Habiba, if nothing else, continue posting to get support from ones who care. Don't allow ML, or other bitter posters, to discourage you from slowly making positive changes. If you leave, you may not continue to make progress. I'm here for ya!

sfjaj, stop aiding and abetting her with inappropriate sympathy and support her in facing the truth of what she has done so she can get into recovery. Your posts are very much out of line and only serve to IMPEDE HER RECOVERY. They reflect badly on where YOU ARE in recovery and help no one.

And NO, you are not her "friend." If you were, you would be helping her face the horrible truth of what she has done, instead of PRETENDING it wasn't what it was. You are an ENABLER. You are very new to this and I would suggest you learn to HELP YOURSELF before you presume to help others.

ooooh my favorite word again..
B I T T E R <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

yes this an example of good marriage building...

see how much good this does...

little afraid to post anything round here.......
might get called out by the bitter police....

I thought we were over this CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
guess not

ARK

Yes, here we go again. It's the last refuge of those who can't make an intelligent argument because they know the facts won't serve them. Usually spoken by those of the fogged out culture. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

sfjaj,

I have been observing from the sidelines and not saying much about all the spitefulness you have shown Melody and other BSes who have given Habiba such EXCELLENT advice.

But, now it is time to let you know a few things.

Melody is not a bitter BS. She DOES care about WSes who come here looking for help, or she wouldn't bother to post to them.

She is a very busy lady who still manages to find time to try to HELP people. Yes, she is blunt and matter-of-fact, but she simply doesn't have the time to sit around and think up a bunch of psyco-babbling posts to molly-coddle a WS into doing what MUST be done to save his/her marriage.

She is just as hard on fog-bound BSes as she is on WSes. I know, because I have been on the receiving end of her 2x4s, along with Ark's 2x4s.

And, you know something? While I may have initially been a little aghast at receiving a 2x4, those same 2x4s are EXACTLY what made me THINK about some of the things I was doing...and led me to change MYSELF for the better.

And, you seem to still be under the impression that what a WS wants is all that matters. Consider this: As long as a WS is still continuing an affair, he/she is WASTING the lives of others...the ones who TRULY love him/her. A WS NEEDS to feel shame and remorse for what he/she has done, which is destroying the lives of others for their own selfish purposes.

Habiba is still having an affair with her step-FiL, who has shown himself to be a man without honor...a man who has admitted that he doesn't want to leave her MiL for her. She doesn't realize that he USED her for his own sexual pleasure. This doesn't mean that she is a victim...because she CHOSE to have an affair with this creep.

Some people choose to make themselves into victims. They need to get over themselves.

As long as people molly-coddle people like you and Habiba, y'all will continue to volunteer for victimhood, instead of facing up to your responsibilities and repairing the havoc you have wrought in your families' lives.

Habiba is getting EXCELLENT advice on ending the affair and rebuilding her marriage from BOTH former wayward spouses, as well as former betrayed spouses. Kinder and gentler is not always effective, and most times just feeds into that victim mentality and helplessness that so many waywards seem to feel.

We do care about Habiba, and we also care about YOU! The problem is that you want people to feel sorry for you because you screwed another man and screwed up your H's life, as well as the start of the life of your OC (because he should have been your H's child!). All your shilly-shallying about people being "mean" is not doing a darned thing to help you recover your marriage. You are VERY lucky that your H wants to recover the marriage...not the other way around. Well, get over yourself and get with the MB program.

End of 2x4. Now if you can quit misdirecting the threads into WS Political Correctness and interfering with the EXCELLENT marriagebuilding advice that is being given, can we PLEASE get on with the business of helping new WSes?

Lady Clueless: I never advocated that she continue the A...and, by the way, clubbing someone over the head doesn't work. Perhaps showing first that you do care and then helping to guide them along, will. So, say what you will about me, (I'm strong) but ML is most definitely angry and bitter. Other BS have been quite helpful to me so bitterness and other "crap" (as per ark) doesn't help and hinders progress

sfjaj, the problem is that YOU DON"T KNOW what works. You are not recovered yourself. You cannot help other people until you help yourself. You are hostile to the truth YOURSELF, and resent anyone even STATING A TRUE FACT about an affair. That is the sign of a very unrecovered, FOGGED OUT mind, my friend. You do not help anyone by helping them avoid the harsh TRUTH about their acts.

You are like a drunk who shows up at the AA meeting who commences to tell the sober ones how to do it. Why not learn to HEAL YOURSELF first?

sfjaj, I know you don't understand the process of recovery, but Habiba will never recover unless she takes OWNERSHIP of what she has done and STOPS HER AFFAIR and is TRUTHFUL. You are NOT HELPING her do that by affording her inappropriate sympathy when she needs help and guidance in facing the truth.

Admitting the truth and stopping the affair is the first step in recovery. She doesn't need you to ENABLE her by ignoring or minimizing the damage she has caused her family.

Being a friend to someone does not entail helping them hide from hard truths, sfjaj. Anyone can blather on with empty nice words [her poor "self esteem"] but a person who truly cares will take a risk and tell her the truth. If folks acted like you do in AA, NO ONE would ever get sober.

As they say in AA, take the cotton out of your EARS and put it in your mouth, maybe you will learn something.

Habiba, some day you will come out of this deep fog of denial you have been living in, and will realize the truth yourself. Unless you are just constitutionally incapable of being honest with yourself, which I sincerely doubt.

The folks who are telling you what you want to hear are not your friends. They are enablers to your delusion and are only fueling your denial and preventing your recovery. They are telling you what you want to hear because they don't care and don't want to risk your wrath. Some are fogged out themselves. Its much easier to just tell you what you want to hear than take a risk for you.

Please know that folks here do care, and there are many experienced folks like dorry and lovingalways who care enough to tell you what you NEED to hear to get to recovery, rather than what you WANT to hear.

Like we say in AA, STICK WITH THE WINNERS. We are here to support you, not with empty nice words to make you feel good about being bad, but with TRUE SUPPORT that can lead to real recovery. We will support you in being GOOD, not in being BAD.

Lady Clueless ~ EXCELLENT POST.

sfjaj,

Not only have you gotten wonderful advice from BS's, you have gotten wonderful advice from FWS's like Mrs. W.

I have been on both sides of this thing, and it's cr*ppy being on either side. You know why? Because it CHANGES YOUR LIFE FOREVER... one decision... made by ONE PERSON in the marriage... and life as you know is changed FOREVER.

I have been called an enabler on this site. I always try to be compassionate and I'm not one to hit anyone upside the head with a 2x4... but there is a limit to how much compassion I will show to someone who is purposefully continuing on a path that will destroy not only thier own life but clear the way for someone else to do the same.

I am sick about habiba's situation... utterly and completely sick in my heart... for her H, for her MiL... and yes, for her, too, because she's here trying to get help.

I feel the same way about you, sfjaj... you're HERE... you've reached out... do you really, honestly *want* the support that's being offered you? Because it seems to me that you slap the hands of those who are reaching out the furtherest to you.

Habiba and sfjaj, I've been where you both are, I know what it's like to go through withdrawl. I was so filled with remorse for my actions, and what they did to my (then)H and children (not to mention myself) that I wanted to die. Literally. I was in a fog when I got here, and yes, I said some dum-a$$ stuff, but... I was wise enough to realize that I was at a site for MARRIAGE BUILDING after infidelity... and I always strived to treat everyone (especially those who bonked my head with those 2x4's) respectfully. And while I reached out to other WS's for support (not WHILE the affair was still going on - but after)...

...My greatest lessons ALWAYS came from the BS's... and in some ways, even all these years later... still do.

sigh

sfjaj...

Melody Lane is not angry or bitter. She definately has a directness that alot of people dont have. She doesn't beat around the bush. Some people can take it - some people can't.

Here's where I am worried. You are SOOOOO defensive about ML that I think you are missing what she is saying.

Here is my observation as a FWW who has been there, been defensive...

I may be completely wrong too - but I am going to take a jab it only based of the feelings I once had..and my fears.

Right now - you know what you did was wrong...you feel guilty and are horrified...but if someone shows you sympathy and compassion, you dont feel so bad, you dont feel so alone...it makes you feel that what you did wasn't so bad...and feeling that way is a breath of fresh air...cause you hurt all the time otherwise. If someone can't reach out and sympathize...then you get defensive, as you have been defensive for years...and during your affair. You have learned how to be defensive in your marriage....think about how you communicate with your husband...if he complains - you get defensive, if he insuiates a mistake - I bet you get defensive....and I bet he gets defensive back....if you ask for a change, he sees it as nagging and gets defensive. I bet you have felt pretty alone for awhile...

ML is not bitter - she is frustrated with you, as many others are...she is more blunt about it - she gets right to the point, and her points are good.

SHe is trying to show you you can't brush off what you or habiba did, or what I did...there is no sympathy for it.

I WILL not say - wow you had it tough, I see why you had an affair, oh the pain yuo are going through, so sad...why? cause it's what I wanted to hear too...but hearing that does NOT result in a change...it does NOT result in solving the problem....no matter WHO and HOW you do things.

So instead of just either A, ignoring ML, or B, listening to what she is saying, even if it offends you...you are C - BEING DEFENSIVE, trying to make a point, trying to reach out to other people...when all you are doing is honestly - keeping others from getitng the point.

You have to find a way to face the fear and accept there is no excuse for what you have done, what I have done...and instead of being defensive all the time, take a deep look at yourself. You wont like what you see right now, and that will be the most painful part...but looking will start the road to liking what you see again.

If you try to tell me you lke what you see right now?? I wont believe you. Because the affair gives you a false sense of security, a false sense of confidence. Heck I felt the most confident I had my whole life in the affair. But it wasn't TRUE confidence... I would say trust me on that but I doubt you will as you only want to hear and do things your way...I get that...its makes sense to your way...it's easier your way.

I guess ML is saying- you do it your way - you aren't saving your marriage....you are taking the easy way out and this could happen again, your marriage may never change.

So let me ask you this SFJAJ.... WHAT DO YOU WANT??? really?

sfjaj...

your advice in my opinion to habiba is way way off base...

your own healing is the most important thing..

this is by far NOT the most important thing..right now where things stand for this situation...

the most important thing IS NO MORE PHYSICAL CONTACT...

See WS healing ...BS healing...will come much much later down the road......
it's impossible now...especially given the fact the affair is still ongoing as we speak...

how can you heal which is still being broken...?


You may need to take a bit of separate time right now to figure out exactly what you want.

see in this case it I can not fathom how advising someone to seperate right now and abandond the BS and children..
or even worse take the children from the BS will work..

it will cause more stress, damage, and most importantly chaos for the children....

it is harder to re-build once a spouse is out of the home...

how sfjaj? does an active WS suddenly make GOOD decisions for the sake of the children...when it is their decisions that put the children in direct chaos and danger...

how does this work...
bad decision after bad decision...and suddenly...good decisions.....??

illogical at best....

compassion is one thing
bad advice is another...

and I read the habib post..no where does ML call anyone a name...


unlike you who starts this insane post...after giving bad marriage building advice....
accusing melody lane of not helping....

it's very bad advice you gave...
WHAT an active WS wants in the middle of being a WS is NOT the most important thing...
not by a long shot....

I know in this world we want to appease everyone
and feel everydone deserves what they want...
but not always is that a healthy route by any means...
and not when the affair continues...!!!!!

ARK^^

Thanks dorry and LadyClueless, I do recognize the "bitterness" accusation for what it is, defensiveness. Appreciate your defense, my friends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope we can get on with the business of helping Habiba with TRUE SUPPORT so I am most glad to see y'all here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

sfjaj...

Your above statements about ML and Ark are absolutely, positively LAUGHABLE...TRUST ME, you have NO CLUE how many people that they have helped here...

You should read some of Ark's incredible and noteworthy posts...you just have no idea what a blessing she is around here...I will pull the one that she penned about calling a BS bitter(WHICH, if nothing else, is MAJOR RUDE from a WS!!!)...what she says is so very true...We are all blessed by her presence here...

As for Melody being "angry" and "bitter"...NOTHING could be further from the truth...if you only knew how much she does care...or how many stars that God himself will place in her crown one day because of all of the people that she has helped here, and I'm certain other places too...What you also don't understand is how much that it takes out of you to help others in the way that she does-emotionally draining is an understatement...you really just don't get it...ML is an ANGEL here...NOTHING that you can say will make that less true...

sfjaj...Do you actually want help here? Please be honest, if not with us, with yourself...You want all this "PC" help it seems...You've come to the wrong place...we will NOT tell you what you want to hear, doing that, will NOT help you...I thought perhaps that you had changed directions and were ready to look inside yourself and see what needs to be adjusted...I *thought* you were making progress...and then, he we go again...PLEASE help yourself by looking at you...stop concerning yourself with the problems of others...how can you help others to walk, when you have yet to learn how to crawl, much less stand? That doesn't make sense...I'm sure you must agree...

I also noticed that you had bumped your thread for sadandconfused67...Could you please go back and read that thread from the point where I posted to you about what Dr.Harley says about sex...etc...After reading that, and all the others after on that thread...I would like to hear your thoughts as they pertain to your situation...we can go from there...

Mrs. Wondering


P.S. On a personal note, from me to you...PLEASE STOP "post stalking" Melody...you are DRIVING ME MAD!!! She IS helping, you are NOT...and, sfjaj, that is a FACT...it is very clear to everyone here, but you...seriously...

sfjaj,

"Lady Clueless: I never advocated that she continue the A...and, by the way, clubbing someone over the head doesn't work. Perhaps showing first that you do care and then helping to guide them along, will. So, say what you will about me, (I'm strong) but ML is most definitely angry and bitter. Other BS have been quite helpful to me so bitterness and other "crap" (as per ark) doesn't help and hinders progress"

How would you feel about using this reaction you have in yourself as an exercise for you? I learned this in that same book I posted about to you, how I owned my cruelty.

If you're interested, we could start our own thread. Growth comes from everywhere--adversity, dark places, sorrow, joy, fulfillment and deprivation...sneaky as mushrooms and huge as the sky...all sizes inbetween. Sometimes you have to hunt it, turning over rocks in your way. Other times, it falls on your head...

Glad you're here and you are who you are...

LA

Mrs. Wondering, your last post ALMOST made me laugh because, it seems to me, that ML "stalks" me; she responds to each and every post. So, your accusations are flying the wrong way. Actually, WAT was one of the first ones to call me on the carpet regarding my affair. He stated things bluntly, and I responded. The difference between ML and WAT is that WAT wasn't filled with hatred and name calling in his response.

LA, that would be a good idea.

sfjaj, now you know I have never called you a name, you don't help your case by being overly dramatic and making things up. You are no victim.

I am just suggesting that you fix yourself first, THEN worry about fixing others, sfjaj. Instead of spending all your time peppering this board with very bad advice, why not use that energy to try and LEARN something while you are here? The blind cannot lead the blind.

ML, now I am laughing! It is you who dispenses bad advice

Ok, sfjaj...here is how I see it...again, I realize that you are free to disagree with me...

I continually see you acting as an enabler to new WS/FWS here, and giving advice in direct opposition to that put forth by the owners of this site...ML, has been here for a very long time, and sees what harm that enabling others can do...she fears that you will hinder progress in them...therefore your actions force hers...Much like our actions as WSes force BS actions...can you see this?

Now, your interaction with WAT differs in that it has been on your own thread, regarding YOU...I can almost guarantee you that if you go onto a thread where he is advising and offer advice that hinders rather than helps, you will quickly find yourself on the receiving end of his own brand of wrath...and rightfully so...try it and see...and calling him bitter? Oh WOW, well, suffice it to say, just don't do that-THAT, would not be pretty, you dig?

Again, I ask you, what's going on in your life right now? I encourage you to post on the thread that you started for FWSes...the one where I saw you starting to make progress...reach out...ask LA to post to you there, she would be great for you, *if* you are ready to face what's inside of you...what do you say, sfjaj?

Mrs. Wondering

sfjaj, fix YOURSELF and then maybe you can help others.