I knew you'd ask this as you are the reason I confided in her in the first place.

Well, truly she hates the man. She wants better for me--and I don't blame her. She would like to see him end up ina deep sea connected to cememnt--and has had no problem telling me that. She and my dad and even my extended family are important in my recovery. I am not one of the posters who say all that matters is me and WH. I am not that because he has to earn that kind of devotion from me again. Right now, I don't feel I owe him that devotion. Committment to vows--yes. Giving up my family--NO!

She said she is highly doubtful. SHe says she wanted what is best for me. SHe says she will not welcome him with open arms--and frankly--I am glad. He doesn't deserve open arms from her. He hurt me. Therefore he hurt her. i understand this because WH is hurting my boys by this. And I hurt all the more because of what I know their innocent little hearts must feel.

I would like to think one day she'd welcome him back. He has agreed to apologize to my parents and to not exclude them from his life because (he says) he knows that is important to me. Again--words. Anyone can say words. The test is can he do the actions.

He wants me to fill a void for him, and I have told him no--not now. You figure out how to get God to do that first. He tried calling a few minutes ago--I said, WH, no. I am tired. I told you I wanted to have space tonight. I am not interested in a full-blown relationship right now. You start showing me what the counseling and accountability are doing in three months, then I will go to counseling with you to see what is left to salvage in this marriage. I told him I could offer no more than that right now. I told him I was protecting my heart and my boy's hearts.

So I don't think I am allowing him to reunite with his wife. Not yet. Maybe not ever. But I will make a step to see what changes he has made. One of my fears would be that "not ending up alone" is his motivation. Which is why for at least the mext 6 months he will not live with me or sleep with me. I am in protection mode. Remember--I have already found the safe place. I have grown accustomed to it. He'll need to show me a much better place to make me want to leave the safe place.

p.s. Thanks for asking the tough questions.

Good for you, hon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to the new quote in my sig line...

(only with your permission, of course...?)

John

I may not be the answer you are looking for because I am a
FWS, but I think I can safely say this----He must end contact and the method he uses must be with you or in a manner you approve. Otherwise, you will not know it is done. It appears that he has not made step 1 towards working on your M. That is not to say that everything will work out peachy keen for you, but if he will not at least provide sufficient evidence that all contact has ended, then don't belive him. I again state that I am a FWS. I know the tricks.

I feel for you even though I was not in your position. Others may find my even posting here wrong, but when I read what you typed, I had to resond.

I don't know you, but I feel comfortable to say-Don't allow him to take advantage of you again. You are better than that. You owe yourself that.

I was wrong in what I did. I say this without knowing if my M will make it or not. I was still wrong.

Be strong and true to yourself. You hold ALL the cards this time.

intexas,

U see things much clearer now right? Your mind and heart, do they feel in sync enough t/b able to move forward? I hope so. Your post is full of strength. The WS can't harm you with his guilt trips.

MThomas, wanted to let you know I appreciated your last post to intexas. It is good to hear that you recognize the error of your ways. What you can do is your best from this point forward. As intexas pointed out, the Xws (not the WS) must show the BS a much better place than where the BS and family are now.

Wishing u both well on your new journeys.

take care,

L.

Good girl! This is exactly the right attitude, intexas. If you were right here, I would give you a great big hug, even though it would surely ruin my rep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are more than welcome to. I like the safe place, too.
And ML--I would gladly take that hug.

Yup. I really like the safe place. So much in fact that I am feeling so uneasy about leaving it. I woke up wondering why the heck I would even allow my heart to get hurt again by him. That is why I need to write my plan down and stick to it. I really don't like how this feels. I really don't. It's this queasy stomach feeling. Is this normal?

I think it is because of some of the questions he has answered for me. Small details (huge ones really) that I never knew. I guess I have to take each one, live it, and then bury it hopefully one day.

I know one thing--there is no moving back in for WH right now or soon. He thinks 6 months is a long time. I don't care. I hope that is not a wrong attitude. But I don't. I am not sure in 6 months if I'll feel safe enough then. If he gets tired of waiting, then he gets tired of waiting. My safe place--It'll still be there. My expectations are not up. If he strays again--that's it. Zero tolerance for a strike 2. False recovery will not be acceptable--it just won't. Not now.

He is worried about investing in this and then I don't want it to work. Someone help me here, please.

You can't take responsibility for WH's emotional risks. Heck, no one else is going stand in for you when you eventually risk your heart again.

He's asking you for a guarantee so that he can avoid all that. But even in otherwise untroubled relationships, there is "risk". We throw ourselves in, do our best, and hope it all works out. But there's no guarantee for ANYONE.

Why does he think he's so special that he shouldn't have to take his chances in love like all the rest of us do?

Well, WH just left.

I am not sad. Let me preface with that. I am still safe.

He told me OW texted him last night that they could still have the life they talked about together. He said he is not gonna fight if I can't give him a guarantee. He said he thinks I will never get over the fact that he was in a relationship with her. (UMMM..been what less than 24 hours since I knew the major details). Said he owes it to me to not come back until he has explored the relationship with her--because only then will he be able to love me with his whole heart again. He said he is sorry. To always pray for him. He needs it. Pray he doesn't do something stupid--I said, I don't think this is smart. He said he is sorry to the baby. Told me maybe he wasn't meant to be a full-time daddy.

I could have saved him right there--or made it work for this second. But I loved him enough to let him make these choices.

he had come to town to get the bpys and take them to the fair like he PROMISED them. Instead, he was too emotional and hurt to do so he said. I watched Ben cry and beg his dad to do so.

Not again, people. Not again.

I think maybe he's just offered you an excellent opportunity to go to Plan B. He says he "needs to explore this relationship with OW". That leaves you free to say, "Fine...go do that, just don't mess with my head while you're doing it."

This guy is sooooo needy. I think OW will have her hands full trying to meet his ENs. Meanwhile, YOU have the blessed peace of not dealing with him.

What a CRAPPY thing to do to the boys, btw. Hmmmph! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

intexas, I am very sorry for your boy. That is the saddest part of this whole drama. Maybe the answer is to stop telling the boys that dad is going to take them anywhere and then when he does show up, they have no expectations?

It sounds to me like his affair is winding down and he is trying to get something else lined up if that happens. I think you will agree that he is in no way committed to your marriage or even to ending the affair. He is only committed to his own selfish interests at the expense of everyone else. He just doesn't want to be alone.

Glad you are safe. I want to also add that I think your mother is one smart woman. But so is her daughter. You are so much stronger and shrewder than you were when you first arrived. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He is a full fledged WS, losing his H and now dad rights. Oh yea, he is on a downhill ride.....good, maybe bottom won't be far.

IMHO, he will go back to the OW and they will despise each other. They will kill their own A and he may come back for another chance without you lifting a finger. However, it is a matter of when and if you and your family even want him back at that point. When a WS comes back as such, it is hard on the BS but at the same time a bit empowering because you could see this coming.

Stay on the high road. Don't lower your standards. He playing with the devil right now and she's got him by the balls. That isn't enough of a grip as he is dangling over the precipice of life.

L.

Well, I suppose you could tell him that you know exactly how that feels...

I agree with the hitters. This dude is so far in the fog, it's not even funny. I think a good solid dose of reality will be trick. A lot will depend on how tightly he clings to his own denial.

You and your young'uns are in my prayers.

Actually, I am sad. I feel warm and heavy in my stomach. Not really a let-down--I know what he is doing to himself here. This road does not lead to life--only darkness. When he finds that darkest of darkness, I pray he will see a glimmer of light that is God. I pray he will return to that light again.

I am sad for my boys. That their dad isn't strong enough to stand up for their mother or for them. One day, I pray he will at least be strong enough to stand up for them.

I am not into plan B or any of that. I am done with plans. I am in plan mom and plan intexas now only. I have to get myself in gear, get a teaching job, and give these boys a good life despite their dad's choices. One day maybe he will be good for them.

The infidels have a life planned out, he says, and he owes it to himself to give it a shot. He owes it to me to only come back when he can give me his full heart. He doesn't get it. He doesn't get that I'm not one of those punching bags that you can hit, watch fall down and automatically see it pop up again. I call that respect. Dobson says that without it there is not a marriage.

I understand that as fully as I hope I will ever have to again.

I don't feel duped. I mostly expected this. I just feel heavy inside.

And I still believe in redemption. This is a lesson to me also about that--I will continue to believe that the soul of my WH is not a lost cause to God. I will not hate WH. I refuse to give the enemy that victory. I just hope my WH makes the right choice one day to choose light again.

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks, ML. I pray you know the impact you have made in my journey here--from one texan to another.

Let him know you don't pray in behalf of a WS. You pray in behalf of your H. Very important difference to note.

L.

You are so right. very important. Very big difference.

This was spoken by a Christian mind; I can see that clearly in your thinking and in your great strength. You will be alright. And so will your little boys. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

God bless you. God bless your little ones. You're in my prayers.

LEt the idiot ws explore his relationship. Explore? What kind of p.c. bull poo is that? Explore a relationship?

Why can't the man have the darn cajones to SAY WHAT IT IS...I am staying so I can have an illicit and terribly immoral affair b/c it feels GOOD TO ME...and so I can SHRUG MY RESPONSIBILITIES and behave as a child.

To be a father and have made the conscious choice to become a father..this man has morphed into a complete and utter loser.

What kind of woman wants a man like that? I honestly ask you.

They are totally doomed.

Call ow's H right now! Tell her the cocknbull story he handed you!

Plan B...dark and a hard one for him. Don't let him back in for a while. Needs to crash.

And as for his fatherly rights? HE'S LOST THEM. He's a horrid father in this mode...affair mode is NOT CONDUCIVE TO PARENTING.

Orchid is awesome. She is so right. Pray for your H...on H's behalf. Not for the WS. God DOES KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.