Perhaps I'm too late, but just wanted to comment about scorched earth exposure versus "surgical" exposure - you've received advice to go both ways.

The truth is, IMHO, that no one can predict whether exposing to all at once or in pieces will be the best for any given case. I honestly don't think this can be predicted. Both ways have ample examples of success noted on this forum.

This is why I and others frequently suggest the expanding concentric circle approach: start with the smallest, inner circle - tell your spouse you know. Next, or if spousal exposure is moot, go for OP's spouse.

The next circle may be immediate family, "mature" children, etc.

Each circle likely includes more and more people - and you build up to scorched earth. In every case, exposure should be made to those who reasonably are influential to the WS. As the crowd grows, less influential people get included because it's unavoidable, e.g., exposure in a church.

At each expansion, give time for the WS to realize that more exposure has occurred. rare is the need, IMHO, to continue after "uncle."

Good luck and stand tall.

Mr. - That is a good point - I can't really just show up, but I can get close before I call. Thanks.

While I do still plan to do it today - I will admit that I am waffling a bit (probably natural).

Went to MC today and I just don't know if W is still in contact with OM. If she is not, I am worried exposure will make things worse.

But I am going to do it anyway.

Thanks.

WAT, no one has told him to take a scorched earth approach, but to expose to two key people, the OMW and the WW's mother.

I think folks should expose in the most effective manner possible for thier OWN situation, whether that be a "concentric circle" or a one shot list of key targets, whichever makes the most sense. The "concentric circle" would be ineffective in many cases, and the one shot exposure would not be neccessary in others. Each case has to be independently assessed.

I think that trying to adhere to a specific TACTIC, ie: concentric circles for example, rather than focusing on WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE FOR MY SITUATION is a big mistake, IMO.

For example, I have seen folks [the conflict avoider who is looking for the easier, softer way] absolutely neutralize their exposure leverage by using "concentric circles" by exposing to a MIL one week, a "friend" the next, a neighbor next month. That is a completely ineffective exposure, which could have been effective if it had been done in one fell swoop.

Sometimes there ARE NOT multiple circles, but just a very few KEY PEOPLE who need to be exposed to at ONE TIME in order to get the maximum impact. And if a newbie doesn't know any better, or is the typical CA we see on here every day, and breaks up that tiny circle, they have wasted that valuable weapon. And that is partly because the make up of a "circle" cannot be defined in an objective way that applies to ALL situations. There is not a standard definition to begin with and the cast of characters changes in each situation.

I strongly think that each case should focus on THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY rather than a TACTIC as each case is different.

19, you are doing the right thing. This will close off that avenue and enable you to faciliate the end of this contact. I will say a prayer for you, 19, you will do great!

I completely agree, Mel.

19 - why do you think contact is over?

WAT

I think contact may be over because I have no real evidence that it is not over - we do still see OM from time to time (church and kids school), but to my knowledge there has been no other contact. She also tells me there has been none.

On the other hand, I have a very bad feeling there has been and continues to be contact. And I do have some very weak evidence of that. And she has lied about it before.

So, that has led me to decide to tell OM's W and maybe my W's mother. I hope to do it today. It's a bad day schedule-wise, but I still hope to do it. It's driving me crazy.

I really think W thinks this is some little game she is playing. I am not going to play anymore.

Thanks.

I had similar feelings on E-day. Conquered them and went on to expose, and it was a big turning point. Please go ahead and expose today, you won't be sorry.

Stay strong mate. Do it and get it over with; you'll feel better.

The truth shall set you free, but first it will p*ss you off!

Thanks. I am going to do it - due to schedule, it will probably be Thursday, however.

My only concern is that if she really has had no contact, then this could come back to bite me. Of course, I do have a bad feeling that there has been contact and she told a friend on the phone "I have been behaving, but not behaving perfectly..." - that makes me think there is still some contact.

W also offered this morning to change churches - she has never offered or agreed to that before. Due to things I am involved in now, it would be hard for me to leave there now (and I've been going there 33 years). So, she may be bluffing, betting I won't leave. Plus, my ego kicks in and to ****** with OM, I'm not leaving. But I was pretty surprised she offered it.

W also told me this morning that she is so angry with me for how I have treated her for 15 years that she may not ever be able to get over it. She's told me that before. That is also why I am concerned. I believe her. Exposing could add to that.

But, in the end, I would rather be divorced than have her doing this behind my back. I told W that. That's why I am going to tell OM's W. To end it or be sure it's ended.

“It's a bad day schedule-wise...”

Mr. Numbers.

That’s just an excuse. There is no day a good day for exposing. Just like there is no affair a good affair for a marriage. Please call the OMW as soon as possible. I know it’s frightening but you will feel a lot better after the call.

Start there. What she says can help you determine whom else to expose to. The rule of thumb is the more the merrier but if WW is respecting NC and committing to the marriage then maybe exposing to OMW is enough.

Chances are you will get a partner in monitoring to assure NC is in place.

Good luck and be brave!

Her comments sound like fog talk. They most always say the same things.....

expose.

It is an excuse to a certain extent - I admit it. But, it's not as simple as it sounds. I really am not chickening out either -

I want to do it in person - not by phone. Mainly, so I can show her the evidence I have and let her listen to my taped call - which is the only real evidence I have. Otherwise, she may not believe me. She has to hear the calls.

I plan to drive to her office and then call her and immediately go in - so she can't talk to OM before.

I really can't do that today because of meetings etc. that I have and I need it to be early enough that she will still be there.

The other reason is that W and I saw MC this morning and had a long talk after. It seems to me it wouldn't be quite as crappy from that persepctive to do tomorrow as today.

Remember, if there really has been no contact, I think I am making a mistake in doing. I don't believe there has been no contact, so I am going to do it, I just want to do it in least offensive way possible just in case there has been no contact.

And I am hoping for a partner in monitoring in OM's W - that's another reason I am going to do it. Of course, she could kick him out too - especially if he's ever done this before....

Even IF there has been no recent contact OM's wife deserves to know.

WAT
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Never rebuke criticism from a fool.

coacheswife - What comments do you mean when you say they sound like fog talk?

I really have been pretty much a jerk to her for 15 years. I never had an A, but I admit I did not treat her like she deserved. Of course, she never made that very clear until after dday - but I probably should have more cognizant of what I was doing. Now, that's not an excuse for what she did, but it's true to a large extent.

So, since I cannot argue with that (because it really is true to a large extent), I don't really think that is fog talk. Do you? or was there something else?

Remember too, FWIW, I do believe there is a distinct possibilty that there really has been essentially no contact since Feb 20. But I don't believe it. If there hasn't been, would there still be fog? She has undoubtedly seen him since then (as recently as Sunday) - but not spoken to him - I was there.

WAT - I agree she deserves to know - and I am going to tell her. My only reluctance has been and is it could actually make my situation worse. I have my kids to think about first and I have to do what is best for them - even if it's not what is best for OM's W.

That being said, while I dread it, I think it is the best thing for me to do (maybe only thing) so I am going to do it (although it will be Thursday).

Thank you (and everyone else) for keeping to tell me to do it - I know it has to be done.

Do you want to know what I think when I read this? That she most DEFINITELY is still in the affair. And let me explain why. A WS typically needs to demonize her spouse in order to rationalize the affair. She does this by rewriting history with the BS starring as the evil demon who drove her to the affair. Your is engaging in this very type of reality shifting.

And what will change her attitude? THE END OF THE AFFAIR. Once the affair is really ended and she sees that the path is CUT OFF, she will begin withdrawal. Once the OM is gone, reality will go back to normal and you will no longer be the demon.

I think that is exactly what is going on here, 19. And the greatest weapon you have against the affair is exposure. Exposing provides the greatest chance you have to kill this affair and save your marriage. Not the other way around.

ML - I actually hope that you are right - even thought that means A is on-going (not sure what I mean by that...)

But, what about the fact that I actually agree with it to a certain extent? I think it's largely true.

Is it possible, however, that I think it is so true mainly because I have heard it from her for 2 mos now?

I really was a jerk to a large extent - that is true.

Thanks.

P.S. I am not waffling much - I still plan to do it - Thursday.

P.P.S. - while I do admit it, she never told me this before the A

And this is exactly WHY you should expose. For the sake of your children. Your children will benefit from this when exposure kills this affair and makes it possible for your marriage to recover.

19,

Are you still being a jerk?

If you are, then stop.

If you are not, then she should be able to forgive you and move forward -- but not until her affair is over and she stops seeing the OM.

A lot of people here will tell you that WS's rewrite history and make the BS's the bad guy in order to justify their affairs. That may very well be true.

But I'm here to tell you that EVEN IF YOU REALLY HAVE BEEN A JERK, there's hope for your marriage -- but not until her affair is over and she stops seeing the OM.

I was pretty close to hating my H when I had my affair. Over the previous six or so years, he had turned into a seething ball of negative energy -- complained about everything, snapped at our baby girls constantly, jealous of everything everyone else had, drank too much, used porn compuslively, etc, etc. Frankly, he was a jerk with a capital "J". And if he were here right now, he'd be the first to admit it.

HOWEVER -- none of that is unforgivable. He has forgiven me for my affair. How on earth could I hold a grudge against him for his past issues??

If you have told your wife that you are sorry for the way you treated her... and have demonstrated real change... she will forgive you for it all -- but not until her affair is over and she stops seeing OM. (Did I say that part already? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

Hang in there 19. You can do this.

--SC