hoped that inside of him somewhere he still loves me, this feeling has been gone for some months now, him living with her did that. I know i could have never moved out of our apartment and went to the other guy, my Husband even gave me a possibility that i could have done that. To me, even though he was living her in kuwait, he was still living with me, if that makes sense. He has been gone so much in our marriage on various jobs, that it didnt make me feel like we were seperated at all. That didnt hit until i came here.

I have prayed to god, to take the feelings i have for my Husband away, even if just to put em behind a wall how they were back when i gotten into my EA. I dont want to feel them anymore, i dont want to feel the pain and the sadness anymore.

The NSA is that super secret US agency that doesn't exist but listens to all electronic intel and has supercomputers programmed to flag suspiscious info partly based on keywords. I was in a situation one time in Oman where I needed to get some attention to a potentially dangeroud problem I had nobody to call. I wrote my sister an email and included every keyword I could think of and explained in the email exactly why I was doing it. The next day I had received an arcane email from an FM radio station in the USA talking about the thing I had mentioned. My original email was also missing from my laptop. It was amazingly fast and slick. They do listen.



Yes - surround yourself by a bunch of Germans. Get away from all emotion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />



Sort of your German heritage isn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, I know it hurts and I am so sorry for you. Don't forget that the opposite of love is not hate - it is indifference. It is difficult for your husband to do what he is doing. I am betting he is torn up inside and is steeling himself and not letting you see how he feels. I am betting he is also indifferent at the same time. It sounds strange but I bet it is true.

I am a bit curious what your son will do all alone in Kuwait. If you get divorced, he may not be able to keep his visa. On the other hand, since he has a US passport, he can stay on a visit visa and do visa runs to Dubai or Doha every three months.

You shouldn't feel bad about giving up what you have. You feel bad about giving up what you wish you had. But you don't have it. This just takes time. Take care of yourself and heal.

Thanks for the explanation <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> getting smarter every day

And yes, germany would be the perfect place to get away from emotions..~rolls eyes~ i never wanted to go back and live there, we always wanted to go to the states again and live there, and i do love the states.

I know the opposite of love is indifference, but i dont think that this is how he feels. I do believe him when he says he still cares for me. And if he was indifferent, he wouldnt be torn up inside. Not sure what you mean by "steeling" himself and not letting me see how he feels. He has told me on several occasions that he cares for me, but loves her. I am not sure what emotions he would be hiding from me.

My son will only stay here till august, till he is 18, then he is going to live with his girlfriend in a different town in germany. They are preparing their future together.

Maybe i shouldnt have said giving up... i am mourning my marriage and what could have been. I am mourning my Husband and the person that i know loved me more than life, and i know we could have that again, but that he is not willing to even see that, or believe that. All he goes by right now is the feelings he has for her, everything else is irrelevant. He doesnt think about our marriage, our committment, our love that we had, and that it could be like that again.

I know it takes time.. it will take a long long time, but maybe i get lucky and someone will be interested in me, and i cover up all the feelings for my husband with new ones, just as he did, and i never have to feel them again.

Some day I think your H will sit down with you and explain what all he was going through and thinking. I don't think that will be soon. Don't obsess about this. You need to go forward.

BTW, where were you married (i.e. what country)? Where would be the "best" place to get a divorce in terms of legal protection? (if you decide to get a divorce)

You believe my Husband will someday talk to me about all of this? Why would he do that if we are not together, it wont matter anymore anyways.

we were married in germany, in germany there is only one type of divorce, and that is basically that you cant live with that person anymore, there has to be one seperation year, which we have already surpassed. So if i would get the papers and he would sign them, it would be instantly. Not much to it.

Have you found out if the divorce will offer you any kind of debt protection? Did you get anything out of the embassy?

Just a hunch but I think some day he will desperately NEED to talk to you about all this. I once looked up an old college girlfriend 15 years after-the-fact just to tell her the real reason I broke up with her. If he ever comes out of this, he will need to talk to you for him to be able to heal himself. It will haunt him if he does not.

the only answer i received from any emails that i have written was from the american embassy and they just said, we do believe you need a lawyer for this and sent me a list of lawyers here in kuwait.

Husband doesnt want a divorce and i dont either, so i highly doubt that this is in our near future, but i dont know... i will know more about the situation when my sisters has talked to a lawyer in germany bout it all.

Huge hugs. I haven't posted on your thread before, but I have been following it and I know this is a huge step to be going back to Germany.

The above quote hit me like a knife. It is exactly how I think my WH feels. I read your thread and hope and pray I am not in the position you are in 2 years time. It has been 6 weeks for me and it already feels a life time. My WH is living with the OW and yet *sigh* tries to be 'daddy' still too.

Hugs and best of luck.

Tscuss

Zuj

I know you don't WANT a divorce. I was just wondering if it might offer you any debt protection. If it does, the divorce might be your only practical solution. Right now I think you need to focus on what is the best path out of your predicament. The lawyer's advice is really what you need to determine that.

Well.. i will be going to germany either way, no matter what the lawyer says, and i dont think i will be coming back, it really makes no sense that my husband is even doing the darn visas anymore (he just called and wanted the address for the german embassy from me, but didnt say why, he had no time and spoke german, guess he didnt want someone to know what he was asking me)

I just wish i could say "i am done, i need to get on with my life" and my heart and head would be 100% behind that statement...

All thats been in my head the past few day was me picturing my Husband and myself, old and greyhaired sitting next to each other on our porch and having been grateful for our life together.. I think i am loosing it..

My guess has always been that he needs your visas for COLA (cost of living adjustment) available to him through his company. In other words, having the visas means he gets paid more. Since you can get visas on arrival now at the airport, the fact that you have residence should have no other practical significance. Since you have over-stayed your visas, he maty be doing it simply to avoid having to pay a fine. Whatever way you look at it, it is financial.

No, he doesnt get more money because of us, he hasnt lied to me in a long time, he has no reason to lie to me anymore, i am not his wife anymore... only on paper, he doesnt owe me any justifications, and when i do ask, he does tell me business type things. Just when it comes to our marriage or his feelings does he completely shut off.

But i guess i could try writing another letter to his firm asking about that. Just to humor me..

Hi Traicionado,

i was just wondering something. When you apply for the kind of visa that my Husband is getting for us over here, do you have to go to the Ministry of foreign affairs for this?

I have tried pulling up their website to find anything out, but the website is in arabic and i cant read any arabic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

He was going to go there yesterday, and then he called me and wanted the address for the german embassy. He did talk to me in german, which kind of threw me of. Is this normal procedure when doing visas?

Where does he have to get our visas? Does he get them from that ministry, or the german embassy? Just wondering a bit what might be going on, thanks for your input in advance.