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This is where MB could take a lesson from AA or Al-Anon

newbies are actively DIScouraged from mentoring other newbies ....

newbies are advised to get a sponsor

a sponsor with experience and know-how

~some very special~ newbie FWW feel they are are entitleded to offer "marriage" advice not only to newbie FWW >>> but to the confused betrayed spouse as well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Do you think a drunk alcoholic is tolerated sitting down at an AA meeting and mouthing off telling everyone that the AA 12-steps really are a cult and there are only 7 steps worth taking???

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As you know, my H has 10 years sobriety ... he says they "escort" some drunks out of the room ... and invite them to return to AA where open arms will greet them when they are not drunk !!!!

Last edited by Pepperband; 03/30/06 11:52 AM.
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I have answered all those questions on other threads: it would be helpful to read those. As for the AA comparison, if I entered the foray advocating continuing the A, then I could understand the "drunk" analogy. I'm not: merely differences in details.

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Get an MB sponsor .... a FWW who has experience and know how ... pick out someone who has what you want ....a healthy thriving recovered marriage instead of another FWW who has no perceptible skills at marriage building.

Last edited by Pepperband; 03/30/06 12:03 PM.
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A very good point, Pep, about the blind leading the blind.

Just for the sake of discussion, I am interested in your opinion about...

Quote
he says they "escort" some drunks out of the room ... and invite them to return to AA where open arms will greet them when they are not drunk !!!!


That makes obvious sense, BUT in this analogy wouldn't a foggy WS be comparable with a "dry drunk" alcoholic? What criteria would someone in a fog need to meet?

I agree that you can't help someone who isn't willing to listen. Sometimes, though, it seems like someone isn't listening, when in fact they actually are. They just may not respond immediately, as change is a process.

(btw, I am interested in your space for rent. What can you tell me about it?)

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Yes...

in MB

a dry drunk would be a wayward who is in withdrawl and needs much handholding to stay "sober"

but we get our share of drunk ones who come her saying they have confessed to their spouse and yet ... they are still in their affair .... even if it's just their baby toe ... allowing themselves an occasional email or a drive-by ....

Look for humility Froz ... rock bottom ready to grow up waywards are sick of themselves and are HUMBLE

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My space for rent is ready to place your ad .... what do you want it to say???

You are my first customer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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sfjaj,

If you don't like the AA analogy (and I happen to think it's excellent) how about this:

You're REbuilding your house after a fire. Everything has been destroyed. You can get hugs from your neighbors and family, and that's a nice thing, but you're going to need experts to help you REbuild it, otherwise you will have walls falling down around you. It will *look* like it's rebuilt perhaps, but it won't be strong.

Get your comfort from your friends and those who are going through what you're going through... but get skilled workers to help with the rebuilding.



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Pep - I had to modify your quote as it was too long - but I had to make it my new signature <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
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Pep - I had to modify your quote as it was too long - but I had to make it my new signature <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

yikes!!!

Keep the quote

remove my name

otherwise it looks like I am asking to be everyone's sponsor

LOL

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This is where MB could take a lesson from AA or Al-Anon

newbies are actively DIScouraged from mentoring other newbies ....

newbies are advised to get a sponsor

a sponsor with experience and know-how

I like that idea - I think it would work well for both the WS and the BS, since the BS often has to wake up to a reality they don't want to face (I know I did...and in some ways probably still have things to wake up to).

I have noticed that given threads do seem to attract a "core" group of posters, and this "core" group does change from thread to thread, so there appears to be some level of sponsorship in some cases.

I've been following this thread since it started. It's been...interesting, to say the least. I'm definately a newbie around here (registered late December last year), and I don't think MP and I are quite in recovery yet...

When I came to the boards, exposure had pretty much already been done - I had done some, and MP had done some. Does everybody know? Nope. In fact, very, very few know all the details and backstory. In our case, it didn't (at least so far) do much to end the affair.

What it did do, and I haven't seen that addressed much in this thread, was get MP and myself a lot of support and prayer. Support of us, as a married couple, and our marriage - not support of the affair or the actions we both took that led to our marriage being ripe for an affair - by either one of us.

Has the exposure fractured friendships? In some cases, yes. Are the fractures unrepairable? I don't believe so. Has MP indicated any resentment to me for exposing to the people I did? Not that I can see - and we're still in the trying to firmly establish NC phase.

I don't think anyone on this board is going to say exposure is guaranteed to end an affair. It's not. But it will certainly put pressure on it and make it harder to continue.

The key, in my extremely limited experience, is what several have said already. It needs to be done with the idea of ending the affair, not out of a desire for revenge or to hurt the WS. You're exposing the affair because you love your spouse and want it to end so you can rebuild your marriage - if someone you expose to doesn't understand that or won't support it, that's their choice.

I personally don't see a problem with exposing the affair to friends and family and church, while simultaneously defending your spouse (not their actions) and making it very clear that you love them and will fight for your marriage.

MP (Magpie, my wife) used to post here. She got hammered just as hard as many of the other FWWs that post here. I can see now, which I couldn't then, where some of the posters where coming from. I still don't agree with how some things were said, both to me and MP, but I have a better understanding of where the posters where coming from.

Sometimes (again, this is from my own personal experience), you have to step back and give what you hear/read a few days to settle in. The truth can hurt, and it takes time to accept the truth for what it is.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have done exposure pretty much at once, to a very targeted group of people. As it was, exposure happened over a period of 2 months, and was pretty much done by the time I found MB. I would target people who could influence MP, as well as people that could give me support.

As far as being in a fog, either as a BS or a WS, I agree that it is a state, not a name. MrsWondering has offered some of her older posts to show how a FWW goes through the process and how their perspective and understanding can change. I would highly recommend reading one of her older threads to see how her position changed - I have (the one where she contacted OM for closure, IIRC).

To my fellow newbies, whichever side of the fence you are on, try and listen to what the other posters say. It doesn't mean you have to agree with them, or do what they advise - indeed, you will occassionally get conflicting advice. But really - if you want to save your marriage, and you have people who have gone through what you are going through, what do you have to lose by earnestly listening? Ultimately only you can decide what course of action you will take and you think will work - but when you're in a game with such high stakes, why not give consideration to all possible paths?


Formerly known as brokenbird

BH (Me) - 38
WW (Magpie) - 31
Married 2001 (Together 8 years)
DS - 13
DD - 5
EA/PA - 9/05-12/05
D-Day - 11/05

Second separation. Working on me.

If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given to you.
John 15:7 (NIV)
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Quote
drunk ones who come her saying they have confessed to their spouse and yet ... they are still in their affair .... even if it's just their baby toe ... allowing themselves an occasional email or a drive-by ....


Yeah, seen those.

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rock bottom ready to grow up waywards are sick of themselves and are HUMBLE


Seen those, too.

I've also seen them teeter on the edge a little - with mostly humility, cluttered with ocassional stabs of entitlement.

Quote
My space for rent is ready to place your ad .... what do you want it to say???


Your first customer??? I'm so honored!

I'd like my ad to say...

If it's a sponsor you need,
It's Pep, we've agreed
She'll keep you on your toes
With her 2X4 blows

How 'bout that???

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LOL name removed Pep- I love this analogy - LOVE it - I need a sponsor!!!!!!! lol i think KiwiJ, Faithful follower and KYellow would be my sponsors when i first came on a year ago....it was about the time Jelly posted OWN YOUR AFFAIR post - I thought I got it and loved the post - but bit by bit it was shwon to me I didn't really GET it like they Got it...lol


Dorry (aka Deeplysorry)
me FWW - EA/PA fall of 2004
FWH EA/PA late spring 2005
Got our acts together July 2005 and started recovery.

The Recovery Guide for WW's (Wayward Wives)
Dorry's Story

[color:"blue"]Excuses are easy...change is hard....[/color]
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Your first customer??? I'm so honored!

I'd like my ad to say...

If it's a sponsor you need,
It's Pep, we've agreed
She'll keep you on your toes
With her 2X4 blows

How 'bout that???

it blows <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

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Back to the drawing board...

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Quote
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As is the conflict they encounter here when they continue trying to rationalize and justify...it is from that that they learn...and many times the anger that is produced in the WS by what others post to them is good...great even...if the BS in that circumstance can listen and nod...almost agreeing with their WS, it puts them on the same team again AND can produce a great line of communication that leads to bonding...the seeds planted in the WS here can grow in that kind of environment...


Mrs. Wondering
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Beautifully said!

P.S. You tryin' to embarrass me or sumpthin'


[un]Frozen...


Thank you ma'am! And heck no, I ain't tryin' to 'barass ya...I just calls 'em likes I sees 'em! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />





Quote
MP (Magpie, my wife) used to post here. She got hammered just as hard as many of the other FWWs that post here. I can see now, which I couldn't then, where some of the posters where coming from. I still don't agree with how some things were said, both to me and MP, but I have a better understanding of where the posters where coming from. -brokenbird

brokenbird...

Were you and Magpie able to use the "offensive" how stuff was said in the way that my above quote describes? Did it allow you to be on the same team...talk about...maybe even laugh at some of the responses? Did it create a little energy between the two of you...open deeper conversation? If so, then you got TONS out of it, right? An "Ah Ha" moment perhaps? Doesn't matter how pretty the package is when the gift inside is priceless...KWIM?

By the way, I really enjoyed your post...good stuff...

How are the two of you doing right now?



Mrs. Wondering


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Excellent Post BrokenBird. Excellent Post. I remember Magpies first posts here too. I had never seen entitlement so bad from a WW. I pulled out a baseball bat then from memory.

Hope you are doing well.

BK


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Pep,
Do you think you could be my sponser?
Jerry

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Pep,
Do you think you could be my sponser?
Jerry

Only if one of us has a sex change operation !!!

... and it ain't gonna be Pep !!!

BWHAAAAAAAAA

sponsors should be same gender

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MrsWondering -

Quote
Were you and Magpie able to use the "offensive" how stuff was said in the way that my above quote describes? Did it allow you to be on the same team...talk about...maybe even laugh at some of the responses? Did it create a little energy between the two of you...open deeper conversation? If so, then you got TONS out of it, right? An "Ah Ha" moment perhaps? Doesn't matter how pretty the package is when the gift inside is priceless...KWIM?

I think it did allow us to some bonding. She was actually with OM the first day she posted, and the responses she got back where what prompted her to start her own thread. I did pull out a couple of things from her thread that gave me insight into some of our problems. One thing for certain - it didn't drive us any further apart <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We were actually on IM most of that day, even while posting, and the posting and talking about things in the open allowed us to maintain an ongoing dialogue over IM. I hope that some of the things posted in those first few days took root (in both me and her), for further development down the road.

As for how we're doing...good question. Kind of hard to answer, since I'm not sure from day to day. NC is still not firmly in place, though she went a month between her last phone call and the previous one, with one e-mail in between. Ironically, NC is being matained better by OM (who told her in Feb to never contact him again) than by her. We're not in recovery yet, but I hope to get there soon. At least she's still with me, despite wanting a separation to get to know the "new" me and fighting a strong desire to run back to OM.


Formerly known as brokenbird

BH (Me) - 38
WW (Magpie) - 31
Married 2001 (Together 8 years)
DS - 13
DD - 5
EA/PA - 9/05-12/05
D-Day - 11/05

Second separation. Working on me.

If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given to you.
John 15:7 (NIV)
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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />HA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Me neither, oh well, i'll get by.
J

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