Wounded,

I very rarely watch it, but it sounds like your wife is practicing to be on the "Jerry Springer Show". This is the place where they usually have this kind of stuff. Just want to throw in a little chuckle.

I don't want to make light of the situation and your pain. I know all too well what you are going thru. It's so hard when you love someone and they just keep hurting you.

I can't understand why your wife doesn't realize it's wrong what she is doing and hurting everyone else by staying in her relationship. There is no way this OM loves her. What type of future does she see with this man? What will happen to eveyone else if she stays with him - not that I think it will be everlasting? She either stays with you or leaves you and then she can do whatever she wants. The OM should also do the same. Both of them want to "have their cake and eat it too".

Your mom should give a good kick in the pants to her husband. I wonder how many other women would want him? The OM is on his "high" right now, has his wife, his hom, family and a young thang on the side - of course he is staying just where he is.

What do you have - pain, lies, misery, 1/2 wife, tearful/upset mom, upset children - sounds like you got the short end of the stick. You/everyone have to make her understand somehow that the relationsip has to stop, for her own good if anything.

Good luck to you - you'll need all the luck you can get. Keep your chin up - tomorrow is a better day. I wrote back on your post on Gen'l Quest. - Attractivenes,etc. Hope you have a nice holiday.

Mmmm....I think this might be a case where you should have a little private talk with your Step dad and explain what could happen to him if he doesn't stop. Then enforce it.

He cuckolding you because he knows he can get away with it. Are you afraid of him?

I think you should go on the offensive. He should be driven not only out of YOUR family but away from your mother as well. God helps those who help themselves, wounded.

Invite your mother to move in with you, then get a restraining order against him.

He's a sick b******. This is heinous...

My wife wants me to move out so she can figure out who she is and if she is able to love me again (funny how it works this way instead of her leaving so I can decide if I can love her again). I know this move would be terrible for our marriage, and would encourage the A all the more. I would have to do something close to Plan B, unless I knew it would only be for a week or two. She had a phone talk with Dr. Harley this morning, and he of course strongly advised against me moving out right now. I will only stay if she wants me to; it does no good for me to force myself upon her, and would only speed up divorce. I want so much to learn how to better meet her ENs, but she doesn't seem willing to teach me at this time (no motivation -- all her needs are being met by the OM, and she meets most of his even still). I know there is no real reconciliation while the A is still going on. I am working on ending all lovebusters and doing whatever she will let me in meeting her needs, but the A (as a current event and not a past event) stands fully in the way of our marriage and whatever chances we have together and of her even being able to see those chances and hope. The bird in hand looks a lot better to her than anything I have to offer, but I am doing all I can to be the man she would want. It just doesn't seem to be working much, and life by myself is looking better all the time. I don't want to give up yet, because if I do it is over for sure, as she has no hope of her own. Nothing to do but keep trying, holding the course until the winds change or the ship wrecks on the rocks.

"I will only stay if she wants me to"

You are throwing away your choice, hence, your power. You decide your life, your priorities. Your children, I know, need you to stay for you and for them. It cannot speed a divorce...it is not forcing yourself on your WW...it is knowing your limits as a human...you control only yourself and no one else. Please do not throw your choice onto your WW like slime, covering her over with what is yours...that is what she is already doing to you with her choice of an A.

What happened with moving? I swear, I read where you were moving your family away from the folks...just as Harley advises. Exposure to everyone should be immediate, otherwise you are participating in their lies. And your mother, whom you told, has chosen what plan? To stay or go? To have him leave? Her choices matter, too. Is she coming here for support?

You can do much more than holding the course...as you get your LBs eliminated, remember they go both ways...what you will not do to others, you are not allowed to do them to yourself anymore. No more DJs to self, either. You are bending under the weight of a lot of external crud that is stealing your focus...and your internal is paying for that. So are your kids.

Are you doing the listen and repeat? Voluntary O&H? Are you choosing to believe what your WW says as truth or just her truth? Good to know, dangerous to believe?

Tell me about the moving, please...tell me about the wide exposure, a choice you take because you will not lie to others by omission...you can do this.

Let Habiba know I wrote to you...am thinking of her, wish she would come back and listen to how she's not making a choice about her addiction...and it isn't about her love for you at all...but her whole life inside of these moments...stuff long before you met her...and about her power, also.

All her needs are not being met by OM, 1W...please don't do this to yourself...you are the father of her children, her financial security, family commitment and your presence alone means love and faithfulness. Do not discount...all contact must stop...she moves out, not you. And do not make that choice until your intent is pure and not reactive to her.

1W,

Under no circumstances should you move out without a legal separation detailing that you are NOT voluntarily moving and abandoning the children. You need this legal protection. You need visitation set up, and you need to make it clear that OM is to be out of the picture.

If you don't stand up for yourself you will surely lose ALL. God helps those that help themselves 1W and right now you are not helping yourself or your children but letting her make the calls on this marriage. She should leave and OM should be out of the picture.

Please stand up for your children and your marriage.

God Bless,

JL

Talked with Steve Harley this morning. He again advised against me moving out, not so much for custody reasons but for continuing to work on the M. WW does not have any interest in working on our M relationship, and does not see any hope for her being happy with me again. Remotely can see the possibility (more in terms of a miracle) of us getting back together after a separation. Does not admit that the A is preventing her from having hope with me or allowing me to meet her needs. This is normal, but still difficult under her threats of divorce if I stay, divorce if I go. Just like the old Clash song, "Should I stay or should I go now? If I stay there will be trouble; if I go it will be double...." Going prevents us from working on our relationship. Sure it makes her "happy" but so does the adultery with my stepfather. I cannot dance around making her happy; that is not meeting her needs in a mutual relationship. Plan B is to end an affair; it is not simply to make the WS happy. Right now I plan on staying, but also staying out of the way and giving her lots of space to herself. I am not the secret police to watch her every move and to question her, and I am not a parent or judge to give out punishment when she does wrong. I am her husband who loves her and who is laying down my life for her, even if she rejects me and tramples what I give her. I must be the best man I can be (there has been too many LBs from me so far, and those have now stopped from me as of last Thursday). If she files for divorce, that is her choice and freedom to do so, but I will not take steps in that direction. There may be a time for me to move out, and Plan B may be just around the corner (for my sanity more than to make her happy), but I still believe that my place is in this marriage. If I do move out, I for sure will have us sign something stating that she wants me out and I am not abandoning the kids and that I still want our marriage to work. She has agreed to this.
Any more advice? I don't think I have done a great Plan A so far due to the love busters. Maybe if I can go a little while without them and trying to meet her needs, then maybe we will be in a better place. If not and she still files for divorce, I will know that I did my best and improved my love for her more and more, and I can leave this failed marriage knowing I gave her my best and she rejected it completely, and I can heal and go on with my life. To love someone who continues to hurt me so much has only made me stronger and more capable of loving another. Good stuff no matter what happens with us, and maybe she will remember that before I lose all hope and desire for us.

I was asking what happened to your plans to move your family away from OM and your mother?

What happened to those plans?

LA

Those were my plans, and my wife was at one point willing to move, but the next day changed her mind. I cannot and will not force her to move away from the OM, or to establish NC. It has to be her decision. At this point, she wants me to move out "to see if divorce is what she really wants, since it is such a big decision." That kills me, that there is really nothing left after all these years, and after all my efforts in the past months. I negotiated last night for me staying a little longer, not so much to stall or delay the "inevitable" but to continue to do the best Plan A I can, especially without lovebusting. My hope is that if I could do it near perfectly, she might see a little more hope for a happy marriage with me. Otherwise, I told her me leaving would do no good for our marriage and only bring us much closer to divorce (which unfortunately is just what she wants right now). She won't leave, because she wants to be with the kids, but she has no problem asking me to leave and hurt my relationships with them. The other thing I am worried about is if I go, I will give up hope quickly so as to protect myself from further harm and to move on with my life. Then even if she wanted to get back together I might have no desire to. I am turning down a "carefree" life as a bachelor in my 30s to stay in a marriage that is extremely painful for me and for her in the hope that we will work through our problems and the A will be put to death soon. That is the part of love that denies itself, sacrifices self-interest for a better thing. But she does not want that, at least not with me. She clings to the few people (mostly non-Christians) telling her that she would be happier and better off with my stepfather and rejects the many people (mostly Christians) who tell her to keep trying and stay in the marriage and leave the adultery behind. Maybe it's the FOG, maybe she really would be happier and better off without me. I am giving it a last strong effort, and if in a few weeks she still wants me to leave, I probably will, and won't have regrets, and won't hold out hope any longer. God help me to not lose hope now, for I am the only one trying to hold on to our marriage, and I can't do this much longer without some effort from my wife and some progress however small in getting to a better place. Any advice or encouragement would be welcomed by me. I feel so alone. I am not afraid of starting over (I have actually thought positively about that, and that scares me that I am almost done with the marriage) but I am afraid that she will take away any chance to find happiness together. I don't want to despair, but this is the worst place I have been at in my entire life. This woman I love dearly is not only hurting me so deeply but hurting our marriage, and her choices will hurt the kids and others as well. And I don't know what else to do. If I leave, all possibilities of her seeing good in me and having hope for our marriage are gone. But how much longer can I wait? It's like I'm climbing a mountain and it's really difficult, and as long as I can see the top I can keep climbing, but when the clouds obscure everything I lose hope and even can lose my way and fall to my death. The cloud completely covers my wife, and lately I only see glimpses of the goal, like at the beginning of the day, with a view that must carry me through the entire day on a path that gives no reward and no rest. God sustain me, and give me "singleness of eye."

1W,

You have chosen a dangerous perspective...harmful to you and your family. Please choose a different one.

"I negotiated last night for me staying a little longer,"

You are half the marriage. You do not move out...she does...my advice is to move away, as planned, and honor her choice to go or not. Your belief is evil, saying she has to establish and maintain no contact, like a test to pass for your satisfaction. Why not put some lines of cocaine in front of a coke addict, stand with arms crossed, waiting for the addict to fail.

When we choose to love, we choose to be proactive. We cannot make another person choose well for themselves...we can only ask them to, and share our thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

She is an addict lost in an addiction. Yet you take her words as the truth instead of her addicted truth...the fog, the lies...all tell you not to believe her, hold her to her words...instead of listening and repeating them to her, leaving them in her hands, where they belong.

You are doing that to her and to yourself...please stop.

"to see if divorce is what she really wants, since it is such a big decision."

"I hear you believe separating will help you to choose to divorce or not and to you, divorce is a big decision, is that correct?"

"Yes."

"Would you like me to get your suitcases down?"

Her choice, her action...you have your choices. Know them. Disowning your choices is disowning your life...which adds evil into your marriage...God doesn't let us not choose...to not choose, to believe you're being forced, is not abdication of choice...it is choosing not to choose.

You were going to move to protect your family. Your choice. If she chooses not to go, you're still moving to protect your family.

Choosing between her wanting to be with the kids and be with your STF is a real consequence to her A. It is what WS's have to choose between...so it is out of the question for her to stay and you to leave...that would be condoning the A, saying it poses no danger to your children (which it does) and that you are making her choices for her.

"I am turning down a "carefree" life as a bachelor in my 30s to stay in a marriage that is extremely painful for me"

This has no children in your choice of perspective. This is unreal, coming from pain, and does harm, nonetheless.

Read DazedandConfused's thread, completelylost's thread...so many more, just like you, same circumstances, different perspectives...love their wives and families just as much...choose less pain, respect, and don't LB themselves or their wives.

You will leave in a few weeks, by your own choice, abandon your family, if she decides to divorce? How does that make any sense? That would be saying, "Okay, honey...I know this is destroying everyone, but I'll leave you and the kids in the sinking ship, since that is what you want."

Save your children...what matters is what you example...you are the one demonstrating love as a choice...actions we choose...not your WW...you leaving them in her care examples to them that when love runs out, run...which is what they will do as they grow every minute believing love won't last for them or in them...that everything ends, is taken away, and when the pain is enough, run.

This perspective you are choosing has her with all the power...and you with none. This is a falsehood you are telling yourself to feel blameless, when you feel a lot of blame. What would you choose if you didn't feel blame? What would you choose as your perspective if you chose to believe you ARE half the marriage, half the power, and are separate and equal to your WW?

You chose to see this as waiting instead of being proactive, responsible, powerful, sowing what you will reap...improving yourself and your life...your choice.

Stop focusing on her and save your marriage through YOUR changes...they are independent of hers right now. They are for your God, you and your children.

Your singleness of eye is on your WW...and it will kill your marriage.

Read "Boundaries in Marriage" Cloud & Townsend (put a little Cloud around yourself)...concentrate and focus, rely on God and those who have been in your shoes. You can only control you...see yourself and your choices and stop throwing them like mud at your WW...she's lost herself. She can find herself if you stop shoving your choices away from you.

LA

1W,

IF you ever want to see your kids again and actually be their father, YOU WILL NOT LEAVE until there is a legal separation agreement in place. She will clean you out and your step-father will assist here in every way possible including lying about you, making false claims, everything.

You are a complete fool if you do not realize the danger your family is in, and by this I mean your children. You need to protect them and that means being proactive. You need to see a lawyer NOW, and start to do what you can to make sure OM has as little influence on them as you can manage. To do anything else is NOT Christian. IF there is one thing manifest in the Bible and the New Testament, it is that the children should be protected and YOU are not doing this.

You are selfishly feeding your own dispair. YOu are selfishly focusing on your pain, and frankly you are NOT working on your marriage. Every constructive thing you have mentioned you have NOT followed through on. YOu worry about making your W unhappy. Well, Buddy, she will never be happy with you if you don't grow a backbone and FIGHT to protect your children. You won't even be happy with you.

You are hiding your fear behind your religion. When your religion should be leading you toward ACTIONS, and that includes legal actions.

You need to step back and really really think about this and quit feeling sorry for yourself. You can do that on your own time, it is time to do your best to protect your family and that means getting custody and keeping OM away from them.

What has your mother decided to do about this "man" she is married to? HOw is she holding up? I hope better than you.

Please think about this, and then proactive or you will lose more than you can seem to imagine right now.

God Bless,

JL

As to a move away, how would I do that without my wife's aggreement? I mean with the kids. I know it's not like kidnapping them, especially when I wholeheartedly invited her to join us, and prepare a decent home for us all to live in. But what if in the process of moving, she files for legal separation and for partial or full custody of the kids? At what point do I quit my job and try to move with the kids?
I have gotten some advice from a lawyer; maybe I need to ask more questions of him.
I have been trying to give my wife more space, taking the kids out or being gone a bit myself. That is my compromise instead of leaving, so that I can continue to try to meet her needs as much as she allows while still being with my kids and working on myself. I don't despair completely, but sometimes I sink a little, like Peter walking on the water maybe. I still have a lot of hope for our marriage, and know my part is to love and be strong and faithful. I am not responsible for how my wife feels, but I can encourage good feelings at least, making the conditions right for her to fall in love with me again. If not, I did all I could and did not fail at the end. Harley told us that the affair happenned not because of unmet needs but because she did not guard her own weaknesses, did not watch out for temptations that she would be more inclined towards maybe. We are all weak in some ways, and anyone could have an affair given the right circumstances. We must be on our guard, and know ourselves and our needs and weaknesses. I only wish we knew years ago what we know now, but that is life! We learn and grow as we progress on our ways.
Thanks for the advice/rebukes, etc! Keep it coming!

choosing an affair with a close family member is waaaay beyond "weak"

in-family infidelity shows a completely different level of selfish entitlement enabeling a person to hurt others in order to have selfish desires fulfilled

Well, 1W...you bring up a good point...and a weak one. You both were planning on moving away when she was mortified by her actions, correct? It was a joint plan.

Why not do it anyway? Say, "Hey, we agreed on this...ready to go?" She would then have to take legal action to stop you...or come along.

She is WW...but her head did come up for air in between...that is unusual to me...I know she is sensitive to judgment, image--and she is at war within herself...no excuses...so she might do it.

Respecting her would be not ASSUMING she won't.

"is to love and be strong and faithful." I would like to see you be respectful from love, strong in separate and equal, and faithful to your own self care and growth. This gets you a stellar Plan A...which doesn't negate you moving.

The place you were going to move to, it was within weeks, I thought, after finding out about the A...it was before you were going to expose to your mother...there had to be a plan...knowing where you were moving to, how you were going to do it, right? Before Habiba chose to continue her A?

Doublecheck yourself on the space giving idea...are you thoroughly sure that no part of you is avoiding her and the pain her presence, words and choices represent?

I always vote for injecting respect into your relationship, from your side, listening and repeating, and putting a hopper on your head to be able to do this. Staying present is really important. I believe in you spending time with the kids, working out...but not being gone with the only intent to be gone. No self care there...just some confusing false self-protection. Find productive relief and own it...stay present...with a commitment to simple O&H statements in passing...

I was gonna do my thing and give you one and I came up with nothing. Wait! I'll use yours...

"I believe if I knew years ago what I know now, our marriage would be amazing. Are we out of ketchup?"

These are like O&H drive-bys...you do them not to manipulate but to show yourself you are open and honest, require yourself to share, even when you feel most vulnerable. That's demonstrating commitment...not talking about it.

And have you exposed to everyone? All family, both sides, friends, etc.? Seems like putting truth where it needs to be is important, where you acknowledge what is real and respect others enough to do so with you.

LA

I am trying to do a great Plan A, but I am losing and fear that Plan B or worse will be just around the corner. But then I have had these thought before, months ago. I need to be better about not talking about the A or even my mom and her as-yet husband. I need to say no every time my wife wants to talk about these things, and then maybe we both won't continue to say dumb things we regret.
To keep my sanity, when I go to Plan B do I basically consider us divorced, or do I still hold on to the ever diminishing hope that I alone have? Unfortunately, I am beginning to look forward to the freedom and lower frustration I will have when I am out of this relationship, and I don't know if I will be able to keep any love and hope when that separation happens. It's not quite a definite thing (at least it is still in the future, if only some days or weeks away) but nothing I am doing is making any difference in her, and without even a little hope or turning I cannot continue much longer. But then maybe I can, like a runner who just keeps taking steps and finds more strength as he goes. That is my hope anyways.
Not doing so well today. My thoughts are all jumbled and stuck. Me leaving might help that (though I doubt it would help our marriage at all, and would actually speed us toward divorce). Maybe I'm not doing Plan A well enough, or maybe it's not working for us, maybe we are too far gone now. I don't know anymore.

(((1W))))

"I am trying to do a great Plan A, but I am losing and fear that Plan B or worse will be just around the corner."

Key element of Plan A...breathing. Breathe. Breathe a LOT. Deeply. Learn to calm yourself and your fear, by breathing. Stay present. When we breathe, we give ourselves no choice but to fully be in the present.

We don't lose in Plan A...so I'm not sure what you mean. Do you see this as Plan A winning your WW back? Or is your premise to change yourself, look at your half of the marriage, find your power, your choices, and define your standards and boundaries?

Plan B, Harley says, is about protecting your love from disappearing completely, after your best Plan A...I believe Plan B comes in a natural course to Plan A...because in Plan A, you change your beliefs, choose your perspective, own your stuff as your own and unshoulder what is not yours...so that when all the changes you make in you for you really begin to kick in together, and you breathe, know, teach yourself what isn't yours, what is harmful from you to you, then you see your marriage better, find the room to choose to love rather than earn it; and when the abuse from you has stopped and your partner's continues, then Plan B is a boundary about you, that you enforce, with compassion and respect...not manipulation, retaliation, or knee-jerk self-protection.

My beliefs. If you cannot be strong in Plan A, you will fail Plan B...because you haven't gotten the separateness, the equalness set in your beliefs.

"But then I have had these thought before, months ago. I need to be better about not talking about the A or even my mom and her as-yet husband. I need to say no every time my wife wants to talk about these things, and then maybe we both won't continue to say dumb things we regret."

How about the goal for you to become safe...no judgment, no AOs or DJs...so that what you speak is your own truth, and when you listen, you are listeninng and repeating, not bringing your WW's truths into you where they are toxic?

"To keep my sanity, when I go to Plan B do I basically consider us divorced, or do I still hold on to the ever diminishing hope that I alone have?"

Harley's Plan B is to lovingly go dark...to leave the trail back to the marriage by stating your love, your belief it is worth protecting, and no contact except through a third-party is allowed; and to come back there must be no contact, transparency, a recommitment to the marriage, and counseling...or the conditions of your choice. All done with love and respect. If it takes legal action to remove her from the home, then that is what you must take. You do not leave the home, for to do so is to say that you believe adultery does not harm your children, and you know it does. If you truly believe your WW is in a fog, as we believe WS's are when they have contact, then you cannot justify leaving your children for any reason in her care.

If she will leave of her own accord, choosing her A over her children, which is the true state of WS's (and you're talking to a FWW), then you won't need legal action, just to move her possessions out and to give her your Plan B letter.

"Unfortunately, I am beginning to look forward to the freedom and lower frustration I will have when I am out of this relationship,"

Know that you are doing to you--same as a WS does...consoling through fantasy, fantasy future is still fantasy, instead of holding your pain and fear, learning about them and acting in spite of them. Many sabotage their own Plan A's in this way...you only have the present. Stay here.

"and I don't know if I will be able to keep any love and hope when that separation happens. It's not quite a definite thing (at least it is still in the future, if only some days or weeks away) but nothing I am doing is making any difference in her,"

Here you haven't cleared your own DJs up...you are still supposing, mindreading and assuming. If you want clarity for your choices, please work to eliminate these. It is tough and I am not judging you--only showing you how you're kicking your own tushy...and your tushy doesn't like it.

Be clear on this--IF you are changing your image to get your WW back, then you will fail. If you are changing your self to become a respectful and mature person, recognizing yourself for the way God made you--whole, complete, wonderfully made--then you will succeed in anything. You doing it for you, for the love of yourself, which will example to your children and ripple throughout your life in ways you cannot imagine yet...that is the key to Plan A.

Does your WW work? Have you exposed to her work? How about WSF's family?

"and without even a little hope or turning I cannot continue much longer." Please place that hope where it belongs, with God and you...in you, for you.

"But then maybe I can, like a runner who just keeps taking steps and finds more strength as he goes. That is my hope anyways." Yes! Yes! You can do this...Plan A with Endorphins...yes! You are running for yourself and your children. Worthy causes. Collect your own rewards in your belief of doing the right thing may be hard...but it is almost impossible if with the wrong intent.

"Not doing so well today. My thoughts are all jumbled and stuck. Me leaving might help that (though I doubt it would help our marriage at all, and would actually speed us toward divorce)."

Please know this is the exact reasoning WS's leave...to clear their minds, when in reality, it is to relieve pain in the quickest way possible.

"Maybe I'm not doing Plan A well enough, or maybe it's not working for us, maybe we are too far gone now. I don't know anymore." Find out your premise in life, 1W...are you here to be loved or are you here to love? Would learning how to love like God loves be worth this journey?

On your side, no condemnation or judgment...no attacks...straight support,

LA

Plan A is going better IMHO, though no real feedback from my wife. Things are almost pleasant around the house. I am still looking for some hope or sign of change in our relationship, and needing that to continue w/ Plan A. From my perspective, I cannot or will not stay indefinitely in a relationship where I am not wanted, and where none of my needs are being met, and with some history of those needs not being freely met and my own attempts at meeting her needs have often missed the mark (eg. compliments that never build her up). At some point I have to say, "Oh well, she is losing a great man, and I have done all I can do." But I have lasted much longer than I expected to, so perhaps I will keep finding my strength from God long enough to make a difference in my marriage. If we can just reach a point where she is in the relationship fully, then we will be able to reach higher ground.
I know that whatever happens, I am becoming a much better man, whether for my present wife, or a future woman, or simply to be "single to the Lord." It is so painful to know that the OM is still a part of her life, but the only choices I have are to stay and be better than him, or to leave (or force her to leave). Really no way to avoid pain in any direction, so the best thing is to keep walking the high road. "The noble man makes noble plans, and by noble deeds he stands." (from Isaiah 30 something)
I feel I can do this for some weeks to come, so I will hold the course and see what comes.
I am operating under the premise of not expecting anything from my wife -- no needs met, no faithfulness, no honesty or openness, no commitment, no respect or admiration or love, and no future. This with a whole lot of forgiveness and my own "strength to journey on" keeps me going each day, plus the knowledge that if it all works it would be better for the kids and for us both. I need to follow my own conscience whether or not those around me do the same. And sometimes there can be more than one path to the same goal.
To those struggling like me, keep the hope alive, but find your strength in God, not your spouse. To those who have been where I am and have gotten to a better place (whatever that is) keep posting and encouraging us. Thanks!

1W,

Nothing will change until contact with OM ceases. I am glad you are making progress with Plan A, it will make plan B more effective. Please see a lawyer and get info on what you will need to do to protect yourself and your children.

God Bless,

JL

Already seen a lawyer. Basically, since we would agree to share custody, we might not even need much in the legal area, except to define a separation if/when that comes. It will be soon, by her request. She wants space, whether to continue the A or to find herself or whatever. Me staying, even doing a great Plan A and having things mostly pleasant around the home (IMO), she still feels the little love she has left is being squelched by me even living in the same house. Ideally, she would leave without the kids for a while to figure things out. But since she won't leave without them, I will be the one, as long as custody/child support are defined and agreed upon. She doesn't want to go all the way through a divorce yet, and even thinks that me leaving will help the A to end and her to renew her love for me. I have serious doubts, but since I cannot and will not force her to love me/stay with me, not much else I can do but begin Plan B or something close to it. At the least, she wants me to be with our kids a lot, and (right now) wouldn't mind me being at home in the evenings or all together somewhere else sometimes, just not sleeping there or being there all the time (which I wouldn't want in that situation -- I will need my own space too and have many issues to sort out). The more I cultivate an independent life and develop myself, the better I will be either for a renewal of our marriage or surviving a divorce.
Any advice on Plan B? Complete separation or only partial? I am steeling myself for a long haul, as her feelings for OM are deeply entrenched (as they were for me at one time!) and he shows absolutely no respect for our marriage. They are both weak right now, so I will continue to be strong and gain strength. I believe with all my heart that my wife is losing a very good man in me, and maybe she will know this fully before it's too late.
I am reading Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" and it has been very helpful; I encourage anyone in a similar situation to read it, as it applies most directly to saving a marriage where there has been infidelity.
I'll update in a few days. Pray for my will to be set, and for my love to endure the continuing trials to come.

Plan B,

is a good thing for you. However, you will need an intermediary to handle communications about children. Perhaps Email, and some place to pick them up and drop them off. Normally your mother and step father would be good choices, but not in your case. Please think about this. Frankly, if you separate she will not use this time to think, she will use it to be with OM more and more. There is nothing you can do about that, but not having it in your face will help you.

Plan B is for when the affair continues and her certainly is. So read up on it, set up your plans as well as legal issues with regard to separation, and find an intermediary for dealing with the children.

Your W is a fool, but there is nothing any of us can do about it. How is your mother doing? What decisions has she made?

God Bless,

JL

Please consider that Habiba chose her A...it's all hers. So this line of reasoning "She doesn't want to go all the way through a divorce yet, and even thinks that me leaving will help the A to end and her to renew her love for me." is delusion and dangerous.

She chooses to not end the A, to not renew her love and to not honor her marriage, even when she doesn't feel love for you right now. Humans can choose to do all of that...she isn't choosing.

Your power is what you agree to believe...please do not take this poison, this toxic waste to guide your choices. Yours are yours, just as hers are only hers.

This is respectful.

1W...tell me this...how safe do you feel with OM/STF around your kids? How dangerous to them is it for Grandpa to be Mom's guy while you live elsewhere? To me, you staying, her leaving, is taking care of the innocents...that's why I say her choice is toxic...if this were an unknown OM...would you want him around your children? No. Do not do so now...because he is your STF, he is choosing to leave his grandchildren, also...A's do that. Part of the choices made by AP's (affair partners)...

Sleep at home and guard your children...get a restraining order against OM/STF...do what it takes to guard your children and own your choices...and leave her to own hers. She's fully capable. She is choosing her A over her children.

And if you choose to go...know that's for your own space, not your children's. That's for you cutting your pain down, the worst hurt of your life...be honest about your choices, to yourself and others.

You see a lawyer for your rights...what can you do to stay and her to go...not for making it an easy, shared-custody divorce. Respect her, 1W...she has to find her own lawyer, fill her own requests...not you. Isn't part of Plan A at all.

Be noble in your deeds through truth. Reality is she is making the choice of OM over children. Be strong and noble and get her out.

LA