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Marriage Builders Forums Our Archives Archived Read-Only Posts Inactive: General Questions Help!! I don't know what to do

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Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624827 03/30/06 09:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,025 USA M MrWondering Member
MrWondering Member M Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,025 USA	TOOSOONS - 15 STEPS TO INFIDELITY This was a handout for a church group (the statistics are almost identical for church and non-church members when it comes to adultery and divorce) but it does a good job of defining how affairs develop for far too many people. The progression from friend to sexual intimacy and betrayal. It is provided in the hope that it will help newcomers to the forum gain some understanding of what has happened and how it could or might have happened. Anatomy of Adultery 15 Steps of Unfaithfulness How does adultery "happen?" People don't just decide one day to hop in bed and be unfaithful to their spouse. Adultery is the culminating act of a dozen or more tiny steps of unfaithfulness. Each step in itself does not seem that serious or much beyond the previous step. Satan draws a person into adultery one tiny step at a time. And he does this over time so that our conscience is gradually seared. This makes it easier to take "just one more step" thinking such a tiny step won't hurt us. The following "15 steps" which analyze how adultery "happens" are based on scores of interviews, counseling, and correspondence with church folk who fell into unfaithfulness. Our question: "How did this happen... what were the tiny steps which led to this mess?" While the order varied from case to case, the following is the general progression which surfaced in most incidents. This is not some sort of theoretical list. These are the actual steps taken by scores of church people who wound up committing adultery and regretting it later. Some of these people sobbed deeply as they shared, hoping that their own pain and failure might save other marriages. This information comes to you at great expense. This chapter doesn't have any preaching or analysis... that is left to you. Here we offer you cold word-for-word quotes. You and your Sunday School class can draw out the lessons. How did these lives get ruined? How does it start? 1. Sharing Common Interests. "We just had so much in common, it was uncanny." "She and I both enjoyed music, and we were attracted to each other." "He was so spiritually-minded... I'd been looking for someone to share my spiritual struggles with." "We both loved horses, and started riding together." "We both shared a burden for the church and especially children's work." "She was the first woman I'd ever met who liked the outdoors, even hunting and fishing -- I was fascinated!" 2. Mentally comparing with my mate. "My husband wasn't interested much in spiritual things, but this man knew so much about the Bible." "She was slim, attractive, and dressed sharp -- quite a difference from my wife who didn't take care of herself much at that time." "She was so understanding and would listen to me and my hurts -- my wife was always so busy and rushed that we didn't have the time to talk. "My husband just would never communicate -- he'd come home from work and just sit there watching TV. I finally gave up on him. Then this man came along who was worlds apart from my husband -- he was gentile, loved to talk, and would just share little things about his life with me." 3. Meeting emotional needs. "He understood how I was feeling and offered me the empathy I was hungering for." "She was there when I needed her." "My ego was so starved for affirmation that I would have taken it from anyone -- I guess that's what started the whole thing." "No one had ever really believed in me until he came along. He encouraged me, inspired me, and believed so deeply in what I could become." "My wife was busy with the kids and not at all involved with my work. This girl admired me and treated me like I was really somebody. It felt so good." 4. Looking forward to being together. "I used to dread going to work, but after we started our friendship, I would wake up thinking of how I would see him later that day... it seemed to make getting up easier." "I would think of being with her the whole time I was driving to work." "I found myself thinking of him as I got dressed each morning, wondering how he would like a certain outfit or perfume." "I looked forward to choir practice every week because I knew he would be there." "Every time I drove by her house I would think of her and how we'd see each other that Sunday." 5. Tinges of dishonesty with my mate. "When my wife would ask if she was with the group I'd pretend I couldn't remember... right there I started building a wall between us." "I would act like I was going to practice with our ensemble, but actually I was practicing a duet with him." "Once my wife asked about her, but I denied everything, after all, we hadn't done anything wrong yet. Now I see that this was one of those exit points where I could have come clean and got off the road I was speeding down." "Whenever we got together as couples I would act like I didn't care about him, and afterward I would even criticize him to my husband. I guess I was trying to hide my real feelings from my husband." 6. Flirting and teasing. "I could tell from the way she looked at me. She would gaze directly into my eyes, then furtively glance down my body then back into my eyes again -- I knew then that she was interested in more than my friendship. But, I was so flattered by her interest that I couldn't escape." "Then we started teasing each other, often with double-meaning kind of things. Sometimes we'd tease each other even when we were together as two couples. It seemed innocent enough at first, but more and more we knew it really did mean something to us." "We would laugh and talk about how it seemed like we were "made for each other" so much. Then we'd tease each other about what kind of husband or wife the other one would have been if we'd married each other." "He had those killer eyes. When he'd look at me in that "special way" I would just melt. It was hopeless fighting my urges -- he had me." 7. Talking about personal matters. "We would talk about things -- not big things, just little things which he cared about, or I was worried about." "We'd meet together for coffee before church and just talk together." "I was having problems with my son and she seemed to understand the whole situation so much better than anyone else I talked with. I'd tell her about the most recent blow-up and she would understand so well. We just became really deep friends -- almost soul-mates. That's what's so weird about all this -- we never intended for it to go this far." "I had lost my Dad just before we got to know each other and he had lost his mother a few years earlier. He seemed to understand exactly what I was going through and we would talk for hours about how each of us felt." "I was so lonely since my husband died and hungry for someone to share life with. Then he began to call just because he cared. I loved hearing his caring voice at the other end of the line, even though I knew he was married." "We spent so much time together at work that I swear she knew more about me than my wife ever did -- or even cared to know." 8. Minor yet arousing touch, squeeze, or hug. "He never touched me for months. Then one night after working late, we were walking toward the door when he said 'You're so special, thanks for all you do..." then he turned and hugged me tenderly, just for a second. I loved how I felt for that moment so much that I began to replay it over and over again in my mind like a videotape. Now I know that I should have stopped it all right then. I never intended to ruin my family like this." "She was always hanging around our house and was my wife's best friend. Often she would stay late to watch TV, even after my wife went to bed. She would sit beside me on the couch and I was drawn to her like the song says... like a moth to the flame." "He would often pat me on the shoulder -- you know, in appreciation for a good job I'd done. But I knew it meant more than that." "The first time she touched me was when we were doing registration together. We were sitting beside each other. I'd say something cute or funny and she would giggle, then under the table she'd squeeze the top of my leg with her hand. That was really exciting to me." "Every time she shook hands with me at the door she seemed to linger, sort of holding my hand more than shaking it. No one else would notice, but I knew there was more to her touch than appeared to the eyes. She knew too." 9. Special notes or gifts. "He would write these little encouraging notes and leave them in my desk, pocketbook, or taped to my computer. They didn't say anything which could be traced. If anyone found them they wouldn't suspect anything. But we both knew what was going on, we just didn't want to stop yet." "I would sometimes call him and leave a short message on his answering machine. He would leave little notes in my Bible." "He would buy me a little gift -- not that expensive, but it always showed he had taken extra thought to get exactly what I liked. Of course everyone else thought he was just being a good boss." "She started leaving unsigned notes to me in my desk sharing her feelings for me. It scared me at first, because I thought someone would find one. But after a while I found myself looking forward to the next one, even though I knew the risk." 10. Inventing excuses to call or meet. "I started figuring out ways I could drop off something at her house when her husband was gone. He and I knew each other and I would always return borrowed tools in the afternoon when I knew she'd be there alone." "I would wait until the end of the workday then I'd call him just before closing time about something I'd made up as a 'business question' and we'd talk." "The more entangled we got, the more I planned times where he and I could practice together. We started meeting more often." "She started arranging her schedule so that her husband dropped her off at committee meetings. I would hang around and offer to take her home, acting with as much nonchalance as I could muster up." 11. Arranging secret meetings. "By now we both were so far gone that we started meeting secretly at the mall parking lot. It know now how foolish this was, but I was driven by something other than good sense at that time." "We started arranging to work evenings on the same nights, then we would leave early and meet each other in the dark parking lot." "I started making sure he knew my travel schedule so we could attend the same conferences. We still weren't involved physically at that time, but there was such excitement and romance to it all... even the secrecy seemed to make it more exciting." "She would sometimes call me just before lunch and we'd sneak through a drive-up together, and then spend the rest of my lunch hour talking quietly to each other." 12. Deceit and cover ups. "Once we were meeting secretly I had to invent all kinds of stories about where I'd been to satisfy my wife. By now I had built a towering wall of dishonesty between us." "Pretty soon my whole life was full of lies. I'd lie about where I was going, where I'd been, and who I'd been with. The more suspicious my husband got, the better liar I became. But he knew something was going on. It's hard to lie without people suspecting it." "I joined several groups so that I would have an excuse to be away in the evenings." "She would ask when I'd gotten off work. I'd simply lie about it, and she never knew what hit her. How can I ever regain her trust now?" "We agreed that if anyone saw us driving around we would both tell the same story: that my car wouldn't start, he stopped to help, an we were going together to get a new fuse to replace the broken one he'd discovered." "By now my whole life was a lie, so I began telling them regularly to cover up our little meetings." 13. Kissing and embracing. "The whole thing seemed so exciting by now. I was such a fool. We were meeting secretly and both of us were fearful of being caught. But that only seemed to increase our common ground. When we'd meet, we would embrace as if we'd not been together for years -- like in the movies when someone comes home from the war." "Once we started meeting secretly the end came fast. We kissed and hugged like two teenagers going parking for their first time." "It just felt so good to be hugged and loved by somebody who really cared about me." 14. Petting and high indiscretion. "At this point my glands took over. I forgot reason altogether and was willing to risk everything for more." "It was like I was a teenager again -- going too far, then repenting and promising to do better; then just as quick I was hungrily seeking more sin." "When my husband and I were dating we struggled with 'how far to go.' Well, here I was again struggling over the same issue. Friendship with this guy didn't seem so wrong. But now were we're going further than I ever intended. But, I felt curiously justified going exactly as far as I had with my husband when had been dating. In a way, I think some of my resentment against my husband's constant pressure on me started coming out. I'm not saying that it wasn't wrong. Just that I kind of felt justified." "At about this time I began fooling myself into thinking I was heroic for not going "all the way." That's what I wanted to do. But by doing "everything but" I fooled myself into thinking I was successfully resisting temptation. What I didn't realize was that, not only was what I was doing wrong, but that eventually I would take the next step. It's just not possible to freeze a relationship -- you have to go ahead with it, or break it off totally." 15. Sexual intercourse. "Soon I quit resisting and was swept into outright adultery." "One thing led to another and finally we ended up in bed with each other." "Though we never intended it to go that far, we eventually went all the way and had sex." "One night we couldn't seem to stop ourselves (at least we didn't want to) so I completed my journey of unfaithfulness to my husband -- I had sex with this man." _________________________ [color:"red"] The above was provided by me to give you an idea where your husband is and where you already seem to know he is going. It doesn't sound like he went out honestly seeking this. The old damsel in distress approach seems to work quite effectively for these wolves in sheeps clothing. You need to bust the inappropriateness of this Emotional Affair wide open by snopping on him. All you will get is denials until you do. If he talks to her on the cell phone a lot than you no doubt can get the proof by purchasing (with cash only) a voice activated digital voice recorder from Radio Shack or WallMart and hiding the same up and under the passenger or drivers seat of his car. Some get a mini microphone extension to pull up through the seat to get clearer reception. You will likely get all you need to prove it's an affair and then you can Plan A him (exposure to family and the workplace) and fight this affair and more likely than not get your husband back. If the car idea won't work and they communicate by email then a keylogger program on the computer or just perform a search using the Start-Search feature and many times the old emails will sit there in the temporary internet files even if he's trashed it. This IS the better board to be on. Good luck, Mr. Wondering[/color] Last edited by MrWondering; 03/30/06 09:33 PM. FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered "agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do MrWondering #1624828 04/22/06 06:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois M mellysue Member
mellysue Member M Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois	I am desperate need of advice. My husband has agreed to change his relationship with the OW but he's having a difficult time. I know he genuinely wants to but it has become so natural for him to be her go to guy that he just automatically falls back into the same pattern. The problem is he says he can understand how things about their relationship could be seen the way I see it. But he still believes that there was nothing wrong with having the relationship. No matter what I say I know I can't make him see. Now the question is-is him being willing to change the relationship enough? Shouldn't he want to? Furthermore he is so snowed by the damsel in distress routine I can't see him ever walking away. No matter how many times I've predicted what the OW will say or do my husband still can't see it. She's supposed to be in love with someone else but he's the one she uses to attract my husbands attention. Her "boyfriend" has told her several times he doesn't want to be with her but every time she breaks out the don't you like me routine he cracks and sleeps with her. And then she goes crying to my husband about how no one likes her and he falls right back in. How do I trust him if he can't be indifferent to her? Please Help Mellysue "A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person" ------------------------------------------------------ BS (me) 28 WS 26 Married in Nov. 2000 DD-11 yrs old DD-5 yrs old DS-4 yrs old DS-17 mos old

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624829 04/22/06 08:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 202 L Ladyjane14 Member
Ladyjane14 Member L Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 202	Quote Furthermore he is so snowed by the damsel in distress routine I can't see him ever walking away. No matter how many times I've predicted what the OW will say or do my husband still can't see it. You know, it absolutely horrified my husband when I was able to predict ALL the OW's next moves before she made them. I'm kind of surprised that your H can't see the way she's playing him. The 'Damsel in Distress' routine is old as DIRT! Followed up quickly by the 'Jealousy Routine'. Next thing, she'll start the 'Be Your Own Man Gambit' where she starts teasing him and bringing his manhood into question because he listens to his wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Did you print off the article that Mr. Wondering posted above? It might help for your husband to read that. Also print off a copy of the'Why Women Leave Men' article... HERE . This guy isn't letting you into "every room of his house". Not that you're threatening to "leave" him...but I think he'd gain some insight into the emotional distance you're feeling if he can make a connection with the "every room" metaphor.

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do Ladyjane14 #1624830 04/22/06 09:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 686 I intexas Member
intexas Member I Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 686	Can he switch jobs? He can't be the go-to guy as easily if he doesn't work with her. Just a thought. BW-me, 29 XH, 29 3 sons-now 6,4,2 Divorce final--Sept. 27, 2006.

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624831 04/22/06 09:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas M MelodyLane Member
MelodyLane Member M Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas	Quote And then she goes crying to my husband about how no one likes her and he falls right back in. How do I trust him if he can't be indifferent to her? Please Help Mellysue Melly, you should never trust him until he ends ALL CONTACT. He should not "change" his affair, but END it. That is the only hope. And you should never trust him until that happens. "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do MelodyLane #1624832 04/22/06 09:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois M mellysue Member
mellysue Member M Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois	How does he end contact with OW if he works with her. He has posted his resume but is not actively seeking a new job. "A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person" ------------------------------------------------------ BS (me) 28 WS 26 Married in Nov. 2000 DD-11 yrs old DD-5 yrs old DS-4 yrs old DS-17 mos old

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624833 04/22/06 09:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas M MelodyLane Member
MelodyLane Member M Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas	melly, he cannot end contact unless he leaves the job. "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do MelodyLane #1624834 04/24/06 08:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois M mellysue Member
mellysue Member M Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois	Being that we are not in a position to have my H change jobs at the drop of a hat what do I do until then? I'm so torn up all the time. When she doesn't work we get along decently well but I hate having to look forward to those days because that's just as depressing. I am becoming obsessed with this EA and I'm so exhausted. Emotionally and otherwise. We're at a point where everything feels so forced but I think a lot of it is me. My H refuses to make the OW take any responsibility for the situation but she is just as much responsible as him. She's made comments about feeling like the OW and putting her phone # under a different name. She is manipulative and my H can't see it. Which is so scary. Mellysue

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624835 04/24/06 08:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas M MelodyLane Member
MelodyLane Member M Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas	You will stay torn up until he ends contact. This is exactly WHY Harley is ADAMANT that all contact must end, even if that means a move to another state. If I were you, I would help it along by exposing the affair to his boss, the Human Resource Director, his parents, the OW's H, her parents, any close friends. I would make it sooo uncomfortable for the affairees that one of them HAD to leave their job. The alternative is to make you, an innocent victim, very uncomfortable. Let THEM be uncomfortable, Melly, they signed up for this. You didn't. "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do MelodyLane #1624836 04/24/06 09:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas M MelodyLane Member
MelodyLane Member M Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas	p.s. Melly, I see where MrW advised you to do some more snooping. Have you taken this advice? "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do MelodyLane #1624837 04/24/06 11:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois M mellysue Member
mellysue Member M Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois	I'm not sure what to do to further what I already know. I can bug his car but most of their communication is done via text messaging or pinning between their balckberrys. And of course while they are at work. I actually went to his work while they were working together per his request but that was a disaster. I saw more than I wanted to see. They were a lot more friendly than I think even my H believed. I'm not sure how to do more snooping. I can't really snoop on them while they're in work or with text messaging. I routinely check his messages but if he deletes them before getting home I have no way to recover them. If you have any other ideas please let me know. Mellysue

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624838 04/24/06 11:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas M MelodyLane Member
MelodyLane Member M Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas	They probably talk on the way home from work. Do you think they communicate via a home computer? What about from your home phone when you are gone? "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do MelodyLane #1624839 04/24/06 11:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois M mellysue Member
mellysue Member M Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois	They don't communicate from our house at all-I've already checked but I'm sure they communicate via my H email at work. They seem to only communicate during work hours. Shes very careful about that as she carries a schedule around with her. For instance she is on vacation this week and with her boyfriend and without a work schedule so she has not yet contacted my husband.

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624840 04/24/06 12:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas M MelodyLane Member
MelodyLane Member M Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 Texas	I think your best bet then is to put a recording device in his car and see if you can pick up any conversations. Also, do they eat lunch together? "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do MelodyLane #1624841 04/27/06 04:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois M mellysue Member
mellysue Member M Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois	What kind of recorder should I purchase? I've seen a lot that I can listen into from a mile or so away from my radio. But the problem with those id that I have to find a way to get it into his work which is truly where I need it the most. However his car is good too. Any suggestions as to which kind to buy? Or any ideas as to how to get one inside his work? That is where they spend the most time communicating. And have the most oppurtunity. Mellysue

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624842 04/27/06 04:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 630 1 193296 Member
193296 Member 1 Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 630	Work sounds pretty hard to me - I actually have not seen recorders where you can listen from a mile away ... if you do it at work, it would seem you would need one of those. Where did you see it? I'd be interested to know. I got 2 digital voice recorders (as opposed to tape). I have one I bought at http://www.spy-tronix.com/. It wasn't cheap (about $175) but came with everything I needed - including an AC adapter which is very important since they use batteries very fast and all the stuff I needed to connect it to the phone. I now know I could have gotten one at RadioShack much cheaper. I also bought one there - they did not have one with an AC adapter. I bought this one because the first one I bought was out of commission for awhile. I think price varies by recording time. More time, more expensive. They both work great and if you play with it for a few minutes, very easy to operate.

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do 193296 #1624843 04/27/06 05:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois M mellysue Member
mellysue Member M Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 195 illinois	It's really more of a listening device. The problem is it would be perfect for my H work but I'd have to find a way to get into his work. It's small enough but it does need to be attached to a 9 volt battery. There in lies the problem. The device would probably be easy enough but the battery is weighty and bulky. It seems to be a great way to get inside his work without having to actually witness the two of them again-I just can't figure out how to set it up so that no one would find it. "A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person" ------------------------------------------------------ BS (me) 28 WS 26 Married in Nov. 2000 DD-11 yrs old DD-5 yrs old DS-4 yrs old DS-17 mos old

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do mellysue #1624844 04/27/06 05:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 10,179 USA N Neak Member
Neak Member N Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 10,179 USA	Melly, I saw you mention that he has a Blackberry. Is it through Nextel? A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner. ~ English proverb Neak's Story

Re: Help!! I don't know what to do Neak #1624845 04/27/06 05:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 10,179 USA N Neak Member
Neak Member N Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 10,179 USA	The reason I ask is that if it is, his text messages - sent and received - can be accessed online if he has the right plan. I received oodles of intel this way. I knew the password to his email, so even though I didn't know the login to Nextel at first, I just had them send the user id and password to his email, and deleted them. (Later he gave me the info anyway - it was for a business - but he had no clue I could read every sordid word they exchanged.) A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner. ~ English proverb Neak's Story

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