I feel so lost and so confused right now. That pit in my stomach that I haven't felt for so long is here again. I can't sleep. I feel sick. I feel tired. And I am scared to death.

My WH came to get the kids at 5:45 and stayed until 11:00 last night. It might not make sense to say I didn't want him to, I just couldn't get him to leave. He just kept wanting to talk.

He tells me we can win this fight. We can do this. He will call her that night and end it (refused to do it in front of me). He said he couldn't live with himself if he was mean to her. He came in her car.

I asked him some questions about them. The sexual questions he answered yes to all of them. I wasn't surprised. Just sick. So sick. Feels dirty when he just looks at me.

I said if you're serious, give me your cell phone and let me read what is on there. He didn't want to , but did. OUCH! Here's the thing--the night before he sent her this message--
The night before. He started to get angry with me when I mentioned that gee, that's the same thing you're telling me.

He wants me to tell him for sure we'll make it. He says he is nothing without me. She was a mistake to fill a void, he says. I am what he always wanted.

I asked what he got her for Christmas. $700 earrings. To some that is not big--but he never got me anything hardly--my presents used to be him telling me to get my hair done. No joke. And in December, he had charged the divorce (nov) on our joint charge card and therfore went over balance, so I had to take my CHristmas money from family and pay that bill. And all the time he knows this, and gets her $700 earrings. He got me nothing--not even from the boys like we agreed to do.

Aside from wanting my boys to have him full time, I don't want this man now. I don't believe a word he says. I feel so entirely used. And I feel guilty for feeling like this, because he says if I say no, then he's nothing and he'll never be good for the boys. That I will crush him.

I am so scared. I am working the weekend, and I just want to go to bed and rest and can't. I felt safe before last night. I want to stay in the safe zone. No one would get me giving it another try now. No one. Not now. And my heart doesn't want to go through this again.

I immediatley fought when this started because I was on survival mode. I have survived now, and I am tired of fighting. But then I will hurt him if I say no now. And I have never wanted to hurt anyone. Ever.

This thought has to be entirely set aside. Whatever decision you make in regards to taking him back has to be made taking into account you and the children's best interest. He is a grown man who is entirely capable of taking care of his feelings, you cannot sacrifice your best interest for that.

So, put that aside, intexas, and let him tend to his own feelings. He is a big boy.

Your H is in no way ready to leave his affair. It sounds like things are getting rocky over there, but you can see with your own eyes that he is still fully entrenched. That means there is nothing to discuss AT ALL until he demonstrates his affair is over. That is IF you want him back.

Do you want him back, intexas?

No, ML, I am not sure I do want him back at this point. I want him back for the boys, but for me--and I hope this does not sound selfish or conceited or anything like that--but no, because I want better now. I want to feel like I really am loved and not just the better choice between two women. I didn't feel that way in the beginning of this. But now--well, now I do.

Honestly--I don't want anymore hurt.

I looked into his eyes when he was talking to me. And I didn't feel like this is a man who loves me. I felt like this is a man who thinks he loves me. He used tactic over tactic to stay as late as he did--and yes, I fell for them and put up with them. It's a mixture of my lack of assertiveness and my feelings that I am hurting him.

He doesn't want to come home right away. Just wants me to say there is still a chance. I am scared to even give him that much.

Have you considered Plan B?

He is supposed to be breaking it off with her today and wants to start working on us again. That's where plan B is supposed to get you, right?

That's where I am stuck, because I don't know anymore. I have so much fear at the possibility now. I have moved on wonderfully. I have a plan for the future. I love my boys. I no longer feel like I miss him much. I miss what I thought we had--but turns out that was all a lie.

Is it awful--is it giving up and not allowing God to work--if I say I am done? And how do I do this without feeling like it is? Should I not care that I am hurting him--he said I would be rejecting him--and that all he has ever wanted is to feel loved. But I did love him. And I showed him. He said it just wasn't enough.

intexas, your first responsibility is to protect yourself and your children, not to save a potentially unsalvagable marriage. You have a very different situation here in that your H is a diagnosed narcissist who can be profoundly cruel, manipulative and thoughtless.

Even God gives you an out for adultery so you would be fully within your rights to move on. You simply cannot allow inappropriate feelings of GUILT and FEAR guide your thought process. Guilt is only appropriate when you do something WRONG, there is nothing wrong if you make a decision to move on.

What is the best thing for you and your children, intexas? That must be the question.

What would you do if you WERE NOT AFRAID?

Oh, this must truly hurt.

Whatever he says, remember this, his actions will speak louder than his words. He's supposed to be breaking it off? It would be best if he did it by certified mail - you see the letter and that it was sent by certified mail. He wants to work on your relationship - means he has to show up at counselor - one you like and he likes.

Don't just listen to his talk.....watch his actions.

Don't worry about causing him pain. Don't feel guilty about the outcome - whatever it might be.

Do what you have to do for you and the boys.

What if you ask him to counsel with Steve Harley and let him guide this? SH could assess if this marriage can work and guide you to an exit if that is what you decide. That might take some of the pressure off you to make a decision.

Mel,

you are a great source of advice. I don't know all of Intexas' sitch but it sounds as though she needs to do some thinking and her WH has a lot of work to do and a lot of proving to do.

Perhaps, she can suggest counseling for him to attend and for him to show her what he is willing to do for this woman that "he can't live without".

You are soooo right in that actions speak louder than words. Let his actions be the guide for making any decisions.

((((intexas))))

Selfish or conceited? Nope. I call that mature and wise. Of course you want better. Anybody posting on this site who doesn't want better has bigger problems than infidelity to sort through.

Just keep in mind that is what you are after. Better. A better H. A better marriage. A better you. That's what this is aaaallll about... taking a messed up situation and making it better.

Anyway, as I was reading, the idea of Plan B popped into my head too. I mention that because Melody said it and I always feel the need to comment when she and I agree.

I think it would probably be the shortest Plan B ever.

The other thing, no need for a phone call to break things up. A No Contact letter (like on from this site) is absolutely the best way to go. Best for you, best for your H and also best for OP.

I say best for OP because it's honest and clear. And because of that, it provides a sense of closure for the affair partner. It's a compassionate way to deal with this issue.

That's my 2 cents. ('course that's in Canadian funds... so after the exchange, I'm not sure what it's worth...)

John

If you were going to write a Plan B letter today, what would you put in it? What does your WH need to do in order to follow 'the roadmap' home? What will your boundaries be?

ML is right. You are at no obligation to take this man back after his infidelity. If you don't want him anymore....that's a decision that YOU get to make.

Frankly...there's ALOT of work to do in the reconciliation process. And I honestly believe that when a WS comes back without meeting terms, they're likely to evade that hard work.

The path of least resistance is the path a WS is most likely to take. If he hadn't been taking that route before, wouldn't he have stayed and put the work in with you instead of running away from his marriage?

There's nothing to say that your husband might not eventually recover and make a fine and wonderful partner. But has he EARNED another chance with you yet? Has he shown you how sincerely motivated he is to make the changes that are necessary?

Motivation on the part of a FWS is soooo important during reconciliation. The BS needs alot of reassurance after all the trauma of the affair and it's a challenging time for the FWS.

I hate to be negative, but what it looks like to me is that your WH is offering you is an opportunity to add the words 'false recovery' to your bio. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thank you everyone for your responses. I will comment on them in a minute--just wanted to get this out before I lose my train of thought.

He just called me again (even though I asked him not to today).

I expressed my need for a no contact letter and not an in-person goodbye. He said he is a decent human being and won't hurt another like that. He said that he calls that blackmailing. Wants to know if that is how this is gonna be.

Am I way off here for needing that. I beleive he will resent me for wanting it this way. It is important to me, but he sees it as me wanting to hurt her.

He cares for her, but doesn't love her he says. But wants to fight for us.


Nope. He hasn't. I have told him to work on himself and then let me see who he is again. I asked him to start with IC for three months and to walk in accountability with someone from church on a weekly basis. He says he doesn't want to do any of that until I can promise him there will still be an us. How can I? Right now I don't want there to be, but I would love to have a reconciled M one day if it could be pure again--but it is his job to prove that, and he thinks I have to guarantee that now.

He said this shouldn't be one-sided. But I have already done the changing. I know what it takes on my part. I have no CLUE how I'd work on the SF part when the time comes.

Okay--Plan B letter. I guess I need one tailored to me. Can anyone help me with this in reference to the sitch I am in?

intexas, I would explain to him that you need him to send the nc letter as a demonstration of his sincere committment to your marriage.[it should be written together and mailed by you] A demonstration that he places YOUR FEELINGS and best interest above that of the OW. That is the kind of demonstration you will need in order to consider reconcilation.

He would also need to agree to go to counseling and to abide by Dr. Harley's Four Rules of Protection after an affair.

That being said, I have a feeling that he will not be interested in coming back on your terms, but only on his terms. Which means that he is still not really committed to rebuilding your marriage, but only thinking of himself.

Which means, that it will be up to YOU, and you alone, intexas, to PROTECT yourself from him and ensure that reconcilation only occurs in an environment where you and your children are protected from harm.

Here is my favorite Plan B letter: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

Four Rules of Protection: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

This is what I'd say:


This fella makes me angry. Don't the WS understand that they aren't God's gift to the BS?!? I guess maybe on some level they do, which is what creates that huge schizm that make the WS so unpredictably tweaked.

Have a Plan B letter ready. My impression is that this WS has very little respect for you.

I think that you need to earn some of that respect by setting some boundries and then enforcing them. When he sees that you mean business, it might help to clear the fog a little quicker.

John...

btw, I've not read all your posts, I don't know your whole sitch... the above was based on my initial impressions from this thread. So I might very well be waaaaaay off...

That's it. I don't think so either. And I am extremely hesitant to believe he will. He is promising all kinds of things right now. I simply said "actions are what I need. Not words."

THe thing about plan B--that love is not there--or at least there is so little of it left. I have for 8 months gone through a pregnancy, had a baby, and now have an almost 3 month old without him and I have thrived--only thing he has given to me is guilt, tears, harsh words, and a diet black cherry vanilla coke. That love bank thing--it is completely empty. I am simply telling the truth here.

BUT if he could do all the things I think I'd need to recover--then maybe it could come back.


Then there are the what's in all of this--
What's my family gonna do. say. think. my friends the same. Those are VERY important to me at this point.
What's gonna happen with the job sitch.

And what about recovery? I heard that hurts worse than this. How in the heck to deal with the new truths I am just now hearing. Like--they've been living together. I never knew that. That's a new one.

I don't like this one bit. I like the safe place better.

He tells me he has been living in sin and wants to find his way out of it.

He agreed to 3 months of IC and one on one accountability with someone at church and then 3 months of marraige counseling (and a thorough std test) BEFORE he moves in again. That is six months from now.

Intexas,

U don't owe him any guarantee. He owes that 2 you and the family.

You have written his boundaries....what are yours for you?

L.

I mostly lurk around here, but I seem to recall that someone - was it Pep? - committed to six months at a time in the beginning. Maybe that would work for you?

Would my boundaries be accepting nothing but him sticking by his boundaries?
Maybe I don't understand.

I just mentioned to him that I might call her exH to clarify tihngs currently.

He freaked out.

Says he can't stop me, but that as a decent human being, why would I want to hurt another human being.

I said I think of myself as a decent human being. I could care a lick about her or how this would affect her, but it would help me believe him. He says I am better than that.

Sounds to me like he is hiding something. Here's the thing--no contact is supposed to start taking place today (she has to move her stuff out) and if I did call her ExH--how would my WH ever know if I don't tell him? She isn't supposed to be in contact with him. He would only know IF she told him, therefore showing contact.

Call him. And then call HER. You don't have to win a debate to know it is the right thing to do.