It really disturbs me when I see people talking about how their kids will not speak to the spouse that wants the divorce or is/was having an affair. I know that the BS is angry and often feels that the other spouse "deserves" this type of treatment, but I think that sends the absolute wrong message to the children.

The children have a need placed within them to love BOTH parents - regardless of their behavior. As parents, we need to facilitate an environment that makes that possible - even when we don't feel like doing so.

When my boys start fussing at me about things, I will not defend myself by tearing down their Dad. My kids feel like they can help hold our marriage together - but I desperately want them to realize THAT IS NOT THEIR JOB and IT IS BEYOND THEIR CONTROL!!!! I think when a spouse encourages or supports a child in withdrawal from the other parent, it is HIGHLY damaging to the child.

I know many people will be critical of this post. I realize that divorce and marital problems in a family are very damaging to children regardless of the outcome, but I strongly feel that as parents, we should ALL be stressing to our kids the same thing. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH MOM AND DAD, WE BOTH LOVE YOU AND WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU. We need to be sure that they understand that divorce is an AWFUL experience, BUT IT IS NOT THE END OF THEIR WORLD.

RLD, I don't think you understand. It is not the BS that "sends the wrong message," but the adulterous WS with thier destructive behavior. Having affairs and divorcing are very damaging to children. Children are DEVASTATED by affairs and are often - quite RIGHTLY - very angry and disgusted by their parents actions.

They CHOOSE to seperate [emotionally or physically] from the offending parent because the parent's behavior is so deeply offensive and destructive.

That is a NATURAL CONSEQUENCE of an affair.

It is not "damaging" for an older child to withdraw from a DESTRUCTIVE parent. What is damaging is being exposed to a parent who engages in cruel, selfish, destructive behavior. THAT is not good for any child. It is morally confusing and very traumatic for a child to have to witness an adulterous parent. What is HIGHLY DAMAGING to a child is an adulterous affair. What is HIGHLY DAMAGING to a child is DIVORCE.

I cannot begin to explain to you how devastating this is to a child. It rocks their world to have to watch a parent acting in such an IMMORAL fashion.

Divorce almost is the end of the world to many children. It is about as devastating as molestation, so please don't underestimate the traumatic impact of adultery and divorce on children. Please remember who the real victims are here, RLD, they are the BS and the children.

Let me assure you that when you had your affair, you did not just betray your husband, but you betrayed your CHILDREN. Adultery effects a very wide circle of people.

Dr. Jennifer Chalmers, Infidelity:
The Lessons Children Learn, on the effects of adultery on children:

"Marital discord is hard enough on children. It undermines the basic security needed for them to learn and grow. But to add infidelity to a troubled marriage turns a problem into a disaster. Parents who have an affair are teaching their children very important rules that are likely to be followed for the rest of their lives. It ultimately not only undermines their marital relationships but it also seriously hurts their own chances for success in most other areas of life.

Parents have a responsibility to teach their children the importance of honesty and the importance of thoughtfulness -- considering other people's feeling when decisions are being made. To do otherwise is not only terribly irresponsible, but may tend to perpetuate the learning of these rules of deceit and thoughtlessness for generations to come.

But even after the mistake of an affair, it is possible to make a conscious choice to change the disastrous consequences. I have counseled many parents who could see what they were teaching their children by having an affair. It motivated them to end the affair and explain to their children how wrong they had been. Although it was extremely difficult and very humbling, they were not only able to save their marriage, but also able to correct the lessons they had taught their children."

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

RLD ~ I don't think anyone disagrees with you that the kids need to hear that message. Why would we be critical of that?

On the other hand ~ an affair is not just a betrayal of the spouse. It is a deep devastating betrayal of the family, and of the children.

Kids, older ones especially, understand that. They are hurt as badly as the BS. And some choose not to have anything to do with the offending parent.

It doesn't mean that a BS has instigated this choice!

And often, when a WS finds a new interest outside the marriage, the kids are dumped to the absolute last position on the WS priority list. Again, the kids see this, know this, and react to it with anger, hurt, and outrage.

Should we say to our children, sobbing into their pillows at night because their parent has vanished (of his or her own choice) from their lives - that the WS loves them more than anything and always will?

What a slap in the face to a child! Telling them something that is patently untrue by the WS's own demonstration does nothing but make the child's own disorientation worse.

Does that mean one should say: Daddy or Mommy doesn't love you anymore? Of course not.

But to pretend for a second that we should cover up the reality of what is going on, and simply tell a child his world is not ending and his parents love him or her first is a good way to do more harm.

As a BS, I can tell you that I felt nuts for so long, because I knew things were off, I felt in my gut that my husband was having an affair, but I was told that my feelings were wrong, everythign was fine, nothing was going on....what a relief it was, on DDay, to know that *I* wasn't crazy. What a relief it was to face the facts that were present in my life and had been hidden from me!

Don't you think that children have similar experiences?

I fully realize that my behavior has greatly damaged my children. I also realize that the actions of all parents - even those who have not been unfaithful - often damage our children unintentionally. I am just saying that these two wrongs do not make a right. The parents have the responsibility of working beyond his/her hurt and trying to reassure the children. Obviously, their world is being drastically changed. Parents die, parents have serious illnesses, parents become disabled, addicted etc. These are all horrible things, but life continues on for those left behind. I personally feel that it is the responsibility of everyone in the life of the child to try to reassure the child or children that they are loved and cared about regardless of the circumstances. They will live on with the scars of the event, but God is good and will walk beside them.

I know many of you see me as just an anonymous person that had an emotional affair. You see me and think only of the pain you are personally experiencing. I do not belittle your pain in any way, and I was really not talking about my own children when I started this thread. I am urging every parent on this board to realize that even when he/she has been betrayed by his/her spouse, they can still help their children to see hope in the future.

In Jeremiah 29, we are reminded that God has a plan for us, a plan that includes hope for our future. This applies to every single child of God - regardless of age. What harm could be found in sharing this hope with children who are hurting???? I can personally attest that living without a sense of hope for the future is emotionally devastating and leaves one feeling suicidal. Could anyone explain how awful it would be to TRY to make these kids feel hopeful instead of hopeless???

RLD, of course the child should be reassured they are loved, no one has ever argued otherwise. However, it is very important to understand that will not erase the BETRAYAL a child feels when a parent engages in thoughtless, cruel behaviors, such as adultery and divorce. Those behaviors do not make a child feel loved OR secure or safe.

No amount of TALK or "reassurances" will undo the devastation caused by those actions.

Children are made to feel hopeless when their parents act in thoughtless, destructive ways that show no regard for their happiness and security. Nor does it give children "hope" to lie to them or pretend things are all right when they are not. Children can deal with the truth, not lies.

It is not a "wrong" for a child to withdraw from a parent who is behaving destructively. It is a CONSEQUENCE of an affair and other thoughtless, cruel behaviors, such as divorce. There is a consequence for sin, and one of the consequences is that decent people are outraged and choose to seperate themselves from the sinner.

From a personal standpoint, I am not experiencing any pain at all. BrambleRose and I are both years into personal recovery and have very good marriages and I doubt she feels any "pain" either. [I don't presume to speak for her, but she is far from a pained BS and is well into recovery] That has nothing to do with the opinions you see on this thread.

RLD, many CS use the kids against themselves more effectively than a BS ever can. Many CS have alienated themselves by choice. For the past 3 weeks, my DS has postponed many dates with with his girlfriend so he would be available to stay home with his little sister while I met with my CH. His father has made promises but never followed through. DS doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see what has happened.

Tonight, DS encouraged me to go to a movie. Earlier this morning, he read the email that said his father had something better to do and just might contact me later. DS's first words when I got back were to ask if his dad had contacted me in anyway. Of course, CH didn't.

DD hasn't like to sleep by herself since her father left. Her father didn't call or see her on her birthday. He left the country without a word. She saw him last week for the first time since Christmas. CH hasn't attended a soccer game, softball game, school play or conference. Hasn't even asked about any of them.

DS knows that the money that CH had said was for DS's school tuition got mysteriously spent.

Should I tell these kids how much their dad loves and cares for them? Should I tell them that perhaps some day the aliens will bring him back? Fortunately, they have a strong mom who shows them the meaning of love. They see my strength and hope. They see my journey. They are not stupid. They can see through the fog and lies. We've moved through this together.

I don't speak poorly of their dad. He can do that all by himself.

Use the kids?!??! The kids (aka: Children) are part of the family. If you don't think they don't know or don't feel hurt or even responsible for the problems in the family, u r quite dillusional.

The WS is often the one who uses the kids. What we see here is the BS usually trying to NOT inform the children and the chlidren suffer in silence.

Who will speak for the children?

Now get off that high horse and love your kids, like u r suppose 2. They r people 2 u know.

L.

RLD ~ Melody is correct - I'm not a raw fresh BS, and not in pain.


The problem I have with this statement is that you seem to imply that an act of betrayal...a choice....on the part of a WS to abandon his/her family, to put the emotional and physical stability of the children's home at risk...a WS who chooses and has control over the him or herself....is equal to a parent who has died, become ill, disabled or addicted.

Hardly.

The choice to have an affair is selfish.

A parent who dies or becomes ill is hardly selfish.

The WS has control over his/her choice to put the security of the children's world in jeopardy.

Help the children be hopeful? What on earth does that mean?

You know, I spoke with a 17 year old boy today, 4 years after his mother died....and that boy's entire heart and soul was in his eyes as he spoke to me....because he knew that I had known his mother and had helped care for her when she was dying.

That boy is forever changed by the loss of his mother.

Can you imagine the pain of a child who has lost his or her parent because that parent made a choice to do so??

And while SOME WSes might eventually fix up their act and start acting like a parent again, the "script" of a WS is to abandon the BS and the children, while they run off and make new ties, and maybe even new children with someone else.

There is no way to make that OK.

While the child one day come to resolution emotionally, what the children face are severe emotional reprecussions, and deep emotional trama before they are adults with adult ability to process. What they have to face is difficulity with intimacy and relationships of their own as they are older.

Will they be ok? Maybe. Yes the sun will continue to shine and life goes on. That's awfully cold comfort to a child that has had his or her life turned inside out and upside down.

RLD,

I am not in pain anymore and you are not really that anonymous. I know your story all to well.

I am so glad you're here starting threads, asking questions, making statements and arguments. I think it is a good sign that you are processing this situation in your life as you debate whether to follow through with your divorce petition or recommit to your marriage. As you know, there are a large number of both FWW and BS that can assist you along your journey. I have hope you will come out the other side in a mutually loving fully restored and better marital relationship. That is my hope for you and your family. I do realize that may not be your hope yet or even seem possible to you, but we are trying.

My response to you today is not just about the children but a general response to your posts today. Much of it is adapted from some reading materials so I apologize if it's a little wordy. Disregard if you like.

I agree that the kids are a primary focus and eventually divorced parents should work together in the best interests of the child. I think the key word there is "eventually" as when one marital partner remains fighting for the marriage the best advice is to utilize the children as a magnet to attract back the wayward loved one and to never use the children as a vindictive tool. I fully agree with the posters statements above and as you have no doubt seen many of my legal advice type posts on WOL's thread you must know I feel it is patently unfair for a WS of any gender to break the marital covenant and expect primary custody of the kids and the marital home. You cheat...you leave.

Moving on, it does appear to me that you still blame alot of the problems in your marriage on WOL and that you are arguing that if you could put aside the affair (which we unfortunately never seem to let you do...lol) you feel victimized and controlled in your marriage and entitled to a amicable divorce. I propose to you that perhaps the problem in your marriage isn't your spouse...maybe it's ALL you. Please follow along with the following observation or story.

It's funny how WS's deal with moral failure. Most have spent a lifetime trying to impress others so they can gain recognition and approval. They go with the flow, work hard, put on airs and more often that not feign happiness. Often that drive to perform, fake contentment and/or achieve more and more out of life emanates from the negative identity messages they may have received AND INTERNALIZED as children, messages that they were worthless or undesirable, or that they are not as good or valuable as others.

I've read RLD how your parents treated WOL during the last few years and especially the last 4 months or so. I surmise at one point you've been on the receiving end of the kind of disrespect, anger and/or control your father demonstrated onto WOL a few months ago (I realize also there is likely 2 sides to the story; but, I am not here to argue).

Coninuing with my point, it is those messages, received as children, that create feelings of guilt and hopelessness. They cause a WS (and really anyone) to feel unworthy and helpless. The responses to those negative feelings result in the WS's best attempts to disprove the messages so the negative feelings will just go away. He or she strives to achieve, to maintain perfect order, to have the perfect house and kids. The WS so wants to prove he/she can indeed be acceptable, and that they are not a waste of space; however, in the end their best efforts still end in failure, and they still feel the rejection and unhappiness. No matter what they accomplish, they still feel the void, which in turn makes them feel angry and frustrated. This is because what they do, no matter how impressive it is, will ultimately never make them feel better about who they are or about what happened to them so long ago. So, after being frustrated by the failure of their best efforts to resolve their image problems and people still don't see them the way they want, they ultimately turn to the negative ways of COPING, such as drugs, alcohol, sex, infidelity, money, food, gambling, control, anger, and the list goes on and on.

The biggest problem with the negative approaches to dealing with life is the fallout that occurs as those in their lives begin to discover the betrayal of their relationships with them. Once exposed, they're faced with the hard, cold reality that the initial messages that they received growing up must be true...they are, in fact, worthless, self-centered, and stupid, and have finally successfully proven those negative identity messages to be true.

Thus, in order to salvage a little self-respect, they begin to use their best defense mechanisms to protect themselves just as Adam and Eve did as they were discovered having broken God's rules, they tried mightly to protect their image by blaming. Adam blamed the woman and Eve blamed the serpent. If they could pass the blame, they could push away the bad feelings. Then, as it was no longer about their own failure, they believed they would subsequently be able to avoid judgment and condemnation.

I find on MB that is initially one of the most common responses to infidelity by WS's...blaming, and like Adam, the closest and easiest person for RLD, herein, to blame is WOL. So now you find yourself paralyzed as you attempt to push away your own guilt and avoid taking responsibility for your actions and instead focusing on WOL, his failures, his appearance, his neediness, his "annoyingness", etc. Add to that the unfortunately bad timing of the declining health of ALL those involved (including your Father) and I'm certain your world appears to be caving in upon you and it's got to be SOMEBODIES fault.

Just something to think about. Hope it helps you (or anyone else who ventures here). As I said above, you are processing this information. I am not 2X4'ing you. I am deeply sorry for all the health concerns recently thrust upon your entire family. I wish you all good health and happiness. Just for being here on MB, adjourning the divorce and ending your EA, I commend you.

RLD, you too, will make it through this.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering