I've posted before on the recovery board, but I don't' consider this recovery anymore.

It's basically the end of my life. Sorry to be so dramatic.

After 20 years of marriage and a short (2 month) PA, WH has decided to call it quits. With no warning whatsoever - and with me still head-over-heels in love with this man that I just KNEW I was going to spend the rest of my life with. He made it clear over the weekend: He does NOT love me, does NOT ever anticipate loving me ever again, does NOT want counseling, and the sooner I deal with it the better.

I have already talked to SH, but WH is not interested in making a call. Not even to help me through this.

My sons are 13 and 17. My 17-yo talked to his dad, and asked if we could hold off on splitting up until the end of the school year. We tentatively agreed - but WH made it clear that I am not to get my hopes up; he will definitely be leaving (or I will be leaving) at the end of June.

We are still sleeping in the same bed, still going on errands together (he likes doing things with me, he just doesn't like living with me)... however, every once in a while he'll remind me that it's over. Sometimes I think I should just take off and leave him with the kids (which is what he wants - the house and kids to himself, minus me) and start my life over. Other times, I think that this next 3 months is my chance to continue meeting his ENs and build back his love bank. He just says that for the last month, he's seen the incredible wonderful changes I've made, and it does absolutely NOTHING for him - he's finished.

Assuming he is NOT still in his A, which I'm fairly sure he's not - when a guy makes up his mind that he simply doesn't love his wife and doesn't want to try, is it over? Period?

He's in withdrawal at the very least or the A is simmering and they are planning to setup the BS' for a fall.

R U done with your plan A? Think about striking out on plan B before HE is ready to leave.

Can you call Steve for a plan?

L.

Who had the PA, you or him? Assuming it is him, there must have been a time you were not meeting his needs. So it seems to me that now is the perfect time to try to meet them. If his love bank was in the red, deposits are slowly building up, but he may not feel "the love" yet. What do you have to lose? Do things that you could sustain for the long term.

If he reminds you that is over, just say "of course it is". If he asks why are you doing things for him, just say that this is the way you should have been doing things. Also, live your life like you want to in the future, while still meeting his needs. What I mean is, do the extra effort for him, but for yourself as well. Is there a course you want to take? A club you want to join? A new hairstyle to try?

Now you have it in your head that you might leave. Why is that?
Why not him? Does he think it is a possibility that he might have to leave? If he seems to think it is his God-given right to stay, then you might start asking if him what area he is looking in apartments?

I'm looking at plan A again, since he's still here - but one of my downfalls is that I have a HARD time holding it together and not getting emotional. Being cordial/pleasant rather than crying is really difficult. The antidepressants are starting to kick in, so maybe that will change.

I guess I'm so convinced that he feels its over, that I'm just prolonging my own torture. However, maybe if I'm planning for Plan B, it will get me in the frame of mind to be able to handle this.

I'm thinking about trying one more time to have WH call SH. If that doesn't work, I'll call him again.

Why does he want YOU to leave..
Have you made it clear you AREN'T going anywhere...

what are his stated reasons for the affair and for wanting a divorce...

why are you dragging him around in a wagon behind you on your errands...

ARK

He had the PA. And, I was not meeting his ENs - but I have been for the last month, and he notices big changes. Still, he thinks this short amount of time is enough to realize that he is not in love, no matter what I try to do.


Yes, I suppose it is the perfect time - guess I'm just worried that I'm setting myself for another big fall. I just wish I knew if other people have had success with one spouse who is "totally, completely out of love" .


Very good reminders - I have to do this. I feel like I need to live a double life - the life at home in Plan A, and preparation for the new life. Arrrgh.


This is a very difficult subject. Basically, I let my career take over my life for the last few years, and he took over the house and kids. After a while, he began to get accustomed to it, and preferred being "Mr. Dad" without me around. He is very good at it.

Now, I have done a 180 in my job and other areas that he needed more needs met. It is not fake, and I am truly a better person for it. However, the sting of being the "bad mom and wife" is still there. I truly wonder whether I can handle the household and the 3 kids - two teenage boys and a 4-yo adopted daughter (WH's niece) and still handle myself emotionally. He would leave if it was necessary - but I'm wavering on which is better for the kids.

os, what is better for the kids is to have TWO parents. It is best to not move at all. If he wants to seperate, he should be the one to move. And the main reason is this: he is hoping to not have to make any sacrifices at all in pursuit of his new life. If he has to move, then he will be forced to face the consequences of his decisions.

if you make it difficult for him to leave the marriage, he will have second thoughts about tearing up your family. He is counting on you making it EASY and AMIACABLE for him. BIG MISTAKE.

If you don't make it easy for him, it will help drag things out long enough for him to fall back in love again - IDEALLY.

Many, many WS' believe they have fallen out of love and end up falling back in love, so don't let that bother you.

Secondly, it sounds to me like he is still in the affair. What is the status with his affair? Is there any contact at all?

Can you describe this OW to me? How does she differ from you?

I thought long and hard about this on my way home today - even before I read your message, but now you have confirmed it. You are so right. I really let myself get beat down completely this weekend, and have fallen into a deep depression. This is not going to help.

I'm formulating my plan now. I have to force myself to stay together emotionally - because I was doing pretty well last week, and I completely lost it and started some big time LB's Friday night (forcing him to answer questions about OW, trying to make him feel guilty, etc.). That's when he broke out the "I will never ever love you ever again" speech, and when we started talking about splitting immediately.

I talked to my boys when I got home today, and informed them I will NOT be moving out. If their father was to die, I wouldn't go moving out of the house because I couldn't handle it, right? Well, this is not much different. We agreed that their dad needs to see that we can all be happy together, and that the boys like having their mom around. I must say, we've become a lot closer through all of this.

Unless something big and dramatic happens (and you all know how in the midst of these crisis, things change by the minute) maybe 3 more months will be enough time to make him realize he might miss this place (and me) - as long as HE is the one that has to leave, not me.


He will NOT reveal any details whatsover. All I have is her cell number, and I've called several different times, hoping her husband would pick up - but I'm sure she guards it carefully. I also know she works at the same place as my husband, and that supposedly the only thing they have in common is that they are both unhappy in their marriages. Supposedly, according to him, they both realize they've made a mistake, and they've ended it.

He did contact her on Saturday, to have a "neutral" party to talk to about what we were going through. "Yeah - neutral" is all I could say back to him - but, at least he told me. He is adamantly claiming that his feelings for me have nothing to do with OW - he would be perfectly happy with NO woman in his life right now.

Exposure to OW's husband has not really been possible - but there are a few friends at work I'm thinking about calling to talk to about it. Maybe if a few people know, word will spread... things can't get much worse right now, right?

os, if you have not exposed to her H, then you have an excellent opportunity to ruin his affair. Your marriage can be saved if you can bust up this affair.

He is probably still in the affair from the sounds of it.

Exposure is simply the most effective weapon you have at your disposal. It is ruinous to affairs because they can only survive under the veil of secrecy. Exposure causes the affairees to see how sleazy they look through the eyes of others, which destroys the underpinning fantasy. It is very possible that you could end this affair very quickly upon exposure if you do it right.

Another great exposure target is the Human Resource dept where they work along with his parents, your parents, and your children.

You simply have to find her H and expose to him. Even if it takes hiring a PI to find it, you must do this.

How is he contacting the OW? Is he talking to her on your landline? If so, you could put a recorder on that line.

And don't accept that his feelings "have nothing to do with the OW." They have EVERYTHING to do with the OW. And until you disrupt this affair, your marriage does not have a chance.

Exposure should be done very strategically and carefully in order to get the maximum impact. The targets should be people who have influence in his life and the OW's life.

You have some GREAT OPPORTUNITES here, os, if you just play your cards right.


You realise this is all pure FOGBABBLE, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Do you want to know the reason he told you this? He knows it will be much harder for him socially and legally if people know he has left his family for another woman. So, he desperately needs for you to believe that the affair has NOTHING to do with it. DON'T BELIEVE IT FOR A MINUTE!

The OW is no more his "neutral friend" than I am a damnyankee. If she is so "neutral" then why he is keeping her a SECRET? If they are truly just "friends" then there is no reason you can't ALL be "friends" together, even with her husband.

os, this kind of manipulation and trickery is very common in an affair. We see it here EVERY DAY. Normally honest, upstanding people become master manipulators and liars when it comes to facilitating an affair. What your H has told you is a CLASSIC LIE that is very typical. So don't let him fool you, this is all about the affair and they are not just "friends."

os, first I'm sorry to hear you have found your self in this situation. Take solice in the fact that you are in the best place possible to receieve advice that will improve your odds at recovering your marriage.

Many of the things you WH is saying I have heard EXACTLY from my WW. This is very typical so please listen to the people here like Melodylane since she has been through it and witnessed it here many, many times.

Again, I've heard all the things your WH is telling you from my WW.

Don't move out of the house and make him do all the work if he wants to seperate.

I'm still wondering about this. Let's just say the A was over. Does that automatically mean the fog could clear and he would love me again... or, once a man says "I'm done with you - it will never change" CAN IT?

Never say never when it comes to feelings. However, your H's desire to end his marriage is due to an affair, I assure you. And he probabaly told you this on IMPULSE because you were asking uncomfortable questions and he wanted you to shut up. Worked, didn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, don't know if I did the right thing, but things really blew up last night...

I pushed NC at my WH. That was it - didn't go any further than that at first - and it made him really mad. He said the A is over, but he doesn't want NC. I told him that as long as he is still living here with me, he MUST agree to NC, or else he is showing that he chooses OW over me, and he needs to go. His response was, "I'm not choosing either one of you - I'm choosing my own happiness." I did not budge. Then I perhaps crossed the line - I told him that if he cannot choose NC, then he will need to explain to our boys (13 and 17) about the A so they know that OW is contributing to the breakup of the family. He kind of dared me... so I said "fine" and called the boys in for a talk. He back pedaled fast. He then went to the motorhome, cleaned out my stuff and got it ready to live in. I did not beg or plead or cry - I simply stayed out of his way and let him go.

While this was happening, I talked to one of his friends from work who happened to call, and exposed the A.

So, fast forward to 10pm. He came into the bedroom and said that he went ahead and told the boys about the A, because he didn't want me holding the threat of telling them over his head. Then he asked whether he should sleep in the bedroom or out in the motorhome. Well, I had already thought he was moving out... so I told him honestly the choice was up to him. And, he chose to stay.

So, I have kind of an emergency question here. I think I did the right thing - however, when his friend confronts him at work tomorrow, he is going to be p****** that I told somebody else his business. Should I tell him FIRST, so that he's not surprised when this friend confronts him... or should I just see what happens? At the time I told his friend, I thought he was moving out permanently. I didn't expect him to stay - but now that he did, I"m wondering if I really screwed this up.

Don't be wishy washy on this. U cleaned out the motorhome and he refuses to help you heal, then he needs to go where he made his bed. Btw, what did he tell your children? You need to find out. His idea of the A may not be what you think they should know. Later you need to have a talk with your boys and make sure they tell you. Approach them in a loving way and let them know it is worse NOT to tell you what they know. That you are a family preparing to fight against all who want to break up your family.

As for the exposure. Don't apologize. Whether he stays or moved out, exposure is necessary. His co-worker may have already known something was amiss.

If the WS gets mad, let him know you expected him to get mad since that seems to be easier for him than standing up for the truth and his family. Yes, show him that his anger is just a cover for hiding more lies. Then ask him....so what else do you need to get mad about and hide? Then walk away.

It is vital you difuse the A and let him bring it down the rest of the way.

L.

os, I am going to tell you this is the WORST POSSIBLE WAY to expose an affair. First off, a "friend" has very little influence at all and should be LAST on the list.

If you are going to do this, it needs to be done RIGHT, in a STRATEGIC way in order to have any impact on the affair. That means sitting down at the phone with a list of key people and calling them with a set of talking points in front of you. In a calm, rational state of mind. It needs to be done in one fell swoop to get the maximum impact and to prevent the affairees from pre-empting you [she is just an jealous nut, etc]

The list should look like:

your boys [he lied to them]
OW's husband
WS's employer, ie: Human Resources and his boss since this is a workplace affair
WS's parents
your parents
close friends
pastor/priest

Tell them your marriage is in trouble due to an affair with OW [give her full name] and you are trying to save your marriage. Tell them you love your H very much and you and the children will be devastated if he leaves. Ask for their support and influence in achieving this goal.

DO THIS TODAY if you can, os, because he is already angry about the exposure last night to the boys [which he lied about, I assure you] and to this friend. Doing it now will make it more impactful. And if he is going to be mad anyway, you may as well get your money's worth.

Don't tell him you told the friend. Don't tell him anything. Just get on the phone and finish exposing if you want to save your marriage. You have this all backwards, os.

onlysorrow,

You need to call anyone else you know at his work immediately and expose to them as well. The reason is that once he learns you told one person, he will start trying to damage control, to spread the word that you are crazy, making things up.

The normal reaction of the cheating spouse when the betrayed spouse exposes is anger, temper, pissed off, "now you've done it! You've blown any chance to repair us. I was going to come back but now I see what a **** you are. This is all your fault." And then, they have shot their wad and that's the end of the fury. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Exposure is done with no fore-warning for that very reason.

And yes DO find out exactly what he told the boys. He probably dressed it up so it's not recognizable as an affair. It's your job to tell them that their dad has been and is still in an extra marital affair and tha tyou are fighting to keep their family together.

Quick, make the rest of the calls. Otherwise the results will be diminished. Also, if there is a HR dept, call them.

When you expose to the other employees who you know, ask if they have any idea who the OW is, her last name, anything about her H because you need to let him know what has been going on.

Right now in spite of your pain, you are in the best position you have been so far to recover your marriage. Courage. You will win.

Not much time here to type... but in a nutshell, I think things went better than I expected.

The "friend" that I exposed the A to is widely known for having a big mouth. When I got home today, WH sarcastically thanked me for "all the phone calls" he got today, as this friend not only called HIM, but called several other people at his place of employment to ask whether they knew what was going on. He is p*ssed to say the least - but then smiles sarcastically, looks right through me and says, "But that's OK. No big deal." (as in, "You know I'm leaving in 3 months anyway, so who cares.") Then he said, "You should have just posted it on the damn Internet so that everyone would know."

I did talk to my boys. He told them he had an affair, and seemed to them to be remorseful about it. My 17-yo could not give me any details, because as soon as my WH told him, "I had an affair," my DS told him to stop right there and not speak to him about it further. DS is that way. I explained to my younger one tonight, since I had the time, that I am fighting to keep this family together, and that we (sons and I) need to keep the communication open so that we can do everything we can to get WH back on track. He said, "Whatever we have to do, it's worth it."

Gotta go now.