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Joined: Mar 2006
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My story is rather lengthy but after reading the forums here for the past 2 months I couldn’t find anyone that is going through something similar as me. I recently returned from Iraq and Kuwait where I had been working as a civilian. I spent 15 months total overseas.

My wife and I have been married for 22 years. 4 years ago I had a brief affair that lasted
about 2 months. Same story as every other males – wasn’t getting attention at home so I
ventured out and found someone. I was even ready to leave my wife not for the other
woman but for the guilt that was inside of me. I didn’t like living 2 separate lives. I told
my wife on a Thursday night that I was leaving her because I felt she didn’t love me
anymore. We had a discussion and then I confessed that I had been seeing someone else
but that I was not moving in with her. I was surprised by how upset my wife was because
we hadn’t been intimate in over 2 months and actually had convinced myself that she
would welcome me leaving. Well she came unglued and cried all night and to make a
long story short the next day when we were instant messaging each other from work I
realized she still did love me. The other woman I was seeing actually had told me that if I
had any love left in me for my wife that I should not leave her. After numerous angry
messages and phone calls from our work I told my wife I would stay and we would work
on our problems together. My wife suggested we go through counseling and in my own
stupid mind I thought it wouldn’t be necessary because I was the problem and now that I
realized she loved me counseling wouldn’t be necessary. I was thinking about me and not
her. I told her the first night back that I was an idiot, I was sorry and that I would never
hurt her again. That was after we made love and both of us were crying during it.

2 years pass and I was thinking everything was fine. I had lost my job during this period
and my career field was impossible to find work in. I got an offer to go overseas and
make a ton of money. My wife was in agreement that I needed to do this as financially
we were slowly getting ruined. We still seemed to have a good thing going.

I get in Iraq and for our vacations we went on a family cruise for all 4 of us for 7 days, a
trip to the Bahamas just me and her, and a Mediterranean cruise for just me and her. I
made the most of my time away from Iraq by spending time and money with my family.
On the last cruise to the Mediterranean I had noticed my wife had changed her attitude
towards me. I could feel there was someone else but she was never that type of person
that I felt would go with another man in fact she can’t stand other men looking at her.
During this time frame she was also begging me to come home but I felt obligated to
stay. If I had known what I know now I would have come home immediately.

After 3 months of being home and questioning her about her awkwardness I finally
caught her with another man who happens to be married also with 2 young children and 8
years younger than her and he is my son’s middle school principal to top that. I called
him and told him that my wife and I were going to go through counseling and that he
needed to stay out of the picture. He assured me he had a lot to lose and we would not
hear from him again. As far as I know he has stayed out of the picture. I can’t prove
otherwise. D day was 2 months ago and my wife has times where she reaches out like she
loves me and other times she says she doesn’t. We were seeing a Christian counselor
since D day. I thought everything was going fine. We have listened to Dr. Harley’s CD’s
as well as read some other books the counselor recommended. She refuses to list her most
important needs or really get involved in any reading. She now thinks we need to part
ways and not go to counseling anymore. She says I have done all the right things but it
seems to be too late.

We are in the middle of remodeling our house and she wants us to finish that and live
under the same roof and pay off the debt we have, then go our separate ways.

She knows I love her more than anything in the world and that being in Iraq alone
changed me into a much better person. She tells the counselor this all the time but thinks I
will snap into the old person any minute now. I just don’t know whether to let her go now
or continue fighting for her.

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H,

Welcome to MB. Yes, you should continue fighting for your M. I guess you already knew that or you probably wouldn’t be hear.

I’m not experienced with M’s where both spouses have had A’s. I know that brings in a few more complications, and it sounds a little like you guys didn’t fully recover from your A. I’ll let others respond to that.

In short, it sounds like you have some things going your way. Your WW is there and not threatening to leave any time soon, so that’s a start. You need to develop a plan. Read up on this site and read SAA and HNHN.

First, you need to do some snooping and confirm whether your WW A is really over. If it is not, you need to do a Plan A and expose. If it is, start trying to meet her EN’s and avoid LB’s. If she won’t do the EN questionnaire, just take your best guess at what her most important EN’s. Change yourself first. Don’t worry about your WW for now. Avoid R talk. Just start being attractive to her, just like if you were dating for the first time.

Keep posting and others will offer advice.


Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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Thanks for the reply,
I just spoke with my counselor by phone because I was canceling our next appointment and she says the same thing. Keep doing the things I am doing and she will eventually come around. She thinks if WW is still seeing OM it will play its course. Although she recommends Dr. Harley's books she thinks following WW and trying to find out if she is still seeing OM will only push her closer to him and alienate me. As far as being attractive to her she says I am and gets very jealous when other women look at me. I am a bodybuilder and somewhat big so everyone stares at me when I walk into a room. This whole incident has sucked any and all confidence I used to have out of me.
It's amazing how Iraq had changed me and I had risked my life for my family as we had incoming rockets on our base averaging 3-4 times a day.so we were always in the bunkers.
I think our main problem now is that she has made friends with a 3 time divorcee she works with. About the time she starting hanging out with her is when her attitude towards me changed. The 3 time divorcee now lives with her second husband and still sleeps with the one she just divorced less than 2 months ago. My WW thinks her friend is the best thing that has ever happened to her. I have told her and she keeps getting angrier at me about how her attitude towards me changed when she met this new friend. She defennds her and says her friend never comments on our relationship but is there just to listen to her. I find that hard to believe.

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Quote
I think our main problem now is that she has made friends with a 3 time divorcee she works with. About the time she starting hanging out with her is when her attitude towards me changed. The 3 time divorcee now lives with her second husband and still sleeps with the one she just divorced less than 2 months ago. My WW thinks her friend is the best thing that has ever happened to her. I have told her and she keeps getting angrier at me about how her attitude towards me changed when she met this new friend. She defennds her and says her friend never comments on our relationship but is there just to listen to her. I find that hard to believe.

What you have here is a case of misery loving company. Unhappy people (the 3x divorcee) have a way of sucking the happiness right out of you if you let them. This "friend" sounds like poison.


Me 40 H 46 Married 20 years 2 DD 1 DS No affairs, but no SF since 11/05.
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Belive it or not in April of last year when I was overseas I could tell from my wife's tone of voice and the way she wrote her emails that her attitude towards me had changed. well in April of last year is when her friend started working with her and that's also when the cell phone bill shows her making numerous calls to another 29 yo man.

It's amazing you don't even have to see them face to face and realize something is not right.

I conitnued to try and convince myself that she would never cheat on me.

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I have a friend who's husband cheated last summer. She's a good friend of mine but she started acting single and wanting me to go out with her all of the time. Calling me constantly to fret over her situation, etc. I finally had to tell her that I couldn't, as a MW, meet the social needs she had. She was cool about it but it could've been ugly for my marraige and my friendship with her.


Me 40 H 46 Married 20 years 2 DD 1 DS No affairs, but no SF since 11/05.
Joined: Jul 2005
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H - I would disagree with your counselor about letting things take their course.

I'm no expert, but IMHO, you can't decide the appropriate course of action without knowing whether her A continues. Plan A and Plan B are tools to end an A. If the A is not ongoing, you don't need Plan A and B, per se.

Recovery is immpossible while the A continues. The length of an A is a very good predictor of both the time it will take to recover and how difficult it will be. i.e. a 2 year A takes 2 years to recover.

Net, it is in your best interest, and in the best interest of your M to verify whether the A is in fact over. If you don't want to start with snooping, ask her to send a no contact letter. If she refuses for any reason, that is a big red flag. If she agrees, then its your job to verify that she is abiding by the NC agreement.

As for attractive, I don't just mean the physical side big guy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> A little more conversation, more affection. While, physical appearence is a valid EN, SH generally ranks affection and conversation as the top 2 for W.

As for her friend, I agree with Cant, that single friends, etc, can make things more difficult. But you can't do much about that directly. What Cant kind of alludes to here is that as long as W is having more fun, happiness, hanging out with this friend (vs hanging out with you), they will continue. Cant made a choice that is was more attractive to spend time with S (Cant - don't know your story about whether that was a short term, i.e hanging out with S is more fun on a day to day basis, or long term kind of choice, just better for long term health of M).

Just offer attractive alternatives to your W versus hanging out with this friend. Fill up her/your schedule with fun things she likes to do. (I don't mean give her a weekly schedule - just start making plans of things she likes, favorite restaurants, shopping, weekend trips, etc.) Do those things with your W. Eventually, one time she will say I'm going out with my friend when you have planned something else. Just say, oh, okay, well I was planning on doing xyz, your welcome to come, but its your choice. At first she might choose to hang with her friend, but you go ahead and have a good time with out her. Tell her all about it. Eventually, its going to happen again, but she's going to tell her friend no thanks and come along with you.

All of this, overtime will attract her back to you.

Good luck


Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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I picked my W up from work yesterday and she was not wearing her wedding band. I told her that I thought that she was being disrespectful to me and in not wearing the ring she was telling everyone that it was over. I asked her to pack up her stuff and get out when we get home. I told her I was tired of her not trying to work on our marriage. There are other issues she has that I have not discussed yet either. I told her to go somewhere else and get whatever she is going through out of her system and when she thinks she can work on our marriage and will try then she is more than welcome to come back home because I do still love her. I also told her that no one will ever treat her better or love her more than I have. She actually agreed and said "I know".

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H - It sounds a little like you aren't looking for any advice. If that's the case, then okay. The MB principles are pretty clear, Plan A to end an A, Plan B if that doesn't work. All the while meeting EN's and avoiding LB's, etc.

Throwing your WW out does not seem to sync up with that advice.

If your ultimate goal is to save your M, I would strongly advise against separation.

But it's your call.


Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 31
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During our discussion about her getting out she said I was smothering her by making her listen to Dr. Harley's CD's and reading, etc. Also I was being too affectionate and sensitive. I am always wanting to hold hands, hug,etc. and not just as a prelude to sex. I even like to cuddle with her at night before we both doze off. In fact even after our discussion about her leaving I hugged her and we went to bed and I asked her if it was ok for us to cuddle like normal because it may be our last time. She agreed and we dozed off together.
As far as listening to her she even tells the counselor that I have become a good listener but that I didn't used to be that way.
She actaully told me she is going to stay with her divorced friend which I figured she would but my thinking on this is maybe she will be able to see another side to her that will turn it around al;so.

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I firmly believe the affair has ended. I scared the OM to death when I talked to him. I know the HR Director of the school system. I asked him what would happen if a married principal was to have an affair with one of his students parents while a husband was overseas. He stated if proven it would be automatic termination no warning or anything straight termination.
During my WW and my discussion I again asked her if any communication had occurred between her and the principal. She said that after I talked to him he called her and told her "She was not a part of his life's goals" and it was over. He ahd already assured me that we would not hear from him again and that if he needed to make contact concerning my son it was to be made with me only.

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Okay - If she thinks your smothering her, then back off a little. Treat it like you would on the first few dates. Don't talk about the R, don't have her listening to CD's, etc.

If she is truly in NC, she is going to have a withdrawal period. Read up on that.

My advice again, is to not have her leave the house. It is much harder for you to do a plan A and much easier for her to break NC.

Go back to your original plan. She stays in the house, while you remodel.


Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
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I understand, if you believe their is NC. But relapses happen. Especially when the WS thinks that you will not find out. (And they all think that).

Keep your guard up. Part of recovery is her proving to you she is maintaining no contact.

Can you make the time to have some sessions with SH. Even if its only you, he can help you with a plan.


Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 31
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Thanks for the advise and I am trying to get other people's advise. Now you are in agreement with the counselor that we should let it run it's course and she will come around.
What's amazing is how she has become the alien that everyone on this board refers to. She is just so cold hearted to me and shows no emotion.

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I asked my WW before I had picked her up for work if she was willing to go to the weekend MB retreat in April and her response was that we couldn't afford it and I told her I was sure my parents would be more than willing to help us out and that our marriage was more important than finances at this time. She refuses once again so that is out of the picture also.

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H - to be clear, if your MC is advising to let the A run its course (which some do), I'm saying I'm don't agree with that.

As far as anything else, its not a matter of running its course. You need a plan. When I say back off a little its not to let it run its course, its to modify your plan. If your WW feels you are trying to control her, force her into MC, forced affection, it is not credible. Small steps, i.e. if you've never sent her flowers before, don't send her a dozen roses every day. She'll view this as just temporary. Send her some flowers after she does something to thank her. Maybe once a week, or every other week.

Getting your plan together is something SH could help you with. You don't need your WW to participate, or even know for that matter.


Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 31
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Thanks for the advise I will give it a shot because I want this marriage to work. I think she will self distruct if I let it end also. She has other issues from her childhood that are affecting some things and she has turned to alcohol also.

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Well my WW went to stay at her friends for the weekend at least. I called her a few times and told her she was more than welcome to come back home. She said Friday night her friend and her friends' second husband went out to eat and then to a club. She told me she wore her wedding band the whole time and never got up to dance with anyone.
We talked again on Saturday night because she had told me she wanted to watch LSU on TV with me. When I asked her if she was coming she said her friend was cooking dinner and she was too tired from Friday night. She said she wanted to come home and would do so on Sunday.
Sunday morning she called me and asked if I wanted to go to Mississippi to eat crawfish with her and her friend, She said my daughter was going and I could ride with her. When I got out of church my daughter had decided not to go so i decided not to also. I called my WW to let her know I decided to stay hom,e as I had a lot of work to do on the house. She said ok and that she would be home after eating.
Late intro the evening and she never shows up so I called and left a voice mail. Then I called my daughter to see if she ahd heard from her and she said yes she was spending another night away to reflect. My WW returned my call shortly afetr and claimed she did not say that to my daughter but that she had too much to drink and was tired so she was spending one more night.
So I have had a terrible lonely weekend. I wanted my WW to reflect on our marriage and ahe has done nothing but party, shop, and party. I guess you can only escape to alcohol temporarily though.

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H - sounds like you did just fine. Keep making sure there is NC, tell her she is welcome to come home.

I'm not saying this as a joke, but why did you have a terrible lonely weekend? Do things you like to do. Work on yourself. I hope you did not express to your WW that you were having a terrible weekend. Appearing needy and desperate is not attractive.


Me 43 BH
MT 43 WW
Married 20 years, No Kids, 2 Difficult Cats
D-day July, 2005
4.5 False Recoveries
Me - recovered
The M - recovered
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 31
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It's hard to do other things when your mind is always thinking about the other person. I also knew if I went out alone how vulnerable I was and did not want to put myself in that situation. I spent time alone watching college bb and working on the house. My 12 y/o son had went on a field trip for the weekend with the church youth and my daughter is 18 and pretty much does whatever she wants.
The kids now have an idea that something is defintely wrong with our relationship. I was wondering if it was time for all of us to meet together and discuss the marital problems. I thought it may clear the air with them and also keep me and her from using them for our own benefit.
Is that wise to do?

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