I would agree whole heartedly with 3 accounts! What is yours is yours, what is mine is mine, what is ours is ours, NOT what is yours is yours, what is mine is yours...
But, do Keep a nest egg! especially if you have children! Hidden or in your 401K that you can borrow quickly from should you need it! at least $5000! YOU never know a person until you divorce him! and when you don't have anything except kids to fight over- they will fight and throw you under the bus, in the name of love! Money talks and honesty falls on deaf ears in the courts!
I will buy the Burning Bed for my daughters! True story and they need to be aware that there are people out there like that.

Mel, allow me to add my 2 cents if I may...

I think the way spouses prefer to handle finances in M (and their individual spending habits and outlook on finances) are complex and are influenced by a LOT of things such as background; personal experiences on money and financial security; personality; different outlooks between spouses on finances and opposite spending habits between spouses etc. I think especially a person’s background e.g. how people were raised and their personal experiences about money (for example, did they grow up poorly or was money/things given to them in abundance) have a strong influence as well as the role model in a child/young adult’s life (usually the mother/father). Another factor I consider to be a big influence on this finance issue is a person’s personality – people with strong personalities and tendencies towards independent and controlling behavior, will obviously show these tendencies in their spending habits and the way they’re handling their finances as well.

Now, spouses with similar backgrounds, experiences and viewpoints (as far as money & finances is concerned), will obviously find it much easier to have joint accounts; be totally transparent, open & honest about their expenses; be equally in control of finances etc. Me and my H are such a couple – luckily finances is the ONE area where we experience minimal problems/conflict in our M because we don’t have extreme differences in this area and view all the money as "our" money. (Thank God because I don’t know how we would have survived through my H’s current unemployment if it wasn’t for this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) Neither one of us are extreme savers or spenders so it’s is not a problem for us to be totally transparent on expenses, to easily POJA on financial issues and come to an enthusiastic agreement. (It also helps that my H - unlike some other men <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> - have a complete understanding why some moisturizers cost $4 while other cost $40 or even $140! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Mel, I can see why this finance issue is a problem in your M – obviously you and your hubby have total opposite viewpoints and habits on money and on top if it you have the type of personality where you have the need to feel independent and in control. This is huge and I can understand you struggle in this area…BUT this is also where the challenge comes in Mel...for both you and your H… You and your H have an opportunity to growth through this together and form a closer bond. I think if both of you sit down and talk about this calmly, you might be surprised at the end results! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Some ideas I want to share:

• Since this is not you and your H's first M (where you’ve started from scratch together), I can understand the need for both of you to have separate accounts, but I do think it will be a good thing if you and your H can start having at least one savings account; retirement fund account (or something similar) together where you can have a shared goal.

• It seems you are a extreme spender while your H is a extreme saver, so it’s seems you two need to find a middle ground and allow each other room for individual financial needs. For example, probably your H need to loosen up a bit and become less critical on your expenses (this will also allow you to become honest and open with him about all your expenses and not feeling afraid to tell him what you’ve spend) and on your turn you probably need to see where you can start spending less & save more. Probably you also need to try and let go somewhat of your tendencies to be in control and independent. Some independency in a M can be good & healthy, but not too much if it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

• Since you and your H are so different in habits & views as far as finances is concerned, I think the most important thing is to accept each other’s individual differences in this area and have understanding for each other’s financial needs. If there is acceptance for each other (even while the two of you might not necessarily agree with each other’s views and habits on finances) there will be no need for him to hide money from you and for you to hide expenses from him. I think it probably just take a good, long, calm, honest and open discussion. I realise it's easier said than done, but I do think you and your H will be able to work something out and come to an agreement (although it might not yet be so much of an enthusiastic agreement at this point, but at least it will be a start! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Good luck and I hope something I've said was helpfull!

From Penalty Kill


That's the way it works in our M too, but I respect that other people may have a different outlook, particularly in 2nd or 3rd marriages. My H and I have never argued about money, but we have similar fiscal outlooks. My favorite courses in college were in finance; I'd rather cut off my arm than carry a balance on a credit card, which is lunacy. I pay all the house bills online; my H is free to look at any of the credit card statements at any time. I let him know when I have to make large purchases, which generally involve the children (hockey is big $$), or something mutual. He's careful with money, and if he says we have it to spend then I know that we do.

He likes the fact that I'm not a shopper, as are many of the women in his family. On the other hand, he reminds me that by many people's standards, we live large. My daughter and I roll our eyes when my SIL and 14 year old niece go on about their personal shopper at Bloomingdales. I want her to develop a healthy disdain for wretched excess.

Good advice, Mr. Wondering. I've seen my H's family develop a rift a mile wide after his grandfather's death. All because of inheritance, and greed of course. Stupid.

We are looking at college for our daughter next year; rather than buy a book like the burning bed (isn't that about a battered wife? Better to teach your daughter that it is absolutely never acceptable to be hit by a man) I have told her that she must take finance, accounting and economics. Every woman should understand exactly how the financial world works. I've seen too many people who just don't get the concept of interest. They'd rather have something right now and basically pay for it twice.

Note to Melody Lane: The face cream you buy at the department stores is no better than what you find in the grocery store, just more expensive. I'm not going to pay for some cosmetic company's advertising on tv and in glossy magazines. Eucerin is the best there is. If you *really* want good face cream that is actually going to improve your skin, you have to go prescription: Renova, baby! I highly recommend it, worth the $$

Penalty Kill, I use Annique facial products for more than 12 year now. I will never use any other skin product for my face ever again in my life! Do you know this product? The quality & effectivity of the Annique products is fantastic and worth the money (not too expensive comparing to other quality skin products). The Annique skincare range was originally created by Dr Annique Theron (a South African) for the South African environment (especially for the sensitive skin types) but I know this product is exported to other countries as well. The most important extract in this product which make it so effective for sensitive skins is "Rooibos".

From PK

Suzet, I have heard of rooibos - tea, that is! Annique Theron - is she any relation to Charlize Theron, who is also South African? Seems too unusual a name to be coincidental.

Everyone has a preference; I just can't handle creams with any perfume in them, my skin freaks out, which is why I like Eucerin. My uncle is an MD in CA, where they are all about looks, or so it seems. He's the one who told me about Eucerin.

But I do love my Renova. I told my H that it's cheaper than a face-lift. (My mother has had a good bit of plastic surgery, and I'd rather not go there. I picked her up after her face lift; she had bandages all over her face and she was wearing a trench coat. I couldn't help it; I started cracking up - she looked like the Invisible Man. She was not amused)

Sorry for the t/j.

Penalty Kill, as far as I know, they are not related to each other in any way – except that they are both South Africans and share the same surname! (Theron is not an unusual surname in South Africa).

Sorry for the short threadjack Mel! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the excellent advice, Suzet, I like your suggestion that we need to take into account our different backgrounds and meet halfway. I could probably learn frm him and save and invest more, which is something I am interested in doing.

As far as my face creams, I was just using moisturizer generically to make the point. The cream that I actually pay $135 for, Cellex-C, does not have a cheaper counterpart, as cheaper versions of vitamin C is just garbage. In fact, I would place most grocery store brands of face products in that category. In addition to this, I use Renova, which I pay $12.50 a tube for in Mexico.

p.s. I do understand there are lots of things that can be bought more cheaply in a grocery store/online and I do that when possible. The things I pay more for don't have cheaper counterparts which are just as effective. For example, there is simply no product as effective as Cellex-C. Vitamin C creams stimulate collagen production and eliminates lines [they really do] but since the molecule of Vitamin C is too large to penetrate the skin, it has to be reformulated. For this reason, most creams are not stabilized long enough to even make it to the shelf. Cellex-C is, which is why I buy it.

On the other hand, the glycolic acid cream I use is the one of the best on the market and I pay $15 for it in the drug store. So, I am not ignorant of cheaper skin care brands. But I have researched this subject fairly intensely and have substituted where it makes sense.

And often, I can find my specific brands on ebay for much less money. That being said, my main goal is not to penny pinch here. I will save money where it is convenient, but price shopping is not that big of a deal to me.

As a professional...sorry, but this statement is false.

just curious, why do you post under your husband's screen name? Why not just post under yours?

Agree 100%.

I agree too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Nothing better for a woman than to look after her skin and have a good skincare routine with quality products (yes, maybe a bit more expensive but a good "investment" on the long run). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> JMHO

My H and I didn't even get M'ed until our 30s, so both had been living independently for a while. He tends to spend more than me, but neither of us would be considered an extreme spender or saver. And neither of us really expects financial support from the other. Essentially, we live frugally and occasionally treat ourselves to stuff.

We continue to maintain separate checking, savings, and retirement accounts (generally 401k accounts through work or IRAs that used to be 401k at prior jobs).

We tried a joint account for household expenses, but it proved to be too much of a PITA when yours truly once forgot to deposit money to cover a bunch of bills she had just paid! Yeah, I know, direct deposit, but our employers limit how many accounts you can direct deposit to and the desposits had to be done manually. So H pays me a set amount each month for his share of the combined HH expenses and I write the checks.

We each have our own credit cards, too, and we both strive to not carry a balance, though on occasion, if we have a big ticket purchase, we might have a balance for a few months.

We each have our own retirement accounts. Someone mentioned borrowing off your 401k -- BAD IDEA!!! You can lose so much of your nest egg doing that, it should be your very very last resort.

Neither one of us makes a major purchase - I guess I'd call major more than a couple hundred bucks - without running it by the other. What we generally do is practice common sense, which seems to work for us. We're not wealthy by any means, but doing better than a lot of people.

Thanks for the backup, girls!!! Don't wanna get me started on the subjects of Exposure or The Policy of Free Radicals ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

**snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OOPS...Mel..so sorry..I did misunderstand...

I can't hang out with YOU GUYS well on this subject because of my own particular situation...

Never lived alone as an adult except for PLAN B...

Out of the college dorm..straight into marriage...

H always made more money than me..although I wrote all the checks...

See what I mean?

Don't relate well to the SEPARATE ACCOUNTS discussion...

Love Ya...

Hmm, that's interesting. How do they reformulate Vitamin C to make the molecule smaller and still have it be Vitamin C? And how does the Vitamin C in the foods we eat (the regular sized stuff) get into the cells in our body? Do those cells have more permeable membranes than skin cells do? I guess that would make sense, since skin is out there to protect us. I'm afraid when it comes to biochemistry, all I know is what I learned back in High School.

elspeth, I wouldn't be able to explain it intelligently given my lack of training in chemistry, but if you want to read about it, here is the link: http://www.cellex-c.com/end_user/atomic/atom_toc.html

I love this skin care discussion! I've never done much of anything to take care of my skin until recently. Now at 54, my skin has dried out and since menopause, the sagging, the wrinkles, the chicken skin.... Where/how do you figure out what's best for your skin without spending a fortune experimenting?

As for the joint checking issue... I was the more penny pinching of the two of us, but WH and I never had significant issues with money. We had joint checking and joint credit cards, at least when he was clean and sober. I did keep a separate checking account with only about $1000 in it for several years after he got sober and a separate credit card I never used. Yet, we're divorcing, so obviously this issue wasn't particularly significant for us.

WH & I lived together for a short time before marrying and never merged our checking accounts. It wouldn't have prevented the A, but I would have found out sooner perhaps!!

I think separate accounts with one joint is a good way to go. Hey Mel --- WIsh I could be "broke" like your H!! with $20K!!!

Take care!

Kim