Hi BTE,

I always read your threads with interest. And I seem to recall you saying you didn't really like the book "You don't have to take it anymore" by Stosny, is that right? I just finished it for the first time, and loved it. My husband is going to read part of it, too, and then we're both going to work through the "bootcamp" section.

I don't know if you finished it, and ended up not like it or not (I would love to know), but if you didn't like it-- I wonder if you failed to read it with an eye towards your OWN resentment. Because you often sound to me like you have lots of resentment towards your husband... and your life perhaps.

What do you think about that?

Hi ya Telly! How are things in regards to your move coming along?

It sounds like you and your husband are really improving in your marriage.

I have read the book, I am still not overly thrilled with it. I have been discussing it with a few people on a different site, some who have actually taken classes on it by Stonsy.

I am copying and pasting my response to the book from over there.



Actually, I did do this. At least I think this is what you are saying lol. I read it with the mindframe that I am the abuser, afterall, I truly am the one that does the most damage to the marriage. I read it in regards to changing me and the way I react and get angry and so forth.

I think one of the biggest challenges to me is I am not a supporter of the whole inner child theory. I don't like using the past as an excuse for behavior today. To me that means, that the past is controlling me. The same ideas I have is probably what makes it so hard for me to move forward. Because I don't want to admit how much the past has shaped me I can't deal with it to move on. Uggg that was confusing wasn't it. I hope you can decipher it lol..

Here is something else I wrote over there as we were talking about the book


I realize I probably don't like the book because it's real and its hard to deal with all that "stuff". I haven't given up on it or tossed it to the side. I read and work on it here and there. It's always in the back of my mind. Maybe one day I will love it.

Part of the problem is I am so used to my anger it is a part of me, not a part I am proud of, that I don't see any other way. I don't believe that I am heard or loved enough for someone to listen to me and hear me if I am not screaming and yelling. Ok, I'm just amental case lol.

That's probably more than ya asked for, but I'm good at rambling on.

((((BTE))))

Hi BTE,

I typed a whole long reply last night, and it wouldn't post... then I lost it.

I was too mad to type a whole new one, but I will later today.

Thanks for your honest reflections.

Lightbulb moment! When I did the Flylady 30 day intro, one of the first assignments was to write down the neagative messages we gave ourselves for one week. Then each time, look at the message and turn it around to be positive. I think I may have told you already what my negative messages were, so I'll get to the point. If you took this statement and turned it around, what would you get?

"I am so heard and loved that I never need to scream or yell again."

Thanks eo, I am working on changing my beliefs.

Dh and I went out last night, had a nice time. Pleasant. This morning he was upset again. Said I am distant, that everything seems forced with me. He is tired of it. I understand his feelings I really do. I also understand, that what he is saying is true. It is forced, for the most part I would rather be alone than spend time with him. HE asked if I had feelings for him, I told him I care about him, he said hecared about the dog. I've told him before that no I'm not in love with him, I havea lot of love for him, but there's no real feelings there. He doesn't like the fact that I don't like to freely give hugs and kisses. It feels like a lie when I do. I have been trying to fake it til I make it, like he said, somethings can't be faked.

BTE, you're a woman of faith, have you ever had a spell or a period of time where you didn't have that faith? And you kept going through the motions, and then got that faith back? Do you think love for a spouse could be like that? That you could "fake it 'till you make it," until that love bank filling brings the love bank back to positive?

LA recently talked to me about praying to be open to where the Lord leads me in regards to my job search. I am trying this with my marriage perspective, too, asking the Lord to help me be open to trusting my H again, to open my eyes to the things that will help me believe.

Yes, I believe love can come back. I just can'te tell him when. He is tired of living like this. I understand what he is saying. All I can tell him is he has to make a choice with the information he has. He doesn't like the choices, says he only sees 2, divorce or continue to live like this and hope things get better.

I really believe we are just prolonging the inevitable, divorce. We are just dancing around it, both to scared to make the choice, the what if's. I see marriage like a business something that gets done because it has to, he wants intimacy and love and all that other stuff. I see sex and a phsyical thing, he wants an emotional connection.

It's just getting old. All of this....

No, you can't tell him when you will feel the love you know you have...

"I've told him before that no I'm not in love with him, I havea lot of love for him, but there's no real feelings there."

but you can tell him it is your highest priority. You want to feel that love as much as he wants to feel loved.

Anger, resentment, pain and fear pile over love...obscure it from being felt...you know this...a lot of feelings of love can be buried under what you put on top...because you don't put love on the top of your list.

By choice.

Your H is feeling that choice...and resenting it...this dance builds the same feelings in both partners, through different ways...reacting to reaction...only takes one to stop. When the choices become more pain or divorce, you know your marriage is filled to the brim with pain...because there are many other choices inbetween...you can't see, for the pain.

LA

Hi Happy! I responded the other day to this post and it got lost in the big black whole of the internet, so here I am again lol...



I understand this, but the Bible also states in I Corinthians 7:4-5 " The wifes body does not eblong to her alone but also to her husband IN the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. DO not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer."

I am sure this is where poja comes in. I know as my the wife it is my job to satisfy my husband, after all the one reason people marry is so that they aren't tempted to sin and have premarital sex. At the same time, I don't enjoy being touched...

Hi Loving! Thanks for stopping by.



This is what scares me, it's not my highest priority. I'm am comfortable where I am at. I have to work through this to get where it is my highest priority.



I'm trying to figure out if there is anything covering it up. I'm not angry at him anymore. I've realized I made choices, he didn't make me make those choices. I don't resent him for where I am any longer. I can change where I am at when I'm ready to. Fear, perhaps, but I'm not sure. I honestly just don't feel for him like I used to. I remember when I couldn't wait to hear his voice, spent hours on the phone talking, when I looked at him and the world seemed perfect. Now, I get annoyed that he calls me from work all day, the feelings aren't there. I'm not sure I fear loving him. If he was to hurt me again, well, that's his choice, I can and will survive it. I am ok, by myself. Maybe that's just it and part of the reason I've been so scared to change, because I knew I would realize, I don't need to put up with this. I am lovable and capable of taking care of myself. I don't need anyone else to know that I am loved and to feel complete.



I think he is finally to this point. WHere he knows it has to stop or divorce will be soon. I am past this point. I have shut down and shut out, and have focused on me. Becoming who I want to be regardless of what he does. It's a long road, I am just starting the journey.

Yet, I'm comflicted. Conflicted with wanting to be my own person and what the Bible does say. I have been wanting to ask you about that. You speak of seperate but equal, but the Bible states that two shall become one. So how do you stay seperate if you are supposed to be one? Maybe I am reading too much into equal but seperate, not sure.

I speak of separate and equal...no buts... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Two whole people making one union...not one completing the other.

Jesus is present when two or more are gathered in his name...

On EO's thread...a light came on for me...we can shut ourselves down in our marriages...long to part to be whole...when we're whole all along...because we are begun in a relationship...with God...and born into one...with our caregiver...and create a union, not only to keep from having premarital sex, but to take our intimacy of one, sharing with our partner, into a holy union.

Would you be uncomfortable choosing to make love your highest priority? Choosing to act lovingly? You do this with your children, and they don't earn it. Can you not choose to act this way with your H? Is this why you don't feel it?

What there was once between you can be again...and again. When you loved hearing his voice, talking on the phone for hours, the world seemed perfect...perfectly safe? Phase I of relationships is when you are both sharing your best selves...thriving on having found each other, acting love in a thousands ways, like breathing...

Phase II becomes sharing real selves...even being present while each of you finds more of their real selves to share...broken trust, fear, feeling unsafe to do so can stop us, creating retaliation, alienation, distance...false safety...instead of choosing to share, anyway.

Phase III is worth it all, I believe...that two complete people becoming one, intimately, with full acceptance, understanding and acknowledgement. Can't get there without fully knowing and being known...being safe.

Only you can know why you are annoyed by him...it's about you, not him. I know in me, annoyance comes from resentment, thwarted expectations, comparing others to myself or others, creating my own discontent in wishful thinking...and wishful isn't wonderful. It's deadly.

What has to stop or divorce?

LA

Thank you for the clarification.



It's not really a matter of acting lovingly, things in general aren't hostile or awful in our home. Most people even think we are happily married. We do nice things for each other, (sometimes lol), we help each other out, we spend time together. It stops there. I know part of the problem is in MB terms low love banks, it's the annoying habits that I have asked him to stop over and over. The using my towel and leaving it laying around, using my toothbrush, waking up for work at 4am and slamming dresser drawers shut, having to wake me to find stuff, the not dressing properly for his size. I'm drained of it. I'm tired of going in circles over and over again. I know, we can't go in circles if I just stop. I don't know how to respond to some of it though. He says I don't have fun anymore, I think he acts like our 7 year old. It's listening to him fight with the kids, it's just a combination of it all.



What happens in this phase when you realize you don't necessarily like the real person?



Yes you are right, there is a lot of wishful thinking on my part.



Actually, I probably should say it has to start or divorce. He wants more physical touch from me, affection, sex. If I had sex with him more often he would probably overlook everything else. [

Good morning, BTE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



I think the difference is whether you are acting out of love or out of duty -- are you doing these nice things for him because you WANT to, or because you feel like you HAVE to? There is such an enormous difference in acting from love, even if you take the same actions -- they just feel different.



I know I keep pointing people to Al Turtle, but seriously, I love his site! He has a section that addresses what LA is talking about in detail, how you start out trying to be the perfect partner, and you sacrifice parts of yourself so that your partner will love you, which is the same as the state of Intimacy, in MB terms. But eventually resentments start to build and your Taker gets sick of all the giving, and you start to want to get back to being yourself, your true self. According to Turtle, this is the point where you start to create space in the relationship (Conflict and/or Withdrawal). This lets you be yourself again, but pulls you away from your partner in the process. The final stage is where you learn to form "a team, a partnership. But it is a very special kind of partnership. It is a community which values the Integrity of each participant."

Here's the link if you want to read more: Map of Relationships



Do you truly believe this, that all he wants is sex? Even though he is also telling you that he wants an emotional connection, that he wants to feel that you want him around, that he wants to feel loved? Is this really your truth?

It's probably a combination of the both. I see the difference you are talking about though. I picked up two pair of new shorts for him yesterday, partly because I wanted to, partly because he complains I never get anything for him. I brought him lunch the other day at work, because I want to do nice things for him and because he asked me to. Usually, I tell him no. I am trying.

I will take a look at that site in a bit. Right now I have contractors in and out of my house, they can't seem to tell their head from there rear end and my house usualy ends up worse than it was before they started.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />



He gets more from sex than just sex. It's a huge emotional connection for him. He wants physical touch, yes he probably wants more, but he would deal with getting less if he was being kissed and having sex.

Isn't it a DJ to say that he complains? (LA, am I right here?) Because instead of saying that HE SAYS you never get anything for him you are JUDGING him as complaining/whining/whatever. What do you think?

Yesterday, my H mentioned that he was hungry, and without even being asked, I decided to make him a snack. I am pretty sure this is the first time I have ever done that in our entire marriage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I mean, if I'm hungry, I get myself something, and he can do the same, right? LOL.

I can't even describe the look on his face when he found ME making something for HIM. He was absolutely delighted.

The reason I'm telling you this story is that, for me, it really showed the difference between acting out of love (I WANTED to do it) rather than out of duty (wanting to WANT to do it). And your H can probably tell the difference, too. WHAT do you is important, but WHY and HOW you do it are also important.

Hey, where did Telly go? I was looking forward to reading what she had to say over the weekend.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, HTBH...judging another person's belief as complaining...informing is what he did...and BTE heard it as complaining.

Great story, HTBH...finding out you could get a thrill, feel love, by doing something as an act of love...well, doubled your feeling, didn't it? Your H's response added...because it wasn't why you did it...you had no idea how he would respond...you were choosing your action...

People don't find joy. They make it.

There's a big difference in pleasing and acting from love. You are seeing the difference.

Wow.

LA

You are probably right. I just see it that if he wants something go buy it himself. I told you I don't get all this stuff. It seems like entirely too much work, some say eventually it comes naturally. To me, it seems, I can't say anything he does wrong, it's all about me, if I'm that screwed up, just shoot me now.



Exactly. Except, if I am making myself something I ask if he wants something. I have two children, I don't need third.



Me too. I know she is in the process of a pretty big move, it's summer, easy to get busy.

BTE,

About the complaining/informing...

I believe you do not know where your truth ends and his begins.

H says, "You NEVER buy me anything...I have holey underwear, my socks are worn through...you never think of me." Sounds like complaining. It isn't. Hear the inner child (which I know you don't believe, yet I'm going to example why it isn't an excuse, it's part of our design, and there's a reason for it)...in the word "never"? This is how you know this is your H's truth, not THE truth. No need to act to negate his truth, is there? It's his.

When you're firmly in this mindset, then you buying those shorts would have completely been because you wanted to--because you chose to act from love. No duty, negation or proving him wrong...because there is no right or wrong to what he said. What he believed, felt...is his. Was that your attempt to make him stop believing, feeling that?

When you see others as complaining, then you see it in yourself...you may not inform, share or volunteer because you DJ them...you DJ yourself.

Our inner children...come from many different stages...and are part of us...no excuse, nothing to absolve...they are in us. Large amounts of fear gets you younger and younger; same with anger (usually after fear); more extreme the emotion, the youngest inner child is reached...and believe it or not, craving infancy as happiness, extremely content, isn't unusual nor wrong. Just is.

When you hear or use absolutes, you're in the perspective your inner child (or others) closer than to your adult experience...everything, anything, never, always, nothing, all, nowhere, everywhere...I think you get the idea. These are guides, not judgments...just as we make mistakes and can't be one; we can act childlike, not being childish. They can look the same...fact remains, respect the adult human, separate and equal.

Why isn't our inner children excuses for bad behavior? Because we need our inner kids, as they are, to grow fully into adults...without acknowledging, understanding and being there for them, we run from our lives...and knowing them, we stay in touch with our playful, mischevious, creative and creating selves, along with a lot of the impatient, anger, fearful and stubborn villagers in self. All for reasons...as necessary as air...not defective or wrong.

LA

Ok so he informed me I don't ever buy him anything. What am I supposed to do with the information if I don't agree? Or I don't want to be responsible for buying him stuff? If it's said once it's informing? If it's said over and over again, then what is it?



I used to do these kinds of things, but they weren't appreciated. Every night before I went to bed I would lay out his undershirt, underwear, socks and boots. he never asked me to do it, I did becuase I knew it made his morning easier. I dont' ever remember being thanked once for it. It became expected, that's when there is no joy in it anymore. I used to iron all of his uniforms, it became expected, I stopped. I used to bake all of his favorite cookies, even the ones I hated cooking, because I knew how happy it made it, then he started complaining, (wait he shared with me) that they weren't quite right, not quite how he wanted them, I stopped.

He realized I stopped everything I used to do. Now he asks, sometimes I might do it, sometimes I won't, now it seems like a chore. I don't want to do it anymore.