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Forgot to add:
Your wife may push you to share every single detail of your conversation with OM's wife. I don't think you need to share this and you can just summarize it. Hopefully, OM's wife will follow through with maintaining your snooping techniques but be ready to be busted on them. Have back up copies of your recordings to insure WW doesn't go on a search and destroy mission.
I'm not certain so perhaps others can chime in:
Should 19 give a blow by blow of his conversation with OM's wife, conveniently leaving out some of it but giving the impression he's told her everything so that her anger won't be focused on demanding to know it all. WS's love to throw the hyprocrital logic back at the BS when they view the BS withholding secrets. It only adds to their rationalizations and justifications. Don't lie, just don't recall everything for her.
OR
Should 19 just tell WW it's not her business, give a small summary and tell her currently he can not and will not divulge any more of the conversation.
I personally lean towards the later; because it's better than inevitably being caught up in misrepresentaions and contradictions when the OM's wife tells a differing story to her husband (OM) which gets relayed to WW. Though that would confirm contact (almost like a sneaky test).
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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ML - His kid is actually his step-kid - the kid is OMW's kid. They have been friends since they were 4 and go to the same school. I am not sure how to deal with that one?
And don't get me wrong - I don't feel guilty at all - none. She made her bed and she can lie in it. That being said, I am concerned - not scared or any BS like that, but concerned about what her reaction will be. I don't really want to end up divorced (I don't think).
One way or another I want to put this behind me - I realize this could take years to resolve/work out and I am not sure I am willing to spend the time. If I didn't have kids, I wouldn't.
I actually heard the phone call again today for the first time since dday (listening with OMW). My feelings toward W right now are nothing but bad - I don't care if she does explode - it's her problem.
Maybe this is twisted, but I am looking forward to telling her. Then, when she talks to her friends about it it won't be a little game anymore - now someone (OMW) hates her for what she did - that will put some water on her little fire - she's a very guilty person anyway - or she used to be.
I finally did something proactive - not just threatending, not just reacting, not just snooping - I may regret it one day, but I don't right now.
I know some of this may not be the best reasoning for finally doing it, but I can't help it right now.
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ML - And I am not 100% sure there has been NC since 3/2 - it just does not look like it at this point - I really can't believe that is true, actually - but who knows -
My guard is up and I do think she needed to know. As mentioned earlier, I wanted to vomit when my W hugged her yesterday (Easter) - at least she could avoid her, don't you think?
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I finally did something proactive - not just threatending, not just reacting, not just snooping - I may regret it one day, but I don't right now. Stand tall. You did the right thing.
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Mr. - You know, W already knows everything I told OMW. There is really not that much to tell.
Only 2 exceptions to that actually: (a) I showed OMW the list W made of pros/cons to leaving me - since OM and OMW were on the list - as a con since he's married. W doesn't know I have this. I am sure she forgot she did it. (b) OMW knows I can read W's email - W doesn't know that.
So, W knows all of my snooping tactics - and OMW really doesn't know anything W doesn't except those 2 things.
I like your advice about giving her one chance to come clean and I will try it. W is a very smart woman, however, and I don't think she will fall for it - but I will try - great idea.
After that, I'll probably just tell W what I talked to OMW about - by the time I tell her, I won't remember the details anyway.
Also, I am hoping OMW can get different facts from OM when she confronts - so we can know what the real story is especially as far as physical contact on the night of the retreat - where this all started. Somehow, I don't believe it was really just a kiss on the cheek - don't think it was SF, but I can't believe they didn't at least make out.
Thanks.
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Bit - Thanks. I feel great right now. Probably won't later, but I do now. Thanks.
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Another detail - the last time I knew there was contact and confronted W she actually voluntarily confessed to other contact that I had no way of knowing about - calls from public phones.
When I heard that call again today, I realized that I could have easily told from that call that there had been other calls -
the point is, that is why W confessed about that - she was worried about that - that I could tell there had been other calls. I was so mad when I heard the call the first time that I missed it - I didn't miss it today.
Also, Mr. - I do have copies - although I need to copy the tapes. But I keep it all in my office - she can't get to it. It's not really that incriminating anyway - I don't really think it would help in court - but who knows.
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Hi there 19. I feel happy for you. At least I feel you more strong and active. So far it was good for you to expose, and I believe will be good for your marriage as well. I trully hope your W will wake up after this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Something a bit strange to me... OMW know's you can read your wife e-mail but your wife dont. Does OMW know's this? Will she keep it to her self? Can you trust OMW on this? Wish you al the best for the comming days. Hopefuly you'll be walking on the new path of true recovery soon. Lost
d-Day- jan2006
Me 38, WH, 36
Children-8 and 10
status: slow, slow, recovery...
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Lost - Thanks. I am not that worried about email - W rarely uses it anyway and I do think OMW will keep quiet about it. I have never found anything by email.
I do feel stronger, but I am less optimistic about recovery. I now know she has continued to lie - and I am not sure I can deal with that.
I am not sure I want to recover. I am thinking about talking to a lawyer today - just for advice - just to be sure I am at least setting myself up the best I can.
I hope you are doing better yourself. Didn't you say you were going to post and let us know what is going on with you?
Thanks
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Hi 193. I was wondering if you exposed or not. Glad to see that you did. Said a prayer for you and wife and family.
Glad you exposed so that the A is out in the open to OMW also. THese things thrive by secrets, though your W says it was over it being out in the open at least may help you and OMW verify that it is. Having exposed puts the truth out there. They (A) can only really be handled with honesty that the WS is in an addiction and the BS may want to know to help restore the M and ask WS to yield to steps to help heal form the addiction by being accountable and so forth. Also help BS to heal from the addiction by WS showing willingness to work through it by committing to steps toward recovery. I wish both couples, families the best and pray it all works out.
LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
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LLG - Thanks. I am not sure A is over. OMW and I are working together to determine that, but we can only do so much. I know W is still lying about at least one call - that happened on March 2 (which I guess is good). I don't know what else she is lying about.
OMW has not told OM yet. She plans to Friday night (one of them is out of town until then). So, W doesn't know either. Should be an interesting weekend.
Thanks.
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I hope it works out for you both and your Ss. Hope they will choose recovery for your Ms.
LLG=Living, Learning, Growing formerly reallyconcerned
Trying to stop fearing and start living
BS-35
WS-33
kids, yes
1 D-day 8/2003, 2nd D-day 1/2006
Current status:
Working in Plan A.
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19, ""Maybe this is twisted, but I am looking forward to telling her."" I am thinking do not tell her, but let OM tell her after he gets raked over the coals by OMW. I would like to be a fly on the wall during that conversation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Also, no telling her because she could warn OM that it is coming. IMHO k
CORDUROY PILLOWS ARE MAKING HEADLINES!!
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Whoa! Don't tell her!
Sorry I missed that.
Ditto krusht.
Do not tell your wife you squealed to OMW. But when she asks if you did, "Of course I told her. She deserved to know and it can only help to end it for sure. My goal remains the preservation of the family."
WAT
-------------------
Bleach your old coffee grounds and serve them to your Yankee guests as grits.
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krusht and WAT - I am absolutely not going to tell her until OMW confronts him.
I am planning to tell W after that - OMW has promised to tell me as soon as she tells OM.
I realize that it might be more effective not to, but a couple of points:
1. There is a distinct possibility that the EA is over and there has been NC since 3/2. Don't know for sure, but I don't know for sure that it hasn't. If it has ended, it would seem to me that it would make it worse if I don't tell W. She is going to be very pissed anyway.
2. When I tell her, I can give her a chance to fess up and tell me anything she hasn't told me - I do know some stuff that she doesn't know I know, but not much. I am hoping that I can bluff her into telling me more. If I let OM tell her, I will not have that chance and that may be the only chance I have to get her to tell me things I don't already know - if there is anything.
Does that make sense?
P.S. I would love to be a fly on the wall too - OMW doesn't really seem that upset, however. I am a little worried that OM is going to be able to convince her it was nothing ("just an EA") and that my W was the pursuer etc. Not much I can do about that I guess.
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Well it's obviously your call. Your logic is no worse than mine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - as long as you wait for the high sign from OMW. THAT'S the real important factor - don't allow OM to get tipped off before that. WAT ------------------- Earth Day recycling idea: Little paper circles from office hole-punchers can be tossed at newlywed bureaucrats.
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Hey gang, Now that 19 has exposed to OMW... I'm thinkin' he could use some guidance on the rest of plan A. Here's a post from him from another thread... anyone want to take a stab at it? (19, Please excuse me for "talking about you like you're not in the room". But I'm just concerned that my feedback on your post was woefully inadequate) SC - OK -
1. Bank - I can't say that I really know what her top EN's are - but what I think she got from OM was that he really thought she was fun, interesting, smart etc. - she said he "lit up" when she was around and he thought she "hung the moon".
So, I am trying to act like that when I am around her. It's not that hard because I actually do feel that way - I just never acted like it.
I am also making a lot of effort to spend more alone time with her. Have been for the past couple of months.
I compliment her a lot and give verbal and physical affection (I've always done that).
One of her main EN's she says, unfortunately, is privacy. As you can imagine, that goes over real well right now. I just ignore it.
Mainly, I am trying to never act frustrated, silent or disappointed - even when I feel that way that's what I did before - that's a big LB for her now - better to yell and scream than do that .... I am doing much better in this regard even though I really want to act that way - didn't work before, it won't work now.
2. LB's - the main one is the one I just mentioned. Also, occasionally something comes up related to EA and I don't respond nicely. I think that is the biggest - but I am not sure.
3. When she brings up past - Next time I will tell her she is right, I probably don't and can't understand - then I'll ask her to try to help me understand better - then I'll tell her I can't change the past, but I am not going to be like that anymore.
And then I tell her she can take it or leave (just joking about that part, although I would like to say that and more).
4. Exposure - thanks. Obviously, I have talked about this ad nauseam. I know what I need to do.
Thanks.
"I require more from my spouse than behaving well in order to avoid pain." (guess who)
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SC - Thanks. I thought your feedback was great - don't sell yourself short.
I would, of course, appreciate comments and feedback from anyone else too.
Thanks.
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19, the only thing you need to be concerned about right now is damage control and cleaning up the after effects of this affair. THEN, you can start working on recovery. By that, I mean preparing yourself for the blow up by having talking points ready and not allowing her to bait you into a fight or "guilt" you for busting her. If you allow her to make you feel guilty for busting her, she will use that as a weapon against you. So beware of that. It is a common diversion tactic. Secondly, it is very important that you are fully prepared to take steps to seperate them once and for all. That means no more contact at church and no more socialization with the kids. That is the LEAST she can do if you are willing to stay with her. This is not a step that you can afford to cut corners with, lest you will be dealing with this affair for the next 10 years. [and Easter hugs, how cute] Contact MUST END. For the sake of your marriage, for the sake of your children. You may even have to tell your children the truth. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they already know, though, they usually do. The bottom line is that your families cannot socialize ANY MORE, that is a consequence of her affair that has to be faced. Perhaps she should explain it to the kids herself. You won't be able to meet her needs until she goes through withdrawal, so just do your best and most especially avoid lovebusters. You are doing great; the fact that you did this makes things so much more hopeful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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ML - Thanks. I really think she has already gone through withdrawal - or she is not going to - maybe I am being naive. She has told me on more than one occasion that it's not as big a deal as I am making it out to be ... her feelings toward OM that is - I don't believe that, but she's the only one who really knows. It's not a logical attraction at all.
Our kids go to a very small school - about 45 kids in the grade they are in. There is little or no contact between OM and W related to kids. It's usually W and OMW. Don't know what it will be now since I assume OMW will want no contact with W - I can't imagine she would. I don't know how to handle this aspect of it. They have been friends since they were 4.
One concern I have is that OM will be able to downplay this to OMW. On the one call I taped which has anything on it, he backed off when he knew I found out - told my W she needed to work on her marriage without him in the picture. Also, after that it was almost always my W calling him - not vice versa - I can easily see him painting W as pursuer etc. - may be true, but it takes 2 to tango. What do you think? Of course her last husband had full blown A - she's been through this before - she's not stupid.
Finally, what talking points did you have in mind - there will be no guilt. If no other reason, I now know another lie - and she even lied about it again today.
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