This is a lie, 19. She is contacting the OM for one reason and one reason only, she WANTS TO. To say that she does it because of an ultimatum is profoundly childish, deceitful and disrespectful.

Something needs to be pointed out about your C, though. Has it ocurred to you that some strangers on the internet KNEW that your W was still contacting the OM but your C DID NOT? That should tell you how capable this C is in matters of infidelity.

Good job on getting the truth out of her. I do think you should set a firm boundary about what you will do if contact continues, 19. I would tell her - calmly - with no lovebusters, that all contact must end in order for your marriage to recover. ALL CONTACT.

If you stay firm in this boundary, it will give OMW the courage to stay firm also. And I would show OMW what Dr Harley says about ending contact. He is ADAMANT about it.

It doesn't matter if she calls it a baloney sandwich or a "friendship;" it is destroying your marriage and the OM's marriage and must stop. NOW.

The first step in recovery in to send a no contact letter to the OM that is written together and sent by you. [sample below]

However, I suspect she will BALK at this step because she is not done with her affair. Your lovebusting has given her the justification she needs to continue. This is why avoiding lovebusters at this point is so critical.

But you do need to plant the seeds NOW and convey the message that you a) expect the nc letter to be sent and b) will not settle for anything less than TOTAL no contact. She must be made to understand this, 19, because you will end up divorced if you try to cut this corner. Some things are negotiable, THIS IS NOT.

I would expose the affair to your MIL as soon as you can get in touch with her. Tell her about the affair, tell her that W calls it a "friendship" but that you have evidence to the contrary. Tell her you love her and want to save your marriage. Ask for her help and influence.

I would also tell your kids. This affair very much effects your kids, 19, and they have a right to know what is happening. They may have to change churches, drop friends and they need to know that Mr.OM is a bad man who is to be avoided. They DESERVE to know why these changes must take place. Kids can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. I am also concerned that she could be use the kids as a pretext to meet up with the OM if they don't know.

If they KNOW what she is doing, she won't be able to fool them. They may also have seen some things that make them suspect an affair already and are scratching their heads. This is VERY COMMON, 19.

And lastly, you must call a TRUCE with her if you hope to save your marriage. Let her know how sorry you are that you lambasted her. Tell her you love her and want to save this marriage but are very disappointed. This DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU APPEASE HER or relax your boundaries, 19. Plan A does not stand for appeasement.

Plan A is two parts: kill the affair and attract her back by meeting her needs. Attracting her back does not mean giving into her destructive demands.

Dr. Harley?s (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she?s been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

Please tell me you didn't go to that church today?

ML - Thanks. And thank you again very much for getting me to tell OMW. If you hadn't kept on me about it, I don't think I would have done it.

You are right - she has been contacting him because she wants to. (and I love the baloney sandwich comment).

I guess I will have to tell her I am sorry for lambasting her - but I am really not sorry. I know I shouldn't have done that, but when she told me she went to his office and took him cookies, that was all I could take.

That may be all I can take in general.

Or I guess I have to go back to Plan A.

Of course, your response is assuming I don't just want to get out right now. I am not so sure I don't. I don't think I will ever be able to believe her again - I really don't.

I am absolutely going to get her to write a NC letter ASAP. She may balk, but she might do it anyway. Especially since OMW knows. W is worried about that. She told me this morning that OMW might tell all the parents in the kids grade at school. I didn't tell her I thought that would be funny, but I do. I can't imaagine OMW would do that.

W said it might affect our kids - the fact that I told OMW. I didn't say much (trying not to LB) but I wanted to say, "me telling OMW didn't do squat - you did this, not me, I just told someone what you did" She also said more than once that she didn't think it was fair that I told OMW. What a joke. OMW wanted to know.

Anyway, I am just going on now about nothing so I will stop. I guess I know some specific things I need to do, I am just not sure what I need to do in general. At some point the plug needs to be pulled - I am just not sure when.

Thanks.

I didn't go - but W did with the kids. I can imagine what you are going to say about that ..... so go ahead and let me have it.

This will be the first time she has gone without me since dday. I just decided today I didn't *&^%$#@ care.

I am 99% sure that OM and OMW are not there today, anyway.

The whole church thing is a big mess. I have commitments there through the end of the year that are very hard for me to get out of. Plus, my mother goes there and has for her entire life.

I am hoping OM and OMW will change churches. They are connected to it too, but not as much as we are. If not, then I think we will leave, even though it will be hard.

1. Are you going to tell MIL?

2. Are you going to tell your kids?

3. Is this going to be the last week your family goes to that church again until you know that OM and OMW no longer go there?

Or 4. Are you going to sit on this again, making all kind of excuses for not doing the right thing, hoping that things are better than they are or that they will magically change?

UVA - Thanks. (and thanks for telling me what you really think - I deserve it).

I don't know what I am going to do at this point.

Telling MIL would really piss off W. No doubt about it.

I don't really want to tell my kids.

Church is hard since we both have obligations there. I am going to talk to OMW tomorrow and discuss it.

I am inclined to sit on it for a little while - at least until I talk to OMW tomorrow. The first thing I need to do is see if OM told OMW anything I don't know.

I don't know if this makes it better or worse, but it does appear to me that W has been pursuing OM (not vice versa). She calls him, goes to see him etc. I have a feeling that he wants it to end - escpecially now that OMW knows.

Thanks.

19, you MUST tell her that YES, your affair has very much effected our kids. They can no longer play with the OM's children and must be told about the affair. They may not be able to go back to our church. So, HE11 YES it has effected your kids! That is the understatement of the year. Affairs have WIDESPREAD effect on everyone in the family. As you can see!


This just amazes me to no end. She is going along as if nothing has happened. She does not COMPREHEND the damage around her for some reason.

19, you have to expose this affair, to your kids, your MIL and your mother. They must understand why you can't go to church there anymore as long as the OM attends. The kids must understand why they can never associate with these people again. You simply CANNOT afford to keep this secret for your W. To do so only endangers your family and enables the affair.

I think you are making a big mistake by not putting your foot down NOW about the church. It enables your wife to go on her merry way and ignore the damage in her wake. She should not be going to that church until she KNOWS the OM is no longer there. She should not be going ANYWHERE where he might be. But that will never happen until you expose her further and let her know that nothing short of absolute NO CONTACT will suffice.


It is not supposed to make her HAPPY, but is intended to apply pressure for her to end her affair. Exposure is so effective because it allows the affairee to see themselves through the eyes of others. It is a REALITY CHECK, something that your W sorely needs.

I don't mean to defend W, but she had to go because she teaches sunday school (they alternate and this was her day).

And you are right, she doesn't seem to comprehend the damage at all - I can't figure that out either. Is it fog?

She may be coming around - the message I gave was pretty clear last night.

She also had the nerve to tell me this would never have happened if I had treated her better for the past 15 years.

I vote for exposing to the pastor and elders, as well. They can talk to both parties involved, and will not want an affair going on right in the pews in front of them.

Also there's nothing quite so scary as your pastor knowing you have done a Bad Thing, and this will make your WW very uncomfortable. At this stage, uncomfortable is good.

19, please lay out the plan here for her. She does not understand the ramifications of her affair because her affair has been protected - and HIDDEN. She didn't have to go to church today at all. She SHOULDN'T be going to church.

Explain to her that your marriage cannot EVER recover unless all contact is ended. The affair takes all precedence over everything else.

When affairs are exposed, the affairee cannot hide from reality and PRETEND as easily as your wife. She will likely continue to minimize the affair and go on as usual unless you create some major conflict here and continue to interfere with the affair.

Didn't you tell me that your pastor KNOWS about this affair? Why would she still be teaching SS if she is having an affair? WOW


There is no excuse - EVER - for having an affair. You are 50% responsible for the state of the marrisge, and she is 50% responsible. She is, however, 100% responsible for her affair.

Not So - Thanks.

The Pastor (actually a rector in our case) has known since the beginning of all this - W and I met with him 2 days after dday - I made her get out of the small group where this started and we had to talk to rector to do that.

He was a little helpful, but he bought her BS hook, line and sinker - sort of like I did - that they were just friends etc.

Have to think about the elders (actually vestry in our case) - especially since I am one.

ML -

It's a pretty liberal church (a lot more liberal than I am - that's one reason I actually wouldn't mind leaving)

- also, the rector didn't think it was that big a deal - he believed her BS - thought it was good that it never got to PA etc. Of course, he doesn't know that it continued for almost 3 mos. after he knew about it.

You are just getting started with exposure.

Expose to her family and to the church.

A church is the VERY BEST setting for exposure, bar none. It's against the rules there, you can supposedly find redemption, and seek foregiveness - all under the same roof. What better place could there be?

You and OMW should do this together if possible. That ought to neuter any hook line and sinker swallowing by the pastor.

You don't do this and I'll be concluding you don't want to save your marriage afterall.

WAT

You are so afraid of losing what you have already lost, a faithful loving wife. Your wife right now is a lying, cheating WW. Is that what you are afraid of losing?

I think your problem is a fundamental one: you need to MAN UP. You are always scared, rationalizing everything, when the situation often asks you to be a MAN (or politically correct, to be a STRONG PERSON). I think you need to look deep inside yourself and ask why you do not think that you deserve to be treated with respect, and why you refuse to act in a way that shows that you respect yourself, i.e., acting to protect yourself.

Women do not respect men they can walk over. And you are not sending a definitive signal to your WW that she should respect you. You allow her to continue disrespecting you, while making a bunch of ultimatums that everyone knows you are not willing to follow through on. What kind of man allows his wife to continue attend the same church that OM goes to(Sunday school teacher or not)?

I notice that you are very good at rationalizing. 19, I think you need to grow some SPINE, if not for yourself, do it for your CHILDREN.

I know I sound harsh, but I come in peace. Like everyone else here, I just want you to give yourself the best chance of saving your M, protecting your Children, and respecting your integrity as a person.

Hello 19.

I haven't got any advise <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But I wish you luck with exposure to anyone you believe will make the difference so that your W can finally wake up.

You seam to be on the right way to full NC if you expose. I believe it's a very good step.

Keep strong and don't forget all you told me about saving the marriage and family.

Edited to ask you How old are your kids?

19,
Sorry this crap just keeps getting deeper for you, but I think you knew in your gut that W was still contacting OM...hopefully (and I think it's very likely) OM will cut your W off once he finds out his W knows what they've been up to..
Your W seems to be pretty deep into denial about what she is doing to you and your marriage by continuing to contact OM after promising not to. I really don't think she's thought through the ramifications of her actions...and it's so very disrespectful to you and your marriage that she has been sneaking around making him cookies, etc..yuck...kind of hard to believe that she would keep pursuing him if there has been no PA at all, or at least the possibility of one...didn't she tell you that he kissed her on the cheek once? I've found that when there is a revealation like that from a WS (kiss on the cheek) you can pretty much bet that is maybe 25% of the truth...they almost never give the whole truth unless they are busted clean

I understand that you dont' even know if you want to do Plan A or any other plan at this point, just don't make any decisions when your fresh in the hurt of these new discoveries k? Your feelings may change and if you do decide you want to save your M, it will be better for you if you try to keep the LB's to a minimum...she's already rationalizing her actions by putting all the blame on you...sounds like she needs to grow up and realize that she's an adult and in control of her own actions...I think exposing to her mother may help this come about...IMHO your kids are too young to be laying something like this at their feet though, of course it's your choice to do this or not..

Can't wait to hear what OMW has to say...hopefully it's that they are quitting that church so that you and your family won't have to...

Thanks to all of you.

Here's a question: Almost everyone said W would be furious when she found out I told OMW. I even thought she would be. Well, that was not the reaction I got from her at all. She wasn't mad. In fact, I really think her reaction was much more one of shame and embarrasment (embarrasment more than shame). She thinks it was unnecessary, blah blah blah, but she never got mad - even when I was extremely mad.

Anyone have any thoughts on why that is? It was not what I was expecting.

19, usually they are furious; sometimes they are not. It depends on their personality mostly. But we wanted to prepare you for the WORST, because most BS' find it very upsetting when their WS gets angry. I don't think it means anything other than a reflection of her personality.

WAT - Some of her family knows already. In fact, there is really only one person left to tell - her mother. As far as church, either my family or OM's family will be leaving ASAP.

Here's a Q: who should leave? The way all this came down, I honestly believe that OM started it, then backed off very quickly when I found out and then W basically pursued him.

They are both at fault - should OMW and I flip a coin?

UVA - I know your harshness is with good intent and I apprecite it. If people like you had not been harsh earlier, I wouldn't have exposed and I am very glad I did. I am not really a wus at all, I just don't know the right things to do in all this and the stakes are pretty high.

Church will be taken care of one way or another very soon. I don't want to tell my kids about this. I don't see what good that does and they don't need that to worry about.

I don't really think she has walked all over me at all. She did continue to sneak around, but I was doing everything I could to catch her - what should I do, leave?

I am just not sure what you mean by "manning up" - other than telling a few more people, what can I really do, other than getting a D?

lost_willow - my kids are 6, 12 and 15. I won't forget what I said -

this_hurts - I do think OM will cut her off.I think he already had - sort of. By that, I mean he was not calling her - it was her calling him. I honestly believe he got real uptight about it all once he knew I knew and he backed off. It will be interesting to see what OMW says. One thing W told me is that the last time she talked to OM about 12 days ago, she told him she wasn't going to call him anymore. Now, I don't believe a word she says, but it will be interesting to see if OM told OMW the same thing.

I don't know about the PA part - I really don't think that has happened based on all I know. Interesting to hear what OMW says about that too.

I am trying to keep LB's to a minimum. I guess I do want it to work - not today really, but I know in the long run I will. So I am going to try to regroup and get back on Plan A.