Just Learning - Are you around today?

S&C,

I am here for a moment but will be back in a bit. What can I do for you.

God Bless,

JL

S&C,

I am guessing that I am up past your sleep time. So with your permission let me guess what you might want to ask. At least it will give us some things to consider.

It seems to me there are steps to this.

1. Telling him the rest of the story.

This requires a decision as to the best time (morning, evening, weekend, etc).
Next should children be around or perhaps off doing something or with a Babysitter.
Safety: are you concerned about him becoming violent? If so you need to do this with a third person with you, minister, counselor, someone.
What about him? Have you to been working with a minister or counselor? If so, perhaps speak to them about getting idea as to how to broach this in the best way, and perhaps you might do it in their presence.

What you want is to put this very difficult thing into a frame that is best for him to handle, knowing that it will not be easy no matter what.

2. Next be ready for questions. Why did you hold out? Why are you telling him now. How could YOU??? This sort of thing.

Why you held out? Fear is most likely the correct answer. You feared him and you feared lossing him.

Why are you telling him now? Guilt, knowing that he has the right to make decisions with the full information, and suspecting that he has suspected all along and you did not want him to live with doubt. Do these reasons resonate with your thinking? Decide and be ready.

My personal thinking and it is my own opinion is that while you should be humble when you tell him these things, you should NOT be sorrowful. He needs to see you as a woman with an idea of what she did, what she wants, and will to make this marriage right. Oddly, he will need your strength and clear head.

3. Expect the knee jerk reactions of anger, and then deep deep sadness.

My bet is he will ask about the paternity of his youngest child. Here is where preparation could help you. If you are willing find a DNA testing center, be ready to have your youngest tested IF he wants to. You can assure him that there is no chance this child is not his, but it is likely he will not trust you. Don't be offended but realize that with the miracle of modern science his mind can be put at ease. Something that could not have happened even 20 years ago. Be prepared for this and offer it to him perhaps even before he asks.

This obviously will lead to the issue of sex and the kind you had with OM. Are the things you did things you would NOT do with H before? Are they things you might consider doing with your H now? Are there aspects of what you did that you in fact enjoyed and would like to share with H? You need to figure this out ahead of time.

Why? Well, if you have done things for OM you have not or would not do with H, it will really really hurt. However, the next question from him will be about why HIM? Honest answers: you craved OM, you wanted to please him for providing other EN", whatever it is. But, also consider that you may have been willing because you did not worry what OM would think of you and your image like you did with your H. Often this is a more valid reason than many want to admit.

However, if you found somethings you would like to do with your H now, let him know. Not as appeasement, but because you know more now. As you can tell this is a very very delicate issue. I am offering possible scenarios only so that you can look inside you and find the truth as you know it and be able to offer it to your H.

I am sure he will be lost and hurt. One thing to remind him off IF it is true is that you have had NC with OM, even while you were withholding this information. The withholding was wrong but it was not to protect OM. If this statement is true it can be powerful. Not immediately but after awhile.

I am offering you all of this so that you will think about your PLAN before disclosing. There are no perfect plans but some thought other than just guilt and the need to purge yourself of this knowledge is really useful.

Finally, I am hoping that others will come along and offer their ideas to you, so that you have a full range of ideas and approaches to think about.

You cannot act your way through this, but the more honest you are, the better your understand yourself (see those questions I asked you the other day), more aware of where you want to be in the future, the better you will able to present this and help your H.

It won't be pretty, but the fact that you think he might suspect (see earlier comment) means you don't think he is a fool. The fact that you respect him (and that is a good word to place in your conversation IF it is true) will help him.

So think on this. I hope I may have anticipated what you were going to ask me. If I missed please feel free to say so, and ask away. I am sure all of us will help as much as we can.

God Bless,

JL

JL - I am at work and have been swamped today. Thank you for your direction, I do appreciate it very much. I am hoping to write back to you later today.

May God Bless YOU!!!

JL - I don't have much time, but read your post again and had a few questions/comments....

1. My second child, there is no doubt is my H's. Firstly because OM and I never had intercourse, secondly she looks EXACTLY like my H. But I understand that he may still want further testing. Obviously I would do whatever it would take.

2. Sex with OM....this is a major grey area for me. For years S with my H was just OK. I was never able to really "let go" with him. I have always contributed this to our past communication problems....felt like I was having S with a roomate, not my H. However, with the OM, all of my guards came down and I acked like some sort of vixen. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear, but THAT is what I need to work on before I disclose - figure out how I came to be that person. I was so sexual - not that I don't want to be but I want to be that way with my H and no one else. What happened to me to turn me into such a sexual being?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

As you may be able to tell, my thoughts are everywhere today. However, this question goes out to all W spouses...is this "acting out" sexually normal in an A? Does this happen to everyone who has had an A?

Any thoughts would be welcomed.

S&C,

Well, sex is a complicated subject, but allow me to look at some simple things with you and see if they might apply.

I mentioned in my previous post the issue of how you want to be seen by your H vs. how you don't care as much how you are viewed by your OM. Please remember you are talking to a guy here OK. It seems to me women have images of roles when it comes to marriage and sex. One image is that of Mother. NOw YOU KNOW how you bacame a mother right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, the idea that a mother might LIKE sex, or want to try new things is sometimes inconsistent with how we view our own mothers and how women view themselves as mothers.

You were NOT planning nor occupying the "mother" role with OM. Further, there is an issue of respect. I realize you are still in the "fog" abit, but consider that not only where you not in the mother role, it truely did not matter what he thought of you (see respect here) as much as that he wanted you. In the case of your H, you want him to respect you, be proud of you, see you in a whole different light than your OM saw you.

I am going to sound brutal here, but that is not the intent. With OM you were a married woman committing adultery, and in this light standing on the principles of "will he respect me in the morning", just does not have the same impact as it would with your H. Do you see my point?

Here is something you really really need to get. MEN love enthusiastic women in bed. Men who are married to enthusiastic women in bed are very very happy men. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It is something that they enjoy, and yes PROUD of. Heck we even think sometimes it has to do with our skills. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So if I were you I could think back on what you view as a good W, a good mother, and a good person. I think these images may be what is limiting your responses to your H. They were not there to limit you in your affair. Does this make sense?

I need to do some things but I will be back later. I hope this has helped and I hope someone else chimes in.

S&C, if you and your H can get through this what you might find yourselves saying to one another is something that has been said here often.

"It seems as if the A was a good thing, our marriage is sooo much better than it was before the A."

People say that and then are bothered by the fact that something as bad as this seemed to help. Well, it wasn't the A that helped it was how each of you handled it that helped the marriage.

Oh! and one more thing men love feedback in the bedroom. As you become more comfortable in your skin, and you are able to tell him what you like and want, things will get much better.

God Bless,

JL

"So if I were you I could think back on what you view as a good W, a good mother, and a good person. I think these images may be what is limiting your responses to your H. They were not there to limit you in your affair. Does this make sense?"

I think so....if you mean being a good W, good mother, then having S with H sometimes felt dirty? Does this make any sense to anyone or have I lost my marbles completely? Don't get me wrong, S with H is MUCH better now then it was (funny after having 2 kids - LOL), but it's still not where we both want it to be. I have a hard time telling him what I want without feeling dirty. Why?

Sad and Confused.

Your story - your place is SOOO much like mine - you describe yourself with your OM and the relationship it sounds word for word like mine...it's eerie....even your sex with your husband (btw with recovery sex with my husband became fantastic again...but I haven't been a vixen again... but i feel dirty being agressive with him)

Dorry - Why is that? Why do you think we feel dirty being agressive with our Husbands? That makes no sense to me, at all.

S&C,

If I really knew the answer to this one, I would make millions selling the book to every H in the world, including myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I don't know HOW you can feel dirty doing something God intended for you to do with your H and something that you BOTH enjoy or would enjoy. Think about that. I am sure it is a family of origin, FOO, issue but perhaps a societal issue...good girls don't do that.

Actually some men have similar hang ups. But, the point is YOU ENJOYED it, yes I know it was with OM, but it was NOT the fact that it was OM (I realize you think it is), but I think it was the fact that you knew you were doing something wrong already so "why not go for it."

Here is something you really need to talk to your H about, and perhaps seek some counseling on. But, more importantly ask your H how HE would feel if you were more aggressive in the bedroom and did things you have NOT ALLOWED yourself to do. Here is the part that will really blow your mind. If you do these things with H, and you enjoy them, you will enjoy them even more because you won't have the guilt of the affair, but rather a very happy and appreciative H.

Sex within a marriage is not dirty I think you know that, but consider why you think otherwise. Trust me you are not unique with these thoughts, but if you can get beyond them and agree with your H what you both like, don't like, or won't or will try, then it is good.

One of the things that can be a PLUS when you tell your H about this, is that you have learned a few things about yourself and yes H. You have learned you truely do love him, you have learned that you would LIKE to be more adventuresome with HIM, and you would really like it to be with ONLY him. It will not ease the sting at first, but as time goes on and if you stay on message, you will find him opening up.

S&C from a male point of view, you have no idea what the potential is here.

God Bless,

JL

It because it never has been that way with my husband - sex...we made love - but never were all over each other like rabbits, etc...then over the years, sex became less and less and we grew used to that routine...and eventually even started to not enjoy sex it was such a routine right?

We would reject our husbands due to routine, and they would feel rejected, so when they had sex they were less interested in learning about us -and more interested in having sex to have sex, which in turn made us feel more like objects and less like vixens...

Eventually you probably thought you had no sex drive and when OM came along - you were SHOCKED you had one! Amazed - as both you and your husband were probably convinced something was wrong with you...whether it be young kids, etc.

and now you know your sex drive isn't dead - that you are alive, that you are a NORMAL woman...and all you want is to share that with your husband...but you see you haven't BEEN like that with him ever...and you are terrified he wont like that aobut you - and you feel dirty - cause it's not something you have ever been with him...and you feel worse as it's something you have been with OM...and it's almost SPOILED that for you as you dont want to be as you were with OM with your husband....

Am I getting close???

Sadly now - due to my husband having his own affair 7 months into our recovery he is dealing with some of his own issues and has no desire to have sex....we talked about it the other day....and here I am all randy like I have never been in 8 years!!! LOL

ALSO ALSO ALSO - since my husband and I have recovered - he does little things ALL day - you know that emotional foreplay...he is affectionate, loving, thinks of me - so I am all the more raring to go, while it wasn't like this in the past...it was more jump on me in the middle of the night while I am sleeping which made me feel more like an object...

Dorry,
Have your told your H how these little things affect you? Have you consider becoming a selfish lover? I know this is going to sound bad, but most men like women who are a bit selfish. Sort of "here is what I like, and here is what I want you to do."

The reason is as near as I can tell is that for men good sex is NOT about the climax. It is about the getting there but most men I know really get turned on when their partner is turned on. So if you direct him as to how to make YOU feel good, he will respond. In fact Dorry, you might just try the approach tonight is MY night and I want you to do to me what I want you to do. This is NOT about you, it is about me and you pleasing me.

That approach might just start some fires within your H. He may not want sex himself, but if you ask him to help YOU, it sort of puts him in the game whether he wants to or not.

Women just don't seem to understand how feedback really enhances the experience for men. It really does make it special. That is probably why women were told not to be aggressive or show interest in sex. I mean if you want to repress sex, then the fastest way to do that to a man is show no interest and give no feedback.

Given that we now have birth control the issue is NOT quite the same. People forget what birth control did. It meant that sex could be performed without fear of unwanted or needed pregnancies. However, the training of women still carries with it the issues of pregnancy and disease, which are not issues in most marriages any longer.

You can be aggressive. You can make it so that YOU and your H enjoy it, and the result is NOT pregnancy.

Finely, Dorry wouldn't it be cool to be something MORE than you have been before? I know women worry about this, but trust me if your H knows you like something you will get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It is why men love women to give them a list of things they would like for birthdays or Christmas. We WANT to buy you something you will like, but since we don't shop much we don't know what it would be. It is also why when given a list men will often buy most of what's on it. Heck, we WANT you to be happy so if one is good, why not two? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You are missing the point men really do want me to enjoy sex and be happy. It makes us happy and heck the sex is better as well. Not a bad deal is it?

Consider taking control of your sex life and telling your H what you need and how you need it done. You just might be surprised.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

it's been since new years...and before that it was here and there since his affair...before his affair it was FANTASTIC - after my affair, we had both come out of our shells and were averaging 5 times a week - and it was GOOD!

Then since he came home...not much and it's usually if he has had a drink or two.

Up to the other night I bugged him about it without pressure - joked about it - or asked, and he said he was tired, or stressed...

the other night I finally had the courage to tell him how I was feeling, and that I was sorry I had done the same to him for all those years, how I realize how unwanted he must have felt, and i said sorry again for getting us here, and he told me I dont have anything to be sorry about anymore. He said it isn't work or stress, that he has been having alot of emotional problems he has been trying to work through...i didn't push it as pushing to my husband is a huge LB....and left it with him knowing how I feel...

This was last week. He is very affectionate, loving, an amazing husband...he just doesn't seem to have a sex drive right now...I would be HAPPY to tell him what I want now (dirty or not dirty - I will have the courage) if I could get him to want sex right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />